Goey
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Posts posted by Goey
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Hmm?
Maybe 500 phone connections with an "estimated" 10 people at each. That makes 5000 - Right?
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Bluze,
I am using it on both Win 98 and 2000. Can't say about XP though.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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TWI recons that the ministry began in 1942 with God speaking to VPW followed by the snow on the gas pumps.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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I installed it last week Seems faster than IE and with a few more features. No problems so far.
Anyone else using it? -- Comments? -- Suggestions?
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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You can reduce the size of the file in 2 ways. You can either make it smaller in size by reducing it physical dimesnions or you can increase the JPEG compression level. Or a combination of both.
You really don't need any fancy software to do it. If you have MS Office you can do it with Microsoft Photo Editor. It is under Office Tools.
If you resize the picture to 50 percent ( You can eve do this in MS Paint), and then save it, it should reduce the file to about 25 - 30 percent of its original file size.
If you open the file in Photo Editor and then do a "save as" you can click on "more" at the bottom of the window. This will allow you to increase the compression (smaller file) and reduce the file size onsiderabily - but at the expense of some quality. Usually the change in quality is not noticable unless you take the compression below about 30 or 40.
Good Luck
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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My Sympathies to all who knew and loved her.
Goey
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Nice Post Linda,
Thanks
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Dot, Oldies.
What does "child of the devil" mean to each of you? - Does it mean the same thing?
I propose that TWI's teacing on this may have been errant.
Dot has expressed her opinion that VPW was a child of the devil.
Oldies disagrees and is offended by the idea. Yet I am not fully sure what Dot means by "child of the devil". Or why Oldies takes such offense.
------ Start Edit Here ----------
Correction: Dot never outright said that VPW was a "child of the devil". This term was first used by Oldies on this thread.
Oldies seems to have presumed or taken by inference that what Dot has said about VPW is the same as saying that VPW was a "child of the devil". But Dot never actually made that statement.
-------- End of Edit -----------
So, I have started a thread in Doctrinal where we can possibly explore and discuss what child of the devil means - biblically. Maybe we can clear up things here a bit.
If you care to participate the thread is Here
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
[This message was edited by Goey on November 10, 2003 at 21:24.]
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Linda,
You posted:
quote:
So Linda, are you saying that Dot or anyone else should not state their opinion on this? That becasaue we cannot see VP's "heart" that we best keep it to ourselves? I think not.
We can criticize what we observed and knew about him, but I think to state your opinion about his purpose as fact is presuming to know what only God can know.
What about "For every tree is known by his own fruit." or "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:"
I believe that there is plenty of evidence to form an opinion concerning VPW's possible purposes. And I certainly think we out to be free to express it here.
Dot posted:
quote:
But it was bigger than that; VPW stole the man's lifetime work, then started a ministry to abuse people. So, we got saved and were immediately escourted in to depravity, abuse and oppression.
Linda replied:
quote:
"...The vast majority of us were certainly not "immediately escorted into depravity, abuse and oppression.Immediately? All of us? That's simply not true.
If only one person was abused (and I certainly know some were), that was way too many, but why exaggerate this? Your words would have much more credibility if you just stuck to the facts.
I do not think that this is an exaggeration at all and that the VPW did indeed at least attempt to lead us (all of us) into "depravity, abuse and oppression". Depravity (moral corruption), abuse both spiritual and physical, and oppression were all built into the master plan of PFAL and TWI. He got those that he could get. This is my OPINION.
Sticking to "facts" is one thing. But what are the facts for if not to form opinions from? But it seems that you would supress those opinions and charge those that have them "with presuming to know what only God can know". Why?
BTW, Dot did not state that as a "fact". Like many statements here it was her opinion - based upon facts and observations. We should not have to preface every statement with "IMO" in order to qualify it as an opinion from a fact. I find her words (opinion) quite credibile.
However, your "opinion" that we should "stick to the facts" and not form opinions, expecially those that question the purpose and intentions of VPW and TWI, and to do so is playing God and medodrama - I find well, less than credible or incredible.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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By Oakspear:
quote:
When we are discussing Wierwille's plagerism, supporters of the godliness and "accuracy" of PFAL itself often chime in with "reminders" that Wierwille's plagerism does not affect the content of the class itself.
Yes this often happens, the same as when someone starts a discussion of the good stuff. Some of us will chime in with the same kind of "yes, but..." as we see here in this thread.
Statement: "Wierwille Plagiarized Lenard and Stiles"
Reply: "Yes, but that does not mean it was wrong."
Statement: "Folks got delivered via PFAL"
Reply: "Yes but, that does not mean it is all doctrinally correct"
Funny how it works both ways, huh?
Oak, I know that this can be annoying at times but perhaps it brings some "balance" to the discussion. What do ya think?
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Hmm?
That may seem kinda anti-Semitic to some folks. As if were God's will to wipe out millions of Jews at the hands of Hitler.
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The more I read some of Leonard's stuff the more I see how he influcenced Wierwille. It seems that some terms used by TWI were coined or previously taught by Leonard - like "gift ministry".
quote:
"I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE that any person who has received (or will receive) the Baptism of the Spirit, and the Spiritual Gifts, will be led into his/her gift ministry during the two-weeks course;" (B.G. Leonard)
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Testing
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Nice Post Dot,
Thanks for sharing that.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Rafael Asked,
quote:
Actutally, I'd say no.
If you change a Word of God's Word, then you no longer have God's Word, right?
Translation many times changes words and reorders them, yet if the idea, thought, concept or intended message is accuratey relayed then nothing is lost -it remains God's Word.
Plagiarism does not just involve words, sentence scructure, phrases or paragraphs. It applies to ideas and concepts as well.
Leonard Wrote:
quote:
"One day God spoke to me. "If thou wilt wait patiently before me, I will give thee the revelation concerning that which is written in my Word touching these things; the revelation my people need to bring them out of their chaos and confusion."
Wierwille said in SNS #214
quote:
Amazing. It seems that VPW not only plagiarized Leonard's class and books, but he also may have stolen (plagiarized) the account of God speaking to him in 1942. The similarities are undeniable.
"...God revealed Himself to me and talked to me and told me as plain as day that, if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first generation,..."
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Deleted
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Psalmy,
To make your image "spin"m or move around you need some software that allows you to do that - an animation program.
I have used Easy Gif Animator with is free for the download on thw Internet.
http://www.blumentals.net/download/
This is not automatic software, you will need to do some editing an stuff, but it works pretty good.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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quote:
I guess ole VP would have to come to you in a vision and say, "Mike, those Gspotters are right, I plagerized. Now have some Drambuie and chill out.
Hmmn?
A man is siting at his desk, dilegenty working PFAL, looking for more hidden truths in his quest for mastery. Obedient to the last lost teaching of the Teache, r he finds a sentence that looks interesting and then..... a voice from seemingly nowhere:
Mike!, Mike!,
Shaken a bit, Mike begins to look around the dimly lit room - and there in the corner is the figure of a man, sitting in the easy chair. In his right hand is a small glass, half-full of liquer - Drambuie. Bwtween his fingers is a cigartette - a Kool.
Mike, still somewhat dazed, then realizes who it is in the room, or at least who it appears to be. It is the teacher himself.
Snapping to, Mike then says to himself; "This is the vision I have been waiting for this is...". But before he could finish his thought the teacher says, "Get up and come over here son."
Mike gets up from his chair and approaches the Teacher. "What the hell are you doing son?", the Teacher asks in a somewhat irritated voice.
"I am obeying your final teaching and mastering the new word that God gave you. I am looking for..." But before he can finish the Teacher says, "The hell with that crap son. You got it all wrong." "What?" says Mike, But you said that..."
"Shut up and listen Mike. Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. PFAL was something I put together to present some keys so that people could start understanding the Bible - to get to the Word of God. PFAL was just..."
"I won't listen to this" interrupts Mike. "You are wrong. I know that God gave you PFAL, and that it is the Word of..."
"Shut up and listen Mike" Says the teacher, " The truth is that I copied a lot of PFAL from others and did not get them proper credit. And about that snowstorm in 1942, Well son..."
Mike put his fingers in his ears and closes his eye tight and repeat to himself. "This is not real, this is not real", this is not real."
After a few minutes he take his fingers out of this ears and slowly open his eyes. The Teacher is gone without a trace.
Relieved, he thinks to himself, "This proves that I am right, that PFAL is indeed the true word oF God and that Satan will do anything to try and steal it from me and the rest of the world."
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Mike,
quote:
To hold You to intelectual honesty is equally ludicrous.
To hold Dr to academic standards is ludicrous.
quote:
He was referring to the Bible Mike. The PFAL book clearly names VPW's as the author.
Dr often stated ?I didn?t write the book!? and I know he often downplayed the idea of origination.
quote:
Then why did VPW call TWI a "Research and Teaching Ministry". Sounds kind of "academic" to me.
We're supposed to be a FAMILY, not an academic institution
quote:
Wrong! Dicsussing the subject of "orgination" of PFAL sheds light upon source of the work and the character of VPW. To deny it clouds the truth about how PFAL really came about and it's obviously uninspired nature.
To bring up the subject of "origination" to cloud this wonderful truth of God's success is not good.
quote:
Mike, Take your stupid message and shove it up your... ( * )
I have a message of good cheer for the family: God succeeded in His work with Dr to bless us FAR MORE than we could ever guess. God gave us His WORD in a far more powerful way than antiquity could.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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I have not used QUickVerse, but I do use the Online Bible Freeware/Shareware software from time to time.
Other than that, I mostly use the Blue Letter Bible or the Bible Gateway . Both have their advantages.
For reading or studying the NT Greek text, I go to the Perseus Tufts site. There you can read the Greek text and every Greek word is linked to a morphological analysis, with Smyth's Greek Grammar only another click away.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext...%3A1999.01.0155
This site is an invaluable tool for those who want to do some work in the Greek text. Many of the Greek classics are there as well - like Josephus' Aniquities of The Jews in both Greek and English with the Greek crossreferenced and linked to morpholigical analysis, dictinary, concordance and lexicon.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
[This message was edited by Goey on October 30, 2003 at 22:33.]
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Me Too Rafael,
By airing this letter, TWI has now made an official acknowledgement of Greasespot Cafe - and it ability to get information to both ex-way people and to innies.
It seems to me that Harve and gang chose GS as the method to get TWI's spin on this situation to many of their own people - those who they can no longer contol and keep off of the Internet and GS. If the past is any indicator, it is certain that TWI dosen't care what the ex-way community or the general public thinks about them, since they have never responded to the many things discussed here, some of which are quite damning. So I gotta believe that Harve's letter to JP is more for the innies who venture onto the Internet than for the rest of us. It is more damage control than anything else. How many more followers can they afford to loose? JP's letter must have struck a real nerve, thus Harve's response - or more accurately, counter attack.
In Harve's letter, he used the word "precedent" in regards to using Greasespot Cafe for this recent communication. Can we possibly assume that this letter to JP is only the first public communication and that there may be more to come?
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Just testing to see if I can post unmoderated here yet.
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Well it seems that Whitedove and maybe one or two others have come the the rescue of VPW and of the CF&S class to lend it some credibility. I give them the golden raspbery award for effort.
I first made the statement that VPW referred to a woman's vigina as ugly. But this was not a verbatim quote. What I actually recall being said was that "there is nothing pretty about it" or something along these lines, thence my use of the word "ugly". I will stand corrected if someone has the actual class tapes and tells me it is not in there. An instructor's guide is a poor source of reference because it does not contain everything said in the class. Furthermore, I question the objectivity of the instructor. It is easy to be unobjective about something that one believes in or spent many years teaching and promoting.
It is also somewhat inappropriate to charge folks with being dishonest or speaking from anger when they post their recollections of what was said in this or any TWI class. Not all negative ideas concerning VPW or his teachings stem from anger, venting and dishonesty. Some come from years of study, soul-searching and just plain common-sense.
Wierwille was a sex pervert. He abused and molested women. He was abusive and ugly to his wife. I think it is quite reasonable to interpret the CF& S class in light of these things. It has nothing to do with dishonesty or anger. Considering VPW's character, I also think it quite reasonable to question his motives in his teachings in this class.
Why was fornication glossed over? Where did inspiration for the masterbation/original sin teaching come from? Why little or nothing on fidelity? Adultery?
I believe its is less than objective to post and comment on only the good parts about this class and not to consider it as a whole. IMO, the CF& S class is a case of a little leaven leavens the whole lump ( Galations 5:9). There is enough "bad" in this class to invalidate it as a whole. I cannot imagine anyone basing their marriage, sex life, and family life upon the content of the CF& S class and using it as an authoritive guide. I highly suspect that it did more harm than good. But this might be a hard pill to swallow for someone who was an instructor of this class for years, thinking it to be a good thing. I understand that.
On another note, VPW revealed his ignorance on sex in this class by some of the things that were taught. It seems pretty clear to me that what he taught as facts were sometimes his opinions or maybe based upon his own personal experiences/preferences. For example, he said to the ladies that if you rub the rim of the penis just so that a man will ejaculate almost immediately. Is this a fact? I don't think so. What man then was VPW referring to?
Is it true that "the way to a man's heart is through his penis"? Does this or should this apply to all Christian men or just the elite Men of God of the Way?
Should a Christian wife really be a whore in the bedroom? Or expected to be one by her husband?
Victor Paul Wierwille was the antithesis of an expert on "Christian Family and Sex and had absolultely no business teaching a class of this nature, yet he did so anyway. Why ?
Maybe some of y'all can look back and see this class as good by picking out the good parts and ignoring the obvious. I instead see a class put together by a depraved man - a pervert and a charlatan, for the main purpose of promoting a culture/sub-culture within his "ministry" where his own perversions were allowed and even condoned - where he could get his "needs" met on a continual basis. A ministry where the women were whores in the bedroom and cooks in the kitchen and gave their husbands (and their ordained male leaders) sexual pleasure (usually unknown to the husbands) to take care of their "needs."
Of course the CF&S class had some good stuff thrown into to it - to lend it some credibility. VPW was not stupid.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Wordwolf,
I was serious.
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((((excathedra)))) miss you too.
Goey,
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CF&S was a sneaky little class where VPW slyly taught his personal preferences and perversions for sex as if they were the defacto standard.
VPW taught that a man's penis was beautiful and magnificant while a woman's vagina was ugly. I'll bet old Vee Pee never knew how to sexuall satisfy a woman, or never really cared to know. He was into getting his own satisifaction - taking care of the Man of God.
He taught in this class that" the way to a man's heart was through his penis", opening the door for premarital and promiscous sex and to women trying to get a man's heart by taking care of that magnificant and beautiful penis. Well, we know what got to old Vee Pee's heart now don't we?
Don't recall if he taught how to get to a woman's heart - but it certainly was not through her vagina because that thing is ugly. Best not look at it.
It was also a class that subtly made men superior to women in most every way.
This class was about VPW's disdain for women, relegating them to sexual and domestic servants of men.
I never took this class seriously.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
Should we go back
in About The Way
Posted
Wonder,
Welcome to Greasespot.
Think about what you said. That you are condsidering going back to TWI becsause you cannot find any fellowship close to the truth.
Maybe you are romanticising the good old days of TWI back before Craig became top dog. If so, those days are gone my friend and they are not comming back. TWI today does not even loosely resemble TWI of the 70's. They are an emeciated corpse of the old TWI.
There is nothing to go back to.
Truth? What truth? The truth that busted up families and ruined peoples lives? Homo-purging truth? Character assination truth? Lying, cheating and stealing truth ? Yea, they've got that.
If TWI was close to the truth it would not be spiritually dead. It would be growing and alive.
Four crucified, no water baptism, the dead not alive now, and Eli Eli can't save your soul or bring love into your heart. They cannot fill the spiritual void if that is what it is. Would you actually return to today's TWI just to be around folks who are like-minded on mostly trivial (and debatable) doctrines?
Christianity is not soley about agreable doctrine and "accuracy" (Waybrain), it is about Jesus Christ and his message. Jesus Christ is the truth.
I suggest that you may have become narrow-minded about what it is to fellowship. You have put emphaisis on "truth", meaning certain doctrines taught in TWI that you happen to agree with, and little emphasis on Truth - Jesus Christ. As long as you put this much weight on your "truth", I doubt that you will find any place that meets your standards for fellowship.
Maybe you should lay aside some of your truth for a while and look for a fellowship that is thriving, where there is love, uncondition giving, kindness, compassion, etc. There you may find the real truth and folks that you can really and truly fellowship with - with God and Christ as the central points of the fellowship and not necessarily agreable doctrine. Set your standards a little higher.
Many here have given you some excellent feedback. I think you would do well to consider what they are saying from their own experiences. Many of us have been where you are.
In any case, I wish you well. And again, welcome to Greasespot Cafe.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"