James Trimm

... you can find a document from the group he splintered off from, when he left to start his own little cult.

If anyone chooses to read my PDF they will find that I was like a loot of you, I left a group because the leader exercised un-biblical leadership and claimed to be my "covering" (In Hebrew "covering and "atonement" are the same work KIPPUR) and the day after I left I was disfellowshipped publicly for the "crime" of "seeking his own way apart from the congregation"... in short I left a "cult" and was "marked for avoidance" for having done so.

I left that group around 1988 and I did not found the reorganization of "Nazarene Judaism" until 1996 so the claim that I split from one group o create another is false. Is Nazarene Judaism a cult? Well I could count on one hand the number of people who we have disfellowshipped since 1996 (nearly fifteen years). Our statement of faith is intentionally broad and short. We believe in unity on the essentials and against division over non-essentials.

James, there are more websites proclaiming you to be a fraud than even TWI has. Go find someone else's playground.

"Hopefully adults know that a lot of what they read on the web is just not right, and just not true. But kids don't know that, they read it and think that it says it, it must be true. … There is no editor on the internet so people can put stuff out there that is just absolutely drop dead wrong."

- Dr. Phil McGraw (Wed. 12-16-09)

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the

strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them

better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,

whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives

valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is

not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually

strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great

devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows

in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he

fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall

never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor

defeat."

- Theodore Roosevelt quotes (American 26th US President (1901-09),

1858-1919)

James, there are more websites proclaiming you to be a fraud than even TWI has. Go find someone else's playground. I would warn those of you who are kind hearted enough to want to assist in educating this person about TWI. He will take what he learns and use it in his attempts to manipulate you.

A simple GOOGLE SEARCH and you can learn about his false Ph.d and many of his deceptive practices.

For someone to have this many negative websites designed specifically to expose him . . . well, like I said, he has more negative press than even TWI has.

FWIW, one of the websites discusses how he at one time purported to have involvement with the Mormons so he could recruit among them as well. And then there is the allged Jewish upbringing, and . . . . you tell him of TWI, you give him amunition.

Actually I have never claimed to have a Ph.D., my Degree is an S.T.D. from a non-accredited Seminary.

But hey these are just silly facts I wouldn't want anyone to get confused with...

TWI believed the garbage on those web sites as well... but after they filed a real lawsuit with real discovery and depositions and prepared for a real trial where the facts matter, they were quite ready to settle rather than go to court. You can put almost anything on the internet, true or false, there is no great internet editor out there...

"Hopefully adults know that a lot of what they read on the web is just not right, and just not true. But kids don't know that, they read it and think that it says it, it must be true. … There is no editor on the internet so people can put stuff out there that is just absolutely drop dead wrong."

- Dr. Phil McGraw (Wed. 12-16-09)

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the

strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them

better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,

whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives

valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is

not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually

strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great

devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows

in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he

fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall

never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor

defeat."

- Theodore Roosevelt quotes (American 26th US President (1901-09),

1858-1919)

My response to some of the other Slander that has been posted about me on the internet:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8857000/8857710/1/print/sl2.pdf

My response to accusations of plagiarism and copyright infringement:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8850000/8850159/1/print/jstrimm3.pdf

You said it sister!

I make no claims to being a prophet.

Yeah, well good luck with that James. Most of the regulars in the doctrinal forum have known me for going on 10 years now and we have had many discussions about Torah, about our lives and families. And they know what about you, exactly????

How can you say, "We are wise, and the Torah of YHWH is with us"?

Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.

The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken.

Behold they have rejected the Word of YHWH;

So what wisdom do they have?

(Jer. 8:8-9)

In other words, those who accept the Word of YHWH (that is the Messiah, see Jn. 1:1-3, 14) are a better source for Torah wisdom, than those who reject the Word of YHWH (Messiah).

Chabad does NOT reject Messiah. Perhaps they reject YOUR Messiah, but they most certainly do not reject Messiah.

and yes, yes I would regard Rabhbinic Jews as a better authority on Torah.

My Messiah is Yeshua and if you advocate rejecting the incarnate truth, then that tells us enough about your credibility.

Or, if one wants a reliable source for information on "lashon hora" one could go to Chabad.org and look it up there. Or look it up on Jewfaq.org or a number of other websites designed by people who actually practice Judaism, study Torah, and understand it. Which, btw, James clearly does not.

BTW, James, using yourself as a source does not add validity to a logical argument/discussion/debate. For that, one must use other reference material.

I was not quoting myself as a source... if you would actually read the directives the moderator recently gave us we were asked to post links rather than cut and paste. So rather than paste what I have written in the past on Lashon Hara I have posted this link to it:

http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/lashon-hara

Which is mostly a collection of quotations from Scripture, with some commentary that is pretty literally drawn from it.

And then I posted this link:

http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/lashon-hara-by-mikahael-ben

Which I did not write.

I find it odd that you say I am not Torah Observant but claim that Chabad is. Chabad rejects the Messiah. The Torah specifically forbids us from rejecting Messiah (Deut. 18:18-19). Moreover the Messiah is the Torah incarnate, so in rejecting Messiah one is rejecting the incarnate Torah. Why would you regard Messiah rejecting Rabbinic Jews as a better authority than Messiah accepting Nazarene Jews?

James, it appears as if you came here to recruit, therefore you have opened yourself up to a trial of sorts. You want to preach your propaganda then the people will try you, if they are wise, before they follow you. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice . . . .

Also, you clearly do not understand the true concept of "Lashon HaRa."

In another thread you comment that you do not see in my words "how to live and love"... I responded "Torah"

Here is what the Torah says about how to love one another:

You shall not go up and down as a talebearer

among your people; neither shall you stand idly

by the blood of your neighbor: I am YHWH.

You shall not hate your brother in your heart.

You shall in no way rebuke your neighbor,

nor bring sin upon him,

You shall not avenge nor bear any grudge

against the children of your people,

but you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

I am YHWH.

(Lev. 19:16-18)

One of the ways we love our neighbour is by not being a "talebearer" that we "in no way rebuke [our] brother".

Is that the kind of love I have found Doctrinal sub-forum? Or have I been the target of talebearing and rebuke?

Every time I read James' posts the phrase "straining at gnats" keeps going through my head. It is a lot of wordsmithing with no apparent real understanding of how to live and love. It is exactly as it was in TWI. Make oneself sounds scholarly and intellectual by arguing about words. Its a shell game.

Ummm... the topic of the thread is Hebrew and Aramaic New Testament Origins, not "how to live and love" although I can discuss that topic in another thread. Typically my answer would be one word "Torah" but that is my doctrine. And although a moderator moved this discussion to "doctrinal" it is intended as an academic rather than doctrinal discussion.

James, it appears as if you came here to recruit, therefore you have opened yourself up to a trial of sorts. You want to preach your propaganda then the people will try you, if they are wise, before they follow you. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice . . . .

Also, you clearly do not understand the true concept of "Lashon HaRa."

If anyone wants a good understanding of Lashon HaRa you can look at the following:

http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/lashon-hara

http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/lashon-hara-by-mikahael-ben

No I did not come here to "recruit" I came here originally because I was being sued by the Way International. After the suit ended I began discussing other topics, one of which was doctrinal so it was moved to the doctrine section.

It is logical to conclude that anyone that has a doctrine and posts in favor of it is by definition "recruiting"... why am I different?

Should not doctrine be debated on its own merits rather than falling into the logic error of attacking the one presenting an argument rather than responding to the argument?

Besides I have already responded to every one of these false accusations in my two PDF files, that should be sufficient to say that has been covered now lets talk about doctrine. Everything that can be said on the subject of attacking James Trimm has already been said and already been responded to, so there is nothing more to say on that topic.

No, although I had stated many of those facts before, that was a newly composed post which i typed one letter at a time. I might have restated facts because they are still true.

Point to note here for those who think this argument is circular because James has pasted this reponse before: James said he would post something new (unpasted) if anyone would post an objection not addressed in previous pastes - obviously a condescending response. Johnj's post was not addressed previously, yet James posted a paste that didn't even address Johnj's post. Apparently, James can't address thoughts outside his own box - or even recognize them.

Tom

http://www.aramaicpedangta.com/Online_Version/dont_know_aramaic.htm'>http://www.aramaicpedangta.com/Online_Version/dont_know_aramaic.htm

The below short and to the point analysis is taken from the above web site link. This is a web site that says some of the same stuff that James has been saying about how good the Aramaic texts are and how bad the Greek texts are. Of course, a Greek translator would not agree. I wonder if the Greek translators complain about the Aramaic texts? Well maybe that can be for another topic.

http://www.aramaicpedangta.com/ Online_Version/dont_know_aramaic.htm

Unfortunately the Hebrew/Aramaic origins crowd has become slit into two groups:

Pedangta Primacy Theory and Critical Text Theory.

Pedangta Primacy is to Aramaic origins what the Majority Text and Textus Receptus supporters are to Greek Origins Textual Criticism. They insist that the Pedangta is the original inspired original Aramaic NT. (In both cases this points to the Byzantine type text, for the Majority Text, the Textus Receptus and the Pedangta are all Byzantine type texts.

Critical Text Theory (this is my party) maintain that we must apply objective rules of textual criticism to a wide variety of Hebrew and Aramaic texts (and even take into account the textual history of Greek and Latin versions as they express underlying Hebrew and/or Aramaic) in order to arrive at the best possible most original Hebrew/Aramaic text. This is comparable to the Critical text position in textual criticism in Greek origin textual criticism. One major difference, however is that the Greek Critical text theory tends to support the Greek Alexandrian type text, while the Aramaic Critical theory points to the Western type text as oldest (The Old Syriac for example is a "Westernt" type text (as laid out in my book The Hebrew and Aramaic Origin of the New Testament at http://www.lulu.com/nazarene ) (in fact the "Western" type used to be called the "Syro Latin" text type because of the affinity between the Old Syriac, the Old Latin and the Greek Western text.

Unfortunately many of those who subscribe to the Pedangta Primacy theory take things personally and make personal rather than academic arguments.

I'm not going to respond to most of this now. However, the more I learn about victor paul wierwille,

the more I see that he took ideas from everyone else with no original ideas of his own.

(With the possible exception of saying that God thought orgies were acceptable but not "best".)

This one here on Holy Spirit almost certainly came from Bullinger's

"Word Studies on the Holy Spirit"

(formerly known as "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" or something like that.)

That's the book that goes through all the usages of the term in the New Testament

and attempted to document exactly what it referred to in each case.

(Presuming they meant different things.)

Thanks for the clarification.

The point is not just that there is an utter lack of any actual Hebrew texts of NT books until the 13/14th century... But instead there are literally thousands of Greek copies (whole or partial) of NT books. And many of these were produced in places like Syria and Israel (the famous bishop Eusebius who had Greek NTs produced was bishop of Caesarea), where Trimm imagines everyone spoke Aramaic.

If in fact the early church was full of Hebrew/ Aramaic speakers and had a complete lack of Greeks, as Trimm imagines, the opposite would be true. We're looking at actual textual evidence here, not speculation.

There are some fundamental problems with your argument. To begin with we could say almost the same thing about the Book of Esther. The oldest Hebrew copy of Esther dates only to the Middle Ages (9th century C.E.) and by far the oldest copies are Greek LXX copies from the 4th century CE. Also prior to the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls (in which no copies of Esther were found) this was true of the entire "Old Testament". But everyone agrees on a Hebrew origin for Esther and the rest of the "Old Testament". Interestingly there are 1,500 years between the events of Ester and the oldest Hebrew copy... same as Matthew.

A similar situation occurs with the Apocryphal book of Tobit. Before the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered the oldest Hebrew copy of Tobit was published in the 1500's by a guy named Munster who claimed to have obtained it from among the Jews. Soms scholars actually argued that Tobit had been originally written in Greek and that Munster's Hebrew was just a late Hebrew translation from a Greek or Latin source... and then Hebrew Tobit turned up in the Dead Sea Scrolls, settling the issue. Funny thing is that this same Munster is the one that published the Munster editions of Hebrew Matthew and Hebrew Hebrews which he claimed to have obtained from the Jews in the 1500's.

Now there are over 5,000 Greek mss. but few of them are ancient (BTW there are over 10,000 Latin mss. but that does not mean the NT was written in Latin)

Of the Ancient Greek mss there are a handful (less than 10) of fairly complete Greek codecies which date back to the 4th to 6th century and there are a comparable number of ancient Aramaic mss. from about this same time periods.

Now there are about 100 Greek Papri fragments which date from the second century to the 7th century. Several of these predate the 4th century.

Now lets discuss these Papri fragments for a moment... these are all (or almost all) found in Egypt, where hot dry conditions contributed to their preservation. Egypt was the center of Hellenism in this part of the world. The Egyptian Christians used Greek texts, just as the Egyptian Jews used the Greek LXX "Old Testament". So the mss. that we find there are Greek. In fact even mss. of books of the Old Testament that we KNOW were written in Hebrew are found in the Papyri fragments only in Greek and never in Hebrew.

I have not responded to many questions because the most efficient way to do so would have been to cut and paste. There are few doctrinal issues I have not already covered in my books and articles. however I have been asked not to cut and paste and more, so that leaves me having to spend hours recomposing what I have already composed.

I have no need to put myself on trial here. I just spent nearly a year in discovery and depositions preparing for trial by TWI and in the end they chose to settle rather than go to trial. I have no intention of now being the subject of a witch trial by ex-TWIers.

Our beliefs must be big enough to include all of the facts, open enough to be tested, and flexible enough to change.

If anyone wants to discuss doctrine then you can email me at cleartruth@yahoo.com

If you want to engage in Lashon HaRa and Slander attacking me rather than my doctrinal arguments, then enjoy yourselves.

Lashon HaRa is the sin of using words as a weapon to harm someone.

It is amazing how many people who would never think of picking up a baseball bat and attacking someone with it, will take up words (true or false) and use them as a weapon to attack a person. This is as wrong as picking up a baseball bat and using it as a weapon. And the man who says that he is only repeating what he read or heard, is like a man who uses a baseball bat to attack someone and then insists that he is not responsible because he did not manufacture the bat!

My response to the slander about me is here:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8857000/8857710/1/print/sl2.pdf

And my response to the false claims of Copyright Infringement and Plagiarism of the HRV are:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8850000/8850159/1/print/jstrimm3.pdf

Well now that the suit is over I thought I would post some of my own thoughts on VPW.

It appears to me from VPW’s conglomerate theology that he must have early on studied with the following three groups:

1. Millerites (Probably Jehovah’s Witnesses, since most other Millerites stress a 7th Day Sabbath which VPW never seems to have embraced. And VERY few who accept a 7th Day Sabbath ever decide that was wrong and then embrace Sunday Keeping afterward, if VPW had made such a move, one would expect him to have made a point of pushing Sunday and teaching against the 7th Day Sabbath as an “error”, but if he ever did this at all, it was not a major focus). From Millerites he picked up teachings like: Rejecting Deity of Messiah; Soul Sleep (non-immortality of the soul- rejection of literal Hell). Also the idea that the “gallows” on which Yeshua was impaled was a “stake” only and was not T-shaped is shared by the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

2. Dispensationalists- Probably Plymouth Brethren – with a strong lean toward Bullinger ultra-Dispensationalim.

3. Pentecostals – From which he derived Holy Spirit Baptism, speaking in Tongues, casting out demons etc. (concepts and practiced repudiated by the above two groups. It is also here that the “Abundant Living” concept came.

Finally he seems to have been impressed by George Lamsa’s claims about an Aramaic NT Origin.

Add one original idea, that the term Holy Spirit can refer to either The Holy Spirit or very distinctly to our own holy spirit within us.

Throw it all in a blender and you get VPW theology.

I suspect that VPW spend many years early on in his own search for truth, latching onto the above ideas as bits of truth that he believed he was discerning in his own voyage through various teachings.

I personally think that he was wrong about most of the above teachings. However I think that his interest in Lamsa was a case of serendipity. What I mean is that Lamsa’s scholarship was a shipwreck, but he carried forward a tradition which he (Lamsa) had received from his Assyrian upbringing that the NT was originally written in Aramaic and that the Pedangta was related to that original Aramaic (Lamsa strongly believed the Pedangta WAS that original). VPW was no major scholar but he influenced people that were and some of those people were able to peruse the idea of the Aramaic origin of the NT with serious scholarship. That scholarship was a brief flash in the pan just before and just after his death. I believe hey were on the right track in regards to NT origins… they were able to bring the earlier “liberal school” research of serious scholars like C.C. Torrey, Charles Fox Burney, Matthew Black and others into a context that actually accepted the inspiration of the New Testament.

I had little knowledge of the Way efforts until the 1990’s by which time, I had independently gone through the same process (re-evaluating Lamsa’s tradition and Torrey, Burney and Black’s liberal Scholarship in a new context, one that recognized the inspiration of the NT). I also did this between 1984 and the early 1990’s.

And another classic moment:

Q. [Colombo] I notice also looking at this transcript that unlike any other transcript I've ever seen, it doesn't say when you took any of the courses; is that correct?

A. [Trimm] I can't testify as to what you've seen.

My apologies, I did mention a Frau Q-Tip (whomever she may be) but it was not in the same context as your posts. I guess you had to see it in the original....or know that much of what is referred to here is in the context of what common experiences are shared by those who left. I wish you all the best, James.

It is ironic to me...that you are here...on a forum of ex-cultists ranting about their x-cult. You, yourself, seem to be ranted about quite a bit by people who followed you....What's up with that?

This reminds me of a humorous moment from my deposition. The subject of Watchman Fellowship had come up. (I wrote some articles for Watchman Fellowship back in 1993 and one of their researchers had written me a letter we were discussing.

Q. What's Watchman Fellowship?

A. I'm sure The Way International is very familiar with Watchman Fellowship.

Q. Just tell me what it is please.

A. They're an anti-cult watch group.

Q. What does that mean?

A. That means that they actively seek to alert the mainline Christian community about groups that they consider para Christian cults, ranging from the Mormons to the Jehovah's Witnesses to The Way International.

My apologies, I did mention a Frau Q-Tip (whomever she may be) but it was not in the same context as your posts. I guess you had to see it in the original....or know that much of what is referred to here is in the context of what common experiences are shared by those who left. I wish you all the best, James.

It is ironic to me...that you are here...on a forum of ex-cultists ranting about their x-cult. You, yourself, seem to be ranted about quite a bit by people who followed you....What's up with that?

BTW The Q-tip thread I referred to was here:

My apologies, I did mention a Frau Q-Tip (whomever she may be) but it was not in the same context as your posts. I guess you had to see it in the original....or know that much of what is referred to here is in the context of what common experiences are shared by those who left. I wish you all the best, James.

It is ironic to me...that you are here...on a forum of ex-cultists ranting about their x-cult. You, yourself, seem to be ranted about quite a bit by people who followed you....What's up with that?

If anyone follows me I hope it is only as I follow Messiah. I only wish people to follow Torah and Messiah. The few who have accused me of being a "Cult leader" are rarely people who were ever associated with Nazarene Judaism. We just practice a form of Judaism that recognizes Yeshua as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism.

In fact not only did we not admit to "plagiarizing" anything, I have a document "signed by each party" which the Court refers to as "a stipulation and agreement by the parties as to the facts recited in the document". This document states "Defendant's deny that they violated the Plaintiff's copyrights, nevertheless, the Parties have agreed to resolve this matter in accordance with a Settlement Agreement..."

Just to clear up some minor points, at no point did anyone from the way come to my home in Hurst Texas.

We did have two court ordered Settlement meetings several months ago. One was at an Law Office in Fort Worth that was working with their Ohio attorney. The other was held at the Judge's court Jury room in Fort Worth. In another thread someone mentioned a female they called Frau Q-Tip or something... as having flown to DFW for these meetings. Actually the TWI attorney flew in with a male rep from TWI. Also the Ohio attorney flew in and spent many hours (basically all day) deposing me on another occasion.

Also, obviously we did not agree to "admit" that we had "plagiarized" anything.

Anyway, just to set the story straight.

For those following this thread, I thought you might want to read this post from another site, from someone (one of our detractors) who had consulted with TWI against us on this case:

Shalom Chaverim,

Well, let it now and forever be said that I TRIED, as did Kathyern Kern, and

Vickie Dillen, to bring the criminal, and wanna be Jew, James Scott Trimm, to

JUSTICE.

I sold my copy of the HRV New Testament to The Way International, gave them a

guided tour of all of the internet websites about Trimm's plagiarism.

And I spent a very long time with them on the telephone as well.

Now, I'll tell you what they (The Way) told me over the telephone:

They and their attorney traveled to Hurst, Texas (a surburb of the

Dallas/Ft.Worth metroplex) two times to visit Trimm at his home.

They offered him "a deal", where he COULD KEEP PUBLISHING HIS HRV "BIBLE", if he

would only acknowledge (ADMIT) that he had plagiarized their 3 volume

Aramaic-English Interlinear New Testament.

The Way International seems to have settled this lawsuit without winning one

thin dime!

If you read his propaganda piece below, you'll see that The Way seems to have

settled for nothing outside an admittance on newly printed copies of the HRV

"Bible" that some of the material came from their Aramaic-English Interlinear

New Testament.

Trimm is back to saying that NO ONE was EVER ripped off by him or his Nazarene

Society for the Advancement of Judaism.

Trimm NEVER admits that he actually MET Paul Younan in person and could not

speak even two minutes of Syriac in a conversation with Younan.

If you CAN'T SPEAK IT, HOW can you TRANSLATE IT??

It seems that he (Trimm) has also gotten an apology out of Andrew Gabriel Roth,

another Nazarene plagiarist, proving once for all time, that birds of a feather,

really DO stick together.

The Way flat out told me that Trimm translated not only their successes from

their Aramaic English New Testament, but ALSO THAT HE TRANSLATED THEIR MISTAKES,

and by Trimm doing that alone, THIS ABSOLUTELY PROVED BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT

that he had PLAGIARIZED their (The Way) New Testament.

Well, I TRIED.

I honestly believe that this is one more thing that seems to say that we are

literally in The End of Days.

Plainly, evil triumphed here over righteousness and good.

I'm 58 years old now, and as God is my Witness, I will NEVER have anything to do

with the so-called Nazarene Movement again for the rest of my life.

With people at the helm like James Trimm and Andrew Gabriel Roth, the Nazarene

Movement is shipwrecked, and will forever continue to be so.

TRUTH against the world, Albion Guppy

From the criminal James Trimm:

Shalom Friends,

I have a very important announcement.

As many of you know The Way International had filed a lawsuit against myself and

the WNAE (under our old name of SANJ) this last summer, alleging that portions

of the HRV Scriptures infringed on the copyright of a translation they once

published about twenty years ago.

We responded by arguing that the lawsuit itself was unconstitutional on the

basis that Bible translation is Scripture interpretation and Scripture

interpretation is doctrine. (The US Supreme court has ruled that the

Establishment Clause of the Bill of Rights forbids the court from adjudicating

property disputes between religious groups where hearing the case would require

the court to consider, weigh or interpret doctrine, or resolve doctrinal

issues.) In this case hearing such a case would put the government in the

position of regulating Scripture interpretation, and that we as an Establishment

of Religion may interpret the Scriptures as we see fit.

We also responded by stating that the HRV is an original translation made

directly from Hebrew and Aramaic sources and that close agreement with the AEINT

is to be expected since both are (at places) literal translations of the

Pedangta, and that such similarities fall within the legal doctrine of merger.

Furthermore we argued that any use the AEINT made of the HRV was within the four

criteria of the fair use law and was also permitted by an implied license, and

thus did not constitute copyright infringement.

I am pleased to announce that after a process of discovery and taking of

depositions, The Way International has chosen to settle their lawsuit rather

than take it to trial. As part of the settlement they have issued us a permanent

license with no monetary consideration. Also as part of the settlement we have

maintained that there was no copyright infringement on our part, however we have

also agreed as part of this license agreement, to henceforth give credit in

editions of the HRV to the TWI version. (Thus allegations of copyright

infringement are forever ended.).

We have always maintained that a final stage in the translation of the HRV

involved comparing with previous translations of the Aramaic so as to insure

that the HRV presented the best possible translation of each and every word and

phrase, and so we have no problem giving them due credit. In fact we will be

crediting several other works that were referenced as well.

We maintain our use of the TWI edition was legal fair use and was also permitted

under an implied license, but for the record there is now a formal license as

well. Where there is a formal license in place there can be no question of

either copyright infringement or plagiarism.

With this suit behind us, we can now freely answer our critics who have accused

us of plagiarism and copyright infringement. We have compiled a document from

the evidence we had originally planned to present in court which demonstrates

that the Hebraic Roots Version is an original and independent translation made

directly from Hebrew and Aramaic sources, not infringing on anyone's copyright.

This PDF document (about 50 pages) settles this issues once and for all and can

be downloaded at:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8850000/8850159/1/print/jstrimm3.pdf

Post taken from:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/15006

Back in July of 1994 I faxed some of my research on Aramaic New Testament Origins and some of my early translation work to The Way International Research Team.

A few days later I got this letter in the mail telling me that the Research Team had been disbanded:

I sent it to the "Research Team" because they were listed as the authors of the Pedangta Concordance.

Since that time I have also gotten a couple of GMIR articles on Aramaic NT origins, one by Karen Masterson and the other by Daniel McConaughy Ph.D. back in 1984/85.

My question (because I was not there):

What was the nature and function of the Research Team? Where Masterson and McConaughy members of this team? Were there people working on the Aramaic research that were not on this team?

I would love some insight into the Aramaic origins research and work that were taking place back then.

Why was the team disbanded? Why was the Aramaic research ended? Who were the Research Team members? I am really curious about this element in TWI history.

First off I did not threaten anyone. I simply stated my disapointment that libel was being posted, and when a poster said that they were only reposting what they read elsewhere, I pointed out that that is still libel.

As for "lazy"... are you kidding me? Do you have any idea how many hours a week I work? I have written over 20 books, am currently working on three books, I also have a weekly radio show, weekly Sabbath teachings both of which must be prepared for each week. I have also written several free lessons for the free Davar Bible School Bible Correspondence course and currently teach a Tanak Survey 1A class. And on top of that I have written over 400 teaching blogs in the last two years (http://www.nazarenespace.com). On top of all of that I care for my disabled wife, and play Mr. Mom to five children, one of whom is legally blind. When I cut and paste, I am cutting and pasting from my own books, blogs etc. I really can't deal with being called "lazy".

There's that "Cult" mentality. Besides your rebuttals mostly show you disagree, not that others are actually wrong. Most of what they basically accuse you of is being lazy, apt to take shortcuts - unwilling to respond to questions, an misreprestenting yourself as something more of a scholar then you are.

So far, at GreaseSpot, your actions support their claims. The lazy part especially, with all the cut and paste stuff. God only knows if it's your work or borrowed. But a lot of it is wrong, so I think you'd be best off claiming you copied it. I'm going to bet right now, and offhand, that I know Hebrew better then you do. I draw this conclusion from mistakes you make (plus there's the fact that I know Hebrew and Yiddish quite well). I could prove that out on a conference call, if you want to do that.

It would seem though, that you don't want to be a Christian, and that you consider them the enemy, your enemy. You've made it clear that you are of the sect of the Messiah's Nazarene Jews or something and that Christians are soup sandwiches, Jews are soup sandwiches, and you have the truth. You, and only those who believe exactly as you say (or cut & Paste), are right - naturally, everyone else has it wrong, and persecutes you unjustly.

It's a tired song. If you were the only one alive with the truth, I think people would stay away from you. First, you too defensive to attract anything but your own choir, and second - you seem to respond to people with threats, whines or the ULTIMATE,... well,... who cares (or words to thet effect).

You'd be best off to leave here with your dignity intact soon, or develop a new attitude, unless you live for heartache. You never answered my questions, when I've asked them, and it seems that if you get too many unfavorable comments (THAT MEANS - everyone didn't agree with you), you abandon your own thread rather than answer. This church thread is just you wttempt to carry on your "Dispensing with Dispensationalism" which you apparently 'dispensed' with, yet you're right back in the saddle here in this thread - answering nothing and cutting and pasting.

It's interesting to see that you took the time to threaten Roy,.....

Right from the heart, that it was.... one of your first heartfelt remarks that you actually took the time to write personally.

I hope the EVENT, made you proud...!!?

Nothing to cut and paste for him.........?

God first

thanks James Trimm

James I did not slander you but I wrote as I found it others see for them self and made a fare debate about your words

i do know if they are wrong or right

because I am not to join your church means nothing

that what found on a fast search

I do judge anyone but me

with love and a holy kiss Roy

There is no difference legally between libel/slander and repeating lible/slander you have read/heard somewhere else.