Mike

21 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

It's also nervous, reactive tick born of a desperate hope to distract and deflect the thorough refutations submitted by everyone. It's a smokescreen. It's a tactic designed to avoid answering questions or admitting to the logical and spiritual proofs provided by everyone else on the thread.

Anti-Bingo !!!

We have a loser!

11 minutes ago, So_crates said:

Yah, but I'm not encouraging a!ready impoverish people to give me 15% of their income with the promise God will bless them with a blessing so big the won't be able to receive it and they'll find their way out of poverty.

Well, I don't do that either, and I don't condone others doing it.

What you describe could conceivably be done by revelation in rare cases, if God knew it would be good for the hearers. 

HOWEVER, I have to admit that like the scarcity of miracles, there was a scarcity of genuine revelation received by leadership as time went by.   Most revelations were faked and carefully announced ONLY if there was no way to watch and see if it was accurate.  No one ever got revelation on the horse races or lottery numbers that I heard of.

6 minutes ago, So_crates said:

And somehow you think this makes acting on greed right?

Not at all. 

Why do you say that? 
Because you think (erroniously) that I think VPW did no wrong?

22 hours ago, So_crates said:

Actually it's his off-handed way of suggesting what we posted was insignificant as far as he was concerned.

Bingo!  We have a winner!

Most of you folks post in response to me vast amounts of total garbage chaff which is disguised as humor.  This is an attempt to hide good things that I post from the "Read-Only" audience at home watching this Reality Show.  This chaff attack strategy is a standard tactic when you have no serious response to offer.

It would be easy as pie to make a text file of any page I post on, and color the chaff paragraphs in bold red fonts, or maybe shrink them way down to 2 point micro fonts.  Reading the thread and skipping the chaff would be easier and faster for anyone, and no content would be lost. Lost would be the failed attempts of wannabee stand-up comics.

Maybe we should make the GSC book formatted that way, but I don't really know how that would work in the screenplay.

3 minutes ago, So_crates said:

Yah, sure, we see this in the ministry. Saint Vic et al, who receive so much, gave what?

So then why didn't Saint Vic et al give of all that cash?

Nobody cares.

Well, once Saint Vic saw all that money, greed took over.

That could happen.... to you and me, as well.

21 hours ago, WordWolf said:

I was reminded, a few months ago, that we once discussed microwave ovens. Mike recited the internet myth that microwave ovens leak radiation. I linked the real story.  AFTER that, Mike said that the link confirmed that microwave ovens are a radiation danger.

Yikes!  I do not remember that at all !!!

I vaguely remember a thread about LCM and microwave ovens.  But I don't think I said anything even similar to what you say I said.

I did have a bunch of surgeries in the later half of 2021, and medicated some at times.  But I know what the wavelengths of microwaves are and how they can't leak out.  I use my microwave every day several times, and sometimes I get 2 inches away to see if anything is boiling. 

I think you might want to consult your anonymous friend and see if they had a bunch of surgeries or something themselves.  Ask them for a date and thread name.  Ask them to squat.

The only thing microwave ovens do is jiggle water atoms.

21 hours ago, So_crates said:

To the above reposts, I'd like to add:

If the ministry didn't teach material abundance, what's the point of ABS? You don't honestly think people would willingly give 15% of their income for something they couldn't hold in their hand, do you?

And then there's the booklet Christians Should Be Prosperous given out with the class materials.

Starting to add up, aren't they?

This is dangerous for me to respond outside my backlog.  It could be lost forever.

But this bears some brief response.

By operating material giving we learn how to give spiritually.

By WHERE we give to, we are already learning this. 

When we give anything we are better able to receive both physical teaching from men and spiritual guidance from God.

Giving is a very high form of biology. I think it is in birds and reptiles, but it becomes abundant in mammals.  Caring for the young is it's central theme, and starting point.

*/*/*

The idea of giving only or first to TWI was supposed to be a temporary measure in 1972, because so many of the twig leaders were very, very young, inexperienced in life, and untrained in the Word.  It is regrettable that it was enshrined and mounted in concrete there.

I am curious if anyone here EVEN HAS a transcript of the film class?

9 minutes ago, Mike said:

I thought it was significant that NO ONE knew about the deletion, including me. 

This was many years ago and the "NO ONE" above was on the order of 50 to 100 fairly active posters.    On one thread, someone did a tally and counted 70 posters debating me on that thread.

So, it was a pretty BIG DEAL that none of us knew about the red drapes deletion from the PFAL book.

As usual, if anyone said anything significant in my 14 hour backlog, please feel free to repeat it here, lest it fall through the cracks, which backlogs are known  to do.

14 hours ago, Mike said:

That's not how I remember it. 
Shall I fetch the transcript?

I'm 14 hours behind in my backlog, so I don't know if anyone commented on this yet. 

My best memory on the red drapes was that it expanded VPW's ability to think big about God's generosity and ability. Scouts Honor, I did not yet consult the transcript.  But I did consult my dimming memory of posting on it here in the past, like 17 years ago.  

I distinctly remember first discovering the deletion of the red drapes from the PFAL book, while we were debating the red drapes meaning here.  I immediately posted here about this discovery, and it caused quite a stir. 

I thought it was significant that NO ONE knew about the deletion, including me. 

It reinforced my conviction that NONE of us (including me) went deeper than barely scratching the surface in PFAL, especially in the collaterals.

*/*/*/

If you can't find this incident in the archives here, let me know, and I will search for it in my copies of the threads that were lost in the Pruning Crisis of circa 2007?  It may have been earlier.

There are many other posters in these lost threads I have. I am willing to donate them to  whoever is able to code them into the current GSC software. 

Being a coder myself, this would be massively difficult, because the files in my archive were saved in several different file formats, 2 different browsers, and includes at least 2 different GSC software platforms.  Still, it's a big chunk of GSC history, unless someone had made archive copies before the Pruning Crisis.

*/*/*

Anyone who's hooked on trivia might want to test themselves on what was the main point the Red Drapes story being in the film class.  It is stated clearly in the transcript pretty well etched into my memory.

Anyone want to play my trivia game here?

If you have a transcript, then by Scout's Honor you are bound to withdraw from the quiz. 

So far I know the cynical guesses I did see prior to my 14 hour backlog were wrong.  I know for sure the point of the Red Drapes was  NOT to encourage us all to envision houses with 3 car garages and carloads of money. 

Hint: the answer to the trivia quiz is related to "be anxious for nothing."

55 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

"The class" was completely complete. The perfection of the original "class" could never be duplicated. That's why the '77 PFAL was scrapped at the last minute.

You are close, but still missing it.

The film class was pretty good, but it had mistakes of several sorts.  I still believe there were portions that were "straight prophecy."  But where they began and where they ended was problematic.

The books were the distillation of the audios, and that goes for more than the class.

God was happy with the 1968 film class and unhappy with the planned replacement, and when VPW finally was able to hear that, he scrapped the original goal of PFAL'77.    I was personally present when he announced this to the staff at lunch 4 days before PFAL'77 started, and some of it was repeated on the following SNT tape.

This incident and VPW's frank admission that he had blown it and had not been listening to God, told me that there were possibly other occasions where this kind of think could have happened.

I thought that this admission was very interesting, in that I never once heard anyone talk about it in the years since. 

It got shoved under the rug with all the PFAL'77 excitement started, a few days later. Lots of grads idolized him, and could not soundly entertain the possibility that he could be wrong about other things.  Those vpw idolators were severely hurt when the facts started coming out, and they flipped or snapped into vpw haters. 

1 hour ago, So_crates said:

So? Was it taught? Then it was an example of Saint Vic claiming PLAF bringing material abundance.

That's not how I remember it. 
Shall I fetch the transcript?

1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

Oh...that's their tacit manner of acknowlidging that it was complete and utter bullshonta from jump.

NOT AT ALL.
It may have been because people were not picking up on the right points, like with the unforgivable sin segmeht.

Do you remember the point he was making with the red drapes?

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

He did?

Boy, did you miss it.  It was a long read and required a good attention span. I understand.  Maybe if you try again after getting some rest?

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

So what?

You weren't there.  At the end of his life VPW directed all us grads to to back to the class and master it. Special attention was given to the written materials that came with the class.  This directive was first aimed at top leadership, and then to us all. 

Some of us had pretty well memorized tons of lines in the film soundtrack, but were very negligent in mastering the collaterals. We all blew off this directive and the ministry died a year later.  A monster rose in its place, the TWI-2 and TWI-3 you fairly rightly despise.

HAD we followed this directive we would have noticed the the red drapes were deleted, and we would not have leaned on that story so much for doctrine.

47 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

Reminds me of that line in PFAL "I have a jack but I'm not going to give it to you"

You really know how to push my buttons, don't you.

Here's a sample of what I am talking about for you to reject:  "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Here's a few ways you can see for yourself how at numerous times Jesus prepared his apostles for Pentecost. 

Look in the 2nd appendix of RHST for all the occurrences of "spirit" in the NT. Take special note of the context when Jesus speaks the word "spirit" or "Ghost" as in the verse above. 

Also, in John's Gospel, the narrator explains a few times that Jesus was speaking of a later time, when spirit would come on Pentecost.  John has several such interesting "flash forwards" in time, and this is hinted at in the class once. The term "flash forward" was not used in the hint; that's mine, copyright 2023.

I also remember, that in another place Jesus talks about not rehearsing or premeditating, but waiting for the spirit to inspire.

I think I have a list of more in some ancient paper folder, but I am out of squat now.

5 minutes ago, waysider said:

In other words, "you ain't got squat".

In other words "you get no squat from me."

11 minutes ago, Charity said:

But you're on a roll - I say carry on !

Get a thread, you two.

9 minutes ago, waysider said:

When you achieve fluency in a spoken language, it flows from you naturally, as quickly as your mind can think it. You don't overly concern yourself with mechanics or have a need to practice them. Why is this so hard for some people to accept?

Because some people have over-spiritualized our role in SIT.

When errors like that are in the background, and some fears with them, a NEW STUDENT needs to hand on to the simple instructions of the mechanics of speech. After ten minutes it starts to flow much better, as the mind clutter and fears subside.

 

14 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

show me line by line and word by word in the gospels where it shows this >>>> "Actually, their excellors sessions were spread out in the Gospels."

If I thought for one second that you could receive it I would.

It is abundantly clear that you simply want more targets to shoot at. 

You can search the archives for when I explained it long ago here.

24 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Oh, he woke up...take note...

Take SPECIAL note that he testified in favor of PFAL S.I.T. and T.I.P. being real.

28 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Right  Fire engine red drapes are definitely material. They really do sit there like a duck. 

Did you know the red drapes story was removed from the PFAL book?

4 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Why did you feel the need to make a point about not using stopwatches during "excellor" (real word?) classes?

To demonstrate what sucker for throw away lines you are.

On 4/28/2023 at 12:55 PM, OldSkool said:

Yeah...they had an excellor session right before they spoke in tongues....quit reading wierwille's goofy practices into scripture. 

Actually, their excellors sessions were spread out in the Gospels.

Remember, what is taught in excellors sessions is what is our part in the matter (versus God's part) and overcoming the fears that hinder.   The 12 apostles had a rather different culture than ours, different attitudes towards action, and different fears that hindered.  Excellors sessions should be tailored to fit the needs of the recipients, not follow some one-size-fits-all strategy.