Edi

Quote - "I can't bear the thought of giving CES any money but I want the book". That cracked me up Too funny (in a good way) and thanks for the laugh today.

:( Wow, that's too bad to hear about VF. I thought he was one of the nicest MOG at HDQ back then. He was always encouraging us, was fair to us and stuck up for us when other leaders wanted to trash us. He really was like first level mgmt caught in between his people and the leaders and he really took a lot of hits for the people who were under him. I realize I never worked for him so I 'm not discounting what is being written by the others - I just never had that experience from him.

JAL was another example in the early (oh, I mean "ancient" Corps) to me in the early days. Whereas some of the Corps were arrogant and condenscending I never found that to be true of him. In the Corps I was his first twig leader and he was nothing but courteous, supportive and helpful to me. I find the things I've read here about him, how he treated Elizabeth and how he allowed the leaders in CES to treat him to be completely opposite of the JAL I knew back then.

May we all be forgiven for our past offenses. I think all of us who were leaders back then need to be forgiven by somebody and probably multitudes! If there is anybody out there I hurt I am VERY sorry and I apologize and ask you for forgiveness and hope I am forgiven.

I wonder if other past leaders ever think and say that. I hope so.

How funny Eagle - you think Corps 6-12 are the "early" years. That must make 1-5 the "ancient" years!!! I don't know by experience how bad it really got but I have read about how bad the later Corps were. I'm thankful I left at the beginning when it was just starting to go mean. I wouldn't have lasted long at all - I never was good at taking abuse.

I left the first time Craig was screaming in my face flinging spittle everywhere telling me I was dividing the family of God. I told him I thought he and all the other leaders were doing a mighty fine job of it all by themselves and I hardly thought I was the problem. He shut up at that one and I left and never looked back. I had taken many witnesses to talk to him about a leader who was openly teaching it was ok to have sex in the Way home and at the fellowships. Well NOW I understand why he didn't do anything.

I'm glad I got in when I did and I'm glad I left when I did. You can take the girl out of the Way Corps but you can't take the Way Corps out of the girl

(((((LInda Z)))))) Hello, it's so good to see you again too. It's been a long time since I've been on and I'm thankful Mr. Computer still recognized my name and let me in. I'll have to visit more often. Thanks for the hello.

another test

thank you but this is a test

John, I just want to know if you ever apologized to Elizabeth? If not please go do it. She deserves one.

hello

I was in 4th Corp and I went in because I believed that is where I could get the best training to be a good leader. My initial reason was because my husband wanted to go in. God taught me wonderful things in the Corps. And the things I learned in the Corps held me in good stead throughout all the rest of my life, especially in my jobs and the responsibilities that came after I left the ministry. Since then I have been in leadership positions and teaching positions all my life and the foundational lessons I learned in the Corps is what gave me the confidence and courage to do anything I wanted to attempt, ever did and still do to this day. I've never been sorry I went through it. And mine was a 4 year program. [/font]

I didn't get along with alot of the leaders because I felt like being a parent came before being a Corps person. I had to fight for all the time I spent with my son and learn to fight is exactly what I did. I bucked leadership and many meetings with them but I didn't care if they kicked me out or not - I was still going to be with my son as much as I could. They didn't seem to understand that you can't raise a child on one hour a day. I learned that what you aren't afraid of losing can't control you so I didn't care if they kicked me out or not. They never did though.

I laughed the day I got my "Inactive Corps" status. Like CM and gang could take away everything God taught me and gave me and grew me up to be during that time. I thought they were pretty arrogant. I thought if people went in to get out of it what God wanted them to learn they would do fine and the ones who were in out of ego wouldn't.

I loved the Corps. I ran with the kids from California and New York and they were a law unto themselves. We shared everything - cars, food, ciggys, clothes, money - it was the closest I've ever lived to having all things in common and the truest taste of what life will be like someday and I've never forgotten it and my heart still yearns for a world like that. I'm very thankful for my time then.

Socks - did we know each other???? I was one of the 8 who was in 4th Corps who stayed at HDQ instead of going out on the field. How cool if we did know each other. I don't hear very much from any of the "oldies" here at Grease Spot. Anyway, howdy.

Elizabeth, I don't know if you will read any of these replies but I hope you do. First I applaud you for surviving the insanity you went through. Your letter was superb and I was awed by it. I am thankful you had the strength of God behind you as you were going through the whole situation. And I hope John kept the letter and will periodically read it. I hope in time he comes to grieve the loss of a wonderful woman of God. Grieving in the sense of learning. I am very saddened that John was not able to be a protector for you. I am glad you were able to come out of it whole, sane, sound and greater. God indeed is a gracious, miracle working God.

My prayers and my love go out to you, a beautiful sister in Christ. Thank you for the letter and for reaching out one last time to John.

Well, I think she is so cool. It comforted me and gave me hope. I'm almost 60 and I went back to school. I didn't know if I could make it or do it anymore. BUT, I've done better on the chart tests and written tests than the 20 and 30 year olds are doing. I was really blessed to hear her story.

Sprawled out,

I don't get here to GreaseSpot often, although I'm from the older generation from WayDale. You probably don't know who I am but I do pop in when I can.

In answer to your question - I wouldn't go back for anything.

I didn't take your posting as insulting, I took it that you were expressing your thoughts more than anything. BUT, I did think CK's was insulting.

I figure everyone has a right to their own opinions and postings BUT I vote that no one should be insulting to any of us here - for ANY reason.

I think God takes all of us on HIS deprogramming journey after we get out. I personally don't think all my time, effort, emotions, energy and studies were in vain. I think God taught me what He wanted me to walk away with.

But for a period of time I thought I "knew" more than most other people, not in an egotistical way, but because that's pretty much what we were led to believe. Once out it didn't take God long to teach me that there were LOTS of people that He teaches His truth to. TWI didn't have any exclusive rights to the truth.

Subjects important to the Way became not important to me. Example would be the trinity, the stand on homosexuality, 3 days/3 nights, who was crucified with Jesus etc.

I don't find those issues worth debating or talking about anymore - or pointing out to people that they are wrong when they say the opposite of what we learned in the way.

I also learned when I go into His arena and try to do His job I am sure to fail so I learned not to go there anymore.

I am much more fixated on scripture where it says, "People will know you are my disciples by how you love one another", OR, "growing up into Him in all things in love".

It did take me a while to not feel like I blew my leadership responsibilites though. But God got me past that too. I learned to live up to HIS expectations not VPW or LCMs. And believe me God took me in a whole totally different direction than where they wanted me to go.

So, one for God and zippo for them. PTL

My doc put me on Lipitor and I took it for about 3 days or so and my muscles hurt me so bad I could barely get out of bed. It also made me so tired I could barely function. When I called my doctor his nurse called me back and told me to continue taking it for at least 2 weeks and the symptoms should go away. Well, do I look like I've got a S written on my forehead???? I quit taking it.

And besides that cholesterol is not the enemy. Cholesterol is trying to repair damage. When the real problem gets too bad the cholesterol overproduces and then it is a problem. But, my point being - cholesterol is a symptom of another bigger problem and they don't address the bigger problem, they just try to lower the cholesterol.

The body is absolutely fascinating in the ways it tries to heal and repair itself. And "man" is absolutely fascinating that they can never address the real health problem but instead try to do away with the symptom that is trying to do the repairs and alert us that something is wrong.

Sometimes I think doctors would be better off to surf the net and find out the information there! I'm not against doctors (although I sound like it) but I think if you don't take responsibility for your own life and put your life in their hands they will kill you. They should be a PART of a person's health care plan but doctors are NOT the be all and end all of staying healthy and alive. IMHO!!!

Med school is more about memorizing what chemical med goes with what disease, illness and symptom than about really helping the body heal. Pharmaceutical meds and their side effects are scary.

WOW, I went to my city and checked on the map - I had no idea so many sex offenders lived in Topeka. How scary for our kids.

Does anyone know about the new law they are trying to pass - about making the sex offenders live outside the city?? They can't live within so many miles of the city or something. Boy, talk about "we live in a fallen world" thing. I guess.

I'm with Sudo - I was an early TWIer. I missed a lot of the things that came later too. Thank God - I consider myself blessed for that. When I was in the Corps I had to fight every damn day for the right just to spend time with my kid. And I had to buck every single leader at HDQ to do it. I thought they were all nincompoops - talk about the breeding pool. They didn't even want to give us parents 1 hour a day with our kids and God forbid if we didn't volunteer for every d*mn work detail that came up.

So I left study hall early every day, didn't run in the morning, depending on the need of my child I would attend meetings or not, if he was sick I'd stay with him. And one times when it was demanded that I leave my sick child in the trailer and come to a meeting I threw my "twig leader" out of my trailer, down the steps.... I know it sounds terrible but it was terrible times calling for terrible measures. They were snotty, hateful, insulting and STUPID. They told me God had called me to the Corps first and I told them that obviously God had called me to parenthood before the Corps - since I had my kid first.

I know I still sound a little belligerent but how could so many adults in an organization be so stupid as to the needs of children? This was in the early 70s and I was in my 20s. You would have thought they would have been smarter than a kid in their 20s. And just think we all put our lives in their hands. WOW - and I don't mean 'word over the world' either.

When I started working staff I was put in the fields at KIPP farm from sun up to sun down, plus was supposed to cook and clean and do laundry for my family PLUS clean up the 3 single mens rooms upstairs. That was the final straw for me. I told leadership to either put me in the field or put me in the home but I wasn't doing both anymore.

And I was NEVER paid for any of my work either. My husband drew a paycheck a year before I started working and when I started work we never made 1 cent more. When I went to VPW and asked I was told they paid according to family needs not individual pay. I asked him whatever happened to the thing about not restraining the ox....

I was told I had a bad attitude. Uhhhh, yeah!! So, we were kindly asked to leave HDQ. Thank you Jesus!!!! I moved and got out of the ministry then. That was enough for me. I had 4 years of personal ^#$*@ dealing with them BUT I have always been forever thankful the things God was able to teach me during those 6 years of my life. Even if they were stupid - God was gracious. So, I'm thankful.

Oh, I guess my first clue should have been when I was living in a way home and was told I had to go to fellwoship EVERY SINGLE NIGHT instead of spending time with my little boy. I didn't listen then either though!!! Who knew it was prevelant in the 'ministry'. And I never got into that wooden spoon thing, or dragging your kids around by their hair.

I know you are wondering how all this has to do with the 'missing Jesus' thing. But, if they had even had the christian thing WWJD maybe they would have thought SOMETHING

So much for Cyberworld - it took my post and put it somewhere besides the end of the line AND cut me off early - the cyberbums!!!!

To continue....

You'd think they would have been able to have a line of thought that bordered on sanity where children were concerned. I don't consider myself to be the brightest lightbulb in the batch (nor the dimmest) :blink: but I would think leadership should have been smarter than the 20 year olds!!!!

Gotta go - enough of this. But, yeah, I'm glad I missed the even more insanity TWI came to have. Sheesh.

In respons to Galens "LOL.LOL.LOL. Sometimes we have a very dirty gene-pool, with very stupid folks in it. Unfortunately they often breed..."

I'll add my own LOL - loved your answer and humor.

Moony - What a beautiful horse, thank you. I'll have to do some searching and figure out how to get an avatar.

Digitalis - Thanks and good to see you again too.

Does anyone remember in the early days of the Corps a group of Corps were at LEAD (or whatever it was called then) and VPW had another group of Corps crash the program, rounded all the people up and held them captive and grilled them, didn't let them sleep etc.

At one of the meals VPW said he wanted to see how the leaders would handle it - fight it and try to escape or get quiet, go to God and find out what was really going on.

I though it was just plain weird. I don't know how many lunches and dinners we had to sit around and listen to LCM talk about that! Sheesh!

Wow Paw - GS was one of those job that if you don't do it you have no idea!! I came from WayDale to GS and had a lot of trouble with my computer for some reason. And you were so patient and nice in helping me get up and running. Who knew!

I used to come to GS a whole lot but I'm only able to come every once in a while now but I am still blessed that it is here for me to come to.

Thanks so much for everything you've done and continue to do for all of us. And thanks for sharing all the stuff you are - it's really nice to know.

Yes, I've gotten back to my art and it's been marvelous. I was very artistic when I was in highschool but then I got married and life just took off from there. I wasn't able to resume my art until the last few years and I love it as much now as I did way back then.

I forgot how great it was as a rest from the world - I just dive in and forget the world and everything in it and have lots of fun.

Your painting is GREAT - thanks for sharing it with us.

I had me a husband in the Way who used to minister to me and cast spirits out of me because I wanted to have sex with HIM. Hmmmmm - think something was wrong with him??????? Shoot - his exorcism's didn't work either.

I had me a husband in the Way once who told me I had to call him "Master". I immediately fell down and was slain in the spirit having a spell of happy laughter!!! That was the funniest thing I EVER heard.

Silly man.

Sudo,

It makes you wonder about the judge doesn't it. I figure when they let the abuser off easy it's because they are an incestor or sexaul abuser of children.

I think the judge should go to prison - right along with the abuser!!!!

I used to visit WayDale a long time ago and then came over here to GreaseSpot for quite a while and I've just always used my real name. I think some of you might still remember me - I'm really an old-timer but just look new

I don't have an avatar because I don't know how to get one. If I had one it would probably (but maybe not) be a horse. I've loved horses all my life and I rode them before I walked.

It's good to see all the old-timers here and nice to meet all the rest of you.

My husband and I dated for 1-1/2 years, lived together for 6 months while going through premarital counseling (which I highly recommend) and have been married for over 10 years now. And we are still in like, in love, best friends and happy together.

The 1-1/2 years we dated was a long distance relationship. We talked on phone and e-mailed a lot and really got to know each other. I love being married and can honestly say I've been happy since the day I met my husband.

Do you all think it's more of a big step for the man than the woman?