John M Knapp LMSW

Hard to make friends, too, no skills left.

TWI and no doubt other groups practised "mark and avoid" (M&A) where people were cast out with all sorts of horribly slanderous things said about them, often to their faces and always behind their backs. These people are terribly cut off, and may have gone through immense separation trauma, at least to begin with. This type of "lightbulb" doesn't want to change, it wants to get back in the box where it came from . Perhaps like your JW client. This lightbulb only knows it needs help coping with life as it has become. But no doubt you know that!

PS no attributions, just help these people! :)

Yup, some people call these "castaways." I work really only work with people who see the need to change. There are "exit counselors," such as Rick Ross, Joe Szimhart, and others, who may be called in by family or friends to do an intervention to help a person see the need to leave twi or another group. For various reasons, I don't do that kind of work. But I have respect for those who do!

Occasionally, I've done work with people, like the JW I mentioned, who haven't decided to leave their group. In his case, he is trying to save a family relationship that has given him an ultimatum to leave the group -- or else. So he sees a need to change his situation because of the pain he is experiencing, but sees no need to leave JWs. This is rare for me.

Usually when someone reaches out to a self-professed cult counselor, they are interested in recovery from their cult.

Twinky, thanks for the ideas on difficulties you see people are faced with. Keep 'em coming!

J.

P.S. I put the link up to GSC on my links page.

Is there something on TWI on the Knapp website? Posts suggest yes, but I can't see it.

As well as the list of "problems" that people may suffer from - perversely, as well as difficulty in trusting, I found I became too ready to trust other Christians. You know, the sort of "instant friends" we got with TWI. Too open where being more circumspect might have been an advantage.

John:

You have some interesting links on your page. You might feel inclined to add the Cafe's address - or maybe just give it to any exTWI who approach you.

The Cafe has been immensely healing to so many ex TWI people, to see that whatever they are dealing with really isn't just their problem but is common to many others over a long period of time. They are already well on the way to healing if they are seeking your help. Whatever it takes to get them sound-minded again...

The recent leaver (especially involuntarily) may well consider you "possessed" by devil spirits and would never contact you.

Great post, Twinky!

I have no information regarding any group on my site -- with the single exception of my group, Transcendental Meditation, which I include because it allows me to talk about my own experience.

I keep no lists of cults, rather I talk about cultic relationships. The most I do is mention a few categories of cultic groups: New Age, multi-level marketing, Bible-based, and so forth.

Your point about being too trusting is a great one. I will add it to the list of symptoms. (If you like I'll add an attribution, as suggested by Twinky at GSC.) People tend to have too porous boundaries after leaving a group. Their boundaries were so violated by the leaders, the group, the teachings, that many do not have a healthy sense of boundaries from others. Particularly people with similar beliefs, like in this case other Christians. It can lead to bouncing from one group to another, troubles with intimate relationships, being victimized by scams, etc.

I agree the Café seems to be a wonderful resource. I should have thought to add it to my links page myself! I'll do so this morning.

You're right, I work with people who are already on the path to recovery -- they've made the decision to leave. To do therapy, it's pretty much necessary to do so. Do you know this old chestnut: "How many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb? Just one. But the lightbulb really has to want to change." (Sorry! I have a corny sense of humor.)

(Although I'm working with a Jehovah's Witness right now who wants to remain in the Church. I try to meet people right where they are and accept their goals at face value.)

Thanks again, Twinky, for your post!

J.

so will you be like the Dr. Phil of GS?

AAACK! Please not Dr. Phil!

Actually, I probably won't post too much more. I fear overstaying my welcome.

But I'll follow this thread as long as people have any questions for me.

J.

Hi, guys,

Thanks for the plug. Actually GSC has a small list of cult recovery resources off their homepage, under "Links." Some great people are mentioned there. There are fair number of counselors with cult experience, each with their own personality, methods, and philosophy. (I hope to be listed among them soon on the Links page. But I'd be proud to be listed at the bottom of this list of professionals!)

I think a number of exit counselors or mental health professionals get good results for their clients.

I'd urge anyone thinking about counseling to do some shopping. Make sure you have a good rapport with the counselor, ask about their credentials/licenses, and be direct about questions of fees and length of treatment.

Make sure you get answers -- and that you agree with them!

I meet some people's needs -- and not others. I give referrals to other counselors when people ask.

when you have a problem, it's an "opportunity" to believe God

there are no negatives, you see ? not in The Way :)

Hi, excathedra,

Yes, I'm aware of this trait of TWI. A number of cults, both religious and secular, use something similar as a means of control. If you have a problem, it's not with God, the leader, the method, the Bible, the group, etc. -- the problem is with YOU.

This works to isolate people, because they are afraid to tell their truth and be judged by other members. It also fosters dependency on the group, who has all the answers, because since there's something wrong with YOU, you can't trust your own feelings, thoughts, doubts.

It's a really nasty part of cult control.

Trust me, "happy thoughts" or adherence to dogma are NOT what I'm advocating!

J.

-----

John M. Knapp, LMSW

Therapist. Counselor. Coach

http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html

why do you call problems "challenges" -- that such a wayfer thing -- no offense intended

Hi, excathedra,

No offense taken! It's a fair question.

I also meant no offense. I work with so many groups. And unfortunately each one has claimed their own portion of standard English as buzzwords to control people. It's very difficult to work with so many groups and not accidentally step on a buzzword -- which may cause pain inadvertently.

I really apologize if I made anyone reading this thread uncomfortable.

The use of "challenges" is used a lot by some therapists. It is meant to emphasize that problems have solutions, can be overcome. It's also an antidote to naming everything as a "psychopathology," such as depression, "co-dependency," "issues," and lots of other jargon words from therapy that have come to have really hurtful meanings in common speech.

Once meant to aid healing, psychological jargon has almost become the new swear words!

"Challenges" became prevalent with what's called the "strengths perspective," which emphasizes people's strengths rather than their problems. (For instance, I talk about the strengths of former cult members here: http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cultstrengths.html.)

Many therapists and academics have found that emphasizing strengths and de-emphasizing diagnoses and problem labeling gives people the confidence to attack their problems head-on. People are much less likely to feel like victims, which can hinder recovery.

This is especially important in cult recovery. Not all cult counselors use the same language. Many have different views on even core concepts. I don't mean to suggest that every cult counselor you bump into will use the language I do -- or will even necessarily agree with me!

It's really important to work with a counselor you feel comfortable with. It's the number one predictor of success in recovery from any problem/challenge.

John M. Knapp, LMSW

Counselor. Therapist. Coach.

Hi, guys,

Sorry for any confusion my post caused.

It was really me, John Knapp, posting -- although the poster showed up as "JustSayNO." Some kind of system error took place.

I'm not sure what happened. I hadn't registered for the site yet, but I just hit "reply" anyway. Apparently the system logged me in as JustSayNO, but it never asked me for a password or anything.

I foolishly thought the system had given me a default handle. Now, that I think about it, I've never seen that happen anywhere else, so I don't know why I thought that.

I didn't have JSN's password or other login information. Sounds like a security hole that needs to be fixed!

I'm sorry for any inconvenience or worry that I caused. I've already replied to an email from JSN and one from Michael explaining what happened.

I am a legitimate cult counselor and have done some work with TWI members. I think Michael will be posting a link to my site on his cult resources page.

I understand why the GSC community would be concerned about trolls or security breaches. I share your worry!

If I can answer any questions or be of ANY help, please don't hesitate to post me directly here or email me at jmknapp53@gmail.com. (A couple of forum members have written me already.)

John M. Knapp, LMSW

Therapist. Counselor. Coach.

KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html