notinKansasanymore

Praying.

Thank you very much! I've been in contact with Kelly now. Your help is appreciated.

I have to agree about Moms and sports. Two days ago, when our star basktball player got flipped by an unscrupulous Morgan State player, our guy just shook it off. The Morgan State player was ejected from the game. Our guy's older brother, also on the team, got back by scoring more points. But it was their MOM, in the stands, who really had to be calmed down. She was steamed.

By the way, here's the flip:

I don't think we can speak for all religions. I do think that we can speak for this one cult in Ohio.

I certainly would not presume to know much about the true nature of God based on anything that ever came out of Wierwille's mouth.

Couldn't a scam be started by an overzealous individual, who, in a sense, scams their own self? Did he really sit down one day and say "I'm gonna scam some people"? He got carried away, maybe?

I think that VPW knew that he was a socially awkward looser, who didn't like taking orders from the hierarchy of his denomination, and that he also wanted to figure out a way to cash in personally on the sexual revolution of the sixties. I DO think that he sat down to plan how to scam people. He simultaneously escaped from the oversight of his denomination and gained lots and lots of power among naiive, trusting teenagers with nubile bodies. I think that he was a very mean, very bad man. I think that he is rotting in his rotten grave, because he took advantage of people in the name of God. He was not a victim. He was the kind of devil for whom, if there is a special darkest corner of Hell, such a corner is reserved.

And that's the sugarcoated version of how I feel about that.

I feel for his family, because of the shameful way that he treated his precious wife, and because his family not only were scammed, but they are burdened with his name, and the lack of trust which is now associated with it. For instance, does anybody really care whether Grandson Victor's program out in the woods survives? People seem to generally assume that he's crooked right out of the gate, even though he may or may not be; this is his grandfather's legacy.

So. Yes, VPW set out to scam people. No, he wasn't a victim, any more than Hitler was a victim of the Holocaust. Yes, he'll burn in Hell.

Praying

Praying

Praying.

Every March 4th, I can still hear Walter say that line. He was so sweet and excited about it, too. I always thought that he was one of the nicest folks there.

There was a core group of folks, and I include Walter in it, along with people like Rhoda, who were just sweethearts.

I sometimes think that if everybody there had been as mean as Dr., we'd have seen through it long before we did, but if he fooled Walter and Rhoda, with their close associations to him, and their obvious devotion to trying to always do the right thing, I sometimes don't feel so unutterably stupid.

(((((Ron)))))

So sorry to hear of this.

love, niKa

One of the hardest things about leaving TWI was letting go of the tremedous spiritual arrogance. Rascal has mentioned this, and I agree with her.

But it wasn't just spiritual. There was also a racial arrogance, and a straight arrogance, and a pecking-order-among-the-members arrogance. We spent a lot of time patting ourselves on the back for being God's Chosen, while saying "but look how screwed up THOSE people OVER THERE are." During my time with TWI, I could not even step into a regular church without thinking that it was full of devil spirits.

That's pretty much the opposite of building the body of Christ.

It seems like the crazier it got, the more we bought into it. Perhaps that is the greatest warning lesson, as we look back. It's a study in group psychology. The people who perpetrated the Holocaust thought that they were doing the world a favor. If Wierwille could have lived forever, how deeply into the cesspool might some of us be right now?

Praying for my brother in Christ, John, and my sister in Christ, Elizabeth.

I was also there that night, in New Bremen. Joe Fair did an amazing job. The "gallon of apple wine" remarks from Weirwille were nuts.

Looking back, Wierwille's outbursts begin to remind me of an overtired toddler, screaming at whatever happens to be in front of him.

The fact that we didn't notice this similarity at the time was a clear symptom that we had our heads wedged where the apple wine don't shine.

Oops, sorry, Spray. Try this.

http://www.lmci.org/about.cfm

To me, Greasespot is more of a "Truth about TWI" website. If the truth is damning, that's TWI's problem.

Remember when they used to tell us, when we were trying to get people to take PFAL, simply to tell the people what PFAL had done for us? This is an extention of that. We are simply telling the truth about what TWI did for us. And to us.

Groucho, you may not get any answers from the men themselves, because their answering would amount to a public "outing" of their wives as victims of these abusers.

But men, those of you who see this, it wasn't your fault. We all drank the Kool-aid. Some paid a much higher price than others, and I am praying as I type for you and your precious wives. Victims and victims-by-proxy (the husbands) may still carry a heavy burden of shame, and I encourage you to speak to a professional counsellor, if need be. They are trained to get you to ask yourself the right questions for some healing.

These crimes were perpetrated by convincing the victims that to have sex with the "man of God" was serving God; the criminals may have escaped worldly justice, in most cases, but they cannot escape the Bema.

God says, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay."

(((((all of you, wives and husbands))))))

Does anyone know where they ended up, or how they are doing?

Hi, Tom!

Hey, everybody: Happy Valentine's Day!!

(((((you)))))

Good luck today! We're all pulling for you!

Seaspray, I just sent you a PM.

Excie, how's the job thing going? I am praying for you.

Great letter, Rascal.

(((((you)))))

But what will you do about the Texans who like Obama? The ones who were "less than happy" with W.? I am a 5th generation Texan, and I agree with the Dixie Chicks.

I also like Shiner, and can shoot a straight bullet. I think of fried okra as a delicacy, and sweet tea as a necessity. My daddy's given name, at birth, was "Junior." I have not one single Yankee in my ancestry; we checked. As soon as there was a South, that's where my folks were.

In sum, I think that I'm as much "Texas" as anybody breathing, and I am a HUGE Obama supporter.

Since one of the hallmarks of Texas is independant thought, what will you do with the Texans who are just pie-eyed happy with the recent election? Those of us doing flippety-flips of joy?

With our big hair, boots, and Jeeps?

Thanks, mchud11.

One thing that I forgot to mention was the lo-o-ng span of years before some very important dreams were realized.

I didn't even meet my husband until I was 38 years old. There were plenty of other opportunities, but I knew that they were not "it" for me. There were also two or three who were, for awhile, "the ones who got away." I read an article, about that time, which explained that I had a higher chance of getting caught in a terrorist attack than of finding a great husband, at that age. And children? That was supposed to be more and more impossible with each passing year, as well.

Somehow, things happened when they were supposed to, and when Mr.niKa and I finally met, there were no longer any at all who had "gotten away." We even had little ones with no significant trouble or special help, despite my having waited so long, and being almost 40 and almost 42 when they were born.

Maybe the moral of that story is that one must be stubborn with dreams, at times.

They are not "sure things," and they require courage.

Interesting question.

The biggest childhood dream that I can remember was to go to college. This was not typical for a girl from a small town in my part of Texas, in the mid-sixties. Later, when I was about thirteen, I once confided to my best friend that I had a dream to go to college. She was pretty surprised. "You can't go to college," she exclaimed, "unless you want to be a whore!" There were three of us who palled around together in Junior High; of the three, I am the only one who finished 9th grade.

I had finished my Freshman year at our hometown college when I got distracted into TWI, and thus began the maelstrom. After a dozen years out, I left TWI and finished school, in a different state. The fact that I'm now a professor is just plain sweet. I don't know about the "whore" thing; I suppose that depends upon one's environment. I learned much more about looseness in TWI than in my hometown, or in college either; that's for sure.

Other dreams came later, when I was a bit older. I wanted a wonderful husband and a good marriage, and wanted to have a lot of children. I wanted to see Paris, go to Disneyworld (don't laugh - remember, I am from the sticks), and go to Hawaii. Mr. niKa is (sounds trite, but I don't care) an amazing man, and the love of my life, and my favorite of any man I ever dated, ever, amen. That's saying something, because some of you Ministry guys were fabulous, wonderful gentlemen. I am the mom of two children, but we really have four, counting my steps. I count them completely; they're mine. Mr.niKa and I went to Disneyworld together, and loved it, the first year we were married. After my children were born, my in-laws kept the kids while we went to Paris; I spent three days in the Louvre. It was completely glorious. A couple of weeks ago, we got back from our second trip together to Hawaii.

I think that part of the key to living is never to stop dreaming. I did my old list; now there's a new list. We can never stop the dreaming thing; it's as important as the breathing thing. I'm pretty sure that some of the things on the new list will be impossible for me, but that's kind of how I felt about the old list. Having a diverse list makes me extra thankful for the wild things that I do occasionally get to check off.

To all of you: good luck with your dreams, no matter how impossible they may seem.