Patriot

"Potlucks" are of the debil :evildenk:/>

If you are a real believer, a 'believing believer' which is the only kind of believer

in the way, you only attend "Pot Blesses." :who_me:/>

OK - join in with me everyone.....

Christmas, Christmas, Christmas...Lucky, Lucky, Lucky....I hope, I hope, I hope....

create a document, create a memo, Hawaiian Island Creations,....Oooh, am I being devilish :evilshades:/>

So here's a question (maybe it should be a new topic).....

As LCM eventually was removed, can Rosie be removed? If so, how?

Maybe LCM just resigned amidst the scandal, pressure and lawsuit. But, if

Rosie did something illegal, or at least what the majority of BOD and Officers

disagreed with, could they collectively exile her?

Was there ever any coup attempt? From what I heard, many of the rank-and-file

followers were 'hoping' for things to get better.

Those who are getting money from TWI...they're one thing. It's like Shamu the killer whale...after many years,

fearing they may turn them back out to the wild oceans to fend for themselves. It's a real fear!

But what must they think about the current state of TWI? Maybe some of these folks are sincerely, really great people.

Even if they have no plans to depart (the 'spiritual rust' and maybe family ties will keep them there), what must they

reason or think...knowing the past it was growing, flourishing, and at least registered on the radar for outsiders. Now

even the outsiders are just former insiders (including ourselves). Do their hearts break, thinking of what is compared to

what used to be? Are they optomistic, still believing things are great, and are unaware of the state of things?

Just for this post....

Let's set aside the argument whether TWI was legit or corrupt from the beginning.

My deep confusion is with many of the very long-standing staff or leaders in TWI today.

Let's take it from, say the 70's, 80's and 90's.

They saw the way TWI was in the past. Huge groups of people. Huge events. Huge WOW and

Corps training groups. Classes all over. Secular recognition (although not usually positive)

as a rapidly growing ministry (cult). Every state having work in it. Huge international and

military outreach works. Generally speaking, a lot of 'stuff' going on.

To say that things today are a shadow of what they once were is a huge overstatement. I'm pretty sure

that even those TWI long-time insiders would agree. So what keeps them there? Are the same guys playing

piano & organ? Same angry guy yelling at everyone doing AV? Do they not remember the past 'glory' and honestly

wonder 'why not now?' What is it they 'really' think?

So, is it

• The Kool-Aid effect has never worn off?
  
• They are living in fear of leaving 'the true household'?
  
• They are afraid of leaving the lifestyle they are accustomed to (can't be the pay)?
  
• They are afraid of losing the status, position, prestige that they now have (can't be the pay)?
  
• They really believe the apparent 'dry spell' will eventually subside, and the former 'glory will return?
  
• They are afraid of leaving what they are used to, and for some, being paid for, and not knowing what to do for a job?
  

So, in essence, they've seen the difference between before, and current. What are their thoughts?

Anyone? Anyone? Buller?

Interesting....

Recently heard from another insider how they've been waiting and waiting for a new leader who would

make everything all better. It seems like a familiar dream to many insiders.

From what I understood, most people on the inside absolutely hate life inside,

see the hypocrisy, control, and are totally BORED! The only reason they hang around is, because

they anticipate the next coming of....someone who will replace Rozie and her crew, and make it a

vital household.

And people say the Jews are silly for awaiting their savior's first coming.....

Do they really expect Rozie to turn over the control to someone else while she is alive?

Looking for an update. Did Howard and Wanda ever tie the knot?

Can anyone confirm? Is there any public record of it?

Curious minds want to know.

Speaking from a military-experienced perspective, I loved when Congressman Allen West said that he'd walk through hell with full gas cans for his troops. Regardless of your political leanings, you have to appreciate his devotion to his subordinate troops. He lost his position by (allegedly) putting a gun to the head of a terrorist, in order to get them to spill the beans on an upcoming attack on US troops. The terrorist did, and it saved lives. West got in big trouble. That's when he said he'd do whatever it took to take care of his people.

When we had real good leaders, they were people who actually cared about the people 'below' their oversight. They had a duty of loyalty to those they were responsible for. When they lived that way, you saw it. All of the people lower in rank ate before them, because if there was a meal missing, they would miss it and not those they were responsible to/for. To me, that was real leadership. When you had leaders above you like that, you'd gladly walk through fire for them.

Loyalty started top down first. They gave us a reason to be loyal to them (like with God, He loved us first, then we loved Him back). Most of what I saw in TWI was people being 'bosses' and not 'leaders.'

I think it's nice that they have put a figure to represent every remaining Way fellowship.

I'm not sure its a figure for every remaining fellowship...I think it may be a figure for every

person remaining. If not, it may be for everyone at the head table at HQ.

Interesting topic

Some...especially those who are / have been on staff, for DECADES just don't

want to take a stand and declare independence. They've become mentally comfortable

with the systems and chains. As a matter of fact, those systems they've made homes in,

and the chains are no more than decorations and jewelery.

They see the wrong, yet to keep the status quo, they

rationalize. For example, the Mooneyhands were mentioned. Where would

they go? What would they do? Where would they find elevated positions that they are

used to? And if they were to depart, would their son? Would he reject them as 'copouts?'

Some...may still 'believe' they're in the only organization that God regards. To them,

there is nothing else. And they'll go down with the ship. Sincere and admirable...but IMO, wrong

and misguided.

Once, I was also a full-time Corps/employee of TWI. When they were in cost cutting measures, and many

in the Corps had to get jobs, I remember talking with others who were also in paid positions.

My Region coordinator admitted, he was terrified at the idea, since neither he or his wife had

college, much meaningful work experience or skills, and now had two young kids. They felt they had to tow the line.

And their job was to convince all others (believers, Corps, twig coordinators, etc.) that TWI

was the genuine thing....even if they had serious doubts. My wife and I saw that, and actually went the

other direction. We requested volunteer positions, against the wishes of all our leadership.

Once we got off the dole, we refused to live in the same status quo fear and bondagethat so many

others secretly lived in (although we discussed among ourselves) and eventually were

led to declare our own independence. Free to live, love, and serve our Father! Now we love life,

(own a beautiful home, and a prosperous business) and see things very differently.

So, from a leadership standpoint, many do not leave because they feel trapped, and are afraid (financial,

lack of position / prestige, family members still in TWI, etc.)

Hope this offers a little perspective regarding some still there.

In her mid 70's? For most of TWI's upper elite, I would imagine they'd like to be

'emeritus trustee / director household' by that time. They can have an escort (if single),

be looked highly upon by all the adoring masses, cruise around on a cushman, and be paid to

do so.

I'm just curious if she could handle watching some young buck (or doe) take her place

and then start changing things. Can you imagine, someone else, upon their inauguration,

getting rid of the 'no debt to go to the Advanced Class' standard?

Speaking of which, is H*ward Allen still alive and doing all

of those 'emeritus' Trustee Household activities?

I think the following link says it all. Be sure to scroll down to see Camp Gunnison Inc.

http://highered.colorado.gov/Academics/Colleges/privateaccredited.asp

And just to be sure

The degrees issued by the way international through Camp Gunnison Inc. are WORTHLESS.

But the way international claim they are accredited with degree granting status. What a nasty twist of words they use.

Granting a roll of toilet paper would be more useful.

Oh, the irony is just too funny!

Did you happen to see the 'church' who was listed right above Camp Gunnison? The Brotherhood of the White Temple, Inc. Yep,

they give out the same type of degrees. I went to their website expecting a neo-nazi group....nope, just hard core mysticism (sp).

Still, they have a college and issue degrees. I wonder who has more students in training?

Brotherhood College

The Brotherhood of the White Temple Correspondence College is recognized by the State of Colorado as a bona fide post secondary religious educational institution. The College Work is a series of lessons on every branch of occult, metaphysical and Spiritual Science including healing. These Lessons are divided into four Neophyte and twelve Temple grades...

How does the credit union make money?

One Answer: I believe that they use their money and deposit in the local Botkins banks.

I saw Safety guys (and Paula B)pick up deposits from Finance, and then from the CU each

morning, and take them to both Bank One (now Chase) and Star Bank in Botkins EVERY weekday.

What's funny - they are willing to give their money to banks, that loan out the money, and give

them the interest, that they in turn pay out to their CU members. So, it's kind of like saying

'using and selling drugs is wrong, so we will not let our people do so. However, there is no

problem giving money for someone else to sell them.....who care's about the evil 'unbeliever' (in

their case, this meant anyone...devout Christian or not), who was not in their group, if they

use bad / evil stuff that we contributed to. As long as we make money, and our own people don't.

No one at the CU had any background in investments, financial servics, or such. The CU head honcho wanted to make an arrangement with some local 'believer' who was an investment professional, but he 'copped out.'

An interesting observation. On twi's website, it lists the board of

directors, and gives NO titles to anyone...except her. She is not

the president, but rather the 'chairman.'

Are there no organizational officers for this? (pres, vp, sec treas, etc.)

(I may be wrong...not sure. Just noticed the change)

Isn't the board of directors usually somewhat separated from management?

And isn't it appropriate to call a woman a 'chairwoman' or 'chairperson.'?

She has decided to be the chairMAN in this instance.

Interesting....velly interesting.

Not sure if anyone brought up this part of scheduling. You had to turn in a proposed

schedule every week by Friday to your leadership. They had to review it (including day off

activities),critique or 'approve' it. And the following Sunday or Monday morning, you had

to send an 'actual'schedule - as to what you actually did. They were going to determine if

your changes were valid or 'distraction' from the adversary.

I pitied the RC. He had his wife be the (as her subordinates affectionately refer to her)

schedule Nazi. Wow! What a title.

Bramble, do I understand right? Are you here in Big Sky country?

Thanks T & O for that 'fresh' update!

I'm just curious.....since they are 'advertising' employment,

can they deny employment to what they would call 'unbelievers' or

'copouts'? What are those laws? Isn't there a non-descrimination

law against religion? Just wondering........

From my perspective, we may not be out of date, but I've not seen as much 'fresh'

stuff on what is happening now. I'm sure its still boring as hell.

Things have changed? Did they do away with the 'no debt' policy as a requirement to

attend their advanced class? From their own logic, how does one 'put on all the armor

of God' if they do not operate 6 of 9 manifestations? So they intentionally withhold

insider's instruction on those 6 if they have debt? What it their Biblical justification

to that?

So much for 'Change' that I can believe in!

Yes, Harve seemed to be quite different than the rest.

I know of 2 separate incidents with 2 different people

who were wronged. He went out of his way to personally

fix the situations....for one of them, he made some

high up muckety mucks go back and apologize to the guy who

was wronged.

You cannot have that type of concern at Trustee level, now

can you?

Since it is twi policy not to let anyone be Way Corps or even to hold any leadership role...

and since I knew of several WC who went into debt for one reason or another....

I wonder how aggressively they 'smoke out' those in debt?

Maybe (if they are serious) will pass out more 3x5 cards with 3 options:

A. I am in debt.

B. I am not in debt.

C. I am confused - I'm not sure I know what it is.

Not sure if anyone hit these...but I hate them the most!

Believer - Someone who actively and regularly 'fellowships' with twi (includes ABS).

Unbelieving believer - Someone who is not so faithful to attend or obey twi directives (includes ABS)

Cop Out - Someone who once took a class, or attended a twi fellowship, but no longer does. This status

is permanent, unless they wake up, and prove themselves worthy to return, and do so. This person could

have left, is healing the blind, bringing deliverance, etc........still retains cop-out status.

With regards to "cop out" - twits use it as an insulting term, and is thrown on someone regardless of their

situation or circumstances. On a personal level, this is one of the reasons I started a thread

regarding the term "spin off" often used here, and at times, in a similar manner. Some of those s.o. people

I respect and like what they endeavor to do in sincerity. Just an added thought...not meant to complain or antagonize.

OK - since "Caleb" is not around any longer, I do not believe in him. As a matter of fact, I believe he may

not even exist.

So then, who did this to us, and why? Maybe it was TWI at the command of 'the fox'. Maybe they

just wanted to get us all involved and just to tweak our noses!

So, was it over "when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor....." No!

Anyhow, thought it would be fun to blame the current twi for using a spinoff's name to get us riled up.

www.poopsenders.com (VERY funny!)

Here is one:

I was involved in TWI, and during my time, was Corps and held some different levels of leadership positions. Obviously, I've declared independence, but am still & want to remain zealous for God. Life is really good for us.

Recently, its been on my heart to focus some attention in a specific category of life, and how to apply some Biblical principles in it. Obviously, it starts for my own benefit, but I would really enjoy helping others (whether they were with twi or not) in this category. Am I looking for self-glory or promotion....seriously, NO! Yet, I do not know of anyone else's ministry or church that focuses solely on this category (so it would be kind of a specialty ministry - not to replace other's community church or fellowship, but to provide resources and focus on one important category of life).

I'm not asking for anyone's blessing or permission, nor will be persuaded or dissuaded from an endeavor that I think is right...and may be what God my Father wants me to do.

Question - since I once had involvement with TWI - if I did this, would I then be a 'splinter group'? In such a case, is there any way one could start something, in godly sincerity, that wouldn't be derided as such?

Actually TWI is very upfront in communicating to believers in the us about the International Outreach progress. Most people know how many countries are official (established leadership with trained country coordinators). Those flags do not represent just "Joe Grad" in a military base. The flags represent official countries that meet criteria. There are many other countries that are still "developing" that are not "official" but have strong fellowships. None of you guys know what you're talking about. Most U.S. believers know the majority of faithful grads are outside the U.S.

Is this "official" versus "developing" standard ('official' gets a flag in the west lobby, 'developing' with just military folks stationed there) a recent TWI policy? Please don't tell me it's always been that way.....then I would have to say, you "...don't know what you're talking about." I watched them eagerly pull an old S. Korean flag out of storage to display as soon as they heard a few military guys got stationed there and were getting together. Personally, I thought that was OK....why does it have to be 'official' trained folks there before they warrant a flag?

Probably the most revealing remark RFR ever made to me was during one of my annual evaluations. I told her that with all the meetings and extra work hours, I had no time for myself, to simply read the Bible and study on my own. Her answer: "You don't need to do that. You [because I worked on the Way Mag and other publications] are reading the Word all day at work every day." /quote]

Boy, this gave me shivers! A friend of mine who was on their HQ staff also went to his overseer. His wife had a new-born baby, and a son too young to join their co-op for kids (missed it by just a few months). He worked shifts. They were doing everything they could do to keep it together. After complaining, and asking for an exception, he told me that his leadership basically reproved them and her for not following the structure set up and made them take LCM's 'Believer Family Class' tapes together. They asked for help, and they were punished for it. I hope they're doing well.

"...In that light, I've not heard much currently regarding the numbers of people who graduated the Way Corps for a few years. I remember a few years ago, they had about 7 people (most were couples) flanked by all the BOD and other such 'important' people. Did anyone know how many have graduated in the past 2-3 years?"

OK - so I guess the answer to my question is, No - no one knows the #'s for recent Corps graduations. Thanks for all who participated.