Since the Merry Season is approaching... ;)

[GarthP2000]

ooooo nice try, Templelady, nice try.

.... except that the manger scene and other figures of Christ's birth are with a specific religious purpose. But wreaths, Christmas trees, mistletoes, etc., do not have a specific religious purpose in mind. Ie., nobody has converted to pagan Greco-Roman mythology due to said images. They are simply cultural images.

The Christian images however, are often noted as conveying a specific religious message. One of Christ coming to save humanity from their sins. A specific religious message is being conveyed here. And many times people complain that "Jesus is the reason for the season". Nobody is going "Bacchus or Zeus or Saturn is the reason for the season". And even with the Winter Solstice holiday motif, it was celebrating a natural event; the winter solstice, where the return of longer days is now ahead, and the end of long winter nights and the hope of spring being not far off. But you don't see the government putting up Saturn (or any other pagan god) as a religious image for people to religiously think about.

No matter how you slice it, there IS no governmental or organizational attempt to prohibit the Christian celebration of Christmas, no matter how insistent you want to keep holding on to that idea. ..... It is a 'persecution' that is largely hype. Because if the government or anyone else was actually trying to stop you from celebrating or saying Merry Christmas, ... it would be a helluva lot more obvious.

... why, it would be just like back in Puritan New England, where celebrating Christmas was outlawed. By fellow Christians! <_<

How's that for clearing up any confusion which you evidently have about this so-called hypocrisy, hmmm?

[dmiller]

There's no discussion *available* if he is in the mix.

Sorry Garth -- but am just stating the obvious (to most of us) here.

Dave,

Really? Do tell? ... Then please explain to me why you're still discussing, hmmmm? Or aren't you aware of your fingers typing on the keyboard when you respond? <_<

But in all seriousness Dave, arguments like that are comparable to a little kid blurting out "So you think that your daddy is better than my daddy!" Yes, that is how I see it.

Believe it or not, there is *nowhere* in any of my posts where I am saying that there is no discussion available or allowed, and when you get off your high horse, ... you know it. This is an open forum, and nobody is prohibiting you from responding. (remember your fingers typing away on the keyboard?) Oh, and by the way, you post with *just as much passion and challenge as I do* in many of your posts, and you know it, so spare me the "You just don't want other people to say anything" song-and-dance, because I have never communicated such, and no "well it seems like it" argument is good enough to prove otherwise.

You are college (or equivalent) educated adult. I would expect more intelligent responses than that from you. If what I am saying is wrong, then show it clearly. Ron's above post was a classic example of a better attempt than yours. I am disagreeing with him on specific points, and state why. ... And neither of us is going "There is no discussion available" to the other here. ... You notice that? :unsure:

And by the way, you also notice that my initial post here was with a humorous anecdote? It was others that took it more seriously and made an argument out of it. ... Right? <_<

Ok. You're right, I'm wrong.

God bless, and have a Merry Christmas!

Edited December 5, 2006 by dmiller

[templelady]

But wreaths, Christmas trees, mistletoe's, etc., do not have a specific religious purpose in mind.

I would venture to say that my Wicca friends would disagree with this

Ie., nobody has converted to pagan Greco-Roman mythology due to said images. They are simply cultural images.

Two questions How do you know no one has converted to paganism by viewing these images?

Who are you aware of that has converted to Christianity by viewing a Creche??

These kind of Blanket statements with no factual basis hardly support your arguments

No matter how you slice it, there IS no governmental or organizational attempt to prohibit the Christian celebration of Christmas,

Only because you and those who agree with you haven't succeeded in having it prohibited

no matter how insistent you want to keep holding on to that idea. .....

Never said Christmas was banned by the government--where do you get these ideas??

Edited December 5, 2006 by templelady

[GarthP2000]

Only because you and those who agree with you haven't succeeded in having it prohibited

Talk about your blanket (and quite presumptuous) statements. <_<

And with that, I think I will withdraw from this particular argument, as it is evident that we're gonna go 'round and round with no end in sight, neither one of us convincing the other.

So I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

[templelady]

And Happy Holidays and A Joyous Winter Solstice to You

As Well As

Happy Hanukkah

Happy Ramadan

Happy Kwanzaa

Merry Christmas

And If you fall in none of the above categories

Happy December

[Bramble]

Don't forget Yule! I don't actually know a pagan that celebrates the Winter Solstice( not that I have a huge network of pagan friends), though some do Mother's Night on the solstice. The ones I know practice Yule. Some pagans think Santa is a new form of Odin, others a form of Thor...they both point to legends.

I thought this was a interesting blog post--YMMV.

I don't see any point in being upset about celebration times, especially one that is meant to be a time of warmth, generosity, thankfulness etc.

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_colum...ing_light_.html

[NotMatilda]

What kind of cretin could ever forget Yul? He ruled Siam so well...

[Ron G.]

NotMatilda sez...

"What kind of cretin could ever forget Yul? He ruled Siam so well..."

Ron G. muses...

ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA

Are you SURE you're not Matilda?