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Posts posted by socks

  1. On 5/1/2020 at 8:12 AM, Stayed Too Long said:

    Nice Four grain loaf. 
    1. Whole Wheat 2. Dark Rye, 3. Spelt, 4. White.

    This recipe, from http://Breadtopia.com/ is a three day process. 
    Day 1: Mix whole wheat flour and starter for 12 hours.

    Day 2: Blend in the Dark Rye, Spelt, and White flour from Day 1. Let rise in refrigerator for 24 hours.

    Day 3: Knead and let rise 4 - 6 hours. Bake 475 degrees for 45 minutes.

    Some recipes call for mixing all the flour and water, and let set 30 - 60 minutes, to allow all the flour to completely absorb the water.. This process  is called autolyse. https://bakerpedia.com/processes/autolyse/








  2. 14 hours ago, T-Bone said:

    that reminds me, Twinky ....in light of recent events on this thread folks should realize that once you’ve made your bed, you must lie in it. That’s an old saying that means one must accept the unpleasant results of something they have posted on Grease Spot. It's all about dealing with outcomes and consequences.   :rolleyes:


    How does that include posts being deleted? 
    because you

    had a poster who said “fuck off” or whatever it was? 

    and then all related posts are gone.  

    It’s just weird to me.  That’s posturing at Posturepedic best. 

    “As you were” simply meant - return to your normal activity. I guess this is it, hey? Good job! 


  3. Really???

    damn you can’t say anything around here anymore.  

    how weird. It’s like say ing it cant happen because it wasn’t appropriate and offended someone, so it didn’t. 

    Tight ship? 

    GS is an odd bunch these days I’ll give you that, but that’s the wrong way to go imo. 

    put another way - reality’s a bitch but it’s one we know. 

    as you were, all. As you were. 

    • Upvote 1

  4. 54 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

    Perhaps he didn't MEAN to pull his leg.  cg claimed he was ready to act as a human shield in case someone attempted to assassinate vpw.  I think he really thought this was something he needed to do.  Perhaps he convinced himself of that, and added some sordid past to his head where he was a drug runner before encountering vpw or something.   I remember him once commenting on how some people seemed to compete with how much they were delivered from when they got born again.  I've never heard of people doing that otherwise- perhaps cg was doing it and that's why it was on his mind.

    I'm gonna go with "yes he did mean to pull his leg". 


  5. On 4/15/2020 at 8:56 AM, George Maciver said:

    It was my mistake, he didn't mention cartels, just drug running. I assumed cartels as mafias in one guise or another, read secret societies, have been around since Nimrod. Sorry for the confusion. By the way, I'm really looking forward to seeing the dude again. And Craig. And Victor. And Rosalie. And John. And Vince. And everyone here. It's going to be fun and it's going to be forever. We will all stand shoulder to shoulder with the lord when we return to earth with him in the next administration to start the clean up operation.

    We will. All this posturing and BS'ing will be over, we won't have to try and be something we really don't want to be and just allow ourselves to be the lovable lives God has made us. 

    I just don't believe he was a "drug runner" of any type. Sorry, I think he was pulling your leg to appear like he had a deep dark pasta and was some sort of a player. Hey - if you're out there Chris, prove me wrong. We can compare notes. Meanwhile I wish you and your wife health - settle down beavis! We're not kids anymore. 



    • Like 1

  6. 32 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

    That is a nice looking bun...no pun intended. I'll give your advise a try and see how it works. It is fun playing with the starter. Rocky was asking about whole grain so I have been looking into making a whole grain starter also. I found a recipe that uses multiple types of whole grain flour, so think it may be on the next list to attempt. On thing about sourdough, it keeps you on your toes.

    Thanks! Yes, it does. 

    I've tried to kinda fold over a starter into whole wheat. I've got a batch of 1/4 whole wheat and 3/4 white rising now. I've been able to get a 3/4 ww to 1/4 white with results, but I'm still working at it. I had to restart after I had a batch in the fridge for too long without a feeding and it didn't come back - well, there's a very small part of it in the current one so I guess it did sort of.

    When you get a nice batch of starter, dry some out on a sheet and then freeze it. I do that every few months and use that to refresh the starter after a period of inactivity. I think it works or helps, or something. I don't think it hurts it. :beer:

    It's fun! Interested in what you share here. 

  7. On 4/22/2020 at 1:14 PM, Stayed Too Long said:

    I made a sourdough starter a number of years ago and have enjoyed the pancakes it makes. They have a distinct flavor and texture not in any other pancakes I’ve eaten. Keeping the starter going is not much trouble at all. However, when making bread it is a different beast entirely. Apparently the starter has to be at it’s optimal rising. I have tried many ways to determine that state without much Success. The bread always turns out very flavorful, but it is hard and extremely compacted. Somehow it needs to rise better....I have added yeast to get the rise, but the yeast also diminishes the wonderful sourdough taste.

    Any suggestions on how to get this rise?

    So I’ve been dinking with my starter which had gotten pretty blah. For about 3 days I added a 1/4 cup of flour and water and gave it 12 hours or so, so I fed it about 5-6 times before it got lively last night, almost doubled in size and visible bubbles on top. I’m making a loaf today, so we’ll see what happens.... ....I put a photo of how it looks

    a few times I removed about a 1/4 cup of the ongoing starter before feeding, which I’ve read can help it along. I made a roll out of one instead of tossing and it was surprisingly edible, considering the starter was still in waking up mode. I put some photos of how it looks sliced, not as airy as I’d like but the taste was good and it was soft and squishy. 

    everyone I know who’s made sourdough bread sort of shrugs and says keep feeding it and it’ll bubble up at some point so the newest thing I learned was to be sure to refrigerate it if I’m not baking a load for a couple days. .... and then allow 2-3 days feeding to bring it back.....? 






  8. 3 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

    The problem I have had is the sourdough bread not rising. It tastes delicious, but is so compacted the loaf is about half the height of a regular slice. This doesn’t make for good sandwiches. I will use the baking soda and powder the next time and see how it goes.

    i saw a recipe for beer bread-haven’t tried it- but the only ingredients were beer, flour, and sugar. Just looking at the picture of the loaf, it appeared to rise to normal height. The top of the loaf was not smooth, but quite lumpy looking. The recipe did not call for self rising flour, but that may have been what was used.

    Hi - just saw this. I'm into my second year of making sourdough bread at home. I have been humbled more times than I want to say, so take this with a grain of alkalinity seltzer. Still learning and re learning things I've learned, and I'm a complete novice/amateur/beginner, but getting more consistent results as time goes on. I think. Maybe. 

    i've encountered exactly what you're describing, mostly in whole grain but occasionally with white flours. I've tried adding yeast - self defeating and doesn't help much. Baking powder or soda, not great results. I've used carbonated water and it basically adds more air bubbles for the starter to bubble in but it won't contribute to the actual "rise".  May add some flavor too though, which isn't bad

    It starts with the Starter - I have to work with it until it's super active - that means the starter will increase noticeably as I feed it and wait - say within 8 hours a really active starter will increase 50% in size and ideally "double". When it's doing that, make your loaves as soon as possible, using the starter. 

    I use a "1,2,3" rule for mixing dough - 1 part starter, 2 parts water, 3 parts flour. No more than a teaspoon of salt although you don't have to add that. They say to use weight instead of measuring - I've done both, either, whatever. I may add more water as I go, or flour, but having a good amount of starter in to begin with helps it to rise. The resulting dough ball will hold it's shape without immediately sagging or falling. 

    If the starter was lively to begin with the proofing should see rising within 4- 6 hours, I'm ready at about 8, but can take longer. 

    I've gotten good results going right from that first proof to a quick shaping and then second proof of maybe 1-2 hours or so and then onto my pan. I put a small tray of water in the back of my oven, to moisturize the bake - supposedly that gives it the thin crunch crust which is what I want and it seems to work. Then I bake at 390 for about 30 minutes. I don't back at higher temps as my oven seems to run hotter over longer times and I've ended up with bricks at higher temps. 

    Here's a few rolls I got, below. They started as about half that size, and rose. I don't think I did a second proof with them, they ballooned right up.  don't have a pic of the slice, but they were airy and "bubbly" inside. 

    Having said that, I too am a batch away from my next set of bricks. Its' an elusive sport, this. BUT MAN THEY TASTE GREAT WHEN I GET IT RIGHT. 

    Let us know how you do! 






    • Upvote 1

  9. 12 hours ago, Modgellan said:

    To clarify- This is what Waxit posted Sunday 04/19/2020 as the introduction to his other thread regarding this topic.

    I deleted that post for at least three reasons.
    1) it was posted in the Open Forum rather than here in Doctrinal. I could have moved it, BUT...
    2) He already had this thread moving lively along here, and

    3) Users here at GSC do not get to dictate the comment style of others, or limit responses to those they like. Numerous scriptural replies had been made already at that time, and continue to be presented but rather than discuss why they do not apply, Waxit repeats his own version, (largely) ignoring those which have been posted in response.

    Very little has been off topic in this thread, and I applaud those who have responded for being very cordial to our new participant. It has been extremely civil on their end. THANK YOU. It is like flogging a dead horse. The intent in our forums is to discuss, if anyone's intent is to "win" the argument... it simply is not going to happen! Everyone here (some more than others) is quite familiar with the scriptures and we all have our own ideas regarding them. Telling others they do not care about scriptural truths here demonstrates one's lack of familiarity with the other users of this space. I recommend new participants spend some time reading previous threads to get an understanding of the immense depth some of our members have in this regards. That is not to say we cannot learn from someone new. I think that has been stressed several times on this thread and elsewhere in the forums.

    It is however, a two way thing. It does not work well to come in and lay claim to an indisputable truth regarding some aspect and then simply expect everyone to gather around your feet as if you have all the answers. We have been there before. It does not play well in these pages. If we truly have made our case others might agree with us. It has not seemed to happen here. Few at GSC have itching ears just waiting to hear each new thing, no matter how poorly it is presented.

    I know we are all home with much more time on our hands these days. IT SHOWS!  I, for one, have read more of this particular forum section in the last two weeks than in the previous 15 years combined . Be well and stay safe.

    Agreed, it's a well beaten horse at this point. 

    Dialectical thinking moves many of the discussions on GS forward. It can be assumed that if there's interest it will generate questions, inquiry. In fact I think dialectics is one of the stronger methodologies exhibited in online discussion groups like GS. Because it's inherently arbitrary and can allow for resident skepticism it's not always a satisfying way to come to a conclusion, however it is a very useful way for normal and reasonable discussions to take place. 



    • Like 1

  10. 9 hours ago, Waxit said:

    Mate, Jesus Christ said that "He is the (only)way, the (only)truth, and the l(only) ife" and He is the Lord of the Sabbath
    You say we should focus on Jesus Christ- You are absolutely right there
    You will obviously agree with me that Jesus Christ is righteous and correct in what He said and practised
    So tell me how can someone be Lord of the Sabbath and then consider sabbath keeping insignificant

    Forget about TWI - I dont really care what they believe- if there is something good that i learnt
    from pfal- it's the keys and principles in rightly dividing the word of God.
    In fact there is a lot more than what vpw said- there are 14 rules for enabling one to rightly divide the word of God where there are no errors or contradictions
    I also pray to God that He will guide me to all areas of truth

    There are no 10,000 ways for everyone to be right. If you belives, yes everybody can be correct with differing opinion and it depends on how you look at it
     then go and join the ecumenical movemnent which is very popular, you will be welcomed there

    Let's forget about all the character analysis- what i think about you or what you think about e
    Give me one bible verse that proves 7th day sabbath is insignificant 


    There's no character analysis underway, mate. My comments weren't about what I think about you, they were about this discussion and how you're handling it. 

    I will say this - so few people seem to really understand what it means to love others, as God loves, irrespective of what others say or do. That way of relating to creation excludes animosity, or in fact anything other than the appreciation for life as our Creator has given. "As He is". My prayer for  you and everyone else I don't know is that you enjoy that kind of life, more and more, everyday. 

    Have a nice day. 

    • Upvote 1

  11. 9 hours ago, Rocky said:

    to live together, one light, one way!

    Wise words to Waxit... who perhaps would do well to clean the wax out of his ears. :spy:

    Res ipsa loquitur

    sometimes the facts speak for themselves. 

    like a mal practice suit against a surgeon, the classic example of a sponge being left inside a patient. "Negligence", because a sponge wouldn't be left inside a patient after surgery WITHOUT there being some form of negligence. No one in a court case would be debating what leaving the sponge inside the patient is or means - that's already understood by the facts of the case. Thus, the mere existence of that condition indicates negligence, given the established procedures and outcomes of (the) surgery. 

    Still and all, a court case and a jury hearing might be necessary to the carrying out of real justice and in so doing it exposes the realities of the case to all angles and approaches. 

    Thus viewed, debated, countered and considered the outcome will be what everyone knew it would be at the outset........

    Barring some form of....procedural inconsistency or anomaly. Tampered evidence, incorrectly instructed witnesses, etc. etc. etc. 

    Thus the voice of the facts and the determinations related to them could end up being set aside for another day or perhaps never to be revisited again. 

    Begging the question, if a fact spoke for itself and no one was there to hear it, could be it still be heard?

    Producing the answer, of course, that that statement....speaks for itself. 

  12. 12 hours ago, Waxit said:

    Thanks pal for pointing me in the right direction and let me know the existing climate in gsc so I know the type of
    people I am mainly dealing with.

    To all people in this forum, I am sorry if I have hurt in anyway.

    I now know what the gsc forum is mainly for and how to handle negative reactions on doctrinal issues and not get defensive
    I probably wont be posting here in regards to the word of God (bible) but you are welcome to contact me if you want to know
    how the 7th day sabbath fits into God's plan for the salvation f mankind

    To all those who read my posts, I know you will not be interested- so that's ok with me- no hard feelings
    we are all personally accountable only to the Lord Jesus Christ on judgement day


    God bless you all


    This is weepy hogwash.

    No one here speaks for me and people need to speak for themselves.  

    "rightly dividing" the Word of God has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with the Way or with you. 

    You simply have a position that you believe is the correct one and you aren't going to consider that the very scriptures you and many others read and interpret can be interpreted to mean different things. This is something that is easily missed when the emphasis is on specific word parsing. The true understanding of what the Bible teaches about any one thing must be understood through the context of it's history, up to and including the most recent and current records of the N.T. The balance of material will quite literally "Interpret itself"  in the text themselves. 

    Yet there will be disagreement. Myself, I just excused myself from the discussion for the very reasons that were noted above - despite the fact that there had been discussion and various forms of disagreement and alternative opinion offered you continued to essentially keep whacking away at the same material, as if writing it again would make it make more sense. It doesn't. 

    I just wanted to take exception to your interpretation of what's been written here to mean that those of us who have contributed to the discussion have no interest in "rightly dividing the Word of God"....thats a cheap exit excuse on your part. Many of us do, which is why I took the time to engage you. 

    Today Im going to speak to and see a lot of people who share my faith and who don't all agree with each other on certain points of their faith in Jesus Christ, but who all love each other and share together because of that one thing - their faith in Jesus Christ. 

    He's bigger than both of us mate - keep your eyes on the Savior and all of this will make better sense and come into perspective. 



  13. On 4/16/2020 at 4:33 AM, skyrider said:


    socks.......another  thing to consider in all this was martindale's fixation on "The Eight Great Statements in the Book of Acts."  He wrote a book on it.......illustrating how this word of God increased and the number of the disciples multiplied [Acts 6:7].  Step by step progression.  Eight statements of progressive levels of growth.  Martindale had every limb coordinator teach this  material to their respective states in 1994.  Building blocks.  Progressively stepping forward......away from the past.  Acts 19:20 says "So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed."  See, right there......"prevailed."  The slogans and themes......and the bumper stickers.

    Ten (10) years had elapsed (1986-1996).......from the major exodus of many corps till then.  Martindale was on the cusp of setting a "higher standard" with his soon-to-be-released class series:  The Way of Abundance and Power.  This did not happen overnight.  Nor did it happen in a vacuum.  It was progressive.



    I can certainly relate to what you said about taking that journey.....where it started, where it went.

    That is why I wrote about "my journey from 1989-1998 to illustrate its progression ............. Insanity on Steroids

    We Thought We Were Free

    *From the book "They Thought They Were Free (the Germans 1933-45)" by Milton Mayer.

    "Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained, or on occasion, 'regretted,' that unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field see the corn growing. One day it is over his head."


    Well, I was free - always free to make my own decisions, and I did. 

    When I got involved with the Way and VPW, I already knew I didn't really "need" to do any of that - the Way Corps, being a member/non-member of the Way, get the cap, the t-shirt, the certificate, all of it, in order to be a fully functional Christian believer. I'd given that all up already once by not continuing formal relations with Roman Catholicism. I still felt and feel that my faith's roots are in that religion, as it's where I learned of Christ to begin with, where I read the bible in school, and began the journey of my life BUT I moved into another stage, phase, of what I was going to do next. 

    Rather I made a deliberate decision to "sign up" to work with the Way, and for the Way, as a means to try and carry out the personal vision I had as a Christian. I'd heard the teaching, done the work the first couple years to learn it, had a question or three about it but realized through other things I'd read and participated in I had some of the same and some different questions about all of it, period. Hooking up with Dr. Weirwille and the Way Corps and making the music ministry my primary focus was deliberate - I decided - okay, I'm going to work with this group and see where it goes and what I can do, because I'm going to do something.....and I'd already seen how frail organizations were and the Christian movement at that time were. (like Lonnie Frisbee and Ted Wise, two names that always come up with the California Jesus Movement. I met Lonnie once - in San Francisco - he seemed like a highly energized guy and as charismatic to his peer group as he's been described but I knew that wasn't for me. Within a couple years I was getting a more solid idea of what I wanted to try - as things went I said fine, I'll give this a shot. 

    Unlike some but along with many others I saw the "power of God" and the active living of pneuma hagion-new birth in ample display at that time, both in and out of the Way.
    I've been "ordained" three times, the last time was in the formal ceremony of the Way Corps. Each time before that was in relation to doing the work of the ministry of the Church, of reaching and caring for those who heard, believed and lived in their new faith. Each time, "sent forth" in life in service. 

    I met my wife before any of the Way, we dated, we married and have a relationship over the last 5 decades that has nothing to do with the Way Nash, as a formal part of that relationship. 

    When it was time to leave, I did. A few years late, as it turned out, but I wasn't ready to make the break at the time I first saw it but I knew it was going to happen. Finally I did it, after offering to go up to the Farm and do anything I could to assist and help, if they thought it would help. Townsend told me to check back in 6 months - "If I'm still here, let's talk".......I knew, that ain't gonna happen. And I realized from the expression on his face how crazy it was to think of trying. 

    I can only speak for myself. With the time left I have an idea of the direction unfolding before me and that'll hopefully be a blast! 

    "Be the change I want to see"......


  14. 1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

    A bit more on that can be found here, in one of martindale's explanations of it, from a staff meeting April 1, 1996.



    The Prevailing Word in the Promised Land of the Household, or Promised Land of the Prevailing Word in the Household--I guess either way would work. That's been the way it's jelled in my soul in defining our overall vision, our goal. Like for years we worked with the Word Over the World concept in our thoughts and hearts, and it helped us make our decisions and prioritize our lives, and as we move into Generation II of The Way International Ministry of Research, Teaching, and Fellowship, there has to be ways to focus our thoughts and define it, both culturally and in language that communicates, as well as Biblically and spiritually. And it's just like we learned to understand it in Dr. Wierwille's ministry--we looked at the Word, we studied the Word, we adapted concepts and ideas and functions and programs to the times in which we lived; and did all we could to make the Word of God available and establish--to use military terminology --beachheads. As I said in the Book of Acts teachings, centers of reference, or spheres of influence in the culture, that would make available the Word of God.

    This cannot be evaluated in a senses manner--only to a certain extent. If we worked for McDonalds, we'd pull out our map and see everywhere we had a restaurant, and we'd decide what gaps we have. It can't be looked at in that manner, because if you look at it in that manner, I don't think we could say the Word is over the world. I think sense-knowledge-wise that would be contradicted. Certainly there are many gaps on the maps. But I look at it in terms of the impact. Like I taught in the Book of Acts, expansion is defined numerically, geographically, and in sphere of influence. Now that means all three have to be considered as a unit in terms of what we would say the Word is over, or the Word is available to a section of the country or the world. And that sphere of influence is especially noteworthy in terms of energized ministries. And I believe I see that deeper than ever before indicated as such at times and over the years, because I know I've made the point that every section in the Book of Acts opens with an energized ministry functioning.

    Of course, the reason you have energized ministries is for the perfecting of the saints. So that implies that there are active disciples in areas that are part of that sphere of influence. It isn't just to be an Elijah sitting in the wilderness by himself, or an Amos or Jeremiah--pretty much rejected, mourning the unbelief. But obviously there are to be disciples, pockets of believing, because the purpose of the ministries is first the perfecting of the saints.

    But from that numerical and geographical setting, then the great key to the Word over the world is what I always call the "sphere of influence," or the impact of that Word in that part of the world. I think as we grew and learned, many times we thought of that impact in terms of cultural or senses impact. And we had to learn; we had to grow. We thought in terms of dominating the music business or dominating Nashville; at times we thought in terms of great works of art and literary pieces moving to world renown. Well, we learned over the years that that is not really what it meant and means, because that never happened. And indeed, in a lot of cases, it hurt the ministry more than helped it to pursue it in those categories, because people at times didn't stand; they couldn't handle the spiritual pressure; they copped out and broke down. So that isn't what it meant. Remember, Corps Principle #1 is "Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and aware- ness" of the Word. Whether I understand everything going on in the world or not has relatively little significance. Only what the Word directs me to understand what's going on in the world. So it isn't a case of the Word dominating the culture. I think at times that's what we thought it meant. That's not what it meant, obviously and clearly, because that is certainly not the case in any stretch of the imagination.

    Now, that the Word has had some positive effect on the unbelieving realm, I think it's logical to say, but to document that is very difficult, because we have very little interaction in the great realms of politics and government and military and the arts and culture. We've had believers in these fields, and just having an appreciation for the Word of God, the spirit of God, I think generally we can say, yes, we have had an effect on the senses realm. Maybe we've kept it from going as rotten and evil as it could have been if we hadn't been around. But that is not the point. The point is #1: That sphere of impact is available.

    The old analogy of a stone hitting a lake that Dr. Wierwille would often use, where the concentric ripples of the waves would eventually reach the shore. To me, that's a good analogy of sphere of influence. And what you're always out to do is to make it available to those that hunger and thirst after righteousness. So therefore whether we could document it sense-knowledge-wise, which we can't, and even to look at it sense-knowledge-wise would cause me to doubt the revelation God gave me that the Word is over the world. Which I don't doubt, but I could see how the senses realm could cause you to doubt it because of the immensity of it and the sheer numbers of people, numbers of countries, numbers of dialects and cultures, which certainly cause you to doubt it if you looked at it from a business point of view or military point of view. So to me that's even more evidence to prove it has to be right.

    But again, the believing of it is your heart in the Word of God, and your humility to the Word, and your humility to what God has energized in our heart in the household to present and share and teach. I think as you are humble to that, God can keep teaching you to see that. Because it really has very little to do with its impact on culture--that's only secondary--the unbelieving culture. It's just like Israel: even when Israel was a nation, a political, geographical, ethnic, genetic country, their impact on the rest of the world was always second or third in importance. The importance was the purity within their ranks; the purity within their walls; the purity of the Word. Then, to the rest of the world they would be a delightsome land, a nation of priests, a blessed land-- "what nation is any other that has a god that cares for them like God cares for you"--statements like Moses made.

    At times we see in the Word they would be intimidated in a good way by the strength of the believers and leave them alone, but as far as large-scale adapting of Israelite practices spiritually, you didn't see that. The Canaanites, Moabites stayed idolatrous. The Amorites, Amalekites stayed as evil and dastardly as they ever were. The Philistines, who might have been the closest companions to Israel through David's day, never adapted anything. At times they'd respect them. At times they'd come through and clean their clock. It just depended on what was available to them. You didn't see any large-scale change of mind and cultures that Israel had contact with. Egyptian--are you kidding? About the closest was Nebuchadnezzar who at times showed real humility to the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Cyrus and Artaxerxes who allowed Ezra and Nehemiah to rebuild first the Temple then the walls then the city. They showed respect for God's people. Maybe there would even be an element of believing in some of these unique, rare men--like the Pharaoh who allowed Joseph to move to such a position of influence and power. But these were individuals who had a heart tender to truth. And I believe they will be rewarded in the judgments in the future. To what extent only God knows. I don't understand it all. I know there's a resurrection of the just and unjust; I believe those noted in the Word who helped God's people are going to be rewarded for it, because God is so just. Just like people who are kind to us and help us in our day, God will not forget that. Even in this life their lives are blessed when they are kind to The Way Ministry and help us in what we do and help us do the things we need to do to make the Word of God available.

    I think it's a continual growth and learning, and certainly one of the great ways to express what it means, the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word in the Household, is certainly the spiritual quality of life. That more and more can be appreciated and enjoyed by the believers of the household and disciples, and more and more God gets the glory and praise for within the house- hold. It's His joy to bless His people. And within the household, that purity and that sanctified living is most important. And the majority of what we call the household of God are functioning disciples. That minority would be those that we are giving the opportunity to become functioning disciples. And that's the only way you're going to build the true quality of life, is not allowing it to become laced and contaminated with spiritual leprosy. Even the Church Epistles are very adamant--get on or get off. They are very adamant. Grace and mercy are for those that humble themselves. Grace and mercy are not to be used as a club and a lever against the faithful. But that's definitely what the accuser does. People that chronically fail, that are chronically hard- hearted, chronically unwilling to change their minds and habits--first in their practical life as I've taught, then it becomes doctrinal, (as Dr. Wierwille taught and I think I've embellished and expanded and explained) that the greatest attacks are in the practical realm.

    Isn't it something that the ones that need to change the most many times are the most indignant when you reprove them--most adamant, on a soapbox. More and more they don't stay long on that soapbox because we are learning to have the courage--at least some of us--to mark and avoid and separate and confront them and tell them to leave. We are learning what righteousness means. It means the guts to take a stand against evil and not let the accuser make you think you're wrong because you're running off the damned lepers. And yet still we have too many people that refuse to believe that that's the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation. You want to believe that the love of God or for God in the renewed mind in manifestation means you tolerate everything, and that's a lie. And it's a doctrine of the devil-spirit realm, and you ain't going into the Promised Land. That mind set will eliminate you from the joy of the experiential reality of the quality of life that awaits us when and if the Word really prevails in the household. It's private interpretation; it's reading in your opinions of what love means; it's not reading what the Word actually says. I for years have shown you references from every Church Epistle that tell us to separate, mark and avoid, withdraw from every brother that walketh disorderly; so I'm sure some believe that and practice that, and still some in the depth of your heart, you don't really believe it. You think that love and grace and mercy mean you're supposed to tolerate everything. That's exactly how the devil spirits nearly took this ministry over, (which we're still cleaning out,) with that lack of resolve to the truth, that private interpretation of what the scripture says, that vague, general mind set about what Jesus Christ really wanted. And yet people refuse to see scriptures where Jesus Christ confronts Simon. Jesus withdrew himself from those men at times when they were not up to levels, even his best men; and Jesus Christ had very, very few people left from all the thousands and thousands that he taught and ministered to and healed. He had only about 120 who wanted to be recognized as his followers after his ascension. He would be considered a resounding failure in our contemporary world. We've got more people left on our mailing list than he had on his.

    I still think some of you feel bad about the lack of numbers and you almost feel insulted or feel disgraced. And you're just not thinking spiritually. You have a carnal mind that's enmity against God. And we've got to get that out of the leadership of The Way Ministry. And we're working on that as you know. I don't tolerate it. I confront it. And those that back me up confront it also. And we cannot have that kind of mind set in any way working at our Root Locales because it's pure contamination. The Root Locales are not spiritual infirmaries for spiritual winos and deadbeats and drunks that need to have radical overhauls in their lives and minds. It cannot be that in any way. People that need help, if they want help, can go to Twig and see if they can put up with that spiritual pressure. People that want help have no business living here. You come here to serve, you come here to give, you come here with commitment, fully persuaded mind set, and that obviously has to be the key for our whole Way Corps household, that functioning house- hold, our Way Disciples, and eventually, all our Twig coordinators; although I'm sure there's still a lot to do there that we just haven't had time to get to.

    But the quality of life enhanced and dominant is what we're talking about in the Prevailing Word. And Galatians 5:22 is a simple way to put it. "But the fruit of the Spirit"--remember that's usage 5, the gift in manifestation. "Is love"--that's that love for God. That first and foremost dominates. That the Word of God holds regnancy in our minds. Everything else is secondary--whether it comes from family, friend, culture--the Word of God holds regnancy. It prevails, it dominates. And as I've worked this "prevail" concept over the years, to me it indicates permeate, saturate, dominate. When the Word is prevailing, it's at that level. When the Word prevails, it's hardly ever even a registering of temptation, if any. It's hardly an itch, that you'd even think about not doing what the Word says, even if your closest friend tells you in a subtle way. Or even if family, a relative or something--it's ludicrous that anyone would think they could get me to not do the Word of God in contrast to their opinion. I've been through all that. It's a joke to think they could somehow bribe me with the horizontal so that I would not do the vertical. That's one way of putting what "prevailing" means. If you're still tempted to consider it, the Word does not prevail. It has not permeated, saturated, and dominated.

    I said to the Corps at that Corps Night in Texas, if you're still sitting there doubting the sagacity of our decisions and doubting the words I say, even things I just said about what Word over the world did not mean--it did not mean those things once we learned and grew. If it did, we would be running the Nashville business. We would have dominating novelists writing the top sellers of the day. We would have believers making all the hot movies in Hollywood. All the Jews would be kissing our butt out there. That does not happen and is not going to happen. There could be rare, exceptional situations. Never put a lid on what God can do. But, for instance, Joseph was a very rare scenario. Joseph became a dominant man in a foreign culture, but look at the spiritual reason. It was to save the Christline. The adversary would have wiped out the twelve tribes and their progeny through the famine if he hadn't have been elevated to that position in Egypt. He saved Jacob and the sons, including Judah out of whom Jesus Christ came. That's the reason Joseph moved to the top, understand? There would be a reason.

    And for the most part, I don't see many reasons why we should have to have dominant people in positions of influence in the country. For one thing, it's so evil I don't know what difference it would make. It's almost a miracle day by day that we have the freedom to live that we have, and I think that more depends on the solidarity and the purity and the strength of the household that we can control, and not those things we have no control over. And it's very difficult to measure what kind of impact our ministry has had on the senses realm. I don't know how to document that, except in vague notions, unless God would show me something I could pinpoint. Maybe the rage now in some places for people to get out of debt, maybe that does have something to do with our teaching. I could make the connection on a general basis, but I'm not sure specifically how to document that. I don't have time to worry about that kind of thing too much. We have too many concerns keeping what we can control clean, and you can't worry about what you can't control.

    I heard them say that on the Masters yesterday. Greg Norman is lapping the field now. One of the announcers said every guy's just got to go out there and shoot his best. He can't control how good Greg Norman's going to play. He can only control what he does. And that's all you can do. Otherwise you drive yourself crazy. I thought now there's an apt analogy of our function in this world. I can't worry about things I have no control over. The RC, Protestant, Ecumenical travesties going on; the dismantling of our military; the building up of the Red Chinese military machine--again we're heading toward a showdown. I almost think a showdown would be good. It would shock our nation back into some awareness that we've got to get some strength back in our military. But if the adversary could stumble someplace and jump too soon with the Chinese stuff, that's where the real military threat is coming from now. From what I've read, they've hired all the former USSR nuclear geniuses and they're helping them build their nuclear arsenal. It makes a lot of sense to me. The adversary just keeps funneling them one way or the other.

    "But the fruit of the spirit"--the gift in manifestation-- "is love, joy." That inside job, joy. We're never going to get to the place that there are no problems, but there's definitely a difference between gut-wrenching anxiety and just taking on problems with that inner peace and that joy on the inside. I'd like to see more of the second one.

    "Peace" is the third listed, which is complete. And remember the Word says "righteousness and peace have kissed one another." There is no genuine peace of God unless there is righteous thinking and righteous conduct. There is no genuine peace. It's counterfeit, a fabrication, a grit- your-teeth-and-hope-so, a religious peace. And eventually it's a spirit possession, where the spirits numb a person's mind and then they label it peace. But it's really a devil spirit just causing apathy and unconcern about things that we should be alarmed about. That's how the spirits counterfeit peace. Then people call it the peace of God. Sure, they call it the peace of God! They read the Bible, they call it that, but their unrighteous thinking and their unrighteous practices have opened them up to devil-spirit infiltration; and that would be the last guy to ever admit he has trouble. The Word of God says so. They know not what takes them over; it says that in Isaiah. Dr. Wierwille taught it to us. The one possessed doesn't know it. How would he know it? He's so blinded in that category of his mind. I explained in the Advanced Class that the bad habits have so grooved his mental patterns, grooved the chemical, physical properties of his mind, that a spirit just slips in underneath a bad habit. Because the bad habit has become so habit, and Biblical people have to justify their bad habits with scriptures, and then that spirit's right in there and they're out of control. Now sometimes the spirits make mistakes and they go overboard, and then it freaks the person and they wake up; but they're good; they've been at it for thousands of years. And they pretty much know how to stay quiet, and then at the right times tweak the right buttons to exercise control. No wonder discerning of spirits is listed seventh in I Corinthians 12, which is the listing of the importance of the manifestations in the household, remember. And it's the discerning of spirits that really keeps things on any divine, spiritual maturity or tending towards perfection.

    But it all starts with practical error--slothfulness, lack of disciplined thinking--and then it moves into lack of disciplined conduct. Righteousness and peace have to kiss one another--they have to touch, full share. They have to fully share, fully communicate. There is no peace of God without righteous thinking and righteous living--none. And righteousness is not just a sonship right to be used as a club against anyone that wants to confront you. That is evil. That is a devilish practice, which has been used many times. I suppose at some times you'll see it's still used by people: "I'm righteous; leave me alone." You're righteous, shut the f--- up and do something about it. Show me you're righteous. By their fruits they're known, not by sonship rights. Everybody's got them--what do you do with them? Too long that has been used as a club and an excuse, and the devil spirits hide behind that. So you don't back down. I'm talking about when someone is wrong and you've got the goods on them and you show them the Word of God.

    Many times the most hard-hearted will be the most indignant when reproved--chronically speaking, over a period of time. Again we had an example this past week of someone who's been taught and taught and taught, and finally removed themselves from the household. And now they're all bold and adamant. I get a phone call from the wife two nights ago, adamantly wanting to speak to Rev. Martindale to give me the facts on why they left the ministry. What do I want those for? I've already evaluated it spiritually and told you at lunch the other day what happened. I gave you enough. Now she's bold and adamant. She hadn't wanted to talk to me since I've known her. I've tried to get her bold and adamant about the Word of God for a couple of decades. Now she's bold and adamant. Tell me how genuine that is. I've tried to get her to stand for God and speak up and be a true leader like she has the ability to be for years. She never wanted to do it. She wanted to be a house mouse or something. Now she wants to lecture me about how wrong I am. Where's that confidence coming from? Not the God I love and worship. You have to understand something about the spiritual conflict that is waged.

    For these things to prevail, it means the conditions necessary for love, joy, peace, longsuffering to prevail, are dominant among the majority of the household. That's what I mean. The majority of your functioning household has to be disciples. Then you always have an element of raising up those that hunger and thirst and want the Word, and they have a period of learning. Not just our children, but other people we reach out to and give the opportunity to see the delightsome land of the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word in the Household functioning. And there's always that element. But you have to have enough disciples, with the Word prevailing and dominating where nothing takes precedence over it, in order to maintain that wonderful spiritual equilibrium that makes life worth living. And even more important than that, that honors and blesses the God Who's waited for centuries for somebody to figure this out and do it for longer than a year and a half. The first century church didn't last too long in the true, vital functioning of a genuine, vital household of God. Since Pentecost, there is very little success to look at. At times in the Old Testament you see periods where Israel was just so strong. When they functioned under the judge--one period was 80 years; one period 40 years; another one 20--it sort of got less and less. At least for periods the people lined it up, walked the chalk, and the committed dominated and God's people were a delightsome land and lived abundantly. And God was honored to see that His Word was being lived and worked and He was getting the glory by the quality of life people lived, as well as their conscious recognition. And that's what you're after. That's why "love" is first. That is first a love for God. And the only way to show a love for God and to have a love for God is to obey the Word of God.

    Then longsuffering is fourth, indicative of what we do need within the discipleship household. We need longsuffering to give people an opportunity to grow. We need longsuffering to continue to teach and teach until something really finally does click for people. And again that's something you can't hardly make a definitive statement about. How long do we keep teaching people they ought to tithe and abundantly share? I guess that's relative to every circumstance. Some people have just rejected it so often I don't think they hear it at all. It's just a matter of time before they're outside the walls. I read a letter I just sent to Howard yesterday or the day before where a former Corps couple had gotten themselves in debt, and they had responded to the admonitions and they just bought a beautiful new house on a straight cash basis. They owe nothing. They shared some of the details they went through--the ways the world tried to subtly get them to go in debt. They decided if they sold one of their extra cars and their camper then they'd have enough money to buy the house. Sometimes the most obvious isn't obvious until you get in a position where you have to think outside the context that you've lived in. I thought that was intriguing. They said they still have believers come up to them with excuses. That's like Acts 17: "We will hear thee again of this matter."

    In the Old Testament, God tells Israel--we're talking about longsuffering, but look at Numbers 14. One reason I wanted to take the three weeks off is first I believe the Father put it on my heart, because it's not anything I walk around thinking about. Then I began to think through some of the profit: it would give us a rest from running the top-notch meetings and all the preparation required on many of us. Really, the whole Staff is on call of course, at least by Sunday, and many of us are working all week long, every week, toward these Sundays. But I also wanted to just sit down with the Staff and really give you the opportunity to think something through. We share a lot of depth at meals and I think that's great. I love it and I ain't going to stop it, but I think there's still some things that you can't really communicate with kids crawling all over you and knives and forks in front of you and thinking about what you're getting ready to go do next. I just felt we needed some focus time. You got to focus your mind to learn in depth. Usually you have to set your own environment and life and make up your own mind and set your learning environment like at your homes and offices where you can think in depth. Because if you can't think in depth and reason through a lot of variables, you can't become an in-depth spiritual man or woman. You have to think in depth. The Word of God is a thick book. The most demanding logic in life is required to think this thing through. If you can read, you can think in depth. I don't care about your educational background. What Word over the world, the Pre- vailing Word in the Household means--you got to think this stuff through. It doesn't just hit you over the head because you speak in tongues. You got to think. Anyone can speak in tongues. That doesn't prove anything. A false teaching over the years was people thought that if all they did was speak in tongues, go to meetings, then they were living righteously. Dr. Wierwille never taught that. He said the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word! But human beings are always looking for a slothful way out.

    Years ago, when we were in that whole political realm, people acted as if all you had to do is pray for your country and vote, and God will take care of the rest. What a bogus piece of advice that is. Vote? What does that mean? All it is is a ballot of clowns no matter which one you vote for. What difference does it make most of the time? You think that has an impact? It's ok to vote, but that's not what is keeping our nation free. Who are you voting for? A bunch of idiots all cut from the same egotistical, selfish cloth. The love of money. That's why Dr. Wierwille said why is it that a guy like Jesse Helms can raise 10 million dollars to campaign for a $50,000 a year job. It didn't make any sense to him. It's a pretty bogus imbalance. It's still a good example.

    Numbers 14: At what point does God just shut it off? At what point is that mercy no longer available, therefore the functioning in the household no longer available? In the Word, it's 10 times with Israel. Not saying that's the way it is always, but it certainly was measured and God took an account.

    Numbers 14:20: "And the Lord said, I have pardoned according to thy word." Once Moses interceded, stood in the gap for Israel.

    "But as truly as I live." I'd say that's an oath.

    God says: "all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord. Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice."

    Bullinger's Bible documents the ten major places where the people rebelled. So God counts them. God keeps an account. And I guarantee He's got an account of everybody in our day also. The only way your book is clean is if you honestly confess your broken fellowship. Then He remembers it no more. So your slate is clean except for reward account. But for those that have turned their back on the Word of God and walked away, who have not genuinely confessed their broken fellowship--sometimes they hit with this: "Where's the love and forgiveness in The Way Ministry?" I would respond with this: "Where's your confession of broken fellowship?" That's the issue here. Where is your honest recognition of you missing the mark? Remember, the Word confess is homologos, same word. Where is your honest willingness to get back to the Word, then you'll see your love and forgiveness, not until then. Well, you might see love, but they won't interpret it as love. It will be in terms of confrontation. It is very loving, though. It takes a lot of work. It takes a heck of a lot more work to confront people than to turn your back and walk away. It takes a heck of a lot more love to stay on people. Ask any parent. To ignore it is a counterfeit love; very religious and it just opens the doors for the spirit realm again.

    Ten times God put up with them. Now this is when the door comes down like an anvil on them ever getting into the Promised Land.

    "Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

    But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit [or heart] with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

    (Now the Amalekites and the Canaanites dwelt in the valley.) To morrow turn you, and get you into the wilderness by the way of the Red sea.

    And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,

    How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmur against me? I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel, which they murmur against me."

    In my heart, if this thing works the way it's supposed to, and I believe it is to the best of our ability to this day, when us Trustees get together and we make a decision before God, whether it's something to teach or to implement in the practical realm, those that murmur against that in their minds and at times even among themselves, God says they're murmuring against Me. So those that are not persuaded on the present truth are murmuring against God, and eventually that contamination has to be flushed and eliminated. To get people to humble themselves: all the elaborate ways I raise the volume of my voice; all the elaborate ways I try to teach the records of the Word to get people's attention. Some just continue to reject it. I think at times people have allowed the adversary to manipulate their minds to think that it's their sonship right to disagree with the functioning ministers in the Body. And that's a lie. If that's true, you show me the Word that backs that up. Now if the ministers in the Body are wrong, then you should be able to prove that from the Word and then there is a decent and in order basis to handle that in the household. But obviously, I don't believe we're wrong. We live day by day. We certainly could make a mistake. But certainly in our hearts we are not wrong in our allegiances and loyalties to want to do God's best.

    I'm more aware than any of you how a wrong decision can be made. Even though you want to do what's right you can get tricked by a lot of things. But when your heart is there and you love God and want to do what's right, He gets you through it. Like Luke stuck with Paul and that was the thing to do even when Paul went to Jerusalem. Everyone else forsook him toward the end of his life, most of them. People think it's their sonship right to argue. They don't look at it as arguing with the Word, but it is. They are arguing with the presentation of that Word or the implementation of it. Now to have honest questions, that's life. There's a big difference. That's why we as leaders often bend over double backwards to explain the decision, especially to you who implement it from Headquarters and our Root Locales and our leadership, our Corps. You know how we do that. We just did that at Trustee Heart Time. We explained background on how we've gotten to conclusions on things and why we're emphasizing, for instance, why our young people should go to college. We spent a very measured period of time on that. I talked about Dr. Wierwille, I talked about my own upbringing. I just elaborated on it. I talked about Moses learned in the ways of the Egyptians. I explained it from multi-angles; covered every base the best I could. I covered it from the point of some people not having that desire and that's fine, and I even covered a lot of our Corps today that never went to college but came in the Corps. I covered for them by saying the Corps experience has taught them what the four years of college would have provided. I'm not saying all of us Corps now that are in our 40s, 50s, and everything else should necessarily go back to college if we haven't been. I covered every base, you under- stand? So those would cover honest questions that come up.

    But belligerence and adamancy and just the knee-jerk reaction in a person's mind to immediately argue, that's sin. And if that's where your mind is, you better change or you better go. And that's exactly why you see people recently are still going. They've hidden that adamancy and hidden that mental debate they always had with us, and they learned that from Chris Geer and they're still doing what he said they should do: argue with everything. He basically gave people the right to think evil of the leadership in The Way Ministry. I know, I stood against the brunt of that for 2 1/2 years, where I couldn't even stand up and make the simplest announcement in the lunchroom without feeling the attacks and thinking evil coming at me. It continued until we started cleaning, but it has certainly lessened where you can stand up in front of a group and have somewhat of an environment of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness, faithfulness, on down the line; where you can really communicate and teach something. Although no man is big enough mentally to register exactly what is going on, but in the inner man, I know when I'm being fought. I know when the Word of God is being hardened against. To the best of my ability, that's why I respond with such spiritual rage at times when it might not be evident to a group or why. Because God knows and He works in me, and He is the Heart Searcher, and He is not fooled. And I work for Him.

    And it is never meant to make the faithful or the righteous, those that are doing their best, to feel guilty. I think that's a temptation at times and you have to watch that. But I have to confront things that are still lepers in the household, or the seeds of spiritual leprosy. Many times I find out about it later--weeks and months later, where somebody has been harboring an attitude that's finally flushed. And I know why, when people have finally admitted it and wanted help, I realized why I hadn't been hitting that issue as much or hadn't hit it in the last Corps Night or so. But you don't always see that. But the inner man registers that. But for those that are doing their utmost, I imagine it's like I was with Dr. Wierwille, if he was yelling about something, I would check myself, but if I knew I was doing my best in that category, I wouldn't sit there and condemn myself. I wouldn't let the accuser get to me. I don't have time to sit with everybody in the Way Corps household individually every week, or the Staff. So for those that are doing certain things right, there's obviously learning in the confrontation because it's never just yelling; I'm always teaching. There's teaching in it, logic in it, explanation in it, Biblical records, contemporary illustrations, learning if you're there listening to learn--you're seeing how the adversary and the spirits are infiltrating with that kind of stuff. So there's always a profit to it.

    Like for the few that did stand, I'm sure there was great profit, and there it is recorded in the Word: it says you guys ain't going in. And He counted it, ten times. So that tells me God pays attention. It's not to the extent where if I have to confront somebody ten times, they're out. I'm not going to do that. But God pays attention--there's the lesson. And for them, ten was it. Ten was the completion of a cycle. It's a unit--ten commandments, this kind of thing. So ten was it. For our learning, it's more in the figurative significance, that at a certain point, in a certain cate- gory of your life, if you have continued to reject the Word of God, there is a certain point where that cycle is over with. And God just, in essence, turns His back because you have rejected it. And the household has to turn its back. Mark and avoid. And then because at times people continue to exist in the household even though they've crossed that line where they have chronically rejected the reproof and correction offered to them from multi points of view--whether it's me at lunch or a friend in the dorm or a tape you're listening to when it hits your heart again--God knows. He's the Searcher of hearts, isn't He? It's like Dr. Wierwille's great section in The Life-style of a Believer: the measure of your life is what do you think about when you don't have to? In the quietness of your own soul, most people just drift, daydream, fantasize. What do you do with your mind? There is a duty of disciplined thinking. That's indicative of your genuine love for God. God is Spirit. He's always there. He knows your thoughts. Do you care? Do you give a hoot to love Him with sound logic, to keep your mind and life in order? Do you care? Obviously, some people don't. Because then like Proverbs says, in a time of trouble, an unfaithful man is like a broken tooth and a foot out of joint. You don't see that in the easy times. You see it in the time of trouble. Which clearly indicates they have not controlled their thinking in the private moments of their life; they have not dedicated themselves to good, sound spiritual thinking to the end that when the time of trouble was there, they would respond. And as a leader, I'm responsible to see that and make appropriate decisions. Get the leprosy out, or the weakness that could lead to that spiritual leprosy. Leprosy is a good example because it has life of it's own, chewing up that physical body. Which is what devil spirit does in some phase in the household of God. They do nothing but deteriorate and tear down. They do in no way build up anything. Jesus Christ said that "the thief cometh not but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy," so there's no good thing that the infiltration of those spirits provides. Isn't that true that when they x-ray your teeth they can not only see cavities but also weakening areas? Spiritually, if there's a cavity, you got to get the rottenness out and fill it with the Word. But as a leader, if I see weaknesses that could lead to a cavity, then you want to start confronting, and if people will respond that part can be made healthy again. Get the old spiritual dental floss in there and start flipping the compost piles out of your head. We use spiritual x-ray, which is the Word. Within the Word, revelation, but it isn't like anybody's walking around reading anybody's mind, but there are times when definitely God lets you know. Like the couple I mentioned, I knew two weeks ago God told me they weren't going to stand. I prepared my heart for it; I was ready for it. It isn't like I thought about it every moment after that, I didn't. In fact, by God telling me that I could quit wondering about it. Just put my mind into what I had to do. But when the occasion hit, it hurt me, it always hurts. But it didn't shock me into numbness or inaction in a capacity where my mind didn't function properly.

    Like yesterday, you know that situation happened in Ohio which has a widespread impact. And I was on the phone yesterday to the Panarellos and the Howes in a conference call, updating them on where I saw this thing was going next spiritually so they could be ready for the onslaughts and attacks that would be coming. They had already been involved in some confrontations and dis- cussions and they had reported to me on it, and I was thankful for that. I was grateful they'd gotten on it. Yesterday on the phone I gave them where I saw this thing was going. They were at their Advanced Class Grad weekend.

    So He heard the murmurings of the children of Israel which they murmur against Me. It's like Acts 17. Remember Paul says of those that they searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so. But that wasn't a search out of adamancy or a critical attitude. It was a search of joy and thanksgiving and humility. They were so thrilled to hear the Word of God that Paul taught they wanted to make it their own. The word "search" there in Acts 17:11 is anakrin, which is to make right judgments, to divide properly and make proper value judgments. What they were doing was lining the values of their personal lives up with what the Word said that Paul had taught. That was "whether those things were so." It wasn't what happened years ago, where every time a person said something it was to be assaulted, adamantly and bitterly attacked. And it was called "honesty," or "not being a yes man." Where people have assumed in their mind that it's a sonship right to attack whatever a leader says. That's leprosy. That's contamination. Somewhere in the Word it says, "What? Did the Word of God come out from you? Shut up!"

    And remember, I taught Numbers 12 where Miriam and Aaron murmured against Moses; they had obviously crossed the line. The name "Miriam" occurs 7 times. I said that was a perfect lesson, because Miriam was the instigator. When Aaron humbles himself, she stays hard-hearted. She's the one that gets leprosy physically and is put outside the camp for 7 days. But that of itself is not a complete lesson. She murmured, she led another guy into it, his weakness allowed him to be caught up in it, when the confrontation came, she did not humble herself, she got the conse- quences of it, was put outside the camp. But the key issue is, she did humble herself, they did wait on her, and she's back with the household as they move on. But she did spend 7 days out in netherland spiritually, isolated. I think that's an example of delivering someone over to Satan. Remember, Satan is indirect influences. What better way to explain delivering someone over to Satan than by their own treachery and their own unfaithfulness having to put them outside the protection of the household? Isn't that delivering someone over to Satan? I think it is. Now, their response to that will vary. In Timothy it says that they may learn not to blaspheme. So for some, they learn. And we've seen that. Some that we've put outside the household, it has really gotten their attention, and they have come back with genuine humility, and we'll see what happens. I don't want to be jaded and sarcastic about it; I want to give them the opportunity. We got a letter from one of those homo people thanking me for letting her take the Intermediate Class. So she's Corps Alumnus and she's proven herself clean the best we know, and she's going to be in the Intermediate Class. And she's come back. So for some, they learn not to blaspheme, but others, it's for the destruction of their flesh, which is their whole body/soul life, which it's up to the adversary how that happens, understand? It's his business now. Some of them will look to prosper, be abundant; they won't even miss being in the household of God. But there is imme- diate spiritual consequences. They get possessed, or those spirits come in seven more wicked, and they are more locked away from the light of the True God and more fooled than ever. Some show more immediate physical consequences. We've had some of the Corps die, ordained clergy, but for the most part it's like Saul: the spirit realm will use them as long as they can be used. That's why it's absolutely ludicrous to look at it from a senses point of view.

    We had another report last week of a couple that used to be here on Staff. They were confronted and confronted and finally told to leave. They caused nothing but trouble on the field. Now they're outside the household. And now they're calling false ministers that used to be in The Way Ministry asking how they're doing. They are seeing if these people seem to be getting along and thinking of joining that group. Talk about a carnal mind that's enmity against God. They're just walking right into the trap with their eyes wide open. They're not believing a thing I've taught them over the years about how the spirit realm contaminates and how the Word guarantees it. One copped-out minister is making all kinds of money. So what? Does that impress you? Only from the point of view of what the spirit realm will do to cover itself--it impresses me there. But as if there's any truth there--there's not even an itch of a temptation. How could you even be tempted to think that? If you still are, the Word of God does not prevail in your mind, and you are teetering on disaster. This is not an open meeting. If you still wonder what it's like outside of The Way, if you're still playing with that idea or even considering what would I do if I left The Way Ministry, what are you doing?

    Years ago, when Dr. Wierwille first got us going in the Corps, I remember the First Corps were all freaked out that Dr. Wierwille was going to throw them out of the ministry because he was setting the standards. He wasn't looking to throw anyone out. He wanted them to live the Word. But they were terrified that they would fail and be kicked out of the ministry. I learned how the adversary can do that to people. Rev. Moynihan sent me a letter from a guy that wrote and said, "We have no disagreement with where Rev. Martindale is taking the ministry. We just don't think we can live up to it anymore. Therefore we're leaving." That would be disobedience from another angle. They're not acting adamant; they're just saying they can't keep up with the quality of life we're expecting them to live, so they're leaving the household. Well, the consequences are the same. You go outside the walls of the city whether you're mad at how it's being orchestrated, or whether the standards are too high--you still get attacked by the wild beasts and the enemies outside the walls. So you can't let it happen from that point of view, either. That's where you got to grab your Reebok jock and pump up your balls and do it, man. [Laughter] In essence, all I'm saying is gird up the loins of your mind. How dare you say to God that you can't live at this level. That's treasonous also. You're calling Him a liar. Sure you can! Just get rid of your icons, your bad habits. Permeate yourself with the truth.

    The Monday after Word in Business I was exercising down in the fitness room, and about ten feet away from me was Riddick Bowe, one of the two great heavyweight boxers in the world, him and Mike Tyson. A guy came in and climbed on the stair climber next to me and I didn't know him. He exercised and finished and he sticks his hand out and says, "I'd rather meet you than Riddick Bowe any day!" He was a believer that had been at the conference. One of the things he said, a simple statement, but it got me thinking of a lot of things: "Man, the abundance of the Word of God this year has just been incredible!" The Advanced Class Weekends, Sunday Nights, Way of Abundance and Power Classes--and I thought, that's right, it has been abundance, and yet still, it's not an overabundance. We still have people we have to eliminate from the household. And for some people, they're probably still hanging on because of that abundance. It takes an abun- dance of the Word of God to live. If that's the way God directs it, if He wants us to keep throwing classes at people every month until they get the idea that this is what it takes to live abundantly with their own discipline, then I'll keep throwing the classes at them every month. I got a lot of health and vitality most of the time. It takes an abundance of the truth to live abun- dantly. It takes a daily abundance of the truth, where you love it so much that's what you want to think about when you have time to think about it in the midst of your responsibilities. That's a requirement, not optional equipment. And as the world waxes worse and worse, we have to wax better and better or we lose. Whatever "good spirituality" was 10, 12, 15 years ago won't cut it today in my life. I would lose. I could not keep up with what I do and the challenges if I wasn't better with the Word and put more of the Word of God through my mind in a day than I did 10, 12 years ago. And it's not a time question, but more of a quality of thought, depth of thought. And what are you thinking about when you have time to put something through your mind on the Word of God? I can process more Word of God through my mind now than I could ever do before. I can get something done. This "ten" thing has answered so many things for me, and in about a two-minute period this morning I found that. And all of a sudden floods of understanding --it clicks. I can process more Word through my mind now than ever. That is progress; a way to explain and define "permeate, saturate, dominate."

    We haven't gotten beyond verse 27, but boy, murmuring against the present truth is sin. It's not having an honest question where you want to understand something better. You can tell the difference. A belligerence is sin. That's cause for spiritual leprosy. That's a weak point on your x-ray.

    I'm not sure but that the space of grace is over with that we've talked about from Nehemiah a few months ago--a space of grace for people to get their lives in order where we can move to the next plateau. I'm not so sure that's not over with. I think Placements we'll know. Obviously in certain cases it is, as they've proven themselves unworthy, and their fruit has proven evil and corrupt and putrid like in Ephesians. That's what "no corrupt communication" is--putrid fruit. But I believe we got to reach this point at some point. I don't think we can keep biding our time and treading water. In releasing The Way of Abundance and Power, I got to have Corps that I know are Corps and Staff that we know are Staff. Not to say there might not be some failures at times, but it should be more isolated. It shouldn't be in such patterns. And again, that's more of a spiritual evaluation than a numeric. Because when you have patterns of copout going on, it takes so much out us. It's just a kick in the gut. Spiritually, every time that happens it's such a recovery. You have to stay in top spiritual condition, which to me includes the physical and the mental obviously to withstand these hits. Like Dr. Wierwille used to say, you should be able to recover from any hit within a 24-hour period. Most of the time I don't need that long before I'm back up teaching, confronting, making decisions, dealing with things. But at times these things just numb you, they hit you so hard. It's like you have to initiate a healing process. You can't be there in the fast lane of the outreach of the ministry making good decisions because you've taken such a punch again.

    That's a good example in sports. The quicker someone can recover from a blow, the better they are. In the Masters yesterday, Norman is leading and he comes to the 12th hole, which is the toughest par 3 in tournament golf. It's only 140 yards but it's treacherous. It looks like the area of a postage stamp with water in front and woods behind with a trap between the water and the front of the green. It's a hard green. It makes all the top pros' knees shake, especially on Saturday and Sunday when the tournament is on the line. Years ago, Tom Wyskoff was leading the Masters and comes to the 12th hole and makes a 9. He hit 4 balls in the water. Even the best players can turn into duffers on that hole. It's so visually intimidating besides being so difficult. So Greg Norman walks up there and hits his ball in the water. And that was a real critical turning point, because now you have to take a penalty stroke and lay it out and hit. So he's nervous, upset. He has at that time a 5-stroke lead but it could dissipate in one hole. But Norman hits a great approach to within 8 feet of the pin, and an 8-foot putt is still tough, especially at Augusta, which has the toughest greens in the world. He walks in there and knocks it right in the center of the cup. Talk about recovering from a blow--he got out of there with a bogie so he only loses one stroke. And the announcer, Ken Ventura, says "He feels like he just got a reprieve from jail there!" Sure enough, next hole he blasts his drive right down the middle. Hits it on two putts for a birdie. But his recovery from the blow was so quick, so immediate. And I think that's where we get. Some of these things we go through could knock people out for a week or two as far as emotionally, even physically. It does affect your physical body.

    This "standing in the gap" stuff is not just poetic language. When you really stand in the gap between the adversary and hurting people that you're responsible for, it affects your physical body. So Corps Principle #3 is just as vital as Corps Principle #1, because if you break down on #3, there's nothing left to use in #1 or #2 or #5 or #4. When there's no other explanation, I'll wake up in the morning and be sore all over and it isn't from physical exercise or being out of shape, but because of the spiritual attacks that I've been standing against. It starts with the intensity of the mind required. Then the intensity of thought and all the chemicals that have to be energized throughout your whole body. It's all intertwined--body, soul, spirit. So the intensity of the concentration required to make good decisions, to recover from attack, to make sure I'm doing everything I can to protect our household from spiritual infiltration first; after that other types of hurt. If nothing else, the tenseness that it puts your body through is almost like pumping weights and running a 400-meter sprint. You just feel it the next day. Even top-conditioned athletes after their most intense competitions are sore. Spiritually, no one's ever taken the time to document what it puts your body through. So these admonitions to the Corps to get their bodies in control. Those who've copped out and are puffing cigarettes are saying I'm a Pharisee; ministry is legalistic because I've told people to quit smoking. Smoking has nothing to do with how spiritual you are until God makes it a commandment in the present truth of that day. The guidance in our day is to get our Corps in the best shape possible to stand and withstand the pressure to truly stand in the gap, that's why it's a commandment of the Lord. Not because you're righteous or unrighteous for smoking a cigarette. Then there's other things in the physical category we could require to help our people, but to me that was an obvious one. Especially after it was Dr. Wierwille himself who initiated the standard in the in-residence Corps. The criticism would have been even louder if I would have initiated it, who've never smoked. They'd blame my Southern Baptist background, etc.

    Well, ten times He gave them and then the door shuts.

    "Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the LORD, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you."

    In other words, God heard every murmur, gripe, they made. Not just what they said, but what they did in their minds and how they let their minds go unchecked. We used to sing that song: "He is watching; do not dishonor Him." God knows your every thought. But most people don't care. They just go about their renegade business. Think it's their right to think like a savage.

    "Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me."

    Talking about longsuffering. The quality of life in the household certainly expressed in fruit of the spirit. Psalm 25:

    "Unto thee, O Lord, do I lift up my soul." The only way to lift up your soul is your thought patterns. Soul life, breath life, is your heart, mind.

    "O my God, I trust in thee: [he does think of God] let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me."

    That's a concern certainly if you're in leadership. At times you're deeply concerned about that. Why is it the adversary still seems to be able to attack us? He can attack, but don't let him triumph over us. Don't let him win.

    "Yea, let none that wait on thee be ashamed: let them be ashamed which transgress without cause.

    Show me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths.

    Lead me in thy truth, and teach me." There's a man who has God on his mind.

    Verse 9: "The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.

    All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

    For thy name's sake, O Lord, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.

    What man is he that [respects] the Lord? [only one way to respect the Lord--have to think about Him and do what the Word says] him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose."

    Now it says in Psalm 10:

    Verse 2: "The wicked in his pride doth persecute the [humble]: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.

    For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the Lord abhorreth."

    I get sick of hearing about these athletes "pursuing their dream." And they tell all these kids: "Don't forget your dream, pursue your dream." What a bunch of egotistical crap! Who cares about your dream? What's God's vision? What does God want? Your dream is all selfishness and ego. Tonya Hardy, who had that other girl assaulted, said "I have a dream, my Olympic dream." What a classic illustration of the egotism.

    What's God's dream, vision, heart, purpose? That's what we care about, because we're here to honor Him. We were formed, made, and created to honor Him. In that is a life which is more than abundant. That's why the Word has to stay the passion of your soul, even when emotionally it isn't there, it still has to stay the passion of your logic at least. It's God's vision--the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word in the Household. Those that sinned those ten times were not allowed to go in. God had to wait for their carcasses to dump in the wilderness.

    Verse 4: "The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts."

    Or as the literal reads in the margin: "or all his thoughts are there is no God." And for those who do not think the Word and line their judgments, values, and actions up with the Word, it's as if they are saying there is no God. That's what that is. The Word says "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." For these people who've been in the household, even Corps that have not personally lined their thoughts, conduct up with the Word, it's as if they're saying in their heart there is no God, because they ignore the Word. God is not in their thoughts. They are worthless and fit for the dunghill. Once I'm over the hurt, I couldn't give two cents for their lives. Just potential thorns in the flesh.

    I worked verse 3 and 4 about a month ago and wondered when I was going to get the opportunity to share them.

    Verse 5: Because God is not in all his thoughts, "His ways are always grievous."

    By their fruits they're known. Their actions are a direct extension of their thought life. Don't blame me if you screw up. It's your brain. It's we who take a stand who get attacked, as if we're unloving by pointing it out. That's counterfeit. So we got to fight the accuser off and if you know someone's taking a stand you ought to help, support him, back him up.

    "Thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them." They just blow; they don't move.

    "He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.

    His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud...."

    But the key is they don't think His Word and they pursue their own heart's desire--their selfish fantasies of success, or life--and that's all a lie, a contradiction of the Word of God and is out of alignment and harmony.

    So we go back to Numbers:

    Numbers 14:29: "Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; [this wilderness--pretty good] and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me." Adults were numbered to fight in the armies.

    Numbers 14:30: "Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

    But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in [See, those who would grow up and be Joshua and Caleb's army.], and they shall know the land which ye have despised." They've despised it because they haven't obeyed the Word.

    Numbers 14:32: "But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.

    And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.

    After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise [or what it means to alter my purpose, the consequences of it].

    Deuteronomy 4. I believe this applies directly. If we want to move into what we're describing figuratively as the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word in the Household, what's the key to that? Moses tells them how they got themselves ready to go in. Remember Deuteronomy is in the 40th year. Written to those who are ready to go in. The others have died off.

    Verse 1: "Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes [doctrines] and unto the judgments, [practices] which I teach you, [that's the root lamad, which "disciple" comes from] for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you."

    Now stop a minute. So what's the whole key to them being able to go in and possess the land? Do the Word! Keep the commandments! That's why we have to be so strong, adamant. We that have had access to this Word so much, do the Word. We have to be strong in that. Or else we're not going to go in and claim the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word in the Household. It'll always be laced with weakness which always deteriorates strength. Because weakness is either laying the groundwork for or is a living spirit cause that deteriorates. It never leaves you alone; it attacks. Weakness is not passive. It is active. It attacks, eats, deteriorates. So it must be eliminated. The causes have to be taken out, just like the cavity in the tooth. You can't just ignore it. Pretty soon it takes your whole mouth and rots the bone system of your mouth out. Any weakness won't stop until it kills you. Like Dr. Wierwille taught, a splinter could kill you if the body wasn't focused to attack it. Any contamination in the physical body could lead to death if it isn't checked. That's why we're called the Body of Christ in I Corinthians 12. Any spirit contamination that is allowed to go unchecked can eventually cave the whole thing in. So there's no gray area here. We either do it or we lose it. We either stand for the truth, demand the truth so the majority of our household is sanctified and purified and functioning so then we do have the room, or the space of grace and mercy to bring up the young, immature; give them ample oppor- tunity to grow like we've had. But for the majority of us, we have to live at these levels. And we can't put up with that contamination. First it's a personal decision. But this is how even Israel was to prepare to go in and militarily conquer foreign lands--was to do the commandments. That was their greatest preparation.

    I got a sweet letter from a teenage girl who was coming in the Family Corps asking what she could do to prepare. And do you have horses? I wrote her back yesterday and said the best thing you could do is love God and His Word. That allows you to adapt to anything. What I wrote was I'm glad to see you love God and His Word, because it was a beautiful letter. I sent the letter to Bev Mosqueda so she could answer her specific questions. I suggested to Bev that they have the Junior and Mini Corps write the incoming Junior and Mini Corps to encourage them and bless them. It was a sweet letter from this girl.

    You know, "possess the land" means claim it. Take charge. It's yours. Use it. How do you prepare yourself to claim and use and take charge of what God's made available? Hearken unto the statutes and judgments that are taught you to do them that you may live and go in and claim what is yours to enjoy: the fruit of the spirit; the experiential reality of love, joy, peace, long- suffering, goodness, etc. But it's that decision to the truth, or are we going to be like a fool that acts like there is no God; and just refuse to personally and intimately line my own thoughts, judgments, decisions, opinions, emotions up with the Word of God.

    About emotions and not letting them run you: We don't mean that it's wrong to have emotions. We mean that what becomes wrong is to allow that emotion to become a state of mind and then that state of mind colors and valances and sets the values to all your decisions. Then you're wrong. And that's so often what happens to people that become adamantly adamant when they're confronted. It shocks them because they've been so stupid. They might become embar- rassed because they're confronted in front of two or three or the Church. And so they take that attitude of shock and embarrassment and then they turn it into anger. And that becomes not just an emotion that they get hit with that they should deal with and get rid of before they make any decisions, but that becomes their mental state. And when an emotion becomes a chronic mental state, you're talking pretty much possession. Because the human mind and body is not made to maintain emotional states. Anger eventually dissipates. Circumstantial hilarity eventually dis- sipates. When an emotion becomes a state of mind, you're in deep doo doo by your own willingness. And they want to hang on to their hurt, anger, embarrassment as a state of mind--you got to have help to maintain that intensity, and that's spirit.

    I read a letter yesterday from an Alumni Corps. She said she was initially angry and embarrassed when she went alumni, but as she thought it through, she realized she wasn't at that level of ability, and she's been more blessed than ever. Thanked me for allowing her the privilege to take the Intermediate Class. She could have let that anger and embarrassment become her mental state. Then she could have become indignant and cut herself off if the household is healthy. If unhealthy, that kind of thing is normal. I don't want that. God doesn't want that. I won't allow it. Every emotion should be fleeting.

    Like two days ago, two boys called Tim "Wayfer," and Donna and I were so upset because he was so hurt. Boys, when they get pushed in a corner, that's what they resolve back to. We were so angry. I was ready to start a war. This happened Friday before the open house concert. I was ready to boycott the open house. But I cooled down and reasoned it through. It would have caused more harm than good. But emotionally, that's what I wanted to do. But there's no way you can win that way. Now if it was revelation I would do that. But I knew it was an emotional reaction. And God provided some wonderful things. Tim called one of the boys and they got it settled. And the boy backed off. Donna has again written a letter to the principal asking what else to do. And we gave some suggestions about recess time. That prejudice goes back years and you're not going to change it. We haven't had this come up in months. After Word in Business, people copped out, back went out on me, then this--it was really taxing. But I don't think it was much over 20 minutes and I was pretty much over it. Donna was over it--she immediately had to go to a meeting. That's what I mean by recovering from the blow. I went through my thoughts and reasoned it through. Now if God wants me to do something and I'm at peace and rest in my heart, then it's spiritual, and God will back us up. I want to do what's right. I don't want to stir up more hatred. I believe it happens to our kids because of who I am and who Donna is and the adversary will always pick there first. I don't like it; I hate it and despise it. At times I get very angry, but I vent my heart to God. I thought of II Corinthians 12. Paul thought the same way about the thorns in the flesh: "I besought you three times to kick their foot, Lord." God just says "My grace is sufficient for thee." It's a chronic state of the adversary's realm that there's going to be thorns in the flesh. Wednesday night I confronted the Corps that if you're afraid for your children, that's going to cop out your ministry; that's an idol. But these boys open up to spirits and the viciousness of the spirit realm works through them. So they need more supervision over these boys at recess. Told Donna to suggest sending out another high school kid to referee. It all started because they disputed a game call. The spirits have to start it somewhere. If you can keep from starting it, then you can avoid them being able to function. Everyone knows that age group argues. Certain age groups and genders are more vulnerable. So don't let it start.

    So I felt guilty about not going to the open house. But Leah knows I make spiritual decisions. I knew if I went I would be tempted to start a ruckus. Donna suggested I stay home and she'd get Rosalie to go. That gave me some peace. I knew Tim and Leah understood. I knew it would hurt the ministry if I went. I asked Rev. Linder to stay close to Donna and Rosalie. I knew it would not be right--I can't fight my son's fight. I have to help spiritually so he would have an even playing field--an opportunity to stand. Because if I get involved it would become a feud and get out of control. But I was in a vulnerable position. So I was at peace. And I understood Leah really distinguished herself there. It was an anatomy of a decision in our lives. It was right I didn't go, because that little kid sat just ten feet away. If I'd been there, I would've fumed. I would've had to recover for a few more hours--it would've set me back.

    I cannot be in a high state of emotional upheaval and be able to think in depth. You can't do that. That's why you got to get on stuff when it comes up so it doesn't fester to some soap opera emotional-type state. You have to get over negative emotions quickly. You got to use the positive emotions to think soundly. Remember Peter's emotional state of happiness almost led him to baptizing those people. But "then I remembered the words of the Lord Jesus," remember? Emotions always should be fleeting. Sometimes you'd like for them to last. If you're angry for a good reason, it feels good; happy, etc. Emotions are fleeting. Can't be in a state of emotional upheaval constantly or chronically, or you cannot think the Word, make sound spiritual decisions.

    I had to admit it made perfect sense that the adversary would attack my son. He's so ....ed off that we kicked his foot at Word in Business. I taught so much depth of Word. We're sending those teachings out, we're running the Advanced Class Grad Weekends; he's got to be mad as hell. So it just makes sense he would attack through my children, who are the closest thing to my heart. I'd rather they take me on than attack my children or my wife. But they don't do that. So even as I'm angry, all these logical thoughts are there. That's an example of the Word prevailing. And the emotions were fleeting. I did not stay angry. But to get over the emotion before it was allowed to get into a danger zone of wrong decisions--that's what you have to protect against. That's what I mean when I say control your emotions, understand? It's not wrong to have them, be hurt, embarrassed, etc. But where does it go from there? You have to maintain a spiritual equilibrium, mental sobriety, and you can't live in a state of emotional upheaval. People try to live that way and they get contaminated. You can't do it at any level. Whether it's a positive or negative emotional state. You have to have the Word of God in your mind, which requires in-depth thinking. You cannot think in depth when you're in an agitated emotional state.

    So the way they prepared themselves to go into the Promised Land was to hearken to the statutes and the judgments and do them and live them that they might claim what was rightfully theirs.

    And let's just close with Galatians 5 again. So I got through about a tenth of what I'd prepared. We got room for more Staff Meetings.

    Galatians 5:22: "But the fruit" indicates quality of life. And it's the fruit of the gift in manifestation. And the gift in manifestation has to work in a pure, sanctified mind set and heart. It can't be a carnal mind that's enmity against God if you expect the manifestations to work.

    "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy [second], peace, [completeness] longsuffering [horizontal level], gentleness [by grace], goodness [sixth, and then] faith, [is faithfulness. Which is solidarity, steadfastness.]

    That's the seventh one listed. That's what you have to expect in the household to have a genuine, divine perfection--faithfulness to hearken unto the statutes and judgments and do them.

    And then "meekness" is the eighth one. Meekness is always a new beginning, no matter how you've messed up. There's two reactions to these confrontations: humility or indignancy, adamancy. There's no gray area. Which is ok with me. Let's find out who really wants to stand; who's really a disciple and who isn't.

    Meekness and finally temperance, which is really intriguing. Temperance is self-control. That's the ninth one--finality, complete completeness, 3 x 3. The result of all this is self-control in all phases of life. The body holds the same relationship to reason as reason does to the spirit. That's what it means to go in and possess the land--manage it, control it, utilize it for what it's there for. The ninth fruit of the spirit--makes tremendous depth of sense here.

    Then "against such there is no law." It means the Word of God is not violated. When these qualities of life are there based on the conditions we've talked about, no part of the Word has been violated. The Word does not stand against these qualities of life. You can't violate any aspect of the Word if you expect these nine qualities to function in your life. You have to do the Word to manifest these nine fruit of the spirit. I think it's the figure antimeria. It says it in the opposite way to add emphasis. People have used it as an excuse--just manifest the fruit and you don't need the law. Not what it means. It means to not manifest it is against the Word, the law, the standard. You have to do the truth to bring these things to pass.

    LEAD 249 heads out next week. We'll believe for them to have as great a time as the first group. Ed, Paul, Corps listening: I know spiritually that we should not allow the Corps to hitchhike back from Gunnison. Things are too treacherous; stirred up too deeply; we have hurt the adversary so badly. It would be a breach of spiritual protection to hitchhike. Ed, I would recommend you do that map reading challenge.

    Dr. Wierwille said the greatest reason to have the Corps hitchhike is all the witnessing they did. Well, the Word's over the world. And I'll guarantee you just because people could hitchhike did not guarantee they'd stand. So we are not sacrificing the integrity of LEAD in our day and time.

    Thanks a lot. Love you all. Bless you. "



    Thanks! Yes, seems like I've read that or read it somewhere, most of it reads very familiar and I've heard versions of what would be some of it, from different people. 

    Craig seems to have moved very very quickly from what it seems he said was God's revelation to him to dealing with the blowback and breaks in ranks that was going on and sure to continue. 

    So that covers a lot of that, and I appreciate you doing that, so to bring it to the top - although I guess I'm kind of going sideways and south on the original topic, so sorry for that - but 

    I'll toss in what I get back from this other source as it comes to me. 

    So I can say I understand how "WOW" came down  the pike, as I was there for it and had my personal ownership of my participation in that idea, that vision. The most common definition was an active Twig home fellowship in every community in every city, state, country, around the world. So a city like New York might have 5 or 50, a city like Novato might have 2, etc. etc. But it was always a relatively dense sub population in any city, even just "one" wasn't considered a success "back in the day", although I think that was retooled as time went on. 

    And I think Craig's shift to "Prevailing Word" was a puff cloud because he has to measure against the previous goal of "WOW" - so by that time he could probably say whatever he wanted, VPW could do the same thing. 

    Now - getting from Craig's re invention exercise BACK or AWAY from it to whatever  it is they're doing now - I guess then they just needed to say "we're doing this now" and that was it. There must have been a strong under current against Craig by that time. And that's something I heard from some that left after that - I heard from one guy that said "At least I got to see Craig get what was coming to him!"...... By that time they must have been pretty beat up mentally and emotionally. Yikes, not a pretty picture. 

  15. 1 hour ago, skyrider said:


    Okay, okay........I'll give it a shot, but it might be more than 25 words.   :spy:

    As I remember it..........October 1995, martindale made the statement that "the word was over the world" on a corps night and then, had John Reynolds come forward.  At that time, Reynolds was newly-installed on the Board of Trustees as Secretary-Treasurer.  Don Wierwille's health was failing and Rosalie was stepping into the Vice President slot.  And, Howard was replaced by Reynolds.  Anywho........since Reynolds had been in the International Outreach Department for years (before a short stint as Region guy in Arkansas), martindale assigned him to come forward and give the "explanation."

    Reynolds spent about 20 minutes adding all the necessary ministry jargon and Dr. Wierwille's vision of "word over the world."  Citing some statistics, cities, countries, continents and filler-crapola........he rambled on.  Did it make sense?  No.  But then, who ever in wierwille's ministry ever tried to explain this mission anyways?

    Anywho.......after Reynolds finished, martindale stepped forward and commenced with the "new mission" of the prevailing word.  Another hour and a half, the corps meeting was over.  New slogans.  New terminology.  The lexicon of buzzwords that constantly changed in twi was refreshed......after ANOTHER corps night.  Most likely.......martindale was laying the groundwork for his new class series:  The Way of Abundance and Power.  Out with the old, in with the new.  Times were rapidly changing.

    A day or so later.......some corps were dissenting.  They strongly believed that Dr. Wierwille's vision of "word over the world" was NOT complete.  These murmuring reached martindale's ears in a hurry........and those corps [2 or 3 couples] were purged.  Dropped from Active Corps.  Door slam !!

    Message Received:  You always know who rules over you by observing who it is that you are not allowed to question.

    From my standpoint..........I had a full plate of responsibilities as a Limb Coordinator at the time and faxes pouring in daily.  If someone wanted to tweak the "mission statement" of twi, then so be it.  To me, it was martindale's attempt to polish the old marketing slogan with something else to make it shine.  No reason to bunch my boxer shorts.




    1 hour ago, skyrider said:


    Okay, okay........I'll give it a shot, but it might be more than 25 words.   :spy:

    As I remember it..........October 1995, martindale made the statement that "the word was over the world" on a corps night and then, had John Reynolds come forward.  At that time, Reynolds was newly-installed on the Board of Trustees as Secretary-Treasurer.  Don Wierwille's health was failing and Rosalie was stepping into the Vice President slot.  And, Howard was replaced by Reynolds.  Anywho........since Reynolds had been in the International Outreach Department for years (before a short stint as Region guy in Arkansas), martindale assigned him to come forward and give the "explanation."

    Reynolds spent about 20 minutes adding all the necessary ministry jargon and Dr. Wierwille's vision of "word over the world."  Citing some statistics, cities, countries, continents and filler-crapola........he rambled on.  Did it make sense?  No.  But then, who ever in wierwille's ministry ever tried to explain this mission anyways?

    Anywho.......after Reynolds finished, martindale stepped forward and commenced with the "new mission" of the prevailing word.  Another hour and a half, the corps meeting was over.  New slogans.  New terminology.  The lexicon of buzzwords that constantly changed in twi was refreshed......after ANOTHER corps night.  Most likely.......martindale was laying the groundwork for his new class series:  The Way of Abundance and Power.  Out with the old, in with the new.  Times were rapidly changing.

    A day or so later.......some corps were dissenting.  They strongly believed that Dr. Wierwille's vision of "word over the world" was NOT complete.  These murmuring reached martindale's ears in a hurry........and those corps [2 or 3 couples] were purged.  Dropped from Active Corps.  Door slam !!

    Message Received:  You always know who rules over you by observing who it is that you are not allowed to question.

    From my standpoint..........I had a full plate of responsibilities as a Limb Coordinator at the time and faxes pouring in daily.  If someone wanted to tweak the "mission statement" of twi, then so be it.  To me, it was martindale's attempt to polish the old marketing slogan with something else to make it shine.  No reason to bunch my boxer shorts.



    Thanks! That mirrors what I"ve heard before, the night Craig and Reynolds covered it. There's a bit of speed bump in the narrative but it may be that he moved from the old to the new so quickly - after gestating all the disruption and dissension in the Way Corps for so many years there. So he must have decided to move quickly and decisively, cut losses and keep it going. Thanks, I appreciate that. 


    "Word over the World" was something that was very clear to me, so we probably differ in how we're processing it all. From the earliest fellowships I went to in California in 1968,  to the time I first met Donnie Fugit in California when he came out to visit with a few people from Kansas,, to going cross country in 1971 and visiting several locations where there were fellowships, to what I did with fellowship myself in California in Oakland, to "going WOW" in the 1972"B" wave, to then going into the Corps....my previous conversations with Dr. Weirwille were about the Word of God and the message of salvation and what we were doing to extend that kind of work using music, in California. Within those first couple years I had become certain beyond any doubt that the things I was seeing and being a part of were real, unadulterated miraculous grace in action. So I was convinced, and as PFAL became a part of that it broadened out considerably. 

    Going into the 4th Corps was something he and I talked about - my wife and I had applied to the 3rd Corps but it was a tight fit and he suggested that several others musicians were coming into the 4th Corps and that would be where he was hoping something could get going. There was a lot involved in these decisions for my wife and I - and I was very young - but at the center of it all was reaching others with the message of the new birth in Christ and the teaching of the "more than abundant life", manifesting God's spirit and "walking on the Word" as taught in PFAL. This had taken off in California and was doing so across the country. One of the things we - some of us anyway - in that early effort of Way Productions cared deeply about was reaching others through the ministry of "music" and one on one preaching and pastoring. My original experience and relative success with music was by working in the public market, not the gospel or religious market. So I had a fairly young but clear idea of what music was and it's role in WOW, and the idea of reaching every person through the local neighborhood fellowship effort - ie "fellowship" and each one reaching another one - was understood to be doable. That's why I was willing to travel across the country and slowly but surely try to be part of doing that. 

    We used to have a joke that one of us in JN came up with when we talked about "WOW" - we pictured what it would be like if "it" ever happened, that there'd be some great party, beer and Drambuie would flow and VPW would have a "We did it!" t-shirt on and it would be at some ROA 2000 or something - I'm sure I didn't think it would take any longer than 25 years or so....and it was just a joke, but I did have a somewhat youthful vision that while it might not happen the way I thought it would - I wanted to aim big and miss small and I was going for it, as unrealistic as might seem.

    I have an elderly family relative who knows a very little about what we did and he likes to smile and tell people that my wife and I - "got married and went together....to save the world, they were going to change the world!".....I told him once that I didn't come close - and he grabbed my wrist and shook it and told me NO! You changed yourself and you tried to help others, I know that and you did that for sure..." Every once in s awhile I run across someone from 30 - 40 years ago who tells me how they're lives have gone and I'm thrilled to have been a part of it, big or small. 

    I have to admit that I could never make that journey from where I started to the follow along with where Craig took it - not that I'm smarter or better .... well, smarter maybe sure, maybe - but that may be because I'd always had a personal vision and process I was involved in trying to do and to live. Not always successfully, by any means, but working at. So perhaps it was different for others, they'd have to speak to that themselves. 





  16. Just now, waysider said:

    Whew! That's a relief. Making sense of that is just about as futile as putting windshield wipers on a cat's butt.

    True. But I'm starting to get the impression that either no one here now knows exactly or if they do there's not a lot of detail around it. I put a feeler out to someone who would, to see if they could explain it in 25 words or less and if they can't, then I'll post back here that indeed, those wipers are about as good as it's going to get. 

  17. On 4/13/2020 at 9:58 PM, Rocky said:

    Totally! Gives the audience (viewer) a greater sense that they are REAL people, in many ways just like us. I've been very much enjoying Colbert and Seth Meyers especially. Even better when they include their young children. Like Jimmy Fallon did in one vid I watched last night... and Meyers two sons were there at the end of his vid this evening. 

    Yeh, I record Fallon, stay up a lot and catch him too. He's a kick at home. 

    • Upvote 1

  18. On 4/13/2020 at 9:25 AM, Twinky said:

    They are still sending out "Way Disciples"?  Must be even more interesting living with a bunch of strangers - and having to "witness" to people from 6ft away.  What's the justification for driving from Georgia to Ohio? 

    Most churches are doing their services online by compilation of individual segments pre-recorded by the sermon-preacher, the prayer leader, the music group, and others involved.  Perhaps that's too technical for TWI.

    In, or at, what did JYdL say he'd failed?  

    On 4/14/2020 at 3:37 PM, skyrider said:


    The answer to your question.........it can be deduced by the application of Occam's razor.

    Once martindale pontificated that "word over the world" was complete.......he was exterminating the language and administration (wierwille's) of the past and ushering in the new "man of god and from on high."  No longer would there be WOW Ambassadors.....and the Rock of Ages was closing shop, too.  By the mid-1990s.......old wierwille tapes or music tapes were deemed "old wineskins" and could get you possessed!!!  Martindale mandated that the Way Household be SANCTIFIED.

    Way Disciples were enlightened with the present truth.

    Way Corps were taught The Way of Abundance and Power......heightened spirituality from the older version.

    Martindale, the doofus from Okieland, simply attached "Way" to "Disciples"...........duh.  He wanted to distance himself from wierwille's terms and old wineskins.  Surely, it wouldn't be right to call them "Disciples of Christ"........that description was already taken.  :biglaugh:  And besides, you can't build a cult following by adhering to what other church denominations are doing.

    But, my friend........Occam's razor clarifies to us that the simplest solution is the right solution to the question.  Everything in wierwille's path was to be built on the foundation of the WAY.........not the Bible, not the Scriptures.  The Way.  A term that held a double-meaning.  A deceptive and obscure meaning to a narcissist.  Wierwille skewered Kenyon's material on "The Way" and built his organization (pyramid) with just enough scripture verses to conceal his intended agenda, a jaded way.  And, the WAY corps.......indoctrinating the youth into an army of zealots and strict loyalists to twi-servitude, not God.

    Heck, throw in Way Builders......whydon'tcha.  LOL.

    Or, Way Productions.

    Now, maybe......all this stuff was just a marketing scheme to differentiate his organization for the surrounding churches.  Could be.  But looking back at all this......I see a serial plagiarist, predator and false teacher with ulterior motives.  The whole damn thing went belly-up shortly after the false teacher left the scene, feet first.

    And again, Occam's razor......the Scriptures indeed describe the seductive attributes of a seducer and false prophet.  Wierwille fits that description.


    I restated my question in another post here. I'm just looking for a simple answer as to what they said about what they were doing, but I get what you're saying. PEACE! 

  19. On 4/14/2020 at 1:14 PM, Twinky said:

    They moved onto "The Prevailing Word" after "Word Over the World."

    So clearly, it didn't prevail very successfully if they had to go back to "Word Over the World."

    Anyhow, they don't mean "Word Over the World" so much as "Way over the World."  In which, thanks be, they have failed dismally.  Somehow, "Way International over the World," honest though it may be, doesn't quite have the allure (?) of the catchphrase "Word over the World."


    So - I'm just trying to get the difference and how it would have been communicated. 

    Word Over the World meant go tell new people, start local fellowships, run classes - that I know and was part of.

    The Prevailing Word under Craig's reign was......an emphasis on those already in the Way's group.......? and less on getting "new peeps"?

    And then after Craig got fired it went ... back to .... a form of getting new people again? 


    I'm curious because of the "apparent' contradiction that those who were involved throughout all those periods would have had to deal with -

    one day, we're gettin' the Word Over the World, go tell someone new that hasn't heard.......then the next day, it's done, the Word Got Over The World and Now We Need to See It Prevail......then the next day, no, it still needs to prevail but we need to go back out and tell new people.........was there any additional explanation of how that was working? 

    Or did they just do it and not really explain it? 

    What I heard from a tape many years ago, that someone sent me a sound bite off of was of Craig teaching one night and saying he believed everyone in the world had had a chance to believe if they were going to believe - God had revealed to him that there was no longer a need to keep trying to reach new people, rather, start working on those who had..."believed"....ie, were grads of PFAL and that also  meant a reset, with a new "class", etc. 

     I'm not trying to make sense of it or even understand a biblical or philosophical basis for the flow of madness, just trying to clarify what happened and what was said about it. 

    Any insights are appreciated as I realize this will give me a new appreciation for what those who left recently bought into and supported. 


  20. 20 hours ago, penguin2 said:

    Hmm, depending on when the Georgia person went to teach, either all of Georgia or maybe that person's county, would have had a shelter in place order they would have violated. I don't think they had to get groceries in Ohio.  I am sure a nicely recorded teaching could have been done and uploaded and projected somehow in the auditorium or they could have protected their staff and just had someone already at HQ teach! And does this mean they were running  classes when groups larger than ten are not supposed to meet?


    They can't be transparent, they have to hide in the dark with all the skeletons in their closet.

    Why in the world would JY apologize? Does this mean he was just going to submit to Rosalie and try to stay in the Way???? Like Rosalie has helped the Word prevailed or lifted a finger to help anyone?  For some reason i am just really upset for the DeLis*s because I remember how helpful they were to me long ago!  

    This all reminds me of how it was going when we were there..and the over flow of people showing up for SNS - I remember some of the back trailers could dial in and get a SNS feed using...I think it was through the phones....? and say, while the Children's Fellowship was going, they could get the service there....does that ring a bell? {that was after they got electrical and water ran to them finally) 

    I remember some discussion around getting it to the trailers because in that era before the other buildings went up the BRC was getting packed upstairs and down and using the trailers made sense, especially during the winter months. There was push back though and it never got done on a universal scale at that time, but then it seems like I heard they eventually set it up so that the trailers had the capability to get the meetings held up in the BRC. 

    Ring any bells? 


  21. Gene

    On 4/13/2020 at 8:42 AM, rubina said:

    The Way's response to the coronavirus has been mixed. In the same announcement where Jean-Yves DeLisle said he was stepping down because he had failed he also announced that the 2020 Advanced Class would be canceled do to the coronavirus and later it was posted on the website that other events were cancelled. The last few sunday services have all been a bit interesting, they seemed to have gotten rid of live audiences and the choir. Two weeks ago the teacher drove all the way from Georgia to headquarters. Last week they announced that the Way Disciples had completed their Foundational Classes and had just held special fellowships in their areas and just yesterday the teacher was still telling "believers" to reach out to others with the Word. 

    Side question - this guy who just got the boot made me think....


    The Way had "Word Over the World" at one time.

    Then I read later that Craig Martindale decided that they'd achieved that and he set a different goal for the Way's efforts. 

    I never ready anywhere how that was dealt with after he was terminated....what are they doing now, or trying to do in regards to that goal?

    .......did the Way decide the Word wasn't over the world and went back to work on that? Or is it something else? 

    I also caught a shift into "discipleship"....did that factor into this? 

    I'm just curious how they explain away all of this, not so much if it's right or wrong, etc. 



  22. 9 hours ago, OldSkool said:

    DeLisle was booted by Rosalie for speaking up. I dont know what he spoke up about....i do know he was forced to admit publicly that he hasnt helped people. He was forced to leave hq and went to Montana.


    9 hours ago, skyrider said:

    The dirty, little secret that long-standing corps do NOT want to admit.......

    The "red thread" that runs through this corps posturing, hypocrisy and drivel.......

    Older Corps, with no marketable or tangible skills, are........UNEMPLOYABLE.

    • Arrogant corps leaders would NEVER find another job where fawning followers would obey their every command.
    • Unemployable --- in the sense of, finding a substantial career move away from twi with adulation for who they were.
    • Corps who went in-residence at age 20-24 and stayed faithful 12-15 yrs to twi, spent their youth in church/cult world.
    • The vast majority of corps in this swath of life......did NOT further their education or marketable skill sets.
    • Unless one became a salesperson or self-employed..........the pay scale (to raise a family) was rather bleak.
    • The smart ones.......like Lonnell J0hnson (5th corps) exited early and went forward to further his education (Phd).
    • The musicians and orchestra.......at least, had been honing their skills during their tenure in the cult.
    • Others........ushered at meetings or sat on their butt.

    Examples of this?  Sure, let's look at L. Craig Martindale.  He boasted that he could get a job with any Fortune 500 Company.  On several corps meetings, lcm confronted the corps on one level and then, boasted that he could be hired into any executive position in the country.  Well, after martindale was ousted by twi's lawyers for sexual predation.......what happened?  Leaving in the dead of night, no forwarding address, no public announcement or farewell......martindale re-surfaced in Toledo, Ohio.  He got a part-time job at Bally's fitness center.......and later, a low-level job at a UPS hub center.

    Other clergy, who left during those turbulent 1986/1987 years............sold fish from a small ice truck (traveling their circuit of customers).  They did this for several years UNTIL a better job came along or they attended night school and found better, gainful employment.

    Harve Plat!g was twi's vice-president around 2002-2004 (?)......and he exited.  Where?  To a job as a mid-manager in debt collection.

    John Anthony Rupp put his resume' on a public forum in February 2016.  Obviously, he was "fishing" for a better opportunity.  Rupp's resume' his leadership position in a "national/international company" and plenty of fluffy stuff.  No bites.  No offers.  Rupp was resigned to stay in the cult.

    There are low-level, starting jobs everywhere.........but a 40 year old corps grad (with wife and kids) finds it gut-wrenching to admit he "wasted" years of his youth.  In my opinion.... there are many who HANG ONTO TWI-NOSTALGIA because it feeds their need for self-importance or those years of adulation.

    • Now, consider a 55-65 year old corps grad.......who just exited twi in 2017.  No home.  No equity.  No social or community standing.  Very little retirement savings or investment.  Hundreds of corps leaving twi and disillusioned.  What now?  They need to face reality......and re-build. 
    • But wait......a new splinter leader arises from the ashes and gives them "hope."
    • Rather than face reality head-on.......it's more soothing to cleave to the nostalgia of the past (embrace the new splinter).
    • New splinter leaders get INSTANT gratification.  Position.  Perks.  Privilege.  Payment.
    • The 62 year old corps grad gets to teach once every 3-months for 25 minutes to the new group......yah.  Newfound self-importance. (sigh)

    Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter.......

    1. The strong, independent, educated person.......has plenty of options.  You see, he NEVER went into the corps where the undertow carried him far from shore.  Perhaps, he/she took pfal and then moved on......no big deal.  Life is full of classes and detours.  The justification for higher education opens all kinds of pathways, opportunities, advancements, family choices, wealth and security.  A life fulfilled.
    2. The follower, dependent on twi.........is led down a path of servitude.  He goes into the corps indoctrination program as wierwille admonished.  He is scolded for not being fully-committed.  He avoids higher education or opportunities that require night school or weekend training.  Forty (40) years later, he finds that everything he was led to believe is a lie.  The ministry is in shambles.  His life is in shambles.  What now?  He is unemployable.




    I think .... and I don't mean to insult any of them - but I really do think that those who chose to embed themselves in Way culture and work on the "business/ministry" side of the Way for all these years aren't real high achievers, they're not the "A" types they portray themselves out to be nor the real helpful servants that ministerial and pastors pursuits in the church tend to produce. 

    I knew several Corps who saw the exodus in the 80's as an opening up of higher level positions in the Way Tree and on staff and jumped at the chance to "go full time" - before LCM's disastrous buy-out of all the Way Corps grads to paid staff status. Those people were more than happy to step in and take over whatever the new program was going forward - and some of them were happy to be the hit-men and ball busters for any program requirements that Craig instituted. They want along as long as they could and I know a couple that are still onboard. And there's probably a lot more like that from what I've heard - perfectly happy to see Corps leave or get fired and then take their jobs over. 

    Guys like Harve - Ex-Mrs Weirwilles escort? ..... I first met him in '74 when he came into the Way farm for the "Word in Music" week conference we held, a Way Productions effort a la Summer School programs. He was a recent PFAL grad, and I can honestly say he went a different route, very deliberately, to get ahead in the Way. Not the sharpest knife, to be kind but he chose where to put his blade, so to speak. 

    All that Way-For stuff, that's not real high level achievement or great, strong character - it's Peter Principle stuff, the Dilbert mentality, but without any real professional, academic or usable talent or skill beyond doing whatever you're told to do and nothing more or less. 

    So yeah - they'll be unemployable to be sure but they'll find a way to make a buck or get along........which is what it was all about for some of them anyway.....there's a few in operations sides of things who know what they're doing, from what I can tell by my sources but on the business side of the Way - there's a lot of under achievers who are warming the bench and collecting a pay check, such as it is.

  23. On 4/11/2020 at 6:04 PM, T-Bone said:

    true - maybe because they're all being shellfish  ...I mean selfish


    ...don't give me those crusty looks over a bad pun - this isn’t my first Bisque-o-theque     ...conch you sea this whole thing has gone cray cray...it's the urchin-cy of our times, man!

    :biglaugh: Oh, the shifting bucket of sludge the Way puts out....bored of directors? How could they not be, reshuffling that deck's got to be getting pretty weird. 

    On this general topic I was chatting with someone about some other stuff, of companies and corporate cultures we'd been part of and I remembered how ungracious the Way Nash could be, as both an organization and a culture. 

    VP would bend over sideways to try and establish some kind of formal "this is how it's done in pro circles" protocol and get everyone hopping and skipping to get everything "right" and just - so......while keeping his good ol' boy outlaw preacher-on-a-Harley personae, pastor with a  dog and a yippidee ky yae tip to his JohnDeere cap. 

    And then he'd end up publicly ridiculing someone for the slightest mistake, perceived or real, and embarrassing everyone involved. 

    The man could take the simplest, most elegantly simple thing and make it a shit fest of blame and paranoia. 

    People who want to follow his every utterance today forget that or excuse it, with a "but he just did that because he loved us", or "he just cared about the Word so much he cared enough to" blah blah blah. They don't credit how much patience, love, care and intelligence it takes to maintain an even keel and patiently guide and support people we care about. 

    I've had to separate the Word, the life's lessons and the unadulterated bulls h it from each other. I guess I just get a kick out of the fact that they're still playing musical chairs back there. 


  24. It's like that old analogy of the bucket of crabs all trying to get out, "crab mentality ... a metaphor derived from a pattern of behavior noted in crabs when they are trapped in a bucket. While any one crab could easily escape, its efforts will be undermined by others, ensuring the group's collective demise." (wikipedia)

    Crab's on the barb-bee!


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