mstar1

Thankfully I'm far away but I am working on a job for some good folks in Mississippi. I called today and they "threaded the needle" as tornadoes were on all sides but missed them...I'll be driving right through the devastated areas in Alabama and Mississippi in about 2 weeks--my heart goes out to them..

If anyone is in the tornado zones please check in and let us know

Right--There is nothing 'false' about it. I left...and I acknowledge that...

the confusion (for me) comes in when I equate TWI with christianity.

How can I leave something that I wasn't a part of in the first place?

I am with Mark Twain on this one...."Most people are bothered by the passages of Scripture they do not understand, but the passages that bother me are those I do understand."

I was going to put up the chuckling laughing emoticon because its true, insightful and worded very cleverly and humorously -- BUT the more I thought about it, its really no laughing matter--it does bother me

why do apostates always have to be false..

It does seem a little redundant...in the case of the song it had to fit in with the meter of the melody and poetically fits better than true apostates.

False apostates does sound like people who arent really apostates though... <_<

I know Im a 'genuine' TWI apostate, Ive left them and renounced most of the doctrines they hold...Im the real deal, a 'true' one. I don't dispute it.

I guess 'false' connects more on emotion, feel and poetical content than on analytical reason and scrutiny

One too many syllables in the tune that had to be filled up with something and the exercise of just a tad of Poetic license...

Jesus said..."But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." How many of the throngs that followed Him were standing there at the end of it all? Very few.

I dont want to further complicate Socks thread but since I got the remnants of TWI teachings from my head I now really think that nothing is guaranteed (hence my previous answer) there are just too many biblical warnings similar to that to overlook, take for granted or discard lightly.

I heard a chilling song today written in 1707 by Isaac Watts in the Sacred Harp singing style that illustrates that point

Windham

Broad is the road that leads to death,

and thousands walk together there;

But wisdom shows a narrow path,

with here and there a traveler.

"Deny thyself and take thy cross,"

Is the Redeemers great command,

nature must count her gold but dross,

if she would gain this heavenly land.

The fearful soul that tires and faints,

and walks the way of God no more

Is but esteemed almost a saint

and makes his own destruction sure

Lord, let not all my hopes be vain

Create my heart entirely new,

Which hypocrites can ne'er attain,

Which false apostates never knew.

I cannot imagine you in a crowd baying for blood.

You never saw me at a Bruins game when I was young...

VP had a good con game going--he first built it in people in TWI that he was frickin Moses or Paul or something and that he was inherently better than them.

Rape wasnt just rape it was compounded and confused by the programming that made it, if not impossible,at the very least extremely difficult for the victims to step forward.

I do remember stories of people suing to get their money back after they were promised healing or whatever if they handed over their $$$, which was sometimes substantial amounts.

I would have thought some of things might have been enough to land him in jail and may have if he were in any other field--of course having your own personal 'legal department' fends off alot especially poorer people that TWI preyed on

They were not excluded arbitrarily, but they were excluded.

This is why I answer the way that i do...Im the first to admit i dont know if I meet the criteria or I don't. Im not even really sure what the criteria is...there seem to be so many different takes on it.

I do know that over the years I have heard many more arguments against my inclusion than for it.

Sorry,

Took the "down on their luck" wrong then.

Me too--I know some people who are "down on their luck" who dont end up in prison, although I know some that have too... down on their luck may be part of it but its usually combined with some pretty bad decisions somewhere along the line if someone ends up in jail...

I dont know how 'accepting' people are of those people you named.

Personally, of the people that have even heard of them, I'd bet that they have more opponents than followers.

They may walk a crooked line and there are plenty of people that know it but so far they havent been caught at anything with enough available evidence or run into a prosecutor with enough persistance to put them away...

...republicans were all Christians and democrats were all liberals..

OK, I'll rephrase it.

When did Christianity become a political party?

Its dickering with words to render them meaningless,and appear to put them in opposition.

Just as many democrats are christian as are republicans...

Its along the lines of saying

Do you walk to work or take a lunch?

I remember Lovely Loy sounding off one day (well...more than once) about the European Union and all the countries working together for closer economic union. He had lots of scathing things to say. And (as a European) I could only think, "Keep your bloody nose out of it!"

Who is he to make a statement about Europe, or my own country? What does he know about their politics, individually or collectively?

Most likely zero.

My take on it is much simpler.. Martindale could not conceive of the idea of working together with anyone...it was simpler to say they were possessed than to actually have to think about the advantages of banding together

This was going to be my Easter card that I never got around to making so you all get it.

Happy Easter!

Off Topic-

...republicans were all Christians and democrats were all liberals...

This is one of those days that I really wish the political forums were still open for discussion.

This is a months worth with lots of spinoff threads....

O well ----

Is there any way to get a retro look at the original GS?

Every time this place has gone through a facelift it throws me off for about a week or so until I get used to it..

...IIRC its been through many changes and updates-I can't even remember what the original looked like but do remember going through an adjustment from Waydale to this newfangled place and wondering if it was going to catch on...

Thank you for all your work, headaches and sleepless nights that youve put in for us all these years--

Happy Anniversary and

Happy Birthday GS!

but to be "made to hitch" in the way and have such catostrophic results

and to keep it going i don't get it

the good folks -- DIED AND RAPED -- would they be hitching if they weren't made to do it?

I agree that it was incredibly irresponsible of TWI to REQUIRE people to do it...some people are built and wired for it, some people simply are not...

I was, I had pretty good instincts, knew how to survive and protect myself if necessary and enjoyed the adventure -- I enjoyed my hitching time but Id never force that type of thing on anyone else...it can be harsh at times and just is not suitable for a lot of people.

Its hard to believe after those horrible incidents that the whole program wasnt scrapped in a hurry

I had great times hitchin' throughout the 70's--saw most of this country--nothing bad ever happened to me except i got stranded in a blizzard in Colorado one time in which i darn near froze to death -- but that was my own fault--I met some nice people, some that were a little strange but OK, and a few ethereally stoned other worldly characters that made life interesting...

For me it was a good adventurous time in my life--I never knew what was going to happen next...and I really liked it that way...i could be anywhere and anything could happen....

Im standin on a corner in Winslow Arizona

Such a fine sight to see

Its a girl my lord in flat bed ford

slowin down to take a look at me...

yea ---I liked my hitchin times

O boy the judge jury and executioner showed up--all wrapped in one!

Personally Im a really big fan of breathing clean air, walking by the ocean, fishing in clean rivers, observing the wonders of nature and stewarding its resources.

"The earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof"

Maybe you dont, but I like it and dont mind expending some effort to take care of it while Im here.

We do things??? :biglaugh:

Who doesnt?

what the heck is that supposed to mean anyway?

I hitchiked across the country from coast to coast 9 times when I was that age I guess I must know the entire bible--

under current definitions in church and society.. I wish you gave another choice.. "I really don't know.."

Almost the same here. It's a difficult question....the definitions keep changing

I spoke in tongues in the 70's and was told it was proof that I was going to heaven and all hell couldnt stop me--Less that 10 years later I was told that I was possessed for leaving TWI and had lost all of my eternal rewards.

I tried another church about 5 years later and they of the unconditional love booted me after a few months for having been in The Way. That was it for me for a long time.

I quit even attempting for a long time, I met an understanding episcopalian bishop a few years back who listened to my whole story, we spoke for several hours and then he baptized me, which in that tradition "establishes an indissoluble bond with God"

which Im sure someone will dispute

I pray once in awhile, go to church once in awhile, try to be mostly decent and respectful to my fellow man, giveaway money to causes I believe in, work as a craftsman for the church....still swear too much, give the finger to people who cut me off in traffic....

I really dont know where the hoops are to jump through anymore and I got very tired of the goalposts continually moving.

So I rarely if ever assume that I can take the title 'christian'. There always seems to be someone around who is quick to tell me that Im not...so...whatever....I'll live my life and let God figure out if I make the grade or not

I was....

not so much anymore....

I was so busy trying to figure out where commas went, whether receive was dechomai or lambano, running around to endless meetings and being forbidden from reading the newspaper or staying abreast of current events that I didnt have time to develop my own sense of political awareness or my own viewpoints.

If I voted in my TWI days it was pretty much partyline to whatever some TWI bigwig said. It wasn't always VP, sometimes it was a limb or area coordinator who imo 'should know'.

My political views were severely underdeveloped until long after I got out and I finally had some time to consider what I thought without any outside interference.

the forums here were a huge help in that...

Im pretty much on the opposite end of the political spectrum from anything TWI may have taught at this point.

..."its what you learn after you think you know it all that counts"

Are we back on 'tripped out' again ?

What a long strange trip this thread has been.

That also goes for most threads around here.

I still dont see how I can trip out of something that I never was...

I was a pretty good bibliolater (top notch!) in TWI but christianity was never part of the package that I left behind. Lots of talk, lots of activities, lots of classes, tons and tons and tons of fricking meetings, filling out forms, wearing nametags, leading songs, stringing chairs, cleaning bathrooms, more classes, more and more meetings.

I stayed busy busy busy and knew all the right rap, but where was Christianity?

TWI openly hated and made fun of most of christianity unless some small point suited their ends.

I made the decision to 'chuck the whole thing'- for me it was way too foul. I started again.

I havent shut anything off, Im still honestly looking and take full responsiblility for my decisions to walk away from TWI doctrine and practice

If God wants to make me pay thats completely up to him and I can live with that ---but I do have a slight annoyance with anyone that crosses my path who thinks it is their mission to threaten me into conformity.

been there done that

My Grandpa lived late into his 90's. He drank a great deal and smoked 2 packs of unfiltered cigarettes a day. He died on Christmas day awhile back. He didn't suffer, he just drifted off. Truth be told...he was not really a nice man at all. He was abusive to his wife and kids. His daughters, my aunts, are some of the most kind, gregarious, and loving women you could ever meet. All of them are stunningly beautiful too, and kind of legendary around here. I marvel that they turned out so good coming from such a father.

Not all old man are sweet and gentle. :) Your grandpa sounds wonderful.

I had a great-aunt from the other side of my family who I absolutely adored. She lived to be 85. I spent my summers on her farm. My farm now. Before she died I took an oral history from her.

She too was born when there was still horse and buggy roaming the streets. I still marvel at all the things she saw in her lifetime. She lost a brother to the great flu epidemic right before the 1920's. Several of her 11 brothers fought in WW1 and then WW2. She and her sister both were Rosie the Riveters....her mother fed people out the back door during the Great Depression.....because they raised chickens and rabbits they had plenty of food. She designed and made barbie doll clothes for Mattel in the 1950's and 60's....I still have some of them...she was an amazing seamstress. I have a dress she made from Parachute silk sent to her during WW2.

Her father was a prize fighter who boxed with John L Sullivan. DL Moody sat at the same kitchen table I have today...it once belonged to my great-grandfather.

I loved listening to her...history really came to life. We would have a cup of tea every night and just talk. I really miss her!

She sounds great!--I always seem to get along a lot better with either very old people or very young children, instead of people in my own age bracket who almost always have an 'angle' on every thing. Children and old people just are...it must be a great gift that you get to carry on at her farm...

My grandparents too had a steady stream of people that they fed out the backdoor during the depression all while my grandfather was making less than zero each week (I get my business sense from him apparently)

My Dad always thought there was some mark in the alley that directed 'hobos' to their door.

They or the family never went hungry.

He made his childrens shoes during that time because they couldnt afford storebought shoes...

I have his shoemaking tools

I also have a family kitchen table that has been in use everyday in my family for well over 100 years. It is simple, solid and hand made, every mark and every scar in the table has a story.

I miss em all too--Im thankful that they left me their legacy and some simple reminders that there is alot more to the picture than meets the eye.

O goody -- another class I wont go to!

What do they do use oppressive tactics to teach about freedom in Christ?

Why anyone goes anymore is beyond me

When we're gone, things will continue as they always have, so how important is politics, or philosophy, or economics?

We get to make our dent in them no matter how big or small while we are here--otherwise whats the point of being here at all?

Wow, that is amazing. I bet he was a wonderful man.

He was....a man of simplicity and unassuming faith who never lost his sense of wonder and inquisitive mind

As far as seeing a lot --he was born when Grant was President!

He'd stand amazed and smile at things most of us take for granted like an airplane flying overhead or talking on the telephone.

Another thing that I left out, he had 11 brothers, even though he died at 113, 8 of them were at his funeral--the mstar genetics are pretty good