I guess I don't understand. The trailer I watched of the film definately shows the tragedy of violence and death etc. but I fail to see how that connects to our current daily walk of dealing with our 'natural' death.
Or is it only about tragic, violent death?
As helping professionals working with hospice, for example, we are more about accepting ones passing, dealing with things that will or might happen during this time and helping to facilitate a gentle move into the actual death process.
Does this film not contradict that or is it suggesting that the two are somehow related?
As with most film trailers, I think it really only scratches the surface of a film that only scratches the surface of a very broad topic (very well, i would add). But it does present more detailed connections between individual and societal views on death, and how they manifest in both individual and societal behaviour. The filmmakers explain how the greater human capacity to conceptualize detailed narratives for life after death has a lot do to with why most of this mass violence is done in the name of religions (most of which, ironically, were founded on principles of peace, non-violence, friendship, service, and divine surrender). In a sense...our greater capacity for abstract thinking is a mixed blessing, and the more it develops...the more problems it can create. Our capacity to delude ourselves and mistake our beliefs for reality evolves. Which then gets worse when we act on them (such as flying planes into buildings for revenge and heavely virgins...for example).
And so when our worldviews are threatened, we often react as if we are being bodily threatened, mistaking our views for who we really are. We "flinch" at challenges to our beliefs the same way we flinch at being poked with a stick. Visions of what hell might be like drive us to do the craziest things in the name of what we perceive heaven wants us to do.
And given that the last century of violence has produced a body count that far outnumbers any other century in human history, i think the intentional killing of each other is perhaps the most glaring example of the mass existential crisis we are in.
And too, now i am feeling like i should have reviewed the film one more time before posting this...its been a few months.
But from what I recall, the film does not get into hospice and such. Or the specific tools and methods for caregiving on that level.
Though i have come to understand how mass violence and individual dying are related in all stages of life's transitions (given that civilizations are made up of individuals who die)
For example: in general, we've stopped teaching our young boys how to fail with grace, and so we've got a world of greedy vengeful men who are largely unable to process grief.
And the same processes, tools and principles used in assisting the dying are highly useful in any kind of radical transition...such as when our worldviews are shattered, or grief and loss...even sudden success.
In a sense, learning how to die helps us with "change management" on all other levels.
We are able to change our views of what is good, true and beautiful as we get new information, because we are comfortable with "dying" from one worldview to another.
But when we attempt to flee from death or otherwise hide it and deny it...we cut ourselves off from the greatest teacher of all life's transformations.
well...i hope that at least comes close to answering your questions. I'm open to further inquiry, of course.
Yeah, that fills in some of the blanks, thanks. As a psych student, being a 'change agent' is a concept I'm familiar with and hopeful to practice.
Soon. Maybe.
Hospice is an interest since I cared for my maternal grandmother until her death in 2000 with Hospice so very involved. I hope to perhaps get the opportunity to do an internship with Hospice to see if I fit.
Of course with my husbands sudden and unexpected death while we were in TWI, the emotions were so much differant and much more challenging in that the after care didn't come until I understood, more than a year later, that Hospice also offers grief counseling and I took advantage of that for the 12 months they provided me.
Then I took two classes on Death and Dying and I was hooked on the process of 'how can I better facilitate in that transition'.
That, I suppose, is my brief introduction of my involvement and interest in this subject.
Save for my youngest daughter's writing of a book for kids when we couldn't find a kid friendly one about dealing with death of a parent. Her book is simple and uses kids words and says it straight. That peeked my interest in being a helper with kids dealing with death and dying when she convinced me that it doesn't have to be scary and left without understanding. It doesn't have to be more questions than answers, for kids or grownups.
thanks, Shell...for filling in a few blanks on your end, too, with brief story of your intro to the subject,
and i'd really love to hear more about your daughter's book...either here or elsewhere.
cuz strange enough...i now also manage a thriving bookstore that provides resources around the art of dying and end-of-life history and spirituallity.
also, a dear friend and teacher of mine who has been living with cancer for a number of years now has also run a grief camp for kids.
another strange also...is how the groundbreaking hospice education series i am involved with is primarily based in Oregon and Ohio
sheesh...too many synchros happening here, it seems
:blink:
anyway, from a general cultural anthropological standpoint, it seems ever clearer that our civilization has never been so allergic to the topic of dying as has been for the past century or so
...and oddly enough, its something both the modern sciences and modern religions seem to have in common, in spite of the war-of-the-worldviews being waged
this is a hard thing to say, imo
though i think it needs to be said
which is why i think this documentary is so timely
another little known historical note around our flight from death that ive mentioned around here before
...for about 500 years across Europe...jews, muslims and christians worked together to create a network of hospices and places of healing and renewal
mostly centered around southern Spain and the Iberian peninsula
and 1492 was the year it all came to a bloody end
(truly another holocaust event, which has mostly been forgotten to the western mind)
and not only have we never regained such a degree of interfaith cooperation and collaboration among the Abrahamic religions
but our hospitals have never regained the quality of attention to the end of life issue as they had established in those days
and what is really telling, is how the end-of-life issues so deeply united them for a time, and gave them an important reason to put down silly dogmatic differences
(which reminds me of the work of a certain jewish kid and his friends, and those who were said to have carried on his kind of work)
so...at least we know it has worked before (yes, jews, muslims and christians talking the same "language")
and thankfully, it seems it is actually trying to happen again in a post-post modern context
From my own personal experience, I have no doubt in my mind that when one can overcome the flight from death, then one can also overcome the fight to the death. Fight or flight is not necessary. But most humans don't get that...me often being the worst at comprehension.
:) I shall continue to follow your work and stay in touch, thanks.
It occurs to me, also, with the end of life coming so much later than it used to we'd better come up with the monies and the programs, like Hospice, to serve that community.
And with Hospice being so young, really, it's got so much room for growth.
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Shellon
Hi Todd
I guess I don't understand. The trailer I watched of the film definately shows the tragedy of violence and death etc. but I fail to see how that connects to our current daily walk of dealing with our 'natural' death.
Or is it only about tragic, violent death?
As helping professionals working with hospice, for example, we are more about accepting ones passing, dealing with things that will or might happen during this time and helping to facilitate a gentle move into the actual death process.
Does this film not contradict that or is it suggesting that the two are somehow related?
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sirguessalot
Hi Shell. Thanks for jumping in.
As with most film trailers, I think it really only scratches the surface of a film that only scratches the surface of a very broad topic (very well, i would add). But it does present more detailed connections between individual and societal views on death, and how they manifest in both individual and societal behaviour. The filmmakers explain how the greater human capacity to conceptualize detailed narratives for life after death has a lot do to with why most of this mass violence is done in the name of religions (most of which, ironically, were founded on principles of peace, non-violence, friendship, service, and divine surrender). In a sense...our greater capacity for abstract thinking is a mixed blessing, and the more it develops...the more problems it can create. Our capacity to delude ourselves and mistake our beliefs for reality evolves. Which then gets worse when we act on them (such as flying planes into buildings for revenge and heavely virgins...for example).
And so when our worldviews are threatened, we often react as if we are being bodily threatened, mistaking our views for who we really are. We "flinch" at challenges to our beliefs the same way we flinch at being poked with a stick. Visions of what hell might be like drive us to do the craziest things in the name of what we perceive heaven wants us to do.
And given that the last century of violence has produced a body count that far outnumbers any other century in human history, i think the intentional killing of each other is perhaps the most glaring example of the mass existential crisis we are in.
And too, now i am feeling like i should have reviewed the film one more time before posting this...its been a few months.
But from what I recall, the film does not get into hospice and such. Or the specific tools and methods for caregiving on that level.
Though i have come to understand how mass violence and individual dying are related in all stages of life's transitions (given that civilizations are made up of individuals who die)
For example: in general, we've stopped teaching our young boys how to fail with grace, and so we've got a world of greedy vengeful men who are largely unable to process grief.
And the same processes, tools and principles used in assisting the dying are highly useful in any kind of radical transition...such as when our worldviews are shattered, or grief and loss...even sudden success.
In a sense, learning how to die helps us with "change management" on all other levels.
We are able to change our views of what is good, true and beautiful as we get new information, because we are comfortable with "dying" from one worldview to another.
But when we attempt to flee from death or otherwise hide it and deny it...we cut ourselves off from the greatest teacher of all life's transformations.
well...i hope that at least comes close to answering your questions. I'm open to further inquiry, of course.
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Shellon
Yeah, that fills in some of the blanks, thanks. As a psych student, being a 'change agent' is a concept I'm familiar with and hopeful to practice.
Soon. Maybe.
Hospice is an interest since I cared for my maternal grandmother until her death in 2000 with Hospice so very involved. I hope to perhaps get the opportunity to do an internship with Hospice to see if I fit.
Of course with my husbands sudden and unexpected death while we were in TWI, the emotions were so much differant and much more challenging in that the after care didn't come until I understood, more than a year later, that Hospice also offers grief counseling and I took advantage of that for the 12 months they provided me.
Then I took two classes on Death and Dying and I was hooked on the process of 'how can I better facilitate in that transition'.
That, I suppose, is my brief introduction of my involvement and interest in this subject.
Save for my youngest daughter's writing of a book for kids when we couldn't find a kid friendly one about dealing with death of a parent. Her book is simple and uses kids words and says it straight. That peeked my interest in being a helper with kids dealing with death and dying when she convinced me that it doesn't have to be scary and left without understanding. It doesn't have to be more questions than answers, for kids or grownups.
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sirguessalot
thanks, Shell...for filling in a few blanks on your end, too, with brief story of your intro to the subject,
and i'd really love to hear more about your daughter's book...either here or elsewhere.
cuz strange enough...i now also manage a thriving bookstore that provides resources around the art of dying and end-of-life history and spirituallity.
also, a dear friend and teacher of mine who has been living with cancer for a number of years now has also run a grief camp for kids.
another strange also...is how the groundbreaking hospice education series i am involved with is primarily based in Oregon and Ohio
sheesh...too many synchros happening here, it seems
:blink:
anyway, from a general cultural anthropological standpoint, it seems ever clearer that our civilization has never been so allergic to the topic of dying as has been for the past century or so
...and oddly enough, its something both the modern sciences and modern religions seem to have in common, in spite of the war-of-the-worldviews being waged
this is a hard thing to say, imo
though i think it needs to be said
which is why i think this documentary is so timely
another little known historical note around our flight from death that ive mentioned around here before
...for about 500 years across Europe...jews, muslims and christians worked together to create a network of hospices and places of healing and renewal
mostly centered around southern Spain and the Iberian peninsula
and 1492 was the year it all came to a bloody end
(truly another holocaust event, which has mostly been forgotten to the western mind)
and not only have we never regained such a degree of interfaith cooperation and collaboration among the Abrahamic religions
but our hospitals have never regained the quality of attention to the end of life issue as they had established in those days
and what is really telling, is how the end-of-life issues so deeply united them for a time, and gave them an important reason to put down silly dogmatic differences
(which reminds me of the work of a certain jewish kid and his friends, and those who were said to have carried on his kind of work)
so...at least we know it has worked before (yes, jews, muslims and christians talking the same "language")
and thankfully, it seems it is actually trying to happen again in a post-post modern context
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CoolWaters
From my own personal experience, I have no doubt in my mind that when one can overcome the flight from death, then one can also overcome the fight to the death. Fight or flight is not necessary. But most humans don't get that...me often being the worst at comprehension.
Excellent topic!
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Shellon
:) I shall continue to follow your work and stay in touch, thanks.
It occurs to me, also, with the end of life coming so much later than it used to we'd better come up with the monies and the programs, like Hospice, to serve that community.
And with Hospice being so young, really, it's got so much room for growth.
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