mudflaps

Years ago I heard he was out west some where.I always thought Troy was a really cool guy.

I'm sorry to hear about your father and the mental fight you had to endure after his passing.

I think the bottom line is the way does not know how to minister to people when bad things happen,they have nothing comforting to say,they throw out a few verses for you to chew on and say something like "The word will keep you strong".

They should be honest and admit they do not have all the answers to life.

I am dumb at this, do these 7 become Reverends, how does that work, is there a Reverend school, or is it, who one knows?

I once asked a branch coordinator how someone is chosen for ordination his reply was "God just tells the board of directors it's time to ordain so and so."

Looking back on that reply I think to myself when if ever has the bod heard anything from God and if they did I doubt they would listen.

You hit the nail on the head with this topic!

It is sick and twisted that when someone leaves the corporation of the way members that are still in are hoping bad stuff happens.

Yes that's right MEMBERS,I don't buy the freely avail bs.When I was in I honestly never really felt freedom.

So does it still p!$$ you innies off that God still loves us and prospers us after we leave the way?

I was thinking the other day that the board of dictators probably actually believe that they,not God are in charge,and therefore they tell God who to bless and prosper.

One of the first things I did was call December 25th what it really is called,CHRISTMAS! Not ho ho day,not happy household holiday,just good ole'CHRISTMAS.

Give money to people that have nothing to do with da way.

Shi!Canne$ all the class syllybusses.

Stopped saying "the word" when referring to the bible.

Instead of rushing home from work to get the house ready for fellowship I now rush home to sit down,relax and drink a few cold ones.

Be especially good to all,not just wayfers.

I think I have been out 6 or 7 years now.I have told many people that since leaving I finally feel like I am having the enjoyable life God intended people to have,my life has honestly never been better,health,relationships,finances,job,spiritually,everything every aspect of life is awesome!

I think we are all examples of "God restoring the years the locust has eaten."

Does anyone remember hearing this statement?

I must confess in the 90's I bought into this teaching and prayed for wayfers first and foremost.I look back at that and think "How could I have believed such a lie and been so unloving.

I like you and your wife's sense of humor oldskool.

It seems like whenever there is someone with more talent than a wayfer the talented individual is said to be evil and have spirits.

OMG!! That could be the best one I have ever heard!1 Thanks for posting that, I am still laughing.

Your welcome.

That one came straight from a branch coordinator.

Watching for the adversary,that's another wayfer statement I don't miss hearing.

I believe the bible and at times everyday life shows that the adversary strikes without cause A.K.A. "Life can be a real b!#%h sometimes".

I think it's just another way the b.o.d. shows their egotism,like twi is so on fire spiritually that the adversary has to pay special attention to them.

The following are some of my all time favorite b.s. comments I heard through the years about watching for the adversary,

"Avoid using the drive thru at restaurants,the drive thru is a front of the adversary to keep believers from going inside and moving the word".

"Plan the adversary out of your life".

"They did'nt take the class because they let the adversary get to them".

I once had a apprentice corpse person tell me "God tried to tell you but,you were'nt listening."The context of this double talk was usually when the apprentice corps person would forget one of his responsibilities.

Ten years of not once stepping up to the plate and being a true leader,hides in the shadows and makes a once a year public appearance.As far as I can tell she has not encouraged nor allowed any new research,same old blah,blah,blah rehearsed,regurgitated teachings.And rather than deal with so many of the issues that has caused so many to leave and continue leaving she chooses to ignore those issues or reply with a "Your just being negative attitude."I remember back in I believe it was 2004 she wanted feedback on why the sunday sleeping service attendance was so low,we gave honest feedback on the teachings being boring as one of the reasons why,her response was "Your just being negative."

Donna's position does not make alot of sense to me either,I'm sorry her marriage fell apart but,it takes two in a marriage and obviously something was not right in that marriage.I don't believe she should be in a leadership/decision maker position.

So to phrase this in other terms that the idiot bc can put together, "punishment is the standard". To go along wtih "leadership controlling follwers lives is the standard". They may not like the PR that this represents, yet the truth is undeniable

Thanks Chockfull,well put.Another one they used to say was "If you want a house why not just believe God for it".I'm thinking wow thanks for that great impartation of wisdom,God please give me the $90,000 I need for a house because I prefer to sit on my a$$ and do nothing and also the biblical research,teaching and fellowship ministry I freely avail myself to does not allow an individual to think for themselves.

RFR and DM debt policy is killing them and they still think it's biblical.

So I take it that twi still punishes wayfers who decide to buy a house?When I was in I referred to it as punishment and a bc said "It's not punishment it's a standard".The dictionary I have defines punishment as inflicting a penalty for an offense.Buy a house no class for you and no fellowship coordinating for you.When I was in there were so many people that were in their late 40's and 50's who had sold their house (under lcm's reign) and were so upset that they had done so,I would be too,most people are paying their house off by the time they are in their 40's and 50's and can sell it for a profit or whatever.twi is so decieved by their debt policy and so many other things.

I don't miss the following,

Being a part of something that treats people so unlovingly.

Fellowship Coordinator meetings.

Fellowship Coordinator weekly call ins to the Branch Coordinator,nothing like being teathered to a phone once a week.

Sitting through the Sunday Service.

Nosy people

Policies

Classes

I was flipping through channels last Sunday morning and a sunday service teaching was being broadcast on a local station.I watched about 5 minutes of the teaching,in my opinion same boring,scripted,lifeless and torture to sit through stuff.Seriously,they need to move on,quit being lazy and do something new.

When I was still doing a fellowship in my home I had a J**l O$***n book sandwiched in my book ends,my branch coordinator was at my house and happened to see the book,I could tell he did'nt like it his comment to me was "Yeah,that guy teaches alot of the stuff Dr. taught 40 years ago."In my opinion it's amusing to me how wayfers get so jealous of other churches success.

If there is a God. . . . why does He allow evil people to prosper? Why does He allow evil things to happen? Why doesn't He do something? Ever hear those questions asked today?

Well, they were also asked time and time again in the Old Testament.

The cry of the book of Habakkuk is "Where is the judgment of God?" especially against the Babylonians who were more wicked than the Judeans.

Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh and preach judgment because he didn't think they even deserved a warning.

The psalms are filled with David's plaintive cry of "How long oh Lord?"

Jeremiah was sent to a people who refused his whole life to listen to him. . . . no one repented under Jeremiah.

Noah preached for 120 years and no one believed him. He warned and warned.

Abraham played Let's Make a Deal with God over how many righteous for Sodom and Gomorrah . . . and yet they couldn't even find ten people. No one would listen.

Israel's kings just got progressively worse. . . . each one worse than all their predecessors combined. People suffered under these kings.

Adam and Eve had a murderer for a son and God gave him a mark so no one would touch him.

And between the recordings of the Old and New Testament there was a 400 year period of darkness when there was no voice of God.

So what was the question? Why does the God of the Old Testament seem wrathful and Jesus all about love in the New Testament? The servants of the OT complained God wasn't wrathful enough. Old Jonah sat on that hillside just waiting for God to take out the city of Nineveh. Never happened. He then complained to God. . . that God was too merciful!

Both God's love and wrath are revealed in the old and new testament. Every single account of Jesus with the Pharisees in a public setting was a scathing rebuke of God's judgment against them. Jesus consigned them to hell, called them children of the devil, and brood of vipers to mention a few terms. On the other hand, when He met privately with them, like Nicodemus, or Matthew's friends. . . . He lovingly accepted them.

Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the LORD your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and he relents from sending calamity. Joel 2:13

In the same way that God deals with His children in the NT He also dealt with Israel. . . . always giving them a chance to return to Him and repent. . .. sometimes to the extreme dismay of others like Jonah or David. God always delivered them from their trials once they had repented.

In the New Testament the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and punishes every son whom He receives. Why does any father?

Our days are numbered. . .it is always basically God who takes you out anyway. ..

Same God. . . Scripture says God is unchanging. Not every scripture tells the same thing about God, but it is all there in the OT and the NT.

For God's wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. . . . Why wrath?

" God's wrath is not an uncontrollable destructive emotion directed against those He dislikes. Wrath describes His just, holy response to sin and rebellion. From a human perspective shaped in a world permeated by sin and injustice, wrath and love are seen as polar opposites. In god, however there is no conflict between His great love and terrible wrath. Most human beings know that something is wrong with the world, and there is a deep longing that it be put right. (The multiplicity of religions and sects give a variety of explanations of why the world isn't as it should be. They also prescribe a variety of logically incompatible solutions to right the wrong.) Both God's love and His wrath are the guarantors that what is wrong will be put right. To deny or minimize God's wrath is to obscure what He revealed in the death of His son who bore God's wrath in our place."

And don't forget love. . . . Love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. There is an option. . .

[/quote

You might be interested in a book called "the true justice of a just god",if you have questions about this subject.

I don't know why ,but lately I have been thinking about the absurdity of that statement "plan the adversary out of your life".I used to hear it alot when I went to twi,don't get me wrong I think it's good to have a plan,but think about the arrogance of this statement.For example adversary shows up on a day you did not have him planned in your schedule,do you say "Hey you were'nt supposed to show up today!"Or what about if you get ill,"Hey I was not supposed to get sick till next month!" Or what about when a plant or animal gets sick or gets some type of disease,what did the plant or animal do to deserve that?Something evil?I just think this statement fosters alot of condemnation for people,as if they have done something to deserve adversity in their life.

I have spent some time looking over old STS / Way Mag and can say that now they just suck. After Cr@ig was booted around 2000 they came out with this cookie cutter approach for teaching in these two forums. From that time until I left TWI in 2008 STS / Way Mags have been just incredibly boring. Now, I have many doctrinal differences with TWI at this point. But at least teach me error in an excited, charismatic fashion...Im kidding about the error part. But these two teaching outlets were emasculated shortly after Ros/Don became pres. I mean in an obnoxious fashion. I mean it's lame, boring, dry white toast that barely gets into the scriptures at all. What's up with that?

To make matters worse they still coerce the Staff at HQ to attend the service. The handbook says Staff are encouraged to attend. In practice all of the departments take attendance and report it to their Pres. Cab. who report it to their director who report it to the pres. If you didn't go you need to report that you have made up the teaching before the following Sunday. Here's where it gets comical. Staff numbers have been thin around there for a few years. With all the Staff needed to put on an STS you can barely fill up the first three rows in the PWA. I mean the center section too. So they started scheduling areas from around the country to fill up the seats. There is usually a branch/limb scheduled to attend. It's pretty sad they have to make the Staff go and then bring people in from the Way of the USA to fill the seats. Still they only fill up about half the lower level. You only see the upper level open on Pentecost and Anniversary STS. Oh, the reason the Staff have to attend is because they "compete at the highest level of the spiritual competition". No kidding - that is in the staff handbook. Anyway, their product is so inspiring that they have to coerce and corral people in to hear it. One would think they would figure out how lame the presentation is and change it.

Welcome to the cafe Old Skool

I think I left in 05',sounds like nothing has changed.Whoever is calling the shots on the B.O.D. needs to realize you cannot resurrect the ministry of a dead man,great as VPW books were you can't base a whole ministry on them,time to change ,move on,but doubtful the B.O.D would admit they are steering their ministry in the wrong direction "to negative".

In the past three years, I've crossed paths with MANY twi followers in the coffeeshops and supermarkets of the city. Some of them will visit with me for a couple of minutes, some won't.

Several of the gung-ho corps that I've encountered, are NO LONGER corps.

Some of the twig coordinators NO LONGER run a fellowship in their home.

A couple of long-standing advanced class grads told me that they RARILY WITNESS anymore.

And to think.....this is a sampling of twi's followers that have crossed my path. Are you guys seeing this? I even crossed paths with an ex-corps guy who stated, "We stay out of their (bod) shix and they don't get involved in our shix."

There seems to be a huge DISCONNECT on the rise with twi's "followers." Maybe.......that's why twi's faithful rarily witness anymore???

skyrider

Since leaving twi I have ran into a couple people still involved,what's funny is one of them referred to my leaving as "no longer fellowshipping",I did not know an individual's "fellowshipping" hinged on whether or not you go to twi.Typical way speak/way brain.

It came up in another thread, so I thought to start this one new.

I also realize that TWI will probably not do it, but thought it would be fun anyhow... :) :)

But if they would......

I'D DOUBLE-DOG DARE TWI'S B.O.D. TO TAKE A 'SPIRITUAL OATH' ON JUST THEIR CORPS IF THEY ARE

IN ANY DEBT, IN ANY WAY OR FASHION, TO ANYONE....INCLUDING THEIR FAMILY & FRIENDS.....

I know one Corps couple who were honest enough to bring it up, and they were 'unanimously' dropped after decades of

faithful service. If they didn't bring it up, no one would have ever found out. They're glad they did now, and are living a

great life in service to God and prospering.

I wonder how many that are lurking and yet reading this are in the category of living dishonestly, with hidden debt? Personally,

I have no problem with responsible debt. But how can they say they are 'with' the BOD yet don't live clean in this category?

It's like Roman Catholic priests being secretly married, who tow the company line, but really believe in abortion, etc. What is their

rationalization for not coming clean? Fear & bondage?

Also, IF (and I've personally spoken to at least 3 Corps who were with hidden debt, and refuse to come clean) what I think

is happening, what would the B.O.D. do if they lost 33%+ of their leadership?? Corps or non-Corps? Would they re-think their

man-made punitive policy? Does the BOD actually want to know???

So, I dare them......take (as LCM called it) a 'spiritual oath' and make people come clean or lie to them. Maybe their 'eyes and ears

of the church' are perceptive enough to 'smoke 'em out.'

PS - Personally, I believe it is wise, especially in these economic times, to be as free from debt as possible. Still, its by choice.

Their no debt policy is such a legalistic joke,I can't believe what I read earlier about how if a debt is in someone else's name it is then o.k. by the way's standards,how can the B.O.D. honestly before God put this spin/loophole in their no debt policy and think they are being honest before God.I imagine they have probably taken some verse out of context to promote this part of the policy.I remember a few years ago being at a hfc mtg. (when I was still part of twi) the purpose of the meeting was to discuss how twi no debt policy was still in full force and nothing had changed about it,I spoke up at the meeting about my disagreement with their policy,I said I don't believe it is right to punish people who have debt (not allowing them to coordinate a fellowship etc.),the response I got back was that it is not punishment it is a ministry standard.I believe the majority of people in that meeting did not agree with the policy,but were afraid to speak up.In my opinion the no debt policy among alot of other things is a big reason the way cannot keep it's followers nor attract new people."Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them".

I got to thinking about Way Homes. I remember the thing about if you are a believer, you shouldn't live alone. It was suppose to be a real loving home with fun and healing etc etc. Wasn't what I thought at all. I went through a history of living with people in Way Homes. People I never met before, people I had no idea could I trust them, or what kinds of problems did they have? Was I safe. No thought given to it at all....just move in and start living together as a "family". It seemed like it was suppose to be instant happening, a family. My experience with that was not good most of the time. We had a coordinator who actually kind of dictated things, no discussion, no interaction. And it really took away my individuality. Seemed like we had to, were expected to, do whatever the house was gonna do, whether it be a movie, witnessing, etc etc. Maybe had one day what they called "off" to do your laundry and do what you wanted. But mostly we were to act as a happy, loving household. Not to say, I didn't have good moments, but that was just it, Moments. Sometimes Fleeting! I didn't enjoy any of it as I look back on it. Can't believe I just moved in with anyone, anywhere. Expectations seems high from the coordinators. And of course there was always to pressure of getting a class together, or working at the limb headquarters EVERY Sat it seemed and look at it as some great honor to do that.

I have lived alone for quite awhile now. I was really tired of living with people when I left TWI. And have lived alone since And loved it. Time for me, time to think, time to do what interests me....And why did they say it wasn't good to live alone??

What were your Way Home experiences like?? Just something I was thinking about.

I went out way disciple and lived with a married couple and another gentlemen (don't know if that counts as a way home).The way home was the worst thing about the way disciple experience.The married couple were apprentice corpse and had some major issues,they continually made false accusations directed at my roomate and I,they wanted to run the house as if a dictatorship,always wanting to be in control.I honestly cannot believe they were even allowed in the corpse program,but knowing what I know now it does not take much to get in the corpse program.They were also pretty lazy,they actually yelled at my roomate and I for not waking them up in the morning because the could not get their own dead a$$@s out of bed.My roomate on the other hand was and is an awesome guy,a friend for life and probably one of the main reasons I got through living in the way home.Anyway hope that helps.

With unemployment at 8.1%......and an economy in a tailspin, some are really in need of relief.

Of course, twi has socked away MILLIONS in investments, stocks, etc..........so they can ride out this storm for months or years (?) without devastating results. But what about their followers?

Will twi send relief to their "brethren" ???........since they claim to operate like the first century church. Or, will twi expect the local areas to pony-up the support......AND keep sending in their ABS ??

And, if so.......how can twi justify sidestepping the applications of 'godliness in action' while still claim to 'hold the truth?' Surely, twi is not going to just tell their people to "Believe God" ............are they?????

How will twi spin the following verse?

Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:

<_<

I have been wondering about that too.I hope I am wrong,but in my opinion the "relief" will come by way of the following.

1.The economy issue will be ignored since it is something negative.

2.Tell the people to "plan the adversary out of their lives".That one always makes me laugh,last I knew the adversary will strike without cause.

3.Condemnation

4.Brag about their debt free policy,as if it is the cure all to any financial problems.

5.Last but,not least and you said it best my friend tell em'"Just believe God."

And one more thing.I was at the Sunday service that followed the tragic events of 9-11,Rosie made an appearance at that service and basically just talked about how no twi people were harmed on 9-11,her uncompassionate,selfish and unkind words brought tears to my eyes.I thought to myself what about everyone else involved in that day.

That example reminds me of how they deal with adversity.

I am in a very serious relationship with someone in the way, and her father is very big into it. I have never really been religious or anything like that, but I was wondering if there was anything I should look out for. I attended a service with her once to see her father preach or whatever, but I had always thought church was weird, and I just knew something wasn't right with the way. What should I look out for?? Any concerns I should have?

When I left the way three years ago it was strongly encouraged to date "Within the household",as the way calls it,which basically means date people that go to the way.The other dating advice was to invite someone new to fellowship and see if he or she "turns on to the Word".In my opinion a few things you should look out for are the following,certain verses of the bible being used as a wedge against you to make you conform to what they want you to do,if this one is used on you it probably won't be done very blatantly,but subtility.Another would be one of the leaders wanting to meet with you guys,which would be ok,but usually the motive of the meeting is to get you more involved with the way,not a good motive for a minister helping a young couple.When I was in one of my good friends who had went to the way all his life got engaged to a girl who did not go to way functions on a regular basis,somehow the branch coordinator found out about the engagement and asked me if he could meet with them to "help",when I checked with my friend to see if he wanted to meet with him his answer was,"No,I've heard to many horror stories about leadership getting involved with people's relationships."If the current attendance of way functions is as low as when I went they may not bug you much with getting more involved because they don't want to scare you off.At this time that is about all I can think of to look out for,if I think of anymore I'll send it to you.One good thing to remember is they cannot make you do anything.