finallyunderstand

I have many 'scary' memories, but I just remembered this 'head scratcher'.

I was helping set up for a limb meeting in the early 80's, and overheard some corps woman berating herself because of a rainstorm. She seemed genuinely perplexed why her 'believing' hadn't prevented the rain.

Not long after an area of the state was hit with a major storm, that caused some flooding and damage. The branch leader there was publicly boiled in oil by the limb leader at a twig coord meeting . The limb leader went on about how the branch leader was 'responsible' for that part of the state, and if he couldn't take care of his area, then maybe it was time for a change.

I just sat there in wonder. We're supposed to control the weather now? I realized again, that there was no way I was going in the corps if that's what they expect.

Oh my. I'd forgotten about being blamed for weather. It hit my funny bone as I was reading your post. I wish I'd had the sense back then to laugh. But I remembr being asked where I had missed it and then really worrying about it and feeling bad. OMG. No wonder my self esteem took such a nose dive. I didn't believe big enough to control the weather. :o :lol:

Oh yeah, I remember being told that if you couldn't lead songs then you couldn't help or lead people. (I was struggling with the 6th (?) count.......So I would only pick songs out of ring adong de vey that had two counts. LOL.

Now that I think about it, my brother once told me that they used to have to keep microphones away from their twig coord or she wouldn't stop expounding on the scriptures and they didn't want to be tired for work the next day. I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm wondering if she really did use microphones. I'll have to ask him sometime.

Years ago, the limb coord couple I was under were quite a pair. K** the wife was prone to unbelievable arrogance and temper tantrums. She was often vicious with her words. She demanded that the believers drop everything to clean her house or baby sit. She once called me at work and told me I would need to drop some of my shifts because she needed more help as they were running a class. She told me God would meet my financial needs if I was really believing.

J** the husband wasn't as vicious with his words, but he was a whiny arrogant baby. J** and K** often argued in front of people. He was also prone to temper tantrums. He loved sharing this dumb story about how his mother once had hurt his feelings, so he ran away to go live in a homeless shelter. He was witnessed to at the homeless shelter by a WOW or something so it changed his life and went home to live with his Mom. That of course led him to be the great limb coord he thought he was.

They were both full time paid staff, yet could not keep their own home clean or take care of their yard without demanding the believers do it for them. Not to mention all the free baby sitting they got.

But here is the really weird thing. They watched a lot of TV. They were always talking about Friends, Law and Order and the X files to name a few. But their favorite was the Young and the Restless. They had a special date every week day with each other to watch it together. Little J** would come out of his "office" in the home where he was diligently studying the word to be with his wife so they could watch together.

He would say how doing this really made his wife K** appreciate him more and how it brought them closer together, making their marriage better. He would talk about one character in particular, Ryan McNeil. He would tell us how he learned how to be a man from watching this character.

When the Corpse was told they had to go back to work, J** was completely terrified as he had never known how to make a living. He had left his Mother's house and went right into the Way Corpse. He did some menial jobs for a while, but was constantly filled with fear that he would not be able to make the bills. His wife K** refused to work because she said she was a mother with responsibilities. (Her only work experience had been waitressing and nobody that worked with her liked her.) She still had the believers baby sit, clean house, do yard work and all of her bidding for free.

Eventually they were promoted and were back on full time paid staff much to the releif of J**. He could go back to not having to support his family but telling other hard working honest believers how they should support theirs.

This is the weirdest couple I have ever known. Although I do have some sympathy for J**. He once shared at a marriage class how he had spontaneously proposed to K** without thinking about it. Then afterwards when he realized how tyranical she was, he broke off the engagement saying he knew he could never be truly happy with a b**** like that. But when Loy heard about it, he told J** that they might as well both leave HQ if they couldn't keep a commitment. With J**'s deep fear of supporting himself and his deep devotion to Loy, he went ahead and married K** even though he did not love her. He actually used this as an example in this marriage class about how you can so renew your mind to the word, you can be married to anyone no matter what their personality is. I do not respect K**, but how sad for her that her husband feels that way.

And how sad for J** that he has stayed married to someone he does not love but "renews his mind to". A while back I heard him teach on a Sunday night teaching. He told the same worn out story about how he used to be in this band, his one moment of glory. I felt so sorry for him. A guy raised by a single mom, in the way corpse as a young person, married to a shrew, and fantisizing about a band that he used to be in as a teenager. (He once played us the music from his band, they were not good, they would not have made it but I think he thinks they would have).

So, I do think they are weird and I pity their children.

Who is the weirdest person or couple you have ever known? Do you feel sorry for them or do you just think they are jerks?

Thanks Everyone for the laughs, insight and reading recommendations. I appreciate it very much.

School has barely started and already the girls are starting turf wars. Can't be friends with that one if you are going to be friends with this one.

Is it possible for three girls to hang out together without two of them isolating the third?

They seem to all struggle with jealousy too.

Drama is the perfect word to describe it.

well, i don't know, as the person with the most posts, and i haven't started too many threads, i'm still here

because i'm lonely

I'm glad you are here ex. I get a lot out of your posts and you often crack me up.

Well, I left before the Okie went super-anal and banned everything. But, before that, all sorts of stuff was frowned upon, and one soon learned what activities to avoid (or keep secret anyway).

Reading the newspaper or news magazines was not favorably looked upon. T.V. was always suspect, so you had to be careful what shows you talked about. Movies were dicey too. You could watch just about any of them you wanted to, but you'd have to be sure to "rightly divide" the contents if you were to discuss them later.

All sorts of words became verbotten. "Luck", "Chance", "create", even "happy" were seldom used by "good" believers. Anal-retentiveness about vocabulary became the norm very quickly.

Anything one did that put demands on your time or resources (so that you may have less to dedicate to WayWorld) were always vigorously discouraged. So college, major hobbies, or - GOD FORBID! - getting insurance, were all well beyond the pale...

Oh the memories. I remember times being caught reading a book and having to justify why I wasn't reading the word instead. I once came across a magazine with an intersting article in it and got the magazines can be devilish lecture, why didn't I just read the blue book on my break?

Vocabulary was the worst. I once had the audacity to say in a sentence "If we get enough people for the class........" I was reproved for my lack of beleiving by using the word if when referring to class registrations.

I used to not invest in a 401k because I was told it was gambling. So glad I think for myself these days. We're behind financially to our age group, but at least we have a shot at doing better now.

So, I have a question...What if you left TWI and your family was still in? WHat would happen? Wouldthe family "disown" you? I think dealing with the family abanding you would be hard.

PS, I was never a member of the TWI.

Many people did disown family members who left twi. They were often threatened by leadership that they would be "marked and avoided" if they continued a relationship with their "copped out" family member.

Leadership also accused people who left of being posessed. So family members were fearful of their loved ones.

Some familes left together, refusing to mark and avoid their children, parents and siblings. One top leadership family I knew of used to get off on marking and avoiding other people. They were vicious to so many. But when one of their sons was mark and avoided, they left. They could apparently dish it out but they couldn't take it.

There was one couple who was on staff at HQ for many years. One day the husband suddenly died. Leadership tried to tell the wife to not have anything to do with her children that no longer "stood" with the ministry. Somebody did speak up and say that they could not tell a mother to ignore her children during this time of grief for the family. I did not know this woman well, but I always hoped she didn't heed their evil "advice."

This probably sounds crazy to someone who was never involved and it was. It sounds crazy to me now.

Maybe he and Donna are putting together a class with a really long title where they use their own experiences as examples to having a successful marriage and family. :wacko:

I remember how offended he once got when a corps grad sent him a marriage book he read that he found interesting. The guy was only showing him a book that he learned some good things from. Craig flipped out because he thought the guy was insinuating that his marriage with Donna needed work. That was a long day on the microphone.

Maybe Craig should have read the book.

We can always fling some biscuits and gravy!

Don't forget the cayenne pepper, sea salt and kelp.

Don't forget the cayenne pepper, sea salt and kelp.

Oh yeah, and the grape jelly.

I say "especially mental health" because it was taught that they promoted a "worldly" kind of wisdom that was contrary to God's Word. Heck, they could even be possessed (or worse). Wouldn't want to take advise from somebody like that when you could just as easily get everything you need from leadership. Besides, you should take the money you save by not going to them and send it to The Way.

Yeah, you are right about that. As if it was so much better not to get help but to give your money to people who would only chastise you when you admitted you needed help. Whenever I was dumb enough to go to leadership for advice, I was verbally and emotionally assaulted and ended up apologizing to them for taking up their time with my "weaknesses"

St*ve* D*ani*el was one of the worst for this. I once saw a child ask him a bible question after the class and instead of answering it, he "reprooved" the parents for letting that child run around with a question like that in her mind.

He was such an ego maniac. After touting himself as the MOG for the state, he would resent anyone who sought advice from him. He often publically used these situations as an example of weak believers.

God forbid somebody didn't constantly agree with him.

So I guess it was forbidden to consider any need I may have had in my life important.

Thanks everyone.

I have a high school aged girl who gets good grades. But there are so many cat fights amongst the girls in high school. So much jealousy and competition. I have not had any success getting involved and trying to help resolve things. Ignoring it all hasn't helped either. Talking to the other parents sometimes makes it worse. I'm at a loss.

When does it end? My high school aged boy didn't go through this.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Hi Everyone,

I noticed the chat room for discussion on children. But I've never noticed anyone in there. Just have some things I'd like to ask advice on if that's OK.

Fin

I heard someone say once "Our children make it impossible to regret our lives." I do wish I had done a lot of things differently. But having my children has convinced me I'm where I should be now.

I'm sure Joyce Meyer is a nice lady, but just because it's a witty rhyme doesn't make it true.

Seth

Well of course. If life were that simple, then "Where's the beef?" would have delivered millions of people.

However, I'll take inspiration, thanfulness for God and appreciation for the good things I have in life from anyone or anywhere I can get it. :-)

I'm sure Joyce Meyer is a nice lady, but just because it's a witty rhyme doesn't make it true.

Seth

Well of course. If life were that simple, then "Where's the beef?" would have delivered millions of people.

However, I'll take inspiration, thanfulness for God and appreciation for the good things I have in life from anyone or anywhere I can get it. :-)

You're already a win-nah Polar Bear!

Hi F.Un. I like your logic. Job certainly had a good shake coming to him, and it's a good read.

My income's certainly increased, quite a bit since the last year I was "in" the Way. But there's certain changes I made that contributed to that outcome. Still, there's been a very constant increase. It's more than double, fortunately. Still, I can always find good use for more so if anyone's double downed and hit the jackpot, I can be reached at SoquesWillFindGoodUseForYourXtraDough@sweetdeail.com. Besides my own effort though I give full credit to the Creator and Father of All Good Stuff, who's seen fit to slide some sugar my way.

Likewise family and other stuff - I can't say that I was all that robbed and ripped though so there's no rags-to-riches story to tell really. Well, I definitely have more "good" socks in the drawer now, and some nice pants. Nothing extravagant, but decent quality. I've gotten some very nice guitars too, going from one to many. So, that's nice. I have a nice computer and some other recording stuff. I never had that before. It's taken awhile but stuff seems to have come around where once there was none. More than double that, i I guess.

Mostly my kids - man, I have great kids. My wife's great too. She's the same one I've always had but it's significant she's still onboard for the trip. Thre's some serious spiritual joo joo going on there. God's got my back. Wife, kids, can't say enough about them. 'Sall good. Plus, my kids are old enough now to know what it takes to meet their own bills so I've got serious street cred' in that department. Respect! It's a beautiful thing.

My Wife enjoys Joyce Myers too, now and then. A little bit goes a long way. Joyce isn't my thing, I'm sure she means well and is nice and all but I don't get much out of her sermons and preaching. But this sounds like one of those affirmations my Wife likes, that sets a positive expectation and can be easily remembered. Nothing wrong with it, IMO. Why not double? Triple, you deserve it. Everyone does.

That's awesome. Thanks for sharing. :)

That song Shannon, about the dog dying. Henry Gross? "

"Shannon, is gone I heard

She's drifting out to sea

She always loved to swim away

Maybe she'll find an island with a shaded tree

Just like the one in our backyard"

I remember about 10 years ago I was working at a job and this song came on the radio and I told the two women in the office if they don't change this station I was going to start crying. They looked at me like yeah right. Well about the first 30 seconds I burst out crying. They looked at me so shocked that I started laughing. Then crying. Then laughing because of the way they were looking at me. Then crying... and so on.

One of them finally handed me a tissue while the other one changed the station quick.

The other song that ALWAYS gets me is the ASPCA commercial with Sarah McLachlan "Arms Of An Angel" with her haunting voice and all those sad dogs looking at the camera. Oh MAN! I couldn't take it, I called up and was in tears joining the ASPCA. That was almost a year ago and I STILL cry when that commercial comes on. I try to change it, but I tell you, that commercial does it's job! :(

Oh Wow. You and I have so much in common. Pass the tissues........

fullyunderstand I hope the naysayers here didn't scare you away. Pay no attention to them I strongly believe in this principal to be true.

In fact, I was kicking myself this morning because I was reading in the local paper where there was an event yesterday, just a couple of miles away that I would have LOVED to bring my dog too, and I missed it. I was doing NOTHING yesterday and I just wanted to kick myself this morning.

But now, I already asked God to make it up to me (and Nico) and I just KNOW He will. It may sound corny but I really believe I will have something to look forward to now that will be twice as cool as the event I missed.

BTW, I like your icon, is that your dog? Looks like a baby pit bull!

Hi Rottie,

Thanks for the post. You reminded me of something. For many years I wanted a dog. But we were usually renting places that no pets were allowed. (The debt free issue) A few years ago we were finally able to get a dog. He brings us so much joy. He makes us laugh every day, he is so funny. I think God made dogs to make sure someone would always be around to give us unconditional love. It's nice to meet a fellow dog lover. I bet it is going to be made up to you. It matters to you so it matters to God. Let me know what it ends up being, I'd love to hear. :)

lol oenie !!!

ps. i am really happy for you finally. i can't bring myself to call you FU lol

LOL. I didn't realize what the initials meant when I was trying to think of a name to use. Good thing I didn't do something like that to one of my kids.

If some of mine would come in right now in the form of a great job, I'm open to that. :D

And, I'm very happy for your good fortune in that same area, Finallyunderstand!

Thank you Waterbuffalo. That was nice of you to say. I had a lot of years of awful jobs because I had no skills. What kind of a job would you like to have?

(You don't have to tell me if you don't want to. Not trying to intrude just maybe I can think of something.)

:)

My wife knows how I feel to a certain degree and is waiting for me to

have trust and confidence in the leadership and the way again.

She thinks I will wake up one day.

Other family is clueless.

Do not want to give to many details WGB and all

copenhagen

Dear Copenhagen,

For a very long time, I was in the same position that you are now in. I hope you don't mind if I share some things with you.

You may actually be in an unique situation where you can resolve things peacefully. Have a graceful exit. Maybe you could start by cutting back on the times you go. (Only once a week for a while then only once every other week for a while, then fade out.)

The reason I say this is because of your children. You could teach them that not everyone has the same beliefs, but that we can agree to disagree without hard feelings. Explain to them that many families have different religions within a family but they are still loving and kind to each other.

One day your children may want to stop being a part of the twi. Wouldn't it be nice if they could avoid going through what you have? What if they move somewhere where the leadership is tyranical and they spend years of their young adult life being traumatized and confused? They should know that it's OK to leave any situation that isn't right for them.

When asked why you are not going anymore, just graciously say that it is no longer for you. But you respect their choice to continue and hope that they will respect yours. Don't get into any long debates or arguments. Don't put anyone down. You may have to endure some of your family freaking out, but hang in there and be as loving toward them as you possibly can. When you see the other people from twi be polite and friendly.

This will do more for your kids then if you finally explode and turn their world upside down by saying things about people they love. Like in a divorce, where one parent rants and raves about the other parent. It always ends up backfiring somehow. If not right away, then later when they grow up and figure it out. The grown adult child will usually not appreciate the parent who tried to poison them against the other parent.

They also may be angry to find out later that you promoted something to them that was making your own life miserable.

Hopefully your wife and you will be able to come to an agreement that you will never disparage each other to the children no matter what your "religious" beliefs are.

Families can be overwhelming anyway. Maybe you can connect with people who were finally brave enough to leave the family religion or the family business. Those two things are notoriously difficult for people to do.

I know a former unhappy construction worker who is now an imensely happy computer programmer since he finally left the family business. The family was eventually OK with it all.

I also know someone who was raised in the twi by her Mother. Her Father wanted nothing to do with it. While she was growing up, she was told by twi people that she didn't have to obey her Dad because he wasn't in the word. (He was actually already a Christian) She was also very hard on her Dad at times and kept trying to win him over. He was always kind and never trashed anyone. He just loved her and took care of her but continued to do his own thing.

She is now a grown adult who has chosen to no longer be a part of twi. She sees now how terrific her Dad had always been and how ridiculous life in twi was. They have a beautiful and close relationship. Her parents are still married, happily and her Mom is no longer so zealous. For a while she was mad at her Mom for all of it, but they are OK now.

If you need to vent, vent to us here at Grease spot. You have some great posts and great advice to give to people who want it.

I hope I haven't offended you with this very long post full of my opinions, I realize we don't know each other.

It's just that, like I said I was in your same position for a very long time. I have family members, including my spouse who still attend twi fellowships. What I have just shared with you is what worked for me. Because of my family, I needed to leave graciously on my part.

I made the break slowly so my spouse could get used to the idea. My spouse now is able to respect and support my decision as are other family members and my children. My marriage is stronger than ever, because I'm happier.

I'm friendly with the twi people, but they no longer have the hold on me that they used to. They don't say anything bad about me (my spouse wouldn't allow it anyway). I've forgiven them for the things they did and I think they have forgiven me for the things I did. But I don't spend much with them. I am so glad to have other friends.

This transition didn't happen over night and you will need to do it when you are ready and in a way that works for you.

But it was worth it. I'm so much happier and much more free than I ever have been. I still love God and I'm still a Christian. I actually help people more now than when I was with twi. I just do it because I can and I want to. I no longer have the pressure of selling twi to them.

So again, I hope I haven't offended you and I won't keep sending you these super long posts. I just really wanted to tell you all of this in case it helps you someday.

Thanks,

Fin

socks,

wife, children and family all drinking the kool aid.

copenhagen

Dear Copenhagen,

Does your family know how you feel?

Thanks,

Fin

i can't think of much worse except for maybe top floor wierwille (oh did we name buildings after men?) on a corps night listening to the great one teaching on the word "and" or was it "or" or "if"

You forgot "also".

I was listening to Joyce Meyer on TV this morning. She said a lot of things that got me thinking, because sometimes I don't move forward and take opportunities and I don't always know why.

Then she said "God will give you double for your previous trouble." I know she was referring to Job, but the way she said it made me think. I had a difficult childhood and then bad experiences with twi. Life is certainly not perfect for me now, I still have problems I'm sorting out. But I can see where God has given me back double for my previous trouble.

I have a very loving and fun marriage and terrific children. My family is the best thing in my life. Our home is a refuge. I even have the most loving, supportive and fun in laws you could imagine.

I have a wonderful job that 45 other people applied for, but I got it just because they liked me. I didn't have much experience but they thought it would be worth the investment to train me. I have learned so many things and gained skills I didn't have before. They have teated me very well, I enjoy my coworkers, I like going there every day, and this job has greatly improved our family's life style.

I have made some really nice friends and I feel like our family has love, respect and friendship in our community.

My life now is so much better than what I had growing up and then being with twi. For as bad as those experiences could be at times, I see how God has always still been there for me.

So, where has God given you double for your previous trouble? I thought it would be interesting to hear what you all have to say.

I used to have dreams of flying, and it was always the same. I would be walking down my street, Clearbrook Lane, which was a long hill down to the culdesac where I lived. With massive oaks, towering tulip poplars and sycamore trees on the left and right, I would be skipping down the street , and it would always be on a sunny morning. And as I skipped along, I would get my stride right and then leap into the air and be carried light as a feather about fifteen to twenty feet up and for a distance of thirty or forty feet or so! And then I would touch down lightly, get my stride right and do it again and go even higher and farther each time. And always in the dream, I would say; "I knew I could do this! I just knew it! And I am doing it again!" And it seems so real when I have that dream. I have still had that dream into my adulthood, but it seems to be one that occurs less and less. Use to dream it alot when I was a kid.... :)

Jonny,

I have had a similar dream like that for years. A while back I saw a TV show that offered theories on what dreams meant. They offered a theory on this dream. It's a memory from child hood when an adult would pick you up and throw you up into the air (still holding on). That's why the sensation feels so real yet safe. This made sense to me and I actually remembered running and someone catching me and throwing me up over and over saying "whoops a daisy!"