Hidden Wholeness

[sirguessalot]

here is the first chapter of a book i am studying in both theory and praxis

called "Hidden Wholeness," by Parker Palmer

as part of a project, i had to scan and prepare the text for some friends of mine

but since the work was done...i thought i would share it with friends here, too

Palmer's work is based an some amazing Quaker traditions

which not only makes them deeply Christian

but quite deeply American, as well

my hope is that this chapter offers insight into ways of being

that might not only help us heal from the negatives of our TWI experience

but might also help us build and deepen whatever good we experienced there

and not only to help us find better ways of being with each other in this venue

but especially helping us find better ways of being with our selves together

i do look forward to comments, reflections, responses, reactions, experiences...etc

btw..no, i am not a Quaker

peace

CHAPTER I

Images of Integrity

Living "Divided No More"

jack pines. . . are not lumber trees [and they] won't win many beauty contests either. But to me this valiant old tree, solitary on its own rocky point, is as beautiful as a living thing can be. . . . In the calligraphy of its shape against the sky is written strength of character and perseverance, survival of wind, drought, cold, heat, disease. . . . In its silence it speaks of. . . wholeness. . . an integrity that comes from being what you are. ...Douglas Wood

Into the Wilderness

Every summer, I go to the Boundary Waters, a million acres of pristine wilderness along the Minnesota-Ontario border. My first trip, years ago, was a vacation, pure and simple. But as I returned time and again to that elemental world of water, rock, woods, and sky, my vacation began to feel more like a pilgrimage to me-an annual trek to holy ground driven by spiritual need. Douglas Wood's meditation on the jack pine, a tree native to that part of the world, names what I go up north seeking: images of how life looks when it is lived with integrity.

Thomas Merton claimed that "there is in all things. . . a hid­den wholeness." But back in the human world-where we are less self-revealing than jack pines-Merton's words can, at times, sound like wishful thinking. Afraid that our inner light will be extin­guished or our inner darkness exposed, we hide our true identities from each other. In the process, we become separated from our own souls. We end up living divided lives, so far removed from the truth we hold within that we cannot know the "integrity that comes from being what you are."

My knowledge of the divided life comes first from personal experience: I yearn to be whole, but dividedness often seems the easier choice. A "still, small voice" speaks the truth about me, my work, or the world. I hear it and yet act as if! did not. I withhold a personal gift that might serve a good end or commit myself to a project that I do not really believe in. I keep silent on an issue I should address or actively break faith with one of my own con­victions. I deny my inner darkness, giving it more power over me, or I project it onto other people, creating "enemies" where none exist.

I pay a steep price when I live a divided life-feeling fraud­ulent, anxious about being found out, and depressed by the fact that I am denying my own selfhood. The people around me pay a price as well, for now they walk on ground made unstable by my dividedness. How can I affirm another's identity when I deny my own? How can I trust another's integrity when I defY my own? A fault line runs down the middle of my life, and whenever it cracks open-divorcing my words and actions from the truth I hold within-things around me get shaky and start to fall apart.

But up north, in the wilderness, I sense the wholeness hid­den "in all things." It is in the taste of wild berries, the scent of sun­baked pine, the sight of the Northern Lights, the sound of water lapping the shore, signs of a bedrock integrity that is eternal and beyond all doubt. And when I return to a human world that is transient and riddled with disbelief, I have new eyes for the whole­ness hidden in me and my kind and a new heart for loving even our imperfections.

.

In fact, the wilderness constantly reminds me that wholeness is not about perfection. On July 4, 1999, a twenty-minute mael­strom of hurricane-force winds took down twenty million trees across the Boundary Waters.3 A month later, when I made my annual pilgrimage up north, I was heartbroken by the ruin and wondered whether I wanted to return. And yet on each visit since, I have been astonished to see how nature uses devastation to stim­ulate new growth, slowly but persistently healing her own wounds.

Wholeness does not mean perfection: it means embracing brokenness as an integral part of life. Knowing this gives me hope that human wholeness-mine, yours, ours-need not be a utopian dream, if we can use devastation as a seedbed for new life.

Beyond Ethics

The divided life comes in many and varied forms. To cite just a few examples, it is the life we lead when

= We refuse to invest ourselves in our work, diminishing its qual­ity and distancing ourselves from those it is meant to serve

= We make our living at jobs that violate our basic values, even when survival does not absolutely demand it

= We remain in settings or relationships that steadilty kill off our spirits

= We harbor secrets to achieve personal gain at the expense of other people

= We hide our beliefs from those who disagree with us to avoid conflict, challenge, and change

= We conceal our true identities for fear of being criticized, shunned, or attacked

Dividedness is a personal pathology, but it soon becomes a problem for other people. It is a problem for students whose teach­ers "phone it in" while taking cover behind their podiums and their power. It is a problem for patients whose doctors practice medical indifference, hiding behind a self-protective scientific facade. It is a problem for employees whose supervisors have per­sonnel handbooks where their hearts should be. It is a problem for citizens whose political leaders speak "with forked tongue."

As I write, the media are filled with stories of people whose dividedness is now infamous. They worked at such places as Enron, Arthur Andersen, Merrill Lynch, WorldCom, and the Roman Catholic Church, to name a few. Surely these people heard an inner call to wholeness. But they became separated from their own souls, betraying the trust of citizens, stockholders, and the faithful-and making our democracy, our economy, and our reli­gious institutions less trustworthy in the process.

These particular stories will soon fade from the front page, but the story of the divided life will be in the news forever. Its drama is perennial, and its social costs are immense. The poet Rumi said it with ruthless candor eight hundred years ago: "If you are here unfaithfully with us / you're causing terrible damage."

How shall we understand the pathology of the divided life? If we approach it as a problem to be solved by "raising the ethical bar"-exhorting each other to jump higher and meting out tougher penalties to those who fall short-we may feel more vir­tuous for a while, but we will not address the problem at its source.

The divided life, at bottom, is riot a failure of ethics. It is a failure of human wholeness. Doctors who are dismissive of patients, politicians who lie to the voters, executives who cheat retirees out of their savings, clerics who rob children of their well-being-these people, for the most part, do not lack ethical knowledge or convictions. They doubtless took courses on pro­fessional ethics and probably received top grades. They gave speeches and sermons on ethical issues and more than likely believed their own words. But they had a well-rehearsed habit of holding their own knowledge and beliefs at great remove from the living of their lives.

That habit is vividly illustrated by a story in the news as I write. The former CEO of a biotechnology firm was convicted of insider trading and sentenced to seven years in prison after putting his daughter and elderly father in legal jeopardy by having them cover for him. Asked what was on his mind as he committed his crimes, he said, "I could sit there. . . thinking I was the most honest CEO' that ever lived [and] at the same time. . .glibly do something [wrong] and rationalize it."

Those words were spoken by an expert at "compartmental­izing"-a much-prized capacity in many lines of work but at bot­tom no more than a six-syllable name for the divided life. Few of us may share the speaker's fate, but many of us already share his expertise: we developed it at school, where ethics, like most sub­jects, tends to be taught in ways that leave our inner lives untouched.

As teenagers and young adults, we learned that self-knowledge counts for little on the road to workplace success. What counts is the "objective" knowledge that empowers us to manipulate the world. Ethics, taught in this context, becomes one more arm's­-length study of great thinkers and their thoughts, one more exer­cise in data collection that fails to inform our hearts.

I value ethical standards, of course. But in a culture like ours-which devalues or dismisses the reality and power of the inner life-ethics too often becomes an external code of conduct, an objective set of rules we are told to follow, a moral exoskeleton we put on hoping to prop ourselves up. The problem with exoskeletons is simple: we can slip them off as easily as we can don them.

I also value integrity. But that word means much more than adherence to a moral code: it means "the state or quality of being entire, complete, and unbroken," as in integer or integral Deeper still, integrity refers to something-such as a jack pine or the human self-in its "unimpaired, unadulterated, or genuine state, corresponding to its original condition."

When we understand integrity for what it is, we stop obsess­ing over codes of conduct and embark on the more demanding journey toward being whole. Then we learn the truth of John Middleton Murry's remark, "For the good [person] to realize that it is better to be whole than to be good is to enter on a strait and narrow path compared to which his [or her] previous rectitude was flowery license."

Living "Divided No More

A jack pine "solitary on its rocky point" is one of the loveliest sights I know. But lovelier still is the sight of a man or woman standing with integrity intact. Speak the names of Rosa Parks or Nelson Mandela-or other names known nowhere but within your own grateful heart-and you catch a glimpse of the beauty that arises when people refuse to live divided lives.

Of course, wholeness comes more easily to jack pines than to human beings: Pinus banksia is unable to think itself into trou­ble! We are cursed with the blessing of consciousness and choice, a two-edged sword that both divides us and can help us become whole. But choosing wholeness, which sounds like a good thing, turns out to be risky business, making us vulnerable in ways we would prefer to avoid.

As I was working on this book, Time magazine published its 2002 year-end issue, naming Cynthia Cooper, Coleen Rowley, and Sherron Watkins its "Persons of the Year." They were honored for confronting corruption at WorldCom, the FBI, and Enron, respectively, honored for turning their consciousness toward living "divided no more." They took their inner truth into the outer world, reclaiming their personal wholeness and helping our soci­ety reclaim some of its own.

Sadly such courage is not universally admired. Sherron Watkins has been reviled by some of her ex-colleagues at Enron, who believe that if she had kept her mouth shut, they could have saved the company and their jobs. Since much of the evidence suggests that Enron had become a massive shell game, their criti­cism tells us less about a good business plan than about how unpopular integrity can be. "There is a price to be paid," said Cyn­thia Cooper of World Com. "There have been times that I could not stop crying."

In the wash of information that surrounds us, the stories of Cooper, Rowley, and Watkins will soon be swept away. And yet I have to wonder, is information overload our problem, or did we want to forget how these three witnessed to the real-world possi­bility of an undivided life? That three ordinary people refused to live a lie means the rest of us could do it, too-if we were willing to embrace the challenge of becoming whole.

But we cannot embrace that challenge all alone, at least, not for long: we need trustworthy relationships, tenacious communi­ties of support, if we are to sustain the journey toward an undi­vided life. That journey has solitary passages, to be sure, and yet it is simply too arduous to take without the assistance of others. And because we have such a vast capacity for self-delusion, we will inevitably get lost en route without correctives from outside of our­selves.

Over the years, my own need for community has led me to collaborate with others in creating settings where there is mutual encouragement for "rejoining soul and role." One result has been a national retreat program for public school educators who face daily threats to their personal and professional integrity-threats that, if they go unmet, will imperil our children's well-being.

As word of that program spread, people in other arenas-par­ents and politicians, clergy and physicians, community organizers and corporate executives, youth workers and attorneys-began to ask where they could get similar help. In response, the program was expanded to help people from many walks of life bring their integrity more fully into the world.

So this book is not a theory in search of applications: the principles and practices explored here have been proven on the ground. Now they seek even wider use, wherever people want to live undivided lives that are joined to the needs of the world. The first half of the book explores the sources of our dividedness and of the call to live "divided no more." The second half offers guid­ance for creating settings where people can support each other on the journey toward an undivided life.

. Chapter II diagnoses the divided life, examines its personal and social consequences, and tells stories of what integrity looks like from infancy into adulthood.

. Chapter III lays out evidence for the claim that we arrive in this world with a soul or true self and looks at what happens when we ignore, defy, or embrace our own truth.

. Chapter IV explores a paradox: our solitary journey toward rejoining soul and role requires relationships, a rare but real form of community that I call a "circle of trust."

. Chapter V names the preparations required if that inner journey in community is to take us somewhere worth going.

. Chapters VI, VII, VIII, and IX describe in detail the practices necessary to create spaces between us where the soul feels safe enough to show up and make its claim on our lives.

. Chapter X makes the case that the principles and practices explored in this book can help us walk the path of nonviolence in our everyday lives. Can we learn to respond to the mounting violence of our time with soul-honoring and life-giving ways of being in the world? Much depends on the answer.

a few wiki p articles that might be helpful for some background

Parker Palmer

Quakers

Edited October 12, 2006 by sirguessalot

[allan w.]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........................

[sirguessalot]

:)

[Abigail]

It looks very interesting, Sir. Some first reaction thoughts:

"It is a failure of human wholeness"

I can't help but wonder though, is it entirely a failure of human wholeness, or simply another part of the process?

I keep silent on an issue I should address or actively break faith with one of my own con­victions.

I wish the author would give us some specific examples, because on the one hand I entirely understand what is being said here. On the other hand, I sometimes think in breaking faith with a conviction we discover that the conviction may have been an erroneous one - at least in part. Again, a part of the process?

Wholeness does not mean perfection: it means embracing brokenness as an integral part of life. Knowing this gives me hope that human wholeness-mine, yours, ours-need not be a utopian dream, if we can use devastation as a seedbed for new life.

And here I agree 100%, except I am not sure I would call us broken. I often think what appears broken to others, may in fact, be entirely perfect just the way it is. Like that worn out pair of tennis shoes that others think we should toss in the garbage, yet we know fit our feet better than any new pair ever could.

[VeganXTC]

Thank you for sharing this chapter. I found it very interesting.

In order for integrity to be maintained, it must be truthful and whole. But we are very complex beings. My truth now is very different than it was 20 years ago, and I am sure it will be different 20 years in the future. And my truth is very different than everyone elses. Is there any accountability? Or maybe everyone's truth is equally needed?

[lindyhopper]

I enjoyed a lot of it and had some of the same reactions as Abigail did.

I too have an aversion to the word "brokenness." Perhaps "incompleteness" works better for me, even though it sounds more contradictory.

I like "Wholeness is not prefect." I think of wholeness as not feeling the extreme needs and wants. Of course there is always food and shelter etc. but I understand what he is talking about with the feeling you can get when in the wilderness. It is one of my most favorite places....the middle of nowhere. In places like that you can forget all your cares and focus on the infinitely smaller intricacies and the expanse of everything at the same time. My wife has even more experience with hiking and backpacking and describes the feeling as a connectedness or loosing yourself. What you are going to eat and where you are going to sleep become your only concerns.

I'm surprised of Allan's response to that part of it. I believe you are in New Zealand.....one of the most amazing and beautiful places on earth. Perhaps he was posting in his sleep.

I seem to have an talent for seeing things this way whether I am in the middle of the woods or the middle of Manhattan. I guess it is the artist side of me that is always looking at the little things instead of blowing by them. It is not unusual for me to stare off in a conversation making a little composition in my head of the cityscape or the sidewalk.

Getting a little sidetracked....

I also struggle at times with my profession vs. my values, as a designer. I try and find a balance. On one hand I don't want good design to only go to the very rich, while on the other I do want to make money in a business. I can spend a ton of time designing a place for someone and shopping for all the comfort items they will need in it, meanwhile I don't want to forget about those that struggle for food and the basic necessities. I want to go as "green" as possible while sticking to the clients' needs and wants. I don't want to support extravagance, but I do want to give people a place that can be that refuge away from the world...a place they feel comfortable, stress free, and happy, if not more whole.

I think in my life, in the short time I have been outside of twi, I have gotten quite a bit of wholeness in my life. Alothough, while in it I was definitely living a divided life, as the author describes it. Now, what you see is what you get with me. No games, no masks as Nietzsche would say, but up front and unarmed. Although, I do still tip toe at times around my family that is still in twi. I think it is something that has helped me"weed out" relationships and/or friendships without really trying at all. Somepeople like it, some would rather gossip, backstab, and play games.

I tend to agree with the general topic. Although, my twi years still leave a distaste for anything that seems to have a formula for life, but I guess the guy does have to have chapters. I also still don't like catch phrases like "rejoining soul and role", plus it just seems a little cheesey, but I understand the need for those sorts of things.

Anyways, thanks and I hope it is ok to post part of the book here.

Edited October 11, 2006 by lindyhopper

[sirguessalot]

very cool...thanks for those immediate replies

a few thoughts on the fly...

i think it might help to remember, too

that this is only the first chapter

in a pretty densely nutritious book

and so it really is the "big fat claim" portion of the book

and provides virtually no detail

i guess what im saying is that i wouldnt expect too much out of it

and yeah...i dont even know what is right or wrong any more about posting such a thing

i suppose i'll pay whatever price should someone find a cause

i only plan on posting the first chapter, anyway

...

anyway...

i tell ya

guys like Parker Palmer have been successfully teaching teachers and writing about it for a long long time,

and all one really has to do is spend a little time digging in and around the works of modern practicing quakers

to see that there is already a huge growing body of stories and research and thought around it all

but again...there really are 9 more chapters of densely nutritious practical stuff

with plenty of case studies and stories to illustrate

not that i am selling the book here

...there are millions of good books

I can't help but wonder though, is it entirely a failure of human wholeness, or simply another part of the process?

well, i think you nailed it with that question

which really does speak to the common heart of most conclusions

and too, i think our preference for words is always worth looking into

as well as making sure we know how any given speaker is using it

english seems an increasingly difficult language to define, let alone use these days

and finding the meat of the intent behind them takes a little more time than we are often inclined to give

especially considering how severely twi taught us to warp and re-warp common words

into some perfect unchanging meaning

...not that there are absolutely true or absolutely untrue meanings

just the opposite

we simply have to develop the skill to know what each other is meaning

whether we are reader and author, or you and me in a cafe

...

that said..

(this is just my impression...not all of which would disagree or agree with Parker's book)

it seems to me

that if i am a whole being of many parts

but i think i am only a piece of what i really am

in a sense...i am broken

simply for not knowing how whole i am

and those pieces i do not think are mine

simply haunt me as if it was an "invading or oppressive other"

and this condition is considered, by many schools of thought,

to be the most natural state of every given person

most all of the time

since the dawn of man

and it is a very real place that we all naturally experience

though we may want to claim we have no such darkness left in us

we are under the illusion that our un-whole-ness is a whole-ness

we act according to that illusion

or if we are under the illusion that our un-whole-ness is true but an evil curse

we act according to that illusion

a perspective of whole-ness requires that we includes our shadows and scars

as well as our deepest gifts and yearnings

or we are simply not seeing the whole self picture "as God would"

...we are being partial in our approach

and so our life's work is realize the nature of our actual wholeness the face of brokenness

not just in theory...but to unfold and experience the actual texture and contour of the soul in life

were we can find actual value and distinction in the shape of the lines that define all our many pieces

to pick up on the theme of many traditions and schools of thought

i would even go as far as to call the shape of our very soul "our most beautiful and holy wound"

and seeing all the parts of "the whole wound" that we are

requires that we find a perspective that is even able to witness it all

to tease out all the lines of our entering into this universe

is to trace the lines of an amazing scar

but most are either too terrified to make such a choice

or too distracted to realize such a choice can even be made

both of which are quite natural, too

and it really couldn't be any other way

which is why the quakers incorporated a lot of silence and space in their elder communities

in order to actually experience that place of silence in a profound way

simply by enduring it

in order to see what happens next

and what happened next is much like what happened throughout all the scripture stories

in terms of visions, dreams, predictions, compassion, community, meaning, etc...

compared to many traditions

i would say that twi had us fill such an "evil" silence with all kinds of noise and activity

and effectually blocked out the root essence of the voice of God

...traditionally

(i love "speaking in tongues," btw..and still do, and practice it daily in my own ways)

Edited October 12, 2006 by sirguessalot

[sirguessalot]

and i just want to add real quick

to rid certain confusions

i also believe that many people (such as myself) had truly positive life changing experiences with tongues and such while in the way

in fact, i would even go as far to say that if the tongues of twi was really being practiced,

that it could actually help people genuinely come to recognize the silent nature that has been described as the voice of God throughout many traditions and schools of thought

but as we know, how more often than not, the way life was lived as a community in twi often worked against our own intentions and collective gifts....though not always, of course

Edited October 12, 2006 by sirguessalot

[VeganXTC]

I agree that there is a time for being still, whether you do that by sitting zazen, or praying, or speaking in tongues. But I wonder if there isn't also a time for activity. If you can still hear the voice of God while journeying, like Saul of Tarsus did.

[Abigail]

Lindy, I hear you, especially when it comes to the divide that can occur between career and personal life. Working in the legal field that can be especially tricky - do you use every loophole you can find to win, because professionally you are to use the existing laws to represent your client to the best of your ability? Or do you ignore certain technicalities in the interest of overall justice and fairness? Thankfully, I work for two very ethical attorneys who truly do seem to be intereseted in justice and fairness as opposed to winning at all costs, justs for the sake of being able to say they won.

Sir,

"english seems an increasingly difficult language to define, let alone use these days

and finding the meat of the intent behind them takes a little more time than we are often inclined to give"

It is a battle I have struggled with my entire life. I used to dread taking tests because I would read a question and could interpret it in so many different ways. I would get so caught up in trying to understand exactly what was being asked that I would miss the overall picture of what the subject matter was supposed to be about. I see my older son struggle with this issue as well. We have many conversations about sarcasm v facetiousness v figures of speech, etc.

"it seems to me

that if i am a whole being of many parts

but i think i am only a piece of what i really am

in a sense...i am broken

simply for not knowing how whole i am

and those pieces i do not think are mine

simply haunt me as if it was an "invading or oppressive other""

Amen. It takes a great deal of time, wisdom, self-confidence, self-love, and self-acceptence to see and accept our many parts. It requires overcoming all the negatives that have been tossed at us regarding some of those parts - overcoming the shame that was intentionally or unintentionally instilled in us by our parents, friends, society, etc.

I think that is a large part of the root (from a psychological perspective) of the need for a savior. Yet, at the same time, I think religion also often (though not always) plays a large role in preventing us from seeing and accepting all of our pieces.

[sirguessalot]

I agree that there is a time for being still, whether you do that by sitting zazen, or praying, or speaking in tongues. But I wonder if there isn't also a time for activity. If you can still hear the voice of God while journeying, like Saul of Tarsus did.

yeah, there seems a time

there are ways to practice being present in work, play, eating, sex, etc...

good athletes are present while active, or they are not good athletes

good musicians

good dentists

like 'being still while moving'

not applying brakes to stop

not applying gas to go

but rather...taking off the clutch

and paying attention to what comes next

there are prayers and meditation while walking, eating, celebration, etc...

that have all already been developed into arts and sciences

even ways of being a warrior in battle that lives in presence as the field of silence that the very war rages in

but a common thread, it seems

as that the silent sitting is really the ground of all the other stuff

because practicing sitting with silence cultivates our awareness of the basic truths of it

in preparation for a life of ways of embodiment of those same inward truths

in other words...sitting with silence is the baby food of all traditional spiritual practice

whether one is a jew, gentile, or something else

and though being still and silent should be the easiest place to start

(due to actually requiring less than any other kind of activity)

it is often the hardest place to be in this hyper age

and when we skip that "easy" part

we really are putting the proverbial cart before the horse

often acting on behalf of our thoughts and feelings about God

when we have never really gotten used to observing our own thoughts the way God does in the first place

and then there are always other things...

Edited October 12, 2006 by sirguessalot

[sirguessalot]

yeah, Abi

i hear ya about the lifelong struggle in terms of healthy communication of actual shared meaning

tiz the common heart of all relationship, it seems

requires certain radical levels of clarity

and i am finding that there are very potent and sophisticated arts and schools

of practicing notions such as 'open inquiry'

like learning new tongues, as scripture says, but using the languages we already know

because it not about the actual words, per se

but how the words are being used

and how we are actually being with each other when we use them

interfaith dialogue

conflict resolution

the great peacemakers of history

etc...

all benefit from increasing our capacity to find a genuine shared interior space

via higher levels of dialogue and discourse

and when 'we mutually understand how we understand each other'

we will find ourselves in an amazing 'place'

though it is not a very common place to find ourselves in

which is why i think we cherish real friendships so much

i have seen varieties of these arts of 'open inquiry' in everything from catholics to quakers to hopi to jews to sufis to buddhists to psychologists to druids to role-playing gamers and kids

such higher orders of human speech are quite ordinary, really

and have been around since the beginning

which is what makes them "divine"

imo

but when the majority has somehow come to believe

that no such higher dialogue is possible

let alone beneficial to them

well...it dont take a rocket scientist to figure out what happens next

just read the news these days, i guess

Edited October 13, 2006 by sirguessalot

[dancing]

if we could latch on to one speck of openness

and communication that agrees in our minds

then this is the beginning of a birth of toungues that is much needed

and much wanted as we live with millions yet are quite alone

if that could happen and not let the 'devil' take it out of our minds

then truly we are sowing in good ground

and right wrong will come to pass

it's the honest heart, the loving heart

that wants to give and see and yes take with out taking

give without really giving anything receive that which is already ours

-ours-

it takes more then one in this life and i do believe the next to have this oneness

these scattered hearts, thoughts, emotions, feelings

all held in our hands as well as others

why can't we just all get along-

so they say

dream on. there is more to it then getting along

a much greater balance of love, communication, giving, taking

to view many views is a gift

to see from anothers perspective without getting upset is witnessing in a way-a great way

one that has been practiced from the first Word

Edited October 13, 2006 by dancing

[sirguessalot]

hm

i could be wrong

but ya know...something pleasantly strange in do see in all that, Clay

is how there seems to be almost NO figures of speech, flowery language, metaphors or poetry

in what you just wrote

i see nothing unscriptural

blasphemous

or ungodly

really

nothing Jesus would condemn

should he be posting here

in fact

its almost got a fundamentalist nature in its straight-talkingly-truthfulishly-literalismicality-ness

yet naively childish and mythic in its hopeful expectations of how the universe can really work

which is both hot

and cool

imho

:blink:

to view many views is a gift

to see from anothers perspective without getting upset is witnessing in a way-a great way

sometimes i wonder

if perhaps the old saying is even more true, that "in my father's house are many mansions"

though also having to do with how we can and do actually inhabit each other

as well as a lot of other things

in many many ways

and as beings, there is a sense of us that is so expressive

as to extend far beyond our bodily self

one that overlaps and encompasses each other

and then on until the ends of the universe

...

of course...all this is mostly an expression of possibility

because consensus reality most often seems to be quite a different place altogether

....sometimes

Edited October 13, 2006 by sirguessalot

[sirguessalot]

a few thoughts on contemplative history of various christianities...

some strange resemblances between what i have learned of and from those schools of 'practicing silence,' (such as the quakers) and the infamous pentecostal account, is how they actually basically practiced the most curious and strange thing...which typically went like this...

shut up

sit down

and dont go to sleep

pray only silently to yourself

(which, it sems, could be anything from speaking random sounds that you feel

or repeating the same syllable or song or wise saying over and over again)

and do this for many hours a day

together (or alone...if you have to)

or if you are a hardcore practitioner

follow a wise teacher of such things

and do this for periods like nine full days

(such as that one account)

...man oh man...i dont know about you...but this sounds like pretty extreme stuff, to me....

and so simple things like your own breathing

your own heartbeat

your own thoughts

your own feelings

and your own dreams

become of paramount importance

and worth paying close attention to

(though you really cant help it, because that is all that you have to work with in such a state, anyway...which is kind of the point)

and of course, there are a thousand other elements that can be and have been added to this kind of thing

just as there are and have been a million recipes for bread

or wine

in other words...we are free to find ways to celebrate and decorate such an act

partially because, i'm sure, one can imagine how quickly one might become terrifyingly bored

but the idea for folks like that

was to do this kind of thing as often as possible

to the degree that one is are finally able to maintain that curious new perspective

even while we are out-and-about in the world

and perhaps it is not hard for one to imagine

how this becomes a most critically valuable skill

if one is trying to fix, or help or heal or teach anyone else, including ourself

(which are among the most common of human tendencies, it seems...a bunch of helpers from the get-go, by nature)

which is perhaps why this school of first century healers

were so deeply devoted to such a path

as to consider it quite the blistering ordeal

or why certain groups of pioneering american christian thinkers

saw the value of practicing being silent together for longer than a mere minute

prior to even opening their mouths when in a circle of wise elders

and so something strange and troubling (and often truly sad-making)

is how us average modern can only be still for 15 minutes or less

yet continue along in this chronic sort of search-and-rescue-and-repair-and-control mode

makes ya wanna say "do me a favor and stop doing me favors," ya know?

and im sure its not hard to imagine how horrific that might beging to look

if it got out of control for too many generations in a row

....

ok so...maybe this kind of thing sounds too familiar...

you know..."you guys all go and be in silent prayer for many days before you speak of this stuff

and dont forget to pay attention to your breathe and your hearts

yada yada yada

and i guarantee that you will meet me via the air some day very soon"

...and other such things

...

oh yeah...and one of our typically favorite parts of all....

..."there really ARE NOT HARD RULES about this kind of thing

except the laws of love, of course"

Edited October 13, 2006 by sirguessalot

[dancing]

And could such a chance meeting of thought

(though i don't believe in chance as un foreseen)

Be an actualoccurence that can, has and will happen and continue to happen

either by thinking the same thoughts

either spiritual or otherwise-if their is anotherwise

could this be would could sprout into a fellowship with God and Hios son

via ourselves, made in the image of God

a mirror of the Living Universe inside

for no 'man' can see God and live

So what must see God

Something must die-transform, change into that which is pure

for the blessed are the pure in heart for they shall SEE God

Did Jesus lie

Can we be pure in heart

Sure,

many are mislead,

but there is no mistaking the Word of Life

LIVING IN YOUR FLESH

not a book or preacher or trickery with words

but something that really happens as it did with Jesus

as it did with Peter and the eleven and the about three thousand

as it it did with Paul

Did it stop there

Did the Word of Life turn into a book

or living epistles of the HEART

Hidden Wholeness

the Hidden man of the Heart

the Son of Man

more diverse then ever imagined or can be

the Glory that shall be revealed in us

God how i love that verse

does it stop after we put off this flesh or does it continue to be revealed

un stoppable, un hindered by that which we see with our eyes and hear with our ears

but new ears and new eyes

Could this possibly be done Now?

To see with new eyes and hear with new ears

that which has been is now and will be forever

Jesus thought so....

Yes a mighty big claim

but it starts with a word and grows into 2 3 and more

The most underestamated part of man

Christ

[dancing]

my hope is that this chapter offers insight into ways of being

that might not only help us heal from the negatives of our TWI experience

but might also help us build and deepen whatever good we experienced there

and not only to help us find better ways of being with each other in this venue

but especially helping us find better ways of being with our selves together

i do look forward to comments, reflections, responses, reactions, experiences...etc

I hope with you and even when we may be in different thoughts,

Or anyone else, somehow it all comes together eventually....

and separates again yet truly there is One Lord

I believe it...seen it....live by it....

[sirguessalot]

can this be done now?

i have a sense that this was asked in a wide open way

almost as if you were asking the space inside of a circle

but it is such a timely question for me

because i am actually going on a silent retreat for 3 days-and-nights very soon

one that is adapted from some Christian stuff even older than the quakers

that also draws from the work of Rumi

so...i just want to say yes, to that

and out here in the open, if i may

before i have to pull myself away from this reflective ride we are on

and get back to work

this week has been so crazy

that i am way behind

(tho i may go play in chat a bit...if i can try not to put too many folks to sleep)

:ph34r:

Edited October 13, 2006 by sirguessalot

[dancing]

i have a sense that this was asked in a wide open way

almost as if you were asking the space inside of a circle

thanks for that

easy to get narrow minded

when there are so many minds

[dancing]

i miss you already todd

i wish i'd been up to seeing you

love always and forever

clay

[templelady]

There are many parts of Quakerism that I find highly spiritually motivating

One of My favorite books if "The Christian's Secret of A Happy Life" by Hannah Whitall Smith

She was a Quaker that wrote the original in the 1800's it has been reprinted with some of the more unfamiliar references updated, Such as railway car travel, calling cards etc that she uses in her illustrations--but the heart of it remains untouched. I have had a copy near to hand for over 10 years--I highly recommend it --

It does not promote Quakerism or any other Christian sect just down to earth practical day to day living advice

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Todd

God loves us all my dear friend

That sounds like a great book my dear friend

The Way taught a little about being whole in a way a being of body, soul, and spirit would be whole but a being of body and soul only would not be whole

But I must asked when is the body whole?

I say at its purest state maybe

But I must asked when is the soul whole?

I say when what breath in is in the purest state maybe

But I must asked when is the spirit whole?

I say when in its new body maybe

Because all I have is more questions I can not give a great answers to any of my questions

but I enjoy getting more in touch with my body knowing its every need

I enjoy getting more in touch with my soul knowing its every need the very image of Flesh

I enjoy getting more in touch with my spirit knowing its every need the very image of God

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[sirguessalot]

very cool...thanks Clay, TL and Roy and everyone for all that

...It does not promote Quakerism or any other Christian sect just down to earth practical day to day living advice

yeah

here are some quotes from that article on the quakers i find very refreshing and appealing

Unlike other groups that emerged within Christianity, the Religious Society of Friends has tended toward little hierarchical structure, and no creeds.

The various branches have widely divergent beliefs and practices, but the central concept to many Friends may be the "Inner Light" or "that of God within" each of us. Accordingly, individual Quakers may develop individual religious beliefs arising from individual conscience and revelation coming from "God within"; further, Quakers are obliged to live by such individual religious beliefs and inner revelations.

Quaker mysticism includes a strong emphasis on its outwardly-directed witness. Rather than seeking withdrawal from the world, the Quaker mystic translates his or her mysticism into action. Action, in turn, leads to greater spiritual understanding — both by individuals and by the Meeting as a whole.

Decision making among Friends

Business decisions on a local level are conducted at a monthly "Meeting for Worship with a concern for business", or simply "business meeting". A business meeting is a form of worship, and all decisions are reached so that they are consistent with the guidance of the Spirit.

Instead of voting, the meeting for business attempts to gain a sense of God's will for the community. Each member of the meeting is expected to listen to that of God within themselves and, if led, to contribute it to the group for reflection and consideration. Each member listens to others' contributions carefully, in an attitude of seeking Truth rather than of attempting to prevail or to debate.

A decision is reached when the meeting as a whole feels that the "way forward" has been discerned (also called "coming to unity"). Occasionally, some members of the Meeting will "stand aside" on an issue, meaning that these members do not share in the general sense of the meeting but are willing to allow the group to move forward.

Many Quakers describe the search for unity as the gathering of believers who "wait upon the Lord" to discover God's will. When seeking unity, Friends are not attempting to seek a position with which everyone is willing to live (as is often the case in consensual models) but in determining God's will. It is assumed that if everyone is listening to God's Spirit, everyone will hear similar messages and the way forward will become clear, for God's will is that the meeting should be united.

The business conducted "in the manner of Friends" can seem time-consuming and impractical. The process surely can be frustrating and slow yet at its best it works remarkably well, allowing the group to come to decisions even around the most difficult mattters. By the time a decision is recognized, the important issues have been worked out and the group supports the decision. There is no "losing" side, no one will benefit if problems emerge in implementing the decision. Participants who have come to trust the process, confident that there will be enough time and interest to hear each important concern are unlikely to bring up the topic time and time again. It is much less likely that participants will suffer hurt as a result of the decision making. It is far less likely that additional meetings will be needed later to "fix" the original decision.

Many who are unaware of the focus of Friends on "unity, not unanimity" express doubts as to whether this process of decision making can work in a large group. Many yearly meetings, however, have successfully employed this practice for years. Some Quaker-related organizations, such as Haverford College in Philadelphia, utilize traditional Quaker form practices of governance.

Coming to decisions by the sense of the meeting has been a centerpiece of the Religious Society of Friends for over 350 years, at times seeing them through extremely difficult decisions. Quaker-style decision making has been adapted for use in secular settings in recent years (see Consensus decision-making).

[VeganXTC]

I get an e-magazine, called "Peaceable Table" which is written for "Quakers and Other People of Faith. " Last months issue contained an article that I feel might add to the topic. The complete article can be found here: http://www.vegetarianfriends.net/issue24.html

The Inner Home

The most important refuge we can find, the indispensible source of life and of the universal compassion we are called to incarnate, must be within. A psalm attributed to Moses, who was born in exile and never set foot in the promised land, begins with the line "Lord, you have been our home throughout all generations" (Ps. 90:1). Still another psalm, perhaps by an exile who had once thought God dwelt only in one locality, celebrates a God who is found wherever she or he may set foot: ""If I ascend to heaven, thou art there; / If I make my bed in Sheol, lo, thou art there!" (Ps. 139:8). We can only live with grace in exile, and faithfully fulfil our prophetic calling, by turning daily, even hourly, to this inner Home, this Beloved. It is after all this Source of Love who has called and inspired us to speak and enact Her/His love and liberation for all: for these, the least of all our brothers and sisters, and for the recalcitrant who still insist on killing and eating them.

—Gracia Fay Ellwood

I've never been on a retreat, so forgive me. Do I say, have fun? Learn lots? Whatever, I do wish you well.

[Bramble]

Hidden wholeness...I was thinking about something that might be the opposite...hidden brokenness. When I was in TWI, there were always things that jarred me--the separation from earthy family was one. I could never whole heartedly embrace it. There were several others...but I renewed my mind and told myself that I believed it...

Deep inside though there was a jarring or discord, something uncomfortable. Being a good wafer I ignored it--but later after i left, those things were the first doctrines of TWI to go!