Mark Clarke

Thanks, Twinky. Good logic there. Homosexuality is no worse a sin than any other, and we all sin.

I always thought it was ironic that in TWI they called homosexuality the "bottom of the barrel" because of it being last in the list of sins in Romans 1, yet they mocked those who used the same logic to say speaking in tongues was less important because it was last in Paul's list. "Ladies and gentlemen, something's got to be last!"

Cheranne,

Thanks for bringing that up again. It was fun writing that last year.

So many Christians, not just in TWI, are convinced that Christmas derived from a pagan festival and has nothing to do with Christ's birth. But I found out recently that while the date of his birth was not known, there is more evidence that Dec. 25 was chosen as the date, not as a compromise with pagan festivals, but to offer an alternative. Check out the article on my web site: Is Christmas Pagan?

I heard the bells on Christmas day<BR>

Their old familiar carols play<BR>

And wild and sweet the words repeat<BR>

Of peace on earth<BR>

Peace on earth<BR>

<BR>

I thought how as the day had come<BR>

The belfries of all Christendom<BR>

Had rolled along the unbroken song<BR>

Of peace on earth<BR>

Peace on earth<BR>

Peace on earth, good will to men<BR>

<BR>

And in despair I bowed my head<BR>

"There is no peace on earth," I said<BR>

"For hate is strong and mocks the song<BR>

Of peace on earth<BR>

Peace on earth<BR>

<BR>

Then pealed the bells more loud and deep<BR>

"God is not dead, nor doth he sleep<BR>

The wrong shall fail, the right prevail<BR>

With peace on earth<BR>

Peace on earth, good will to men"<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

One of my favorite Christmas songs, done in the style of Queen (with a little Beethoven thrown in as well):<BR>

<BR>

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We were told for years that Christmas was a Pagan festival and shouldn't be observed by Christians. Others besides TWI have made this claim, and many still do. But it turns out that most of the anti-Christmas rhetoric can be traced to one single source - Hislop's The Two Babylons (which was carried in TWI's bookstore) - and his reasoning was less than sound.

Check out the article, Is Christmas Pagan? on my web site.

Also, for a balanced consideration of whether or not a Christian should celebrate Christmas (and how to do so as a Christian) check out this blog article by David Crank.

In the Way, we were discouraged from using the word "Christmas" because the word meant "Mass for Christ".

However, I've since found out that this policy could not be justified from the scriptures. In fact, the opposite is inferred by the epistles.

Could you elaborate on that a bit?

When I was younger, I remember that certain people had tried to avoid having to say the word "Christ" by changing "Christmas" to "Xmas". It seems that the word "Christ" grates on some peoples lips.

I have since found out that "Xmas" is not a way to take Christ out of the word, as is often thought. It has been an abbreviation for Christmas for about a thousand years, and is related to the common use of X as an abbreviation for Christ (X representing chi, the first letter of Christ in Greek) that goes all the way back to the early church. Other words based on Christ were also abbreviated that way, such as Xtian for Christian.

However, the Way said that you can't take "Christ" out of "Christ"-mas, because he was never there to start with. Whereas that is a matter of subjective fact, it is not ALL that there is to say on the subject.

I agree. I recently discovered there is very little historic evidence of Christians adopting Pagan customs "just to get along" as is often claimed these days. There is more evidence that the early Christians decided to celebrate Christmas at the same time as the Pagan holiday, not as a compromise but to provide an alternative to it. I guess it all depends on how you look at things.

It was certainly embarrasing to have to greet your relatives with "Happy Household Holidays" and look for cards that didn't have the word "Christmas" on them. "Season's Greetings" seemed to be OK at the time.

The truth of the matter is that we should just be glad that Christ is acknowledged at all !!! - don't you think?

All I succeded in doing by adopting this hard-hearted mentality was to put a stumbling block in people's path that made it more difficult for them to see the truth. Maybe I should have been a little bit more circumspect in my attitude!

I agree!

Happy Holidays! Merry Christmas!

One of the problems that we ex-wayfers have to deal with is that any actual biblical studying or "research" that we do is going to be tainted with Waythink assumptions unless we take a lot of time and effort to throw out the bathwater, the baby, the tub, gut the bathroom and burn down the house, including that bony fish. So much of our research in TWI was based on Wierwille's faulty assumptions; we looked for things to fit with what we had been taught before, we based interpretations on phony translations of Greek & Hebrew words, we accepted the existence of texts that nobody had ever seen, and wove all of these things into our subconscious and into our basic premises so that our conclusions were bound to be skewed.

One advantage that I have is that I have never read the Bible before and was taught very little of it, even after nine years of Catholic catechism. There's a very liberating aspect to reading the Bible for the first time as a married, educated, middle-aged adult with kids. I see things that I could not possibly have understood as an adolescent or even as young college student.

I have to say, though, that it's very useful to have the tools that my friend introduced me to: interlinear/parallel reading, Strong's concordance, various commentaries, etc. Plus, the online versions that can be found at BibleGateway.com and Biblos.com make researching the Bible so much easier.

I agree, Soul Searcher. I don't think we need to "gut the bathroom and burn down the house." There are some pretty simple tools and methods to sift through what we were taught and avoid "throwing out the baby with the bathwater." We no longer need to accept what one person or group says, but we can search it out for ourselves. Most of the basic ideas in the Bible are pretty straight forward when you read it without preconceived ideas. And where there are differing opinions, many times you can see where one viewpoint makes more sense than another. But there are some areas where more than one viewpoint makes sense. For those, we no longer need to say A is right and B is wrong. It's OK to say both A and B have merit and "we'll understand it all by and by."

Well, it was interesting to a noob like me, anyway.

I guess one of the concepts that intrigued me the most was that the "dead are dead." They cite several verses that seem to support that belief and it goes completely against what I and most other Christians were taught.

STF's beliefs are more along the lines of the Jewish faith that evolved over time, which is a bodily resurrection when a messiah comes. That is why Jews don't cremate.

It's all pure speculation anyway - eternal life - when it happens. No one knows.

There have been Christian groups that have embraced this belief as well. If you're interested, Google "conditional immortality" or specific groups such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Christadelphians, the Church of God Abrahamic Faith, Restoration Fellowship, Advent Christian Church, and others. Even the widely recognized main-stream Anglican bishop, N. T. Wright, has recently embraced this view and wrote about it in his book, Surprised By Hope. The belief that the dead are unconscious was not invented by, nor was it ever unique to, The Way Int'l.

Actually there was some talk about putting together a 'Life Lines' sort of thing for LCM's one liners. I'm not sure how far along it got before a few of his secrets hit the outside world.

Was it going to be called LC and Me? :P

Oh, and "Every Breath You Take" by The Police was about familiar spirits...

And Paul McCartney's "Let 'Em In" was about opening your mind to "devil spirits."

And Billy Joel was born of the Wrong Seed because his song "Just the Way You Are" encouraged you to not grow and change.

(The line "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun" in "Only the Good Die Young" of course makes it obvious!)

I actually heard real Wayfers say these things!

And the paranoia extended to bizarre interpretations of music. I heard somebody (I forget who) say that Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall" was inspired by "devil spirits" addressing Wierwille - "Hey! Teacher! Leave those kids alone!"

Now that I think about it, maybe it was God telling him to leave the "girl" kids alone!

How deluded and arrogant does a group of people (TWI - BOD headed by Rozilla) have to be to isolate themselves in the cornfields of north west Ohio (while spending most of their time exclusively with their own in meetings in the Chalet Annex) to think they can pontificate amongst themselves and be able to pin point what God's people need to learn next.

About as deluded and arrogant as a group of people that isolate themselves in palatial digs in Rome who think God gave them the right to control people the world over and tell them what to eat and how to have sex (among other things!)

It's called religion.

Then there's the, uh, colorful version of that: "You're the breast. Rub you!"

The opposite was, "You're the Beast! God blast you!"

There's a seeker born every minute.

The idea here, I think, is that people started mimicking everything Wierwille did, right down to his gestures, facial expressions and quirky pronunciations. -----That's Riiiiiight!

You're right; I just didn't hear it done with that particular song in the areas I was in. But there were several of his other mannerisms that we imitated. I still catch myself doing it occasionally - and it's creepy!

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1624524/20091023/story.jhtml

More than a comedian, he was a symbol of my childhood. His show was a regular part of my life back in the 60's and had a big influence on my sense of humor. Memories still abound of pies in the face, his dogs White Fang and Black Tooth, doing the Mouse, detective Philo Kvetch, strange characters at the door, and outrageous puns. He's been imitated but never duplicated. He was one of a kind and will be missed.

Not only were the jokes corny, but like nearly everything else in PFAL they weren't even original! Years later I found most of those jokes in generic "Bible" or "religious" joke books. Nothing wrong with repeating jokes, but many wayfers assumed VP made them up and thought he was the funniest teacher in the world.

Another joke I thought was original but turned out not to be was something I heard Johnny Townsend say at the ROA one year. He said he was in a record store and overheard one teenager saying to another, "See! I TOLD you Paul McCartney was in another band before Wings!" It may not have been original but I thought it was cool that Johnny told it.

Actually, it changed to "G.O.D. spells Gaaawd."

Depends on the local accent, I guess. I rarely heard people pronounce it GAWD in New York, California, Chicago, or Rhode Island. And like Keith I most often heard it end with "Great big wonderful God" anyway. The spelling thing was kind of dumb but it didn't annoy me.

However, I HAVE seen many a poster here WRITE "Gawd" instead of "God" which I never understood. Same with "debbil" for devil, and "da verd" for the Word. Once in a while might be funny but I've seen these so often they've become lame cliches in my mind. But that's just me.

Roll a jay, roll a jay, roll a jay...

Ev'ry burden on my heart,

Roll a jay!

I don't know about you but I am so glad to know certain truths like:

Jesus is not God

The dead are not alive

I can pray perfectly

God is always good

God's Word is true

I will meet the Lord in the air...

anybody else?

Yes, I am thankful to know those things (not so sure about the perfect prayer thing, though). But the thing is, TWI is not the only group that teaches them, and in fact I've encountered others (individuals as well as groups) who do a much better job of teaching them than TWI ever did, and have both intellectual and moral integrity to back them up.

Please keep me and my family in your prayers. We lost my brother Bud to a freak accident on Thursday. He was riding his bicycle and ran into a deer and was killed. He was 68.

This is so mindboggling I'm at a loss for words. My parents were both old and ill for a long time before they died, so it was expected. But Bud was into health and fitness and was in good shape, so this has been a terrible shock to all of us.

For me, it all started to go bad when it moved to HQ, and everything was 'controlled'. I loved the Sydney Fairgrounds, with the aged wooden structures that would never pass later 'standards', the little store a few steps from the gate, where the locals could yell at you, and the sense of genuine 'fellowship', such as joining small groups playing music, etc. I was also new to the way then, and hadn't been ground down by it's many forces yet. It was actually FUN.

I loved that about the early ROA's in Sydney too. They were more like a rock festival, with different bands doing whole sets, on and off all day. The later ones at HQ were more like variety shows, and very slick and "packaged."

I have a special memory of walking around at the fairgrounds in Sydney (in '72) and happening on a small group of guys jamming together. I had a harmonica with me and started playing along with them a bit. I didn't know who they were at the time, but that night they were introduced on the main stage as a brand new group - and their name was Good Seed.

Craig Ferguson has figured out why everything sucks. It has to do with the shift from respect for elders to deification of youth. This clip is from his show on July 21. He's funny but he actually makes a lot of sense. OMG! Comedy that makes you think? On CBS??!!!

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Yeah.....like twi-classified information.

A few select individuals were assigned the "secret mission" of repairing the twig-hopper. A make-shift painting booth was assembled in one of the back aisles of twi's warehouse and five or six guys worked around the clock to conceal the matter. Although I was not allowed to see it.....I heard that the motorcycle front fender was bent, turning lights bent/broken and left side was damaged/dented/scraped. The Ambassador One guys and a couple of others provided the extremely detailed painting and decal work.....adding upgrades to this 1982 gift from Living Victoriously.

Now you know.

Why the big secret? Even from their warped POV, what would be the problem with people hearing that he had an accident so they could pray for him? Did the "insiders" give a reason for the big cover-up?

Sign in hardware store window:

********************

CAST IRON SINKS

********************

(Who didn't know that?)

That's like the bumper sticker that says, "Show Dogs Do Not Tailgate"

Of course not - they can't even drive!

N.S. I promise - My daughter and I were walking through a mall - signs

a) over Mervyns before they bellied up - "Now Hiring" - but under the sign - "Mervyns"

Uhh - Now hiring Mervyns, Is that like now hiring Smirfs? What about blonds? What about horse lovers?

b) over the pool store - "Professional grade chemicals" - uhhh - is that like pharmaceutical grade LSD?

I actually saw this in a shop in Newport, RI:

"Ears pierced while you wait"

As opposed to dropping them off and picking them up next Thursday???

nor does the drunken use of explosives--but it seems to be a tradition for some reason

As Craig Ferguson said on the Boston Pops fireworks show, "We're gonna celebrate in true American style - by makin' a lot of noise and blowin' stuff up!"