Mike

Ah! Rafael, Something we can agree on. You wrote: "I did not know that. Very enlightening. In my opinion, it's fair game to use modern anachronisms to make a point (ie, the prophet Elisha doesn't come out to meet Naaman because he's having tea and chocolate chip cookies). It's a device. " Another term is pedagogical (sp?) tool? I've scolded for usuing things like this. Where's Gamiel when we need him?

Georgio, I apologize for having such limited time. This morning I did't even have enough time to read the posts on this single page since last night, let alone other threads. The ONLY way I can deal with all this volume is to pick and choose. You all want instant action, and I cannot supply it to all. If you are patient, in the weeks and months to come, I'll eventually get to much more. I am currently giving higher priority to private e-mail responses to letters I have received from some of you GSers. Please vouch for this you guys, ok? Georgio, have you honestly looked at every single post of mine to see if I already answered SOME of your beefs? If not, then I suggest you employ this biblical key we were taught. These keys work for many other things than the KJV. PLEASE be thorough and careful and see if at least parts of your topic come up in a general way. My heart of hearts is to answer all. Please pray for my increased efficiency. It's time for work, sorry. I'll be back. P.S. Yikes! I just realized that Georgio's post is on page 8, and now here's another page I haven't seen much of. I'm doing my best. [This message was edited by Mike on January 10, 2003 at 9:26.]

Rafael, Don't worry I'm here and saving these pages. These are valuable exercises for the future, after I work out some other higher priority snags you haven't yet seen. Ever Google for "Bible Contradictions" ??? Very instructive, especially the websites by total unbelievers. Sea ya. DIVE! DIVE! Ah oooOOOOGAH! Ah ooOOOOGAH! Batten down the hatches! We're going down! Kschhhhhhhhh Kschhhhhhh Ka blub Bblubbbbb bl bl bl blub ccc ........ .... (up scope___rig for silent running) ....

WOW! It sure is hot in here! I need some air. [This message was edited by Mike on January 07, 2003 at 1:05.]

The reason God gave Dr His Word afresh is that it is TIME for us to get serious about mastering the mind of Christ. The AIR of the God-breathed Word is our life. [This message was edited by Mike on January 07, 2003 at 1:23.]

phone aloof

Rafael, why would you remain so aloof as to not talk by phone? This is NOT my reason for leaving, and I DID say case closed, but it was shortly after that I got it clear that I must leave, so I openeed the case again.

Wellllll. It's important to me and to the popcorn growers of America.

We interrupt this thread for an important announcement: I am leaving. There is a fresh new thread where I'll explain why. Come and see.

Rafael, I accept your decision to not acept my phone calls. Subject closed.

Zix, You're right. It was primarily addressed to the top leadership. By their incompetence and refusal to obey it they are not leaders any more. They abdicated! They ceased being leaders in God's eyes in 1985! Whose going to fill the vacuum? The lower leadership, also declined Dr's final instructions. This process went all the way "down" to the lowly twig leaders, so all that's left is us mere Joe believers. Oh, I know I'd be delighted if any former leadership were to come back, TOTALLY delighted! I'd bet money God feels the same. Actually I think some may, I just don't know when, and I ain't waitin' for dem no mo. You can turn down the offer like the upper leadership did if you want, but MY response to this deplorable situation is "Here am I, send me, Daddy. I'll give it a try if no one else will." I know of a few other grads who feel the same, even some Corps! This is how David handled a VERY similar situation when all the army generals fearfully fled Goliath. We all have the same Christ in us, and thesame connection to God, so Dr's Last/Lost Teaching is now addressed to us ONLY. My Daddy is blind to name tag status, He looks at believing.

Exy, Your post drew me back. Now Stop laughing Rafael! You're making me laugh too much again, and it hurts because it's enflaming my humoroids. Sorry Exy, that's just a little guy talk. I think you'll find your answer to that question as you study I Corinthians 13. Any decent version can transmit most of the important details. If you're up to it, and I'd understand if this is not the time for this, but if you're up to it you could check out that chapter in "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" where I Cor 13 is covered. Again, if that's not for you, just about any Bible study on agape/love should help you with that answer better than I can. If we were best friends and at a Starbucks with our KJV's that's where I'd suggest we go first.

Rafael, In the class Dr challenges us to read nothing but the epistles that are addressed to us for 3 months. At that time that meant KJV reading. Many, many other KJV readings and retemories were encouraged back then. This was part of our background, the basis in which to understand to the collaterals. The KJV is an approximation of the original scriptures. The original understanding is the goal, the KJV is like a puzzle that needed to be “solved” or partially fixed. This would give us right dividing skills we could later apply to the collaterals. The KJV was a difficult puzzle in this respect, and no one was able to complete it, but it did teach us much, even as an approximation. The collaterals are a MUCH easier read, even though right dividing is still required. I look at the much time we were told (by revelation) to spend in the KJV like the ankle and wrist weights a runner uses in training. When the BIG RACE finally arrives, the weights are removed and the runner flies through the air with the real God-breathed Word. Since Dr was taught by God to lead us through the KJV so much, I'd say from that standpoint there's got to be some veracity there, even in raw KJV approximate form. Many things changed in the period from 1976 to '85, especially in '82. After this 1982 the removal of the ankle weights was supposed to start happening, but it didn’t. By that time the top leadership was well practiced at “yessing” Dr to death and not really listening to his EXACT words he was getting from God. This is abundantly proved by the record. Dr’s Last/Lost Teaching was the last in a series of ignored instructions. Some people tried some of his suggestions, but eventually they pooped out and went with the prevailing winds. I still am seeing lots of KJV verses on every page of Dr’s books. Yes, you say, I’m missing a lot of them too. Many verses were not part of the grand 40+ year project of God teaching Dr and Dr teaching us, and did not get covered by my own private reading and research. I simply place these verses on the lower priority list for focus. If God deemed those verses to be not part of that 40+ year project with Dr and they didn’t make it into his books, then I’m not going to be running into them in my efforts to master the collaterals. Is this a fatal situation? I think not. You all must decide on a yearly basis which verses you won’t be reading in your KJVs, unless you happen to be a prolific reader, but even still focused research of all the KJV in one year is impossible for any human. All of life demands that we decide which things are going to get done and which are not. I feel much less at risk if I stick with GOD’S decision as to which verses don’t make it into my high focus cirriculum THIS year, and the next several, until I’m done mastering. THEN, after PFAL mastery I’m in a much better position to work with any of the temporarily “lost” verses God wants me to get back into. Do I feel it’s OK for me to read my KJV some before mastery BEFORE I’m finished mastering? Most definitely YES! But in moderation, not detracting from my main project of mastery. When I see verses covered in PFAL in my KJV and I want to focus in on them I go to Dr’s scripture index and look them up to see how God taught him to teach them to me. Then I can get God’s perspective on those verses, and not be cluttered with my own non-master opinions. Right now I OFTEN go to my KJV to get a contextual flow overview for passages I’m studying in Dr’s books. When I see verses NOT covered in PFAL book I have developed a habit of not being too concerned about finding out EXACTLY what is meant by them. Maybe I’ll be aware of the content or the gist of those verses coming up elsewhere in the collaterals without citing the chapter and verse numbers, and I get additional light. If I read these uncovered verses in the KJV or research them in the Greek or Aramaic I'll be on our own, without God's special 1942-promise kind of help. I’ll be left to my own devices, the 5-senses, and be open prey to the god of the 5-senses realm. So, I choose to not research them, or try to think too much about them. I'm content to know that when we were told to read these verses along with all the KJV back before 1982, I did so to the best of my ability, and incorporated them appropriately. So, by the above explanation you should see that I really DO give KJV verses great credence, but not the super special credence of the contents of the collaterals. Now, Rafael, as you might have noticed, today I only answered the opening lines of very long posts by you. Both of my responses took much time to type. But there’s still a vast body of other challenges in your posts I would love to have time to get into. It is this situation that I think a phone conversation or two would cut through. If you better understood my heart, which the phone can facilitate, then I think you and I would have a much more efficient debate. We could then focus on the much more meaty issues. So far I’ve tried calling you about 30 times in the past two days. I’ve only left a few messages, but I’ve called a lot. If you send me an e-mail and let me know when I can call to get through this may expedite things greatly. You are very easy to find in the phone book, as you say, but very hard to find in person, or in voice. I’m NOT trying to change your mind. Only God can really convince. I’m only trying to more efficiently deliver data. If it’s right you’ll be able to consider it better, if it’s wrong you’ll be able to combat it better. ************************************************************ Sirguessalot, I sent you two e-mails on 1-5-03 and one on 1-4-03 which is more than anyone here. Did you get them? If not send me another note and I’ll see if something happened to the address. I can re-send them. I’ll try to focus more time on your post today for reply. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Hey! Am I the first to say that here? I have limited time. I work close to my home, and came home to see what action was happening here, got sucked in again, and wrote the essay for Rafael above. At it’s end I appealed to him for a phone conversation. How about the same for you? Send me your number and what times I can find you in, and your time zone, and I’ll call. You may be unaware of the other e-mails I am dealing with, and these posts you do see are quite time consuming. I’m spending many more hours than usual sitting at my computer, and my *** is sweaty. I feel like Alec Baldwin so I have to get up and dry off. Don’t give up, after I burn out here there will be lots of e-mail time. As for the possibility you asked me to consider, please read all my posts here for more details, but in a nutshell here, the answer is YES. I spent the majority of 27 years considering that, and getting somewhat put off by grads around me who took him at his word as having been taught the best Word in 2000 years. It seems I traded places with them. My decision was made as a relatively mature grad and all alone between me and God, while the teenagers and twenty year olds of the Seventies made the decision impulsively, emotionally, and by jumping on a bandwagon. Feel better? ******************************************* Exy, I'll try to get back to you next session. I gotta stand up and ..... get moving.

Rafael wrote: “I was under the impression from your earlier posts that Wierwille had finished his work and was ready to die. Yet now you make it clear that there was a major portion of his work that was left undone. So, which is it?” Rafael, I think you’re assuming that the undone work was Dr’s to do. If Dr was operating by an abundance revelation (not in every phase of his life but in the work God gave him) THEN Dr would be able to discern with exactitude which specific tasks God gave him and to which tasks God said “No, that’s someone else’s job.” That dichotomy, being none of our business to begin with, may blur 5-senses wise as we look at it through the ravages of time and/or other minor handicaps, like not even being there. This minor handicap I suffer from because I was 2000 miles away during that final period. You may have been around long enough to remember that Dr OFTEN taught on this work sharing dichotomy. Jesus scolded one disciple for wondering about someone else’s’ work assignment once. The Gospels of Mark and Luke are a marvel of this ultra-compartmentalization of work tasks that God used as a rule, not an exception. Mark and Luke were travelling companions with Paul YET the Mystery teaching of Paul’s was not in their compartments. Paul was shown a revelation of the Third Heaven, YET forbidden to teach on the details of it, because God had assigned that job to John. Sometimes there IS no one God can trust with a needed job and it goes undone until someone rises up. This kine of rising up is what WE are supposed to do. And HOW do we do it, oh,.. the HOW of that job we face was the topic of ..... Dr’s Last/Lost Teaching. Ta DA! We’re back on thread. I think Dr finished the job God gave him. I’ve now got to finish the job God gave me for this afternoon, because I’m on a squeegee mission for God.

I'm on lunchbreak from work, because my schedule is extremely casual, except for home appointments, which are nill in the winter after Christmas. Plus I have a lot of office cleanup and straightening I'm doing as I wait for downloads. That counts as work, doesn't it? I've only been posting for less than two weeks, but it REALLY IS cutting into my study time, I admit it. I can make my own hours to a large degree since I work a lot of 24/7 type convienience stores. Tell me, DATWAY, did you pick up your skill of grilling people as to how they spend their free-time and work-time from TWI-2 or did you get by revelation from the same god they got it from? Are you going to ask about my finances and abundant sharing next? If so I rent an apartment. But plese don't ask me about my credit card or car? Deal?

Thanks Oldiesman. That's what I said, buried in all the detail. I needed a summary like yours to clarify for those who only skim.

I never said that all abusers are of equal degree. The potential is in all of us men. The same is the sad fact with women. They often abuse THEIR chemical power over men. It's just not in style to reveal this and it IS in style to hide it.

Abigail, how do you know David did not have undocumented relapses at times. Old habits are hard to break, so I'd need a lot of Biblical proof before I believed your shooting from the hip. How do you know "99% of all men do not use their power/position or physical force to sexually abuse women." ???? What percentage have you mneasured? I got my estimate from being a man and hearing men talk when women are not around. I also know there's some basis to "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." I also know there are exceptions to that, but in the adversary's kingdom they are few. The ONLY one I know who totally resisted this is our lord Jesus Christ.

Excathedra wrote: “Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works” Exy, you are 100% correct in citing and applying the last part of that verse. MAYBE his cancer was a part of that “reward” but that’s none of our business, so I don’t focus much on it. Since you brought this subject to me for comment, I’ll do it. If you don’t want to see what I say about it, the PgDn key is close by. If you ARE going to read what I wrote, please be well rested (I learned this was important in the wee hours of Sunday this week), and think about it all for a few hours before you respond. I know this is a difficult subject for you, and it has been for a lot of people, including me. I too am learning that I must get quiet to hear the True God’s still small voice in dealing with difficult matters. Emotion often feels like it will help energize my response with maximum horsepower, but I’ve learned the hard way it can also run me off the road and over the cliff. Emotion is great for physical interactions, like hard labor or fight/flight kinds of things, but lousy for recalling detailed Biblical advice and hearing God’s still small voice. I think you may be mis-applying the first part of that verse. MY OPINION is that your business regarding this matter is to forgive, forget, and get totally healed. I KNOW FOR SURE that God wants all three for you. That’s what your Bible says in MANY places and in MANY ways. If you choose to ignore these Bible passages then how could you in good conscience criticize me for not being biblical enough? Maybe you don’t. There are many things I have done in my life I’m not proud of, but let me assure you that a skinny science nerd like myself never got “lucky” enough to do the things you find most reprehensible. If I had had those “troops” I too may have invaded Poland once or twice. I saw ALL my college roommates and most of my friends try, and sometimes succeed, in doing terrible things to women (usually very young and dumb) that sometimes turned my stomach. But then there were also those times that I was green, not with disgust, but with envy. You are either going to have to learn to forgive this innate weakness the adversary exploits in 99% of all men, or 99% of the men on this board are going to be thinking of ways to hide it from you. If any man denies this extremely strong pressure the adversary wields, I’d suspect he’ll also deny that he masturbates. Either a medical condition or a jaded conscience to lying can bring a man to claim he is in that 1% category that’s totally innocent. Before you become an arch feminist over this statistic, I suggest you first research the innate weakness(s) the adversary exploits in 99% of all WOMEN. Now THERE’S a hot new thread someone can start. Now, regarding forgiving, forgetting, and healing, maybe you have already done some or all of that, THAT’S none of MY business, unless you bring the issue to my door, which you have. If you want any help in that area, many of the cooler biblical heads here are capable of at least showing you the verses. Maybe Research Geek. Now, Exy, back to the second half of the verse you quoted. There are many things I have done in my life for which I am still paying the price, even though I’ve gotten back into fellowship with Father. The same thing happened to David, NOT for his sexual problem per se, but for murder. He had to suffer with the consequences of his sin for many years, even though he was back in fellowship and writing Psalms from God. And who knows how many more sins of his went undocumented. It’s not easy for a normal person to knock up a best friend’s wife and then have her husband killed without a LOT of warming up and practice. It’s called becoming jaded. It takes lots of time and sin USUALLY to get as bad as David did. God only documented in His Word what we needed for our learning. I suppose God covered for David on his warm-up sins, or we’d all be tearing Psalms out of our Bibles. Plus the Father would surely WANT to cover the sins of His adopted son, David. I feel the exact same about my father in the Word. During Dr’s lifetime, God did the same kind of covering, else the collaterals would have never been printed up and so widely distributed. And Proverbs would have been LONG gone if we all were really consistent in purging our lives of all male-sin and the products of great male-sinners. How many of Solomon’s wives do you think he mistreated? AT LEAST a couple hundred is my guess from listening to the OT History tapes, and from my participating in the male gender. Exy, the timing of “God’s” reward mentioned in your above verse is not only in the future at judgement. (I used quotes there to indicate the idiom of permission.) Jesus talked about how giving is rewarded BOTH in this life and the next. That works for negative giving too. Don’t worry, God is not mocked by anyone, even VPW, and whatsoever a man sows that will he reap also. Vengeance is MINE says the Lord. God will even the score for you MUCH better than you can ever dream to even it by being bitter and besmirching the good that Dr also did do for you and us. God will reward him for that too. God will also reward you for your valiant effort to forgive, forget, and accept total healing, whether you’ve completed it or still working on it. Like Paul wrote to Philemon, Jesus Christ says with all the authority of God Almighty to you, Exy, “Put it on my charge account, I’ll pay in total for all VPW’s sins to you, just as I paid for your sins against others.” How do I know that? Precedent. It is written. ******************************************************* Zix, for myself, I’m simply not trying to master the AC. If you want more detail as to how to deal with it’s status, I suggest you get down to serious mastery of the collaterals. Then and only then will you get to “all nine all the time,” and then you can ask God for your answer. If you think you can skip around the collaterals and ask, I think you’re asking for trouble. The devil can counterfeit God’s voice so well that only a master can tell them apart. The past 2000 years of failure at “all nine all the time” shows me it’s useless to try and “5-senses” my way in an end run around the devil’s defenses. He’s smarter than any 5-senses researcher. Look what he did to Bullinger regarding SIT. A mere 5-senses researcher NEEDS the extra boost of revelation to get through all the confusion that the arch intellectual devil has erected. Do you see the catch-22 here? The 5-senses researcher is trying to learn the difference between God and His counterfeit, but in order to learn this he must be able to ALREADY tell the difference to obtain and hear the needed extra boost God’s voice will give him over the devil’s smarts. The only way out of this 2000 year (at least) old vicious cycle is God has step in. That’s what the 1942 promise was and is. And that project of fixing His Word that God initiated was basically finished after 40 years of Him working with Dr. This is stated by Dr as his last words to Craig at Craig’s installation, and it’s on the same tape I quoted on the “News Flash!” thread about Craig’s non-spiritual installation. Another thing the rare “spiritually boosted researcher” needs is the courage to face the fire of tradition and it’s many, many vehement adherents. God has had to OFTEN wait a long time for JUST the right individual with these unique characteristics (super diligent in 5-senses work, super meek to God ONLY, and willing to take on the war with tradition with gusto) to come along for many of the job HE wanted done. Examples: Moses, John the Baptist, Mary. As far as the job of restoring God’s Word (like in Jer.36) it took 2000 years for God to find BOTH a tough ornery contrarian crowd like us to believe, and a tough ornery contrarian like Dr to teach us. *********************************************************** Larry P – What you are referring to (Dr’s nasty talk on cancer) does not exist in the tape/print record that I am aware of. I think it’s mostly an exaggggggeration based on a few rare bad days Dr might have had off the record. I also highly suspect a major source of your impression can come from mixing in other sources of such nastiness. I’m thinking specifically of a botched re-iteration of Dr’s teaching by the evil Corps/clergy that I have OFTEN witnessed with my own eyes, both back in the good old days, the fog years, and even today in every splinter group. Unless we really work hard at it, it’s unlikely most of us can separate out in our memories “who said what” looking back some 20 years or more. Dr’s tape/print record and his casual remarks are all jumbled together in all of our heads along with much of what we heard from and saw in the declining leadership from Legion Leaders to twig leaders. The end product of all this mixing and combining ends up being what I call the “verbal tradition” we were subject to. That verbal tradition sucked real bad! It was pretty bad in the late Seventies, and it went down hill from there. Dr fought this evil verbal tradition in The Way and his fight IS in the record, in many places and in many ways. We just didn’t pay attention. We can now, though, because it’s being found on a daily basis by a small handful of people like me who decide to return to that record with a heart to meekly master what Dr told us to master in his Last/Lost Teaching. ********************************************************** Oakspear, you and others keep referring to comparing PFAL to the Bible, but you all keep ignoring the major problem that we don’t really HAVE the Bible, only what a very large team of scholars have given us. I’ve repeated demonstrated in many posts, the simplest and most complete of which is “Feelings,” that this tradition provided “Bible” is only approximate. Why do you keep shoving this intractable problem under the rug? Is it because it’s difficult to deal with? You cannot go into a single bookstore on this planet and buy THE Bible in English. You can only buy... .......................a version .................................of a translation ..........................................of a modern critical compilation ..................................................of varying, ancient, fragmented mis-copies. Tell me how you solve this problem so that you can do your error checking in comparing of PFAL to “the Bible.” You’re not really using the Bible but and approximation of the Bible, and God did better than a mere approximation like that in what He taught Dr and Dr taught us.

Hi Gang! I just got home and will be headed to bed (... must ...... avoid ..... posting .... too .... much ....) soon. I’ll try a quickie response to all this to match my earlier quickie. Maybe I was wrong about the lack of discussion these four points got. I’ll have to read the above posts again tomorrow (... must ...... avoid ..... posting .... too .... much ....) when I’m refreshed. I’m still chuckling about Rafael’s jab. Maybe I deserved it. I got so little sleep last night (non-GS related). Who knows... maybe I’ll have to take back some things, but then again, maybe not. I did see a few things in the responses to my 4 points that I’d take exception to. Then again there may be other points in my notes or memory (... must ...... avoid ..... posting .... too .... much ....), but later. Here is one observation that may help sooner or later, although it’s a bit remote at the present due to more data needed. Notice in Dr’s Last/Lost Teaching that in the list (which occurs twice) of the three things he tells his top leaders (and us) to master are the Foundational Class and the Intermediate Class, but a conspicuous absence of the Advanced Class. Why? There are several possible reasons (... must ...... avoid ..... posting .... too .... much ....) but I’ll be brief for now. It’s also the case that in the tape/print record that was available at the time of the teaching, there was nothing available for the AC except for a syllabus. The AC is again in a different category, compared to the other two classes. Also the AC changed from year to year in that classes in the early years it had a lot more material on spirits, later it had less. Later AC’s heavily emphasized the Foundational Class as ultra important. The Intermediate and Foundational were combined into one class a few times, and then separated again over several decades. But even when the were separate, the intermediate had a few collateral teachings included in the syllabus. Then the POP from Chris Geer has some very interesting comments from Dr about him being unhappy with the AC. Now I opened a huge can of worms with this point (... must ...... avoid ..... posting .... too .... much ....) but that’ll have to wait for later. You will find when we get to the POP that I am much more in agreement with people here, even though I cited it here. My main point here is that the Advanced Class seems to not be in the same category as the FC and the IC, and several pieces of evidence form that impression. I have a large file on a seemingly unrelated subject that also fits in here, but it will take some time (... must ...... avoid ..... posting .... too .... much ....) to get it all out in English. I call that related topic “Private Conversations With Dr” and as you may have come to expect, it’s pretty long. In a nutshell I think it’s a big mistake to place things Dr said off tape, and especially in private as doctrinal in any way. I have slowly formed a rating system even for tapes, where widely distributed SNS tapes of Dr’s are kinda high, while the Corps tapes and “in-house” tapes gravitate lower in priority. At the top of the list are the written materials that Dr identifies in his last teaching. He often stressed that the highest priority, ultimate standard is “It Is Written.” This is the motto of the Way Corps, isn’t it? It is well know that Dr put much more time into getting the print record as perfect as possible, and he placed a bit lower priority on tape. He went over the print record many, many times. He hardly EVER edited tapes of teachings. Almost the entire film class was done with one take, and hardly any editing. The PFAL book changed quite a few things that are on the film, and was the result of much thought and discussion. In answer to earlier questions to me about EXACTLY which books of his I regard God-breathed I must admit that I don’t know for sure...yet. The way I expect to know is to diligently work what I am from his final instructions. I’m still learning. I’m just extremely picky as to what I’m meek to learn from. I decided this after much, much thought. Some of it is up in the air, but that doesn’t deter me. I’m having fun, I’m blessed, and it’s has helped me much, so don’t bother me about it. It took Dr 27 years to earn this kind of respect, and I absolutely refuse to take seriously anyone who DEMANDS this kind of respect from me. I used to highly respect all the clergy and most of the Corps (not as high as I respect Dr now), but they ALL utterly destroyed that somewhat special respect I used to give them. I will respect them as fellow human beings, and as equal brothers in Christ today. But if tomorrow I learn of any one of them that he has a HEART to disobey Dr’s final instructions, then that respect rapidly plummets depending on how vehemently they think evil of my father in the Word. I’ll do my best to be civil and polite, but if they demand I think their way on any issue, I first consider the opposite and see if THAT lines up with the word. Summing all this up, I think Dr made mistakes in the Advanced Class just like I think he made mistakes in private conversations. He was human. Like you and I, He had to say at points in time and in some stretches of time “Oh wretched man that I am” just like Paul did too. Several times in the available tape/print record Dr issued variations on the “I wish I were the man I know to be.” Dr didn’t say to master the Advanced Class, he obviously omitted it. Since I have NOT yet mastered what he DID tell me to master, I feel I’m unqualified to sort all this out just now. I do not know which things in there are wrong, but I do know that I’m not trying to master the AC so I don’t NEED to know this...yet. I’ve got enough on my plate as is. I wont rely on it, NOR will I take any pot shots at it. (almost .... done ..... must ...... avoid ..... posting .... too .... much ....) I mentioned in another post that it is an ominous task to purge ALL that Dr taught me if I were to come to believe he was lying with all his “Thus saith the Lord” claims. It’s not ominous, but is difficult for me to purge and/or set aside for the time being all the Advanced Class or all the private conversations I had with him. It’s difficult, but I’m working on it. I also have the task of purging, or setting aside, all the other verbal and written teachings of all the other Way teachers, and all my own private non-PFAL research, but I’m doing it. To master some one set of things requires intensely focusing on that ONE set and none other. I do allow myself news and entertainment info, but no other teachers will I mix in with Dr’s material. I’m done with that. “No man can serve two masters” is part of this carefully chosen policy of mine. I want to really key in on Dr’s vocabulary (remember how we were taught that God used the vocabulary of the human writers in producing the Bible), and to do that I’ve eliminated meek reception of all other voices on the subject of God’s Word. I believe this is a safe thing to do ONLY after spending almost 30 years doing the opposite. (almost .... done ..... must ......finish .... soon) So surprise, surprise, I don’t hang on every word of the Advanced Class. I have quoted some of it here, but that is only material that is in agreement with the material I’m mastering.... so far. (getting .... sooo ...... sleepy....) So I don’t completely know all these answers that were asked of me... so far. (grammar ..... slipping.... need ..... pronouns ...) As I have time I’ll go over more details. All of life demands that we frequently must decide what is NOT going to get onto the high priority list, and what is NOT going to get done. One thing for sure I’ve locked onto is I must not think evil of Dr. I also know all the twelve apostles died of SOMETHING, as well as all the prophets, and I try to not think evil of them either. Same with GSers, even though THAT’s a challenge at times. (soon .... will ..... sleep ) So, I’m still waiting for Pawtucket’s approval before continuing with this thread’s topic. My guess is that very few of you have old Way Magazines. If anyone wants a preview I’m going to the May/June 1979 issue. That is where we will find much material on exactly what Dr means by “master” as well as material on HOW to master. There are a few surprises there. Nighty night. (snoooooooooooor blblblblblblbl snoooooooooooor blblblblblblbl)

Zix, Just a quickie. Some more possibilities about cancer to bring into the mix. 1. Can a devil spirit simply START a cancer, then depart, and from that point on it's totally a natural biochemical rat race that consumes the flesh? 2. What is the difference between a devil attacking the mind and attacking a skin cell or a liver cell? 3. Can a man say to God, let me die, I'm tired. I finished the job you gave me, so wake me up when it's all over. Can God accommodate him by withdrawing protection? 4. Do you remember the difference between possession and oppression? These 4 NEW data points have never entered the discussion here, as far as I've seen, nor any single verbal conversation I have been in or heard about in 17 years. Maybe I'm partially wrong on this, and one or two of you have discussed one or two of these points on one or two occasions. But, for the vast majority of you, because you choose to think evil, these possibilities have escaped your perceptions, and they never occurred to you. Let’s see how much they come up from now on. None? It’s your choice to think good or evil? Which will it be.? I’m turning off my computer for the next several hours. Talk amongst yourselves. It’ll be interesting when I get back to see how quickly these new points are discarded. At least give them about 10 seconds each. That’ll almost be a full minute. I choose to think these through for another 17 years at least.

I accept. I Am getting a little crabby here. I still need to get Paw's permission though. Anyone know his phone number can ask himn for me. Rafael, thanks for making me laugh. I needed it. By the way I'm ringing your phone right now. It's justringing.

Firebee, I did NOT post her name. I veiled it just enough I thought. It's some of YOU GUYS here who blew it for me and her and are still dragging it around here. Look at the record. If Abigail hadn't kept bringing it up, it would have been buried by now, but Noooooooooo. She had to get on my case at the expense of mj. I'm sorry mj or s. These people are out to get me and they don't care if they hurt you in the process. I really do apologize for having tried to answer you back. I should have ignored what you said, but then the'd go after me for that. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Abigail, I really tried to say hi to her, and peace be with her, AS she was pummeling me, without overtly giving out her name. You should be ashamed! I want to post the magazine article that my last big post left off with so that people who weren't around in '79 or who no longer have their mags can know what I'm talking about. I have sent Paw an e-mail asking permission, and am waiting a reply. I noticed he allowed alfakat to do that on his WOV post, but the way you folks behave here, I don't know if the same rules apply to me as to him. There is a total double standard around here with you folks. I think Paw will let me, but I think it's best to ask. He has not exhibited the hypocricy (sp) that some others wallow in here. Do I smell twi? I'm late for work. This is hard to leave. Everyone stop posting here for a while so that I can feel free to go to work, OK Abigail, that was a reaquest not a command.

Abigail, I gave EVERYONE with a brain 3 open transparent hints, I did not try to deceive. 1 NY big place, lots of people 2 lots of colleges there 3 everyone has computers. Do the math. I was wide out in the open, but you were in the shadows looking for clues. Maybe you've read too many Raymond Chandler novels. Just guessing. She was taunting me, so I guessed who she was and tried to remind her of how she contacted me, how we had a good time corresponding, and then she disappeared. I told the WHOLE story of what happened because she was alluding that MORE happened. I didn't want to confront her, especially in front of others, so i gently remind her. As gently as I know how in an antagonistic atmosphere to an antagonist. How would YOU have handled it if you wer in my shoes? Now if I got her identity wrong, guessed wrong, I might remind you that she did not tell me who she was in her goading. Plus others chimed in and ASKED me what happened. I told my side of the story. Do YOUR rules forbid that too? Does this remind anyone of a twi inquisition? It does remind me of it. A lot. I've got to go to work now. And I never did get my permission to post. Yes, I work on Sunday. Who wants to condemn me for that? Who'll start the bidding at fire? Do I hear fire? Fire from the SNL Church Lady over in the shadows. Do I hear Fire and Brimstone? Fire and Brimstone. Do I hear phychological torture before the fire and brimstone? Any one want to persecute this heretic of the sacred GS holy doctine? (to be continued)

Rafael, you are 100% correct. I almost inserted a little more to say that, but it would have deflected my point. Gamaliel was right in that he thought it was stupid to persecute some powerless poor fools, or so he thought. He did have a little world wisdom, but he missed the new birth, or so it seems from the absense of any more mention. At least he had a little 5-senses wisdom. I was exhorting people to rise up to even THAT little bit of wisdom. Can you please elaborate on this for me for those who don't want to look it up, or can't remember well enough?