TheEvan

A-

92%

My European visitors are astounded by the proliferation of overt religious display over here: billboards, car stickers, large crosses and so on. Such would simply not be allowed in their counties. Period.

Watch closely, because Europe often represents our future...

John has no personal ax to grind. In his ministry he encountered ex-wayfers damaged by the the experience. His experiences ministering to them led to his website. John has proven himself to be anything but a one-track crusader. He's respectful, even-handed, consistent, and displays qualities foreign to the Way experience: the fruit of the Spirit.

Mark, that was quite clear. In no way did you "espouse" the law, as WearWord accused. I'd counsel you to save your breath.

Didn't vpw get the idea from BG Leonard? (Although Leonard view was a little different)

I think the Christadelphians have believed the same as Wierwille wrote.

http://www.christadelphian.org.uk/wcb/notrinit.html

Does twi have an explanation as to why the Bible mentions God as "Holy Spirit" sometimes?

Possibly. But if so, it was more like a seed or a doubt, because Wierwille was still trinitarian in the early 60's in the way mag. Leonard's doctrine of the Godhead, best I can figure, is closest to 'Oneness Pentecostal'. The phrase I remember from him is "there is only one God, and his name is Jesus".

Oblivion is my middle name.

I drank blood on my last trip to Africa. Me and my tapeworm greet you...but my tapeworm says no to the Jim Beam. Sorry.

My repeated experience has been that 'enlightened souls' that venture off into a one-horse crank are seriously deluded. They often find themselves incapable of full fellowship in a local congregation.

The delusion is that all heaven & earth somehow fit into their one-track box.

That's my impression of WearWord's 'law of liberty' crank.

Never mind.

That's a pretty strong delusion you're laboring under, WearWord. Enjoy.

The Evan

Law must exist within the mind in order for transgression of law to exist in the consciousness.

"Sin" is ONLY perceived as a transgression of a law.

For where there is no law there is also no sin consciousness.

So, would you say that where there is no law, there is no sin? Or to paraphrase you in another way, where there is no sinconsciousness there is no sin?

So this law is dead as the flesh is dead and the spirit is all that concerns us. In the recognition of this spirit is the perfection of it and this is how the law of liberty can grow and flourish in the mind.

Comment: You cannot have iniquity without law...

True

You cannot have sin without law.

Untrue

The spirit was lost by the ruling kingdoms of the world but God revealed his way of faith to those who believed.

This is why we have the faith of Jesus Christ.

Without this faith there can be no liberty.

Christ is "The Way" (to God) because he walked in liberty.

The "way of holiness" is the law of liberty and faith...

By faith Abraham... Faith is the red thread of Christ.

I'm sorry, but these statements don't make sense to me, biblically or theologically. I'm particularly distressed with your statement about Christ. Christ is the way to God because of who he is, first and foremost, and because of what He did for us...which is first and foremost His suffering and sacrifice.

WORD WOLF...WONDERFUL POST!!

Read it more carefully. The law of liberty is not contrasted with the law of Moses, it is contrasted with the 'law of sin in my members, ie, the law of sin & death.

All of us are free and in bondage, we simply choose our freedom & our bondage:

Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield

yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye

are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the

servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the

heart that form of doctrine which was delivered

you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became

the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of

the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded

your members servants to uncleanness and to

iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your

members servants to righteousness unto

holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye

were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things

whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of

those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and

become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto

holiness, and the end everlasting life.

To say one is 'free' or walks in liberty is, in itself, meaningless. Your choices give your liberty meaning.

What a devastating story. Thanks for sharing.

Wow, who is that guy? What a nut.

Good answer, Raf.

Incidentally, I met the Great ForeHead just 'afore he took Piffle. He was still a nice Baptist kid & (sometimes) youth leader. He only spoke nice and certainly no cussin'. His potty mouth came with his rise in the ranks.

What a jerk.

Paul contrasts this law with the law of sin & death in Rom. 7

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life

in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law

of sin and death.

The blood gets a bit wearing. High impact film. Though I've not heard anybody say so, I'm quite sure it's meant as his commentary on life issues including abortion & euthanasia...and what happens when a society succumbs to a culture of death.

At that point in Mayan culture they had become so corrupt and obsessed with human sacrifice they were ripe for complete disintegration...which is exactly what happened.

In retrospect I give it high marks for cinematography (amazing), for using non-actors so well, and so-so marks for the story line.

Overall a thumb up, with caveats.

Funny handle, WearWord. :) Welcome to the 'Spot.

Craig & Nanci

So, is it now The Invisible H. Dan?

(H for heretic)

I KNEW you were fit for the stake...hahahaha.

I would think most ex-twiers would score as suda & jj...at least those who are still Christian. You'll note my score reflects some points of uncertaintly about some of the finer details of trinitarian dogma. Nevertheless I have no problem affirming Christ as God or his pre-existence.

I've described my post way spiritual journey as my long, slow slide into orthodoxy. Half-joking, of course.

Not sure what it all means, but I am thefollowing. I think.

You are Chalcedon compliant. Congratulations, you're not a heretic. You believe that Jesus is truly God and truly man and like us in every respect, apart from sin. Officially approved in 451.

Chalcedon compliant

100%

Modalism

50%

Monarchianism

42%

Arianism

33%

Adoptionist

33%

Apollanarian

33%

Monophysitism

33%

Nestorianism

33%

Socinianism

25%

Pelagianism

0%

Docetism

0%

Gnosticism

0%

Donatism

0%

Albigensianism

0%

Gosh, that's a relief. I think

I can't remember, Chuck, are you two in Laconia? Such a beautiful area!

Once upon a time I was the way state leader for New Hampshire, back in the salad days. Such a lovely place. Did the LaCroix's ever migrate home to Laconia?

I heard Nashua has become a metropolis since I left in '76. Dang Bostonians!

How right you are, Mark.

Yeah, in my clumsy way I was trying to contrast the mythical 'power of believing' with the true source of all power, God Hisself. But now that you brought it up I can see the value in expressing things more clearly. Taken by itself I have the same reaction to the phrase as you.

"Believing" has no power whatsoever to alter circumstances outside of ourselves. However, what we believe does affect our attitude, courage and how we act about our circumstances.

Believing God's Word can and will release the power of God in a situation.

For the most part, telling a "mountain" in our lives to be gone won't budge. We built most of our own mountains ourselves. It is a lifelong work to, by the Holy Spirit, to tear down the stronghold that have been contructed in our lives. It is the presence of the Holy Spirit that gives us the effective weapons to tear down these strongholds.

My recollection is that they invited a number of old timers VP had mentioned in writing or in passing. Well, those still living. Can't rememebr who might have come.