Patriot

In one of the other threads, regarding the Advanced Class 2009 attendees, it shared how many attended, and how many were teens, states represented, etc.

In that light, I've not heard much currently regarding the numbers of people who graduated the Way Corps for a few years. I remember a few years ago, they had about 7 people (most were couples) flanked by all the BOD and other such 'important' people. Did anyone know how many have graduated in the past 2-3 years? Did it pick up from that one time, or has it been about the same since? If it is real embarassing, they may not have included an article or picture in their ragazine. Any other #'s? Limb closures? Anyone?

If they were honest, not only would they disqualify anyone currently IN debt (most adults beyond college age due to mortgages for homes they can own, cars that work, student and business loans, etc.) but also all of the teens who don't take a 'spiritual oath' to not go into debt to go to college, etc. My guess is, for many of that 70% of class attendees who are teens, many of them will go to college and will take on some kind of debt since mom & dad (who are in TWI) are renting their homes, and not able to pay for their college too. Those who plan to go in debt, but just aren't yet in debt, should also not be able to attend. That would be honest. But then, that would be honest, and not in the character of twi.

From a doctrinal point of view (no - please don't banish me to that sub level!), for anyone who is still with TWI, a question: If Ephesians 6 says to put on all the armor (equipment, resources, etc.) of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the Devil, how do you justify them being willing to teach 3 of the 9 UNLESS you are financially debt-free? How do they justify withholding such vital, and essential teaching by which one cannot stand against the Devil successfully unless you know and exercise?

It came up in another thread, so I thought to start this one new.

I also realize that TWI will probably not do it, but thought it would be fun anyhow... :) :)

But if they would......

I'D DOUBLE-DOG DARE TWI'S B.O.D. TO TAKE A 'SPIRITUAL OATH' ON JUST THEIR CORPS IF THEY ARE

IN ANY DEBT, IN ANY WAY OR FASHION, TO ANYONE....INCLUDING THEIR FAMILY & FRIENDS.....

I know one Corps couple who were honest enough to bring it up, and they were 'unanimously' dropped after decades of

faithful service. If they didn't bring it up, no one would have ever found out. They're glad they did now, and are living a

great life in service to God and prospering.

I wonder how many that are lurking and yet reading this are in the category of living dishonestly, with hidden debt? Personally,

I have no problem with responsible debt. But how can they say they are 'with' the BOD yet don't live clean in this category?

It's like Roman Catholic priests being secretly married, who tow the company line, but really believe in abortion, etc. What is their

rationalization for not coming clean? Fear & bondage?

Also, IF (and I've personally spoken to at least 3 Corps who were with hidden debt, and refuse to come clean) what I think

is happening, what would the B.O.D. do if they lost 33%+ of their leadership?? Corps or non-Corps? Would they re-think their

man-made punitive policy? Does the BOD actually want to know???

So, I dare them......take (as LCM called it) a 'spiritual oath' and make people come clean or lie to them. Maybe their 'eyes and ears

of the church' are perceptive enough to 'smoke 'em out.'

PS - Personally, I believe it is wise, especially in these economic times, to be as free from debt as possible. Still, its by choice.

Does anyone know where they are? How they are doing? Hope all is very well for them.

Sue them??? Nah! www.poopsenders.com

OK- I'm not saying to actually send anything....I just thought the website was absolutely funny!

To think, someone is making money sending several varieties of animal poop. Some zoo keeper who

has to clean it up, figured out a way to actually make money from it. Only in America!

Very sad, but very well written by the anonymous attendee.

It was mentioned that the least competent and able are usually the ones in charge, and those with ability and ministries are sidelined as 'attendees.' Of course! Unless something has changed, the 'no-debt rule' eliminated many many capable people from even running one of their 'official' twi home fellowships. Heck, those in debt are not even allowed to take their Advanced Class or attend this ACS......hey, not a bad idea to get some debt and avoid going to the next waste of time / money.

Also, do those Advanced Class grad attendees and long-standing Corps & former Corps ever just wonder why?? Do they ever say to themselves, 'why does God not work in our ministry like He did the 1st century church?' Why does he not 'add daily' to our outfit if we are the ones? If so, how long can they go on either not having an answer, or having one but not caring?

"...Platig started having misgivings about the accuracy of the debt "research". She demoted him to region coord, and replaced him with R4pp. "

Chockfull,

Maybe I'm out of circulation lately, but I've not heard that this was the real reason why Harve was replaced. I've always wanted to know, since he seemed to be doing fine....even helped and was very encouraging for a few people I spoke to. How sure are you that this was the reason? Not to doubt, but would like to know.

Does anyone know any friendly believers in Montana?

Thanks!

I realize that this conversation is about believers in Montana way back when.......

Does anyone know if there are friendly believers (in or out) in Montana now????

Thanks!

Here are a few:

"Fully-Instructed Believer" - someone regardless of their walk, who has taken the Advanced Class at sometime.

This is what every new follower is to get to. This requires them to be totally free of any debt, including home mortgages, student loans...everything. If they are not financially qualified, they cannot get to this level.

"Unbelieving Believer" - Never from 'our' own ranks, but a Christian outside of our group.

"Cop Out" - Evil and deceived for leaving our ranks.

Just a few to start.

Yep - that's where they were last, and doing the limb. They had lots of deep ties in the Richmond, VA area. If you try searching, check around there.

Loved the Berryhills - always will.

CFF thinks "the world" of veepee :)

No - not really. It seems that they go out of their way NOT to refer to VPW by name, and really emphasize the scriptures.

Although there may be some things similar to twi (home fellowships, non-trinity, etc.) they actually have several "churches"

(and I mean the kind with large congregation buildings).

I'll tell ya, I'm actually GLAD that they do not let others have their name.....

If those others did GOOD things, and had a GOOD reputation......what next????

They could be labeled a GOOD Christian organization!

May I add a couple?

"COP OUT" was accusative way speak (although not a euphemism) regarding anyone who didn't submit to the order of TWI and decided to move in a different direction concerning many topics (debt, legalism, letting others run their lives and dictate choices that an individual should make for themselves, etc.). They were considered "out of fellowship" if they left 'the fellowship' of TWI. What was indicated was that they were working for the devil.

"SCHEDULE IT" for those of you who were Corps in the recent years after Rosie got going on running everyone's lives by the hour, would know this euphemism means "You don't have time to have fun and do things to enhance your own life or those of your family due to being overscheduled with 3 fellowships a week, Corps night, doing schedules (pre and "actual" schedules to be submitted weekly), hookups, listening to boring tapes, running classes, etc." Therefore, you want to join your employer's men's softball team, take a college course, take dance lessons with your spouse, go fishing, hunting, bowling, etc.....you just don't have the time unless you forsake your 'spiritual' responsibilities." <_<

Personally, what I think would be funny, is if 'we' started a "anniversary greeting" campaign, congratulating them on 65 years

and for the announcement of Brian Moynihan (or Bob) as the new president in chief.

All those greetings have to go somewhere, and Rosie would find out about the false ones. Someone would have some splaining to do!

Speaking on behalf of myself and Mrs. Patriot, we were very hurt because our family deeply loved John.

To me, in his simple loving way, he was graciously "heroic" and selfless. The needs of others always came first.

When we "declared independence" from twi about 2 years ago, we had already heard some uplifting and healing CD's from CFF (by the way,

they give them out for free each week - all to bless others, as his manner was).

Although we knew we were right, there was still some healing that we needed to get (lost friends, hurt, etc.).

John was coming to our state, and we came in contact with him (both my wife and I knew him well personally from serving with him years prior).

He just loved us big. Although he was on vacation in our state, and about 4 hours away, he invited us to come see him there....then said maybe we could meet somewhere between so as not to inconvenience us (heck, we already planned to go the distance to see him)....then he wrote us and said that they (in a loving and determined way) that they were coming to us, and would not leave for home until they saw us and spent time with us! "Us?? Little ol us??" I thought. How many years it was since I saw anyone willing to go way out of their way, even while on vacation, to bless and minister to us!!! But then, for those of you who knew John, it may not have been much of a suprise. That was John. To him, people were to be loved, and no one was disposable (again, how many years since I felt that way!). He came for NOTHING for himself, didn't ask for our allegiance to CFF, for money, etc. He just loved us with the love of God.

For those of you who knew John, you knew he hated bullies, and since he was a young boy, took them on when they were picking on others. He did that

throughout all his days. He always made time, always made you feel welcome and special. He and Mary Lou showed so many how to be given to hospitality, and even his own home was the Shroyer "blessed Western." There was just so much of the Word that you could see living in his life - faithful and doing his best. Honestly, I could go on and on, etc.

To me, a great man has passed, but his life and the impact that he made has lived on. If I could only have that said for me, at the end of my days.

Hebrews 11:38A "(Of whom the world was not worthy:)" - that's how I feel about John Shroyer. For those of you who may feel different, thank you being

gracious and not voicing it now. And for everyone who has wished well to Mary Lou and to CFF, my personal thanks as well.

Never heard that one, but do remember the "If any Way Corps go to USSR, they'll die." Hmm, sounds like a greasespot by midnight!

And to go one step further, was RayKroc devil-possessed? Also, the concept of fast food, is it of God or of the devil? Could not have VPW implemented a

competitive brand of and for God? And if God showed him this vision, but he didn't carry it out, what was the purpose of the revelation? For what profit was it?

(remember, each manifestation, when energized, is to bring forth a short and long term profit / benefit that God wanted energized to His glory). Hard pressed to think BK or Micky D's is a glory. I thought revelation was not supposed to be optional when given.

Noah, build the ark. However, if you don't, that's OK too.

Yes, I also heard from varying sources, the "if you speak it out in the senses, the god of this world has access to it." I believe it was spoken by LCM in a live advanced class - he was the one who related the Mc Donalds incident himself. Just think, it could have been called "Mc Con-alds."

Also, IF God actually did give him revelation on this, was he then disobedient for not carrying it out? Isn't disobeying God something called SIN?

John,

In hindsight, P**l G*les found out how concerned twi was with his finances. They dropped him off of "full time" status after many years receiving their check. He didn't want that. Had daughters in college, and had to go find a job (selling cars I believe). Eventually, his wife developed a skill working with that "auto cad" stuff, sent him back to school full time for his degree. From what I heard, he swore that he would never go back to full time again, even if they begged. He got a taste of the freedom.......

Yeah, let those twits laugh. I remember (maybe some of you also) an interim Corps guy - 22nd Corps, who was also caught publickly masturbating. He was reported to the authorities. Safety remembers that one!!!! They had to deal with him. He was on Way Builders. LCM kicked him off staff, and then burned everything that he left behind (tool belt, guitar, etc.) that he specifically didn't put into a box to ship. He ranted about it at lunch. I think his situation was worse, since he was caught INTENTIONALLY spanking the monkey AT someone...a younger girl.

They sent him to NC -to Dootie Mooneyhound in order to get "counseled." When he got there, he found out that he was mark and avoided.

So, laugh all they want - they had one of their own get caught.

Warning - next few sentences are designed for thoughtful consideration for those still "in". Reader discretion is advised:

Prevailing - from Acts 19:20was taught in "Rise and Expansion" was to summarize the EXPANSION results, not the RISE ("so mightily grew the Word of the Lord" summed up the rise).

Question - Prevailing Expansion? :blink: :huh: In The Way International? :blink: In the past decade????? :blink: :huh: Where?

By their fruits....or lack thereof.....it doesn't seem as if God is "abundantly" adding to their church.

If there is no prevailing expansion, then exactly what is TWI prevailing in?

Now, back to your regularly scheduled comments......

Just want to make sure I am thinking of the correct guy.....

Did he marry L*z Sch*mp? Did he have blonde hair (I believe) and once was in the Marines?

Tks!

Patriot

His name is Sam Graham. Regardless of whether he is still "in" or not, Sam is absolutely one high quality Marine!

He retired a few years back when he was at the Pentagon. A very admirable man that no one really should have anything to say about other than positives.

Question - How old are Boob and Dooty Mooney hands?

They must be counting down the hours to qualifying for emeritus status.