Mike

Not at the moment.\ I encourage you to look for yourself. Searching your memory with a table of contents in front of you may stimulate lots of good memories.

Maybe I was too fast in how I wrote that.... That section in the class was the ONLY place I ever heard it, and never again by anyone else at any time or place. The film class is its only location as far as I know. Maybe you can help me with my writing skills and show me how I could have said this better when I wrote: "One of the keys taught in PFAL that I have NEVER heard anyone expound on is how God uses His spokesman's vocabulary in revelation."

Yes, I admit, there may have been times when VPW slipped over this line, but not in the class and collaterals. I can see him saying things at a campfire that could be misconstrued this way, and anyone at that campfire that valued his words then over his words in the class and collaterals were doomed to the wrong understanding. I saw OODLES of Corps and other leaders preach the opulence gospel at times, but usually they calmed down when they integrated clear Biblical warnings against it, like "travel light" types of verses. What was properly taught at times was that God does not look at great riches as automatic sin. We were taught that God can and does fellowship with some extremely rich people. Jesus taught this by example. My hunch is that Jesus was VERY successful at his business and very rich himself by age 30.

You still have material abundance associated with greedy opulence. He did not teach greedy opulence. He taught material abundance with needs met and some left over for giving. Your density in not getting this allows me to repeat this over and over for the Read-Only Audience, so I am not angry with you for being so dense.

I'm doing my best to handle responses and I pretty well handled my backlog. However, there was one comment that repeatedly slipped through my nets, but it was stuck in my memory, so I finally found it. I had written the following: Then T-Bone asked about it this way: I was very impressed when Jesus said his Father was actively seeking people who would be willing to shmooze with him with true worship, which means spiritual worship as opposed to natural senses worship. The Father YEARNED for us to SIT !!! Of course he designed our body and soul to be able to do this easily, if we had a trusting willing heart! How could He not do that ??? We see often in the Bible that God uses the human body to describe Himself at times, and the body is used to teach us how the Body of Christ functions. I have heard of other connections like this, but none are in easy memory at the moment. God would not give us a stone (or something worthless) when we want to do what He SEEKS, which is SIT. He would not give us a scorpion (something diabolical) when we want to do what He SEEKS, which is SIT. He would not design us a body and soul that are ill prepared when we want to do what He SEEKS, which is SIT. THAT is how I know that.

Here below is an example of needs low, and wants high; need and want not balanced. James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. */*/*/* Here is an example of needs and wants balanced. 1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: When we ask according to His will, then we are not asking according to our lusts or great desires that are way beyond, and out of balance with our needs. That verse was not VPW's proof text here. It was the simple introduction to the topic. Others could have been used. */*/*/* Do you need more? To see that this "needs and wants balanced" is a super simple common sense thing that pops up in numerous scriptures, with the same idea, it not the same vocabulary words. Only a complete idiot contrarian would not be able to understand exactly what Dr was talking about in the class, after all this detail from me. I am rooting for your sunesis here. I think you can do it.

Regarding "needs and wants parallel" If you search the archives here, we went into this in great detail long ago. One of the keys taught in PFAL that I have NEVER heard anyone expound on is how God uses His spokesman's vocabulary in revelation. There are several times when VPW had a pet definition for something, or he tended to lean on a rare usage of a word. When it was pointed out to him, he changed his vocabulary. The only example I can remember this minute of this was in the Blue Book where regarding canine restraint, the word "unloosed" changed to "unleashed." I think something similar happened with "all without exception and all without distinction." */*/* The word "parallel" came from VPW's live teaching days before the filming of the class, and when he said it he used body language to clarify what he meant by "parallel," illustrating it with his arms. This did not come through well in the film class, SO in the PFAL book there are a couple of places where the word "balanced" was substituted for the word "parallel." The word "balanced" perfectly communicates the data. Also communicating this same data is the rich context in the film class that surrounds the use of "parallel." I never noticed the word "balanced" put into the book until we were debating the issue here about 15 years ago. This situation is very similar to the red drapes deletion. When I sat in the film class, I absolutely had ZERO trouble understanding what VPW meant by "needs and wants parallel" because of the supporting context. It was plain as day because of benign redundancy in VPW's communicating the idea in the context, as well as in that one word. */*/* Not understanding what "needs and wants parallel" means is another example of people not paying good attention when hearing the film class, or having limited intelligence, or having a very inflexible way of assigning meaning to others' words, or some other deficiency, like memory loss or lack of desire or trust. My revealing this about the word "balanced" should totally fix any misunderstandings you may have had all these years. If you are still in the dark, I will post to transcript for you to read, so you can once again have that very supportive context that VPW wrapped around his idiosyncratic use of the word "balanced." If that doesn't completely solve this, then I would suspect a lack of desire to understand.

Your level of temptations was nowhere near his.

Yes, that could happen. I dont see that happening in the class or collaterals, though. He was not Jesus Christ; he had sin in his life like you and me.

Then it is established? I was joking. Old age causes 2 kinds of problems: short term memory loss, and.... short term memory loss.

What the ministry taught was not always right. Things drifted more and more towards wrong as time went by, ESPECIALLY in the TVTs.

VPW saw believers with need and not enough extra (abundance) to give to others. VPW saw UNBELIEVERS without need and enough extra (abundance) to give to others.

Sorry, Raf, I totally forgot to include you. Twice in one day you have spoken up for me, adding to several times before. Thank you much, sir. It had not occurred to me that just like Ralph was a reluctant witness to T.I.P. working pretty well in the early 70s, you have been a reluctant benefactor and witness to me. I commend your honesty, sir. I think Ralph was being honest too.

Only ONE PERSON? Wrong again. Are you trying to beat some kind of crazy Guiness record? Pamsandiego knew me many years prior to me posting here, and she was the one who recommended to me while we were walking along the beach one day that I should come and post here. That was before I was dragged here by Research Geek and alphacat without my consent. I met Pawtucket at Pam's house. I met with Pam and Sirguessalot together and had coffee once. Several posters and/or read-only grads here contacted me and we became became close friends, with lots of phone calls. ...did I mention I am viewing this as a first rough draft of a future book?

I view what I am doing as a first draft to a future book. Sure there are some rough edges, but they can be smoothed out. It probably wont include the budget/double doors thing. I also abandoned my approach in the thread "The Ubiquitously Hidden Teaching of VPW." I could not get that idea into the practical use category. But other than them, I am pretty happy with what I have contributed here. ...did I mention that I view my posting as a first draft to a future book?

Do you think Jesus was doing that in John 10:10 ?

Another one-trick-pony are you? Don't like the wide variety in my life? I have not bothered to spell it all out here, but you are forgetting several that I have. */*/*/*/*/* But me being a composite person is the one I love the best. Maybe I should play along with that idea.... I mean maybe WE should play along with that idea.

When you get tired and defeated trying to deal with my challenges you resort to attacking me as a liar. I never said I was a professional coder, dancer, or comedian. I said that I have some pretty extensive experience in those areas. Are you a jealous one-trick-pony, yourself? Sheesh! I have deep experience in a lot more than what you mentioned.

To adjust dimming memories is one use.

I am sure there were times when the ministry went into the error zone on hawking material abundance TV style, which is really greedy opulance, not simple abundance. The TVT's got pretty loaded by that in the 80s. But that is not what the class and the collaterals teach.

VPW said it in the BRC basement that day in 1982, just before PFAL'77. I was there with at least 100 other people. VPW was God's spokesman at the time.

You are already forgetting that abundance to Jesus and to Ohio farmers in the Sixties meant having their needs met and something left over to give away. Just reminding. God wants us to have both spiritual and material abundance. Not greed, but more than we need is fine. Here is everything on the red drapes from the film class: */*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/* Another promise in the Epistle of I John. Way in the back of your Bible. I John, the Epistle of I John, first-second--third John. I John 5:14: And this is the confidence [this is the confidence] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, [if we ask any thing according to his will] he heareth us: Isn't that wonderful? If we have our need and our want parallel we ask anything according to His will; how can it be His Will if we don't know His Word? His Word is His Will that gets our need and our want parallel. If we know His Word we can parallel it off. And once we get our need and want parallel, whatsoever we ask, we get. Many years ago when I was first questing in the integrity and accuracy of God's Word and doing Biblical research, just starting in the field, there were some things in the Word of God that we believed and that we understood and were practicing in our prayer life. And we were really concerned about learning more about God's Word. We had a letter from one of our radio audience from Cincinnati. And this good lady stipulated in that letter stating the following: she said, "now on Thursday night when you have your prayer group meeting and you meet with your people; I'd like for you to pray for an apartment for me. Because I have to find this apartment and I would like for this apartment to be within walking distance, two or three blocks from where I am employed." And she said, "it has to be a furnished apartment because I do not have my own furniture," and she said, "while your praying for this apartment within this area of where I am gainfully employed will you please ask God that in this furnished apartment there will be red drapes on the living room windows." My, oh my. That shook me. I thought to myself well good lord, if I'm going to pray for her for an apartment and she gets that apartment she ought to be thankful. What difference does if make if its got pink drapes or yellow drapes or orange drapes on the living room window? But she had stipulated in her letter please pray that there be red drapes on the window. Well I don't know who did the believing, I helped in the praying but I want to tell you something that night spiritually I hadn't gone this far; I believed for the apartment this I could believe for, it was a need I understood this. So I believed that she'd have an apartment but I can't imagine and I know that I did not believe anything about drapes at all. But we prayed that evening and within fifteen minutes of the time when we had prayed for this situation this lady in Cincinnati many, many, many miles away had a telephone call from an entire stranger who said to her "a friend of yours told me that you have need of an apartment, is this right?" And she said, "yes." And she said, "well where's it located?" He said, "well such and such a place." Within two blocks of where she was employed. So she said to him, "may I come and see it in the morning?" He said, "you certainly may." They made an appointment, she went next morning and looked at this apartment. And when she walked into the living room what do you think the color of those drapes were on those living room windows? Green, oh no they weren't. They were fire engine red. That's right. People, she must have had her need and her want parallel. Look at this. Alright, she rented a furnished apartment and it had to have drapes on the window, right? Does it make God any difference whether the drapes are green or red or pink? No, but she had a need, that need was that they might as well have red drapes on, that's what she wanted. She got her need and her want parallel. She not only got that apartment but she got the red drapes on the windows. You talk about the accuracy of God's Word when He said He'll supply all of our need according to His riches in glory. Doesn't say He'll supply our greed but He'll supply our need according to His riches in glory. That's true. It's wonderful. */*/* VPW didn't think God was that big, and he didn't think the lady had a real need. But she knew, and she was specific, and got the red drapes. Not a spectacular abundance like on TV, but nice.

I see your point. But I also see his apostles imitating him as he did whatever breathing her did. They could also "rehearse" not rehearsing thing to say beforehand, and avoid pre-meditation. Don't forget that Jesus sent out WoWs; twice I think. I also remember spirit upon being involved, healings, casting out devils, etc. That was another PARTICIPATORY part for the apostles and disciples. You are just not using your whole brain in thinking this through; only to impede what I am saying.

It is understood that FIRST we are to build our heart's desires according to His Word and will. If that is not understood, then we could have an idol as our heart's desire, and then wonder why God is not interested in helping us ruin ourselves. The teaching John gives on this is: "And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." (1 John 5:14,15)

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