Mike

48 minutes ago, Charity said:

And yes Rocky, I know Mike won't read my post  - but I enjoyed writing it.  

I don't know why you think that way.  I always read your posts.
There are so many comments directed at me that there is no way to respond to them all.

You seem to have missed the context in which I cited Deut 6.

The oxymoronic notion of "bible idolatry" had come up, so I asked how else can we love God, but by loving His Word.

God gave natural men, in Deut 6, a formula for loving Him by loving His words. That is how we who have the spirit must start also. How many loved seeing Romans 10:9 and got the spirit that way?

You seemed to imply that me citing Deut 6 was a mistake, because those people failed at it eventually.  But Jesus cited it also as the greatest commandment. You're not going to think that Jesus was in error also, are you?  He might be reading this, so think carefully.

Deut 6 gives us the HOW to love God with our mind.

When we add spirit to that equation it gets even better.

Just now, OldSkool said:

Not finished, it's just that your the only one painting 

It is finished for me.

If anyone wants to make further fools of themselves entertaining the idea of bible-idolatry, have at it.

No. I am just happy that THIS sub-topic is finished.

10 minutes ago, oldiesman said:

Yes.   This is what I surmised in an earlier post, i.e. the written Word aids and helps and directs us to worship Him.

Thank you sir.
It is pretty obvious, isn't it.

I mean, they all painted themselves into a corner on this one.

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Looks to me like lashing out in frustration.

LoL !

I'll let the folks at home decide for themselves there.

I wonder how many of them were able to check Jesus' sources and find Deut. 6 by themselves. 

It is likely that oldiesman and johniam would have gotten this little love quiz answered right and quick.   It's just a no-brainer to check out where Jesus was quoting in the OT.  I think I first did it my first year in the Word. No one showed me.

God told natural men of Israel to love God, and He told them how: become "Bible freaks."

In everyone's zeal to condemn me for doing what God commanded men to do long ago, and then calling it "biblio-idolatry," what we have here is a spectacular demonstration of group blindness.

(cue the orchestra)

THE ANSWER IS:

When Jesus cited the greatest commandment, he was quoting from a most pivotal and important scripture for his audience.

Deut 6:1-12
¹These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, ² so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.

³ Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.

⁴ Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

⁵ Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

⁶ These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.

⁷ Impress them on your children.

Talk about them when you sit at home

and when you walk along the road,

when you lie down and when you get up.

⁸ Tie them as symbols on your hands

and bind them on your foreheads.

⁹ Write them on the doorframes of your houses

and on your gates.

¹⁰ When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, ¹¹ houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, ¹² be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

*/*/*/*

Paraphrasing:  You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them.

And a little followup for us Christians with:

1 John 5:1-3
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. ² This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. ³ In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome...

I'm dying to give the answer, but I should wait for Rocky and Oldskool to have a chance at it.

7 minutes ago, So_crates said:

No, I don't see where you get off telling me what I need to learn. You need to learn how to motivate people. Playing head games is one way NOT to motivate people.

Oh, ok.  At your insistence I will seek to motivate you the right way. 
What do you think my chances of success are?

7 minutes ago, waysider said:

You've crossed the Rubicon, Mike.

Oh noooo.

I'm doomed as doomed can be!

14 minutes ago, So_crates said:

Yawn Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Do you see us rushing to our bibles?

You've made us long past caring.

Fake zzz's don't fool me, when you are rushing to post and debate.

This is really a simple answer, but since it fits in with what we were taught, your deliberately blinded eyes can't see it when challenged.

I wouldn't be surprised if oldiesman or johniam get it right away.

Think of this as a trivia question.

How did Jesus love God, and quote that commandment with a clear conscience that he had obeyed it?

How would those in Jesus' audience relate to hearing such a commandment. If theyh wanted to obey it, how would they do it?

11 minutes ago, waysider said:

How is this even reasonable? You tell me the Bible says something. When I ask you where, you say I need to find it myself.

It is because you need to LEARN how to find it for yourself, and so do the others.  I thought you Way Corps folks studied this stuff. 

Man!   HOW to love God is in my standard witnessing repertoire, if I get that far.

Do you think Jesus would have issued that great commandment for the people to love God if they didn't know how to love Him.  They knew; Jesus knew.

Put on your thinking caps.

1 minute ago, So_crates said:

Chapter and verse?

Not so fast.

Can't you dig for it?
At least let others try their hand at it.

29 minutes ago, waysider said:

When Jesus spoke of loving God, did it involve developing a reverence for the scrolls?

I thought you'd never ask.
Yes.

2 minutes ago, So_crates said:

So, you claim to agope us. Does that mean you love our words and our will?

Agape shows me how to forgive and overlook your words that are off the Word and not in agape. 

Did anyone do any deeper reading in Session One on the greatest sin and the greatest commandment? 

HOW are we to obey the greatest commandment, and love God first?

Harumphhhh !!!   bible idolatry !!!

How ELSE can we love God first,
if it is not His Word that we are to love?

3 minutes ago, waysider said:

None of this explains your infatuation with the collaterals.

I am addressing the oxymoronic notion of biblio-idolatry.

1 minute ago, waysider said:

 

Did anybody ask for one?

Yes, Rocky did.  He didn't use the word essay, though, it was implied.

I just re-read all the dodging responses to loving people's words and wills.

The bottom line of love for a human means to love their words and ultimately their will. 

That people can't see and agree to this tells me they never understood the first twelve minutes of the class, on the greatest sin being not loving God first.

This should be a no brainer to a PFAL grad.

We love God by loving His Word and His will.

That this is not obvious is very telling.

*/*/*/*

Now as far as nice smelling leather bindings, and gold edges, and fancy leather carved artwork, and an English version inside....   I can see people slipping into idolatry there....

13 hours ago, Rocky said:

Mike, are you trying now to find a new rationalization for bibliolatry?

Are you reluctant to challenge your beliefs?

I am very reluctant to waste time, writing a long essay for someone who is trying to find targets to shoot at, and not understand my essay.

If you search the past 6 months of my posts you will find a timeline in there, giving a rough outline of my back and forth considerations over a 18 year time span.   During those years I wrestled not only with VPW being the man of God, but also with the Bible's inerrancy, AND even the existence of a conscious God who was able to speak, read, and write in human languages. 

That rough timeline should give you an idea how large an essay you were demanding of me when you thought you had pinned me down on something.

You then act surprised that I muscle my way out of your invitation to a de-programming party!  ???   LoL

I think in your playing too much to the people at home, you lost track of how ridiculous a demand that was.

I also find it hilarious that you are trying to use the Biblical definition of "idolatry" to condemn those who love Biblical definitions.   Do I hear a Godel Bell ringing?

*/*/*

Are you reluctant to respond to my answer, that loving a human strongly implies loving their words, SO THAT you can come to know and love their will?

I saw some of the others dodging this below, because it seems they never got as far in my answer as the word "will."  

I know how nervous they must have got as they read some very familiar ideas and words in my answer.  

It probably blocked their understanding the ending with the word "will," as bad as the imagery of men-in-tights ruined the AOS music for them. (referring to an concurrent thread there.)

How do you really love someone deeply?
What is most important thing about someone you love?

Their words; their will.

12 minutes ago, cman said:

john was talking so why does this seem like prophesy?

???

10 minutes ago, cman said:

so .....

...so that you could read his text to you with understanding.

It took a little "doing" on my part to pull up the missing words.

I felt like a crypto cyber busto when I did it.  :)

27 minutes ago, cman said:

What makes you think John was talking about you?

cman, if you check the context, I was translating what Mark said to you. 

He had said it in highly abbreviated form, and I supplied the missing words.

The other posters thought that my translation was spot on.