Mister P-Mosh

WD, please put on your empathy hat for a minute and read again what P-Mosh said in his first and last post. If you will try to put yourself in his shoes, you might understand his motives better.

I don't think an "Inner Circle" on GS is a good idea, for the reasons I gave earlier in the thread, but it's certainly not because I don't empathize with the position P-Mosh and others are in.

I was at odds with my family twice over twi. First when I pushed them to get involved before they wanted to, and later, after they all got involved, when they left before I did. It wasn't easy, and that was even before the whole "mark and avoid" doctrine took hold, which adds even more pressure to a delicate situation.

Thanks Linda. It seems that most oppose my idea, so I won't discuss it further. I'm glad you understand my reasoning for suggesting it at least. If I have to choose between posting on this site and continuing to talk my innie parents, then I'll choose them. That's not to say that I would plan to leave, just that I plan to continue taking strong measures of anonymity here. My parents aren't stupid, but they are brainwashed by TWI and see devil spirits lurking around every corner like all of TWI's advanced class grads are conditioned to believe. I have to deal with them delicately as a result.

Did they really say he had ADHD? Because my precious grandson's mother thinks he has it and desperately wants him drugged within an inch of his life so she won't have to deal with it! And The Sprout's Sprout LOVES to swim! I got him lessons this summer, maybe I should try to continue them somehow to give him an outlet for his energy.

WG

It's harder, but she should try changing his diet first. No refined sugars and flours. If a kid eats nothing but fruit, vegetables, whole grain breads, good quality meat, dairy, and still has signs of ADHD, then medicine may be a thought. However, I seem to recall that most of the medicines, even ones like Ritalin, aren't completely tested for children and thus may have worse side effects than they solve. For most kids if they eat right and get enough exercise, they will change dramatically. There are definite problems and ADHD is real, but a lot of the times it's a poor diet, lack of exercise, and too much TV being misdiagnosed.

Woohoo!

My story is the lede item on the Drudge Report.

I may earn my salary with this one.

So how does your paper make money by having people go to your web site? Theoretically, being linked to on the front page of a popular site like Drudge will result in more people who are not in Florida reading your paper's site, and thus using resources and bandwidth while lowering your ad click revenue since out of towners don't need the things your local advertisers offer. As a result, you are actually costing the newspaper money by being linked to by Drudge. Your pay will be docked appropriately.

At least, that's what your boss might say.

I thought that God would give me double for my previous trouble and that it would be a good thing. Little did I know that the "double" was double trouble.

I'll talk to my wife, but there is a healthier way to make them as well, if you don't want pork/lard in them. She makes them fat free and they're great.

Also, I should probably post recipes for machaca con juevo (shredded beef jerky scrambled in eggs) and ceviche (raw fish with lime juice in basically pico de gallo) since they are really good traditional Mexican dishes that most people may not have tried.

Mosh... get thee to the BBQ!

dave... you too! just head south on I35 and give me a call when you get to DFW, we'll pool from there!

I'd love to go, but we'll see what happens closer to the date.

Why not just get another username to post any sensitive comments, so that it couldn't be traced to your current handle? Of course you would have to be dilligent to never offer any incriminating information such as location, etc, and leave specific posts that would give that kind of info to the private message category.

Maybe we could set up mentors here who could assist newbies and innies who want to vent, maybe a no read forum just for that or thru private messaging. I haven't been here so long to forget what it was like when I first found GS almost two years ago, with about zero knowledge of what had gone on behind the scenes and even about LCM's court case, it would have been nice to have something like that to ease the transisiton and have help in assimulating all the GS information.

Part of the problem, as far as I can tell, is that TWI "spies" read this site. As a result, there are people who can't really post things or risk having themselves identified and some trouble being created for innie friends and family. That's my main concern. I don't need some LCM wannabe trying to destroy my family because I post on this site and some of my relatives are still in TWI. As a result of this concern, I don't post personal information here. You won't see my real name, my birthday, my photo, photos of my family, information about where I grew up, who my friends in TWI were when I was a kid, what people I wish I could get in touch with from TWI, etc. If there are people in TWI insane enough to get angry at corps staff for letting a cigarette butt sit in their delicately manicured ashtrays outside at HQ, they are certainly insane enough to collect details on people that post here in the hopes of causing trouble for people no longer in TWI.

The bottom line is that I have to choose between making friends with people on this site and feeling free to open up versus keeping a relationship with my "earthly" family by pretending to be uninterested in the cult I grew up in which I now know is completely evil and full of lies and idiocy which is used to hurt my family members. My parents, for example, are nothing close to rich, yet they give more than the tithe because they hope that one day God will reward them for giving so much to the ministry, yet they don't have enough money to retire on. The Way bleeds people of their money, their time, their ability to think, their free will, and their happiness. However, despite this I simply don't feel comfortable talking about my personal experiences in TWI other than in a very vague way because I know that TWI reads this site.

I think my family and I may actually go this time. It's a shame that we haven't gone in the past despite living so close. I hope to rectify that.

A lot of us still have loved ones in TWI, or are still in ourselves for various reasons and want to leave. However, it has been proven in the past that members of TWI read the posts here and have used them against individuals before. As a result, every time those of us in these circumstances want to open ourselves up too much, we end up holding back. I know I have carefully guarded myself against revealing too much information here as well as getting too close to anyone on this site.

There is a possible solution though, and I'd like to hear what you all think about it. On message boards like this, you can create forums that are hidden from the public and only certain folks can view. In fact, I seem to recall hearing that there is one for the moderators here. We could use this to create another section of the site, what you could call "The Inner Circle" or something, that only folks that meet certain criteria of safety can access. That way, some WayGB person can't just register here and read the comments posted in that forum.

If we were to do something like that, I would suggest that it starts first with Pawtucket and the moderators. Then, they add the people they personally know that post on this site. Those people can vouch for others on this site, and so on until all of the "trusted" people are included. Oh, and by "personally know" I would also suggest making that require physically meeting people, not just someone you like on this site. I know that this would exclude a lot of people like myself, but it would help provide a more open area for everyone who can be a part of it to freely talk in.

Jonny,

I'm not sure why you got all worked up about a small part of my post, but it wasn't even that important of a thing. You've stated the obvious about why people seek employment, but completely missed the point of everything in my post. I don't really feel like restating what I've already said, so I'll leave it at that.

That seems a pretty random number ... in the long term, we are globally using more oil, prices will go up. (regardless of whether the current price is a bubble or not) Producing more locally helps our economy and slows the rate of increase as well as secures our US supply.

The $0.75 wasn't random at all. It came from the Department of Energy:

The opening of ANWR is projected to have its largest oil price reduction impacts as follows: a reduction in low-sulfur, light crude oil prices of $0.41 per barrel (2006 dollars) in 2026 for the low oil resource case, $0.75 per barrel in 2025 for the mean oil resource case, and $1.44 per barrel in 2027 for the high oil resource case, relative to the reference case.

It doesn't really matter where the US sells its production, since it is a global market.

That's not entirely true. It is a global market, but there is no universal price of oil. The U.S. pays less than most other nations, which is part of the reason our prices have gone up. Oil from the U.S. sells for a higher price than oil from OPEC, which is why about half of our oil is sold to Asia instead of using it to help Americans. As more and more controls are taken off of the market, the price will go up.

And there is probably no real way to embargo the US. I just heard even during the '73 (?) embargo, US supply actually increased. For now oil movement is a matter of what is most efficient ... revenues end up the same, and in crisis we could secure our own.

Since the 70's a lot has changed, so it is even harder for OPEC to do something like that now. In our globalized economy, we have created a world where so many other nations have invested in the U.S., they would suffer if we suffer too much. That's why the Saudis and the Chinese, despite deep ideological differences, would never do anything to cause the U.S. economy to collapse despite the fact that they have the ability to easily cause it.

Nuke plants could really help ... coal is OK, every industry loses lives ... people won't do without king crab, just because it is the most dangerous job and people die to put it on their plate. But unless they convert coal to liquid for transportation, I'm thinking nuke plants are better.

I guess we have different standards, but I personally find coal to be unacceptable simply for the mining process. It's too environmentally destructive even if you are ok with the loss of lives.

Well, I don't see the oil companies having as much control over price as OPEC. They have to be efficient and make a profit. Of course they are going to make more now with oil so high, but what about all the time oil was around $17?

The problem is that the oil companies have wealthy middle easterners involved with OPEC as top investors. Americans also have invested heavily in middle eastern nations, particularly places like Saudi Arabia, the UAE, etc. You have this extremely incestuous relationship between the nations, between the corporations, and between various individuals involved. So much moves around in these industries that everyone knows each other and there is definitely a "good ol' boy" network involving Americans, Saudis, etc. that controls the prices of oil.

Also, you're missing the point I made earlier about them turning oil from a commodity to a luxury good. Basically, by doing less work, they produce less gasoline, which in turn makes the gasoline prices go up because it is more scarce. If you could get paid twice what you are now by doing half of the work, wouldn't you want to take advantage of that?

The price is set globally ... of course they will sell it at market price. I don't know the reasons for some going to Asia while other oil comes here. It seems more about logistics ...

It's a complex market with many different prices. For example in my business, we have ships that bring natural gas over from Africa to us. However, that shipment is fair game until it reaches the port. Often, shipments headed towards us gets turned around, even if it's already in the Gulf of Mexico. The reason is because France or some other nation makes an offer at a higher price, so the company shipping it decides to sell it to them instead of us. It's a simple matter of asking who pays the most.

As multi national companies, these oil giants may be happy to drill where it is easiest, regardless of where it is. But as to protecting from globalization, that seems a good reason to get the drilling going locally.

In this case, easiest = cheapest. Drilling offshore is harder, therefore more expensive.

We can't drill our way out of the problem, but neither can we conserve our way out, or solar panel our way out. Democrats claim it is a Republican smoke screen, but certainly opening drilling stimulates the economy ... as well as decreasing the trade imbalance. Building rigs and refineries would also help.

The problem is that drilling will not solve the problem at all. Maybe $0.75 off of a barrel in a few decades, which to me doesn't sound like enough to be worth the effort, considering that we're toast if we don't have a better solution by then.

We have maybe 300 years worth of coal ... that can be pretty clean and help us along, though I think 2000 nuke plants is a better answer. How many nuke plants are being built right now?

I think "clean coal" is nonsense for the most part. Sure, they can capture a lot of the pollution, but the environmental impact of mining for it, as well as the extreme risks and loss of lives, I don't think it's worth it. Would you be willing to die so you can provide coal to the U.S.? I know I wouldn't. As far as nuclear power plants, I don't know how many are in the works, but I know that too is a long process. Nuclear power is a good thing, and in the process of transitioning to other sources of energy, we should look at it closer.

I think ALL politicians are the problem ... the all are deferring to their own special interest handlers, so it is all a big smoke screen.

There is certainly a problem there, but at the same time, the energy industries have sided strongly with the Republicans to a point where the Republicans can't make sound judgment on energy policies. The Democrats are often in the energy industry's hands too, but a little less so. Now if we could harvest all the hot air coming out of Washington, then I think our crisis would easily be solved by wind power. :-) In reality, we need to have the politicians step aside and have the nation's top scientists get together and talk, maybe put it on TV so the rest of America can see, and have them work out some possible solutions. Politics will not solve the energy crisis, but politicians can make things happen once a course is set.

I just pulled $70 out of the air ... if there is a global recession, maybe $40 ... I don't know. But as producing countries start keeping more of their oil, it may become more important to have our own. The argument that it will take 10 or 15 years seems more of an argument for starting on those projects now.

We already sell a huge amount of our oil for exports. I heard it was around half. If that's true, you would think that we could keep more of that, and while the profits of big oil companies would drop, we would have more oil available here. You won't see it though, because that might mean the CEOs of BP and Shell can't buy a new yacht for each day of the year anymore.

Sure it is complicated, but it has always been complicated, that's why we are happy to have Exxon and Chevron doing such a great job of getting gas into our tanks.

Actually they are only part of the equation, and if those companies were out to provide the best quality service to Americans for a fair price, I would agree with you. The oil companies are in collusion, they business is extremely incestuous and politicians are in their pockets. They are out to do one thing and one thing only -- increase their stock price in order to make money for their shareholders. Supplying oil or gasoline is just a part of that. They are trying to take a commodity and turn it into a luxury good. It makes more sense for them to sell the oil to Asia for a higher price than to sell it here out of loyalty to America. If one of the oil companies did take a stand in defense of our nation, they would be slaughtered in the stock market and their top management would all be replaced by shareholders. The system is broken because the dollar comes before our nation and our people.

As T Boone Pickens says, we need to do it all, definitely drill here as soon as possible ...

Despite agreeing with some of the things he says, he's first and foremost in this to make money, whether it benefits the country or not.

But I find some of your statements "extremely speculative". Oil might go back to $70, but that doesn't solve all the problems. Let's start on natural gas and nuke plans as well. T Boone likes the wind potential, which has come along faster than I had figured ... do it ALL. And we haven't even started to tap our coal, which is VAST.

I don't know that I speculated on what price oil could go down to, although if you look at what it was prior to Bush taking office, we were paying $24.49 for the refiner acquisition cost in January of 2000. After 9/11, the price dropped, reaching a low in December of 15.95 per barrel. So it is really sad that $70 for a barrel of oil seems cheap in comparison to what it is now. This is why I'm not willing to speculate about what the price could become in the future. However, I am certain that it is a bubble right now.

As far as solving problems, I think you're right. Even if the price went down to Clinton-administration prices, it would be a mistake to go back to our former ways. I hope that these high prices have served as a wake up call to Americans on the importance of protecting ourselves from the downfalls of globalization. As far as coal is concerned, I think it pollutes way too much, and mining for it is extremely dangerous and destructive. Fossil fuels are the way of the past, and we have to move past it. Wind, nuclear, solar, geothermal, tidal, radiant energy, and many other things will come to play in the future. I'm hoping that our nation finds ways to cheaply generate electricity from those sources, and it becomes a boom market for us to export to the rest of the world.

I haven't read much on what is actually leased and not being drilled, but my understanding was those not being used are less economically feasible. Do you have some links? Rigs take time, but not forever ... release the hounds .... arf ...

You're right about them being less economically feasible, but that is a complex thing. Getting to a point where you can obtain oil and send it to a place where it can be sold is a fairly complex thing. I'm in the natural gas business and have worked for Chevron in the past so I have scratched the surface of the topic, but it's something that top engineers and geologists are paid handsome salaries to work on. However, at a high level, you have to first find the oil, which is extremely difficult. Locating oil is not an exact science, and while technology has improved greatly, mistakes are still fairly common. Once you spend lots of money on finding the oil, you have to come up with proposals to get it out of the ground, which is sometimes not possible with current technology. Even when you can, the quality of the oil varies greatly, so if it is not very pure, you'll have to add in the expenses of treating it, and disposing of/selling what you extract from it. There are trace elements and other things we can pull out of the oil and if we can sell it, great, if not, it is another expense. You also have to deal with transportation, which can be complicated and expensive to deal with. For example, my current employer is working on a project to expand our natural gas pipeline, and you are talking about huge amounts of money (think bigger than millions) and decades worth of work, just to increase our capacity of pipe that we already have (we have the right of way already, we're just putting a bigger pipe in near where our smaller pre-existing pipeline is.) The time involved in just obtaining pipe prefabricated can be in the decades, so we've set up our own shop and obtained the raw materials to make our own. We can't wait 15 years for someone to ship us the pipeline we need (which is not an exaggeration, actually.) Anyway, so I don't bore everyone to tears, I will just say that it's an extremely complex topic that my post doesn't do justice. It's extremely complicated.

To answer your question about some links to back up what I've said, I would first suggest reading what the Department of Energy says offshore drilling would gain us, which is to say not much. As to how the oil companies are basically sitting on their permits and refusing to drill, I suggest reading this report from the House Resource Committee, which basically suggests that if they harvested the oil and natural gas from where permits already exist, they could double the output that they have now. I think it's a bit speculative to provide that number, given how much voodoo is involved in actually obtaining oil and gas, but it is worth taking a look at.

There is just no reason to not open ANWR ... too many Dems WANT higher oil prices, to force us to conserve and transform ... but we are still competing with China and Russia that don't give a darn about carbon credits or polluting with coal, so we are being put at even more disadvantage on the world scene.

I think ANWR should be a last resort, because we haven't started drilling in places where the permits have already been issued that are estimated to provide a lot more oil than ANWR can. The truth is that ANWR drilling and offshore drilling is a scam by the Republican party to trick the American people into thinking they have a simple solution to this mess, when reality is much more complicated. As far as Democrats wanting higher oil prices, they too are elected by the people, and I doubt their constituents or them want higher prices. There's no reason why we can't conserve and transform our economy no matter what oil prices are. The Republican party is the one made up of oil men and people in the energy business, as the Bush administration has proven. Bush and Cheneys' close personal ties with Enron executives, the Saudis, and the bin Laden family have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt. The past eight years have been the oil barrons' last hurrah, before they have to switch over to wind and other cleaner energies, as they have secretly started to do with their stock portfolios.

Rigs can move around pretty fast too ... I haven't kept up on that issue.

Yeah but if they're already in place being used, why would we move them to another location? It takes time for them to do their jobs, and it takes time to set up all the prerequisites to placing them on site. Again, it's a very, very complex issue.

The truth is that 1) we sell around half or more of the oil we have in the U.S. to Asia, 2) there is a lot of oil left in the world, but to get it will become increasingly difficult and expensive, 3) the whole "offshore drilling ban" thing is a political smokescreen because the oil companies already had permits to drill in many places offshore, of which about 60% are not being taken advantage of, and the Department of Energy says that drilling in Alaska will maybe take $0.75 off of a barrel of oil in a few decades. Oh, and the crisis we are going through right now is primarily due to speculators having free reign on the market without the same level of regulation the stock market has and the fact that China and India are increasing in their oil demand, and our oil companies sell U.S. oil to them for a higher price than we pay for OPEC oil, even with the increases we've seen lately.

My recurring thought while watching was that this country will be ruling the world soon..

Soon? They already have us on a leash. We as a nation just don't know it yet because we haven't tried to run past it's length yet. China has been more or less the same nation for thousands of years, with various rises and falls of different governments, but the people all know who they are. Communism has been a short blip, which they have been coming out of for a while now.

Their big@$$ church is about five minutes from where I work. They took the old basketball arena and converted it into a church. I'm thinking it's the largest church in the U.S. or something like that.

As to their doctrine, it is just wishy-washy feel good stuff, but it seems to draw a lot of people, so this atheist views it as being as good as any other church. The Olsteens do have a fame for liking the good life though.

Woohoo! Congratulations! It's good news, and having gone through that process fairly recently, if you need any suggestions or tips let me know.

I do have to tell you one thing though, take everything everyone tells you with a grain of salt. Your family is going to be wrong, her family is going to be wrong, your friends will be wrong, and any books you read will be wrong. Sure, they will have good ideas and guidance, but at the same time, things have changed, and what used to be ok is now known to cause problems. Still, don't worry too much, because this is a natural process that untold numbers of people have gone through in the past. Raising children seems to be the same way, as long as you do your best, your kids should turn out fine. There are no exact sciences with this stuff.

Oh, and on another topic, is this why you didn't make a "Cone of Edouard" thread? This thing is spinning over my house as we speak and I normally would have counted on GSCafe for all my tropical weather news.

I haven't ridden a bicycle since I was probably 15 years old, and think the little snobby Lance Armstrong jersey wearing bike riders of today are extremely lame. However, I find some things wrong with what you said.

From the critical mass bike rider site.

If I could avoid jail time for running them over,

my choices would MUCH simpler'

Personally, I find it kind of disturbing that the threat of jail time is the only thing preventing you from going on a murderous rampage. While I don't think you really meant what you said, I have to tell you that it's a sociopathic statement.

and then that cop wouldn't have to do what he did.

Like I said --- anarchists on two wheels, and they pi$$ me off

Murdering people for inconveniencing you is not right.

Civil disobedience?? No. This is akin to shouting Fire, in a crowded theater.

They do NOT pay for a license to drive, insurance (required for a motor vehicle),

registration fees, or tabs for a license plate. They have NO right to claim *rights*

(such as they do), merely because they are *traffic*.

Paying taxes is not a requirements to being a U.S. citizen. While there are taxes required for many things, you don't have to pay taxes to be able to walk down a sidewalk or be able to ride a bike down the street. If you did, children everywhere would be beaten up by the cops on a daily basis.

As others have pointed out, the fees for driving a car are because 1) the wear and tear on the roads, 2) the fact that the automobile is the deadliest weapon in the U.S. that kills more Americans every month than died in 9/11, 3) it produces a lot of pollution and has to be maintained to minimize it. There is good reason for cars to have so many laws and regulations.

Additionally, I have friends who are good, law abiding bike riders. They get harassed all the time, being run into/run over is a way of life, and being cussed and threatened even while riding individually and staying all the way to the right is normal. Cyclists have it really rough, and I think more bike paths should be built. When I was living in California, my wife and I would go walking on the paths all the time and it was great to be away from the streets. Had we stayed longer, I probably would have picked up a bike to ride to work instead of driving. Riding a bike seems like a great way to travel short distances, stay in shape, and save money.

I'm not in favor of blocking streets, especially when it limits the possibility of ambulances and fire trucks getting through. I don't like being inconvenienced as a driver, but I have more problems with people driving cars while using a cellphone, putting on makeup, reading a book, using a laptop, being too old and impaired, and many other things than I do with cyclists.

I went out silently into the day, as the long, dark night of TWI fell away into the wonders and warmth of the daylight of reality. :-)

Seriously, I saw how others did it, and saw the downsides of trying to go out without making the TWI leadership mad. I also wanted to avoid saying or doing something that would have me labeled Mark and Avoid, or going through some long drawn out process like most of you did. Since I was living on my own at the time and far from any family and friends in TWI (I had moved for a job), it was quite easy to just stop going to any TWI functions. I did feel a little bad that I was scheduled to teach for about 50% of the next month, but I at least was courteous enough to stop going and stop being in contact with them on a week that I wasn't teaching.

So anyway, I got a few angry phone calls from my aggro HFC to my home and work phones, I think even the limb coordinator might have tried to call me once, and there was a good guy in my fellowship that called me a few months later when I accidentally picked up. By saying a good guy, I mean it, because his heart was in the right place and he probably disobeyed leadership to try to reach out to me. I hope he and his family are out now.

A few months after I left TWI, I moved halfway across the nation and didn't deal with TWI again with the exception of friends and family still in, who I assume the leadership in my former state never talked to about me. That's really strange, in my opinion, because word traveled fast in years before then.

There is other stuff that would be funny, especially related to what some others have said, but I won't post more information that could personally identify me, so I can't.

for that matter, *we* might be the minority. Even worse, maybe *we* are their some kind of "pet"..

Thanks for the earworm! Now I have that Porno for Pyros song stuck in my head. :P

Besides George Lopez,there my favorite mexican comedians(i can say that because I am hispanic too)

You do realize that none of them are Mexican, right? Cheech and Lopez are from L.A. Tommy Chong is Canadian who is part Chinese. It's also good that you didn't mention Carlos Mencia, because he's a complete faker. His real name is "Ned Holness" and I'm not sure if he's actually even hispanic at all.

I just had to point this out because it annoys my wife (and now by extension, me) whenever Americans refer to themselves as Mexicans just because someone in their ancestry came from Mexico. There is a huge difference between someone from Mexico and even a first-born American whose parents came from Mexico, and my wife hates when all these crude, moronic, people (especially Carlos Mencia) make up lies and attribute it to latinos or Mexicans.

Note: Guiness is not an Irish beer because it's brewed in Canada. I prefer a real Irish beer like O'Hara's.

Incorrect. Guinness is brewed in Ireland, but they have breweries in the U.S. and Canada too I suppose. In any case, it tastes much better in Ireland, despite their attempts to have strict controls on it elsewhere. Personally though, my favorite right now is Hoegaarden.

If we are talking intelligent life like we are (well, that's debatable), or other carbon based life forms, I would like to believe so, and I used to believe so, but over the years no, I don't anymore. The more astrophysisists and scientists learn about space and the universe, the more they are seeing its not feasible. The consensus is more along the lines of no. Astrophysisists also believe there has not been enough time in this universe (14-15 billion years old) for life to form from simple, single cell, bacteria to the full scale animal and human life we have on this planet (cite - evolutionary biologist Franciso Ayala, Quoted by Frank J. Tipler in "Intelligent Life in Cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology 2(2003):142.

We also have scientists that say bees can't fly, yet they do. The interesting thing about science is that it involves making mistakes and learning from them, and proposing theories that you test, and if they prove valid you keep them, and if not, you throw them out and learn from them. At this point, it's simply not possible to tell. However, Mars is sounding hospitable for unicellular organisms and such, so we'll see if that is announced soon.

How ironic though. One of the few that really seems to have figured out how to live life to the fullest, and his is cut short.

With all the jerkoffs and goofballs around that live long - pointless - existences the one in a million who seems to get it right, and this happens. Too damned sad...

I have a feeling that people like him seem to understand so many things precisely because they know their time is very limited. For most of us, barring some unforeseen event, we expect to go on living quite a bit longer. That makes us a bit complacent. If you were told today that you have three months to live, I bet you would get your stuff in order quickly and try to do all the things you want to do.

I've noticed a similar, albeit different, attitude in the elderly. The happiest elderly people are the ones who accomplished the things they wanted in life and feel satisfied with the results. They spend their remaining years as spectators of the rest of us living our lives, and seem grateful that they get to see what is going on for yet another day.

Question I'd _really_ like to see answered is finding any civilizations out there who not only have achieved space flight, ... but have achieved faster than light space flight. :B)

But hey! Maybe that's the Trekker in me.

I could propose a theory here. Let's assume that life would come about on other planets in similar ways to how it did on Earth. Let's even go as far as saying that all life has to be similar to life on Earth because of some yet unknown laws of physics and such.

So if alien life is similar to what we have, with some possible modifications (e.g. lizard-people, fish-people, etc), and because of the big bang, the time life was able to come about on those planets was around the same time it did on Earth, give or take a few million years, it's likely that any other civilizations out there would be in a similar point of evolution as ours. That would mean that some civilizations would be further ahead, but since breaking the laws of physics, such as FTL travel, is so advanced, it's unlikely any other civilization would have reached that point yet. That would explain why we haven't seen real evidence of other societies in space yet. It's entirely possible even that we are the most advanced life in the universe, or the furthest behind.

There's a lot of cool possibilities, but I think that we will probably never know if there is life elsewhere or not. Unfortunately.

Hi Mr P-Mosh

I owe you a great big apology--I did sound a bit bitter to say the least. Did you ever have one of those days where it seems the bad news will not quit? Well, I had a couple of those weeks recently.

geisha,

Don't worry about it, and realistically I don't think you said anything any worse than I did, so if you owe me an apology I owe one in response. Topics like the ones we've discussed here enter into the realm of core beliefs of people and things that are important to us, so there's no doubt that discussion and debate can get heated. So don't worry about it, and I'll also try to remain civil from here on out.