More evidence re: Calvin's 'dark side' ;)

[laleo]

Thanks, Cynic. I'll take a look.

Whatever else can be said about Calvin, some of his stuff reads like poetry.

quote:

For if heaven is our country, what is earth but a place of exile! If the departure out of the world is an entrance into life, what is the world but a sepulchre? What is a continuance in it but an absorption in death? If deliverance from the body is an introduction into complete liberty, what is the body but a prison? Therefore, if the terrestrial life be compared with the celestial, it should undoubtedly be despised and accounted of no value.

I would have added some line breaks, but otherwise, he's incorporating a lot of poetic techniques. Come to think of it, he did author some hymns. Maybe that's already been set to music.

[Tzaia]

The bloodshed of Christian against Christian can be traced back to the movement away from Jewish based Christianity to Gentile based Christianity.

The factions were there from the time Peter recognized that gentiles could receive h.s. However they felt about each other personally was secondary to how everyone outside Christianity felt about them.

Had Christianity remained Jewish based, the persecution against the Christians would have remained sufficient for them to continue to bond in self preservation as the Jews had always faced persecution due to their strict adherence to the one God concept.

Once Christianity moved away from strict monotheism the strict monotheists were again persecuted, whether they be a part of Christian strict monotheists, Jews, or Islamics.

I have no doubt in my mind that Calvin was sincere. It doesn't make him any less wrong or any less a murderer. He had a man (or many men) murdered for the "crime" of being a strict monotheist. He deliberately chose to see that a man's life was ended because of doctrine. There is nothing in the new covenant scriptures that supports killing over doctrinal differences and for that he will be judged and I believe he will be judged more harshly because he should have known better. Perhaps he will be one that Jesus spoke about who cries out, "Lord, Lord." but who does not know the Lord. We can see in retrospect that his actions clearly were not godly, even with all his knowledge of scripture.

I'm not so sure that it's so important what you know as it is important what you do with what you know.

Calvin's portrayal of God is one of mercy, but Jesus himself said there will be harsh judgement amongst the saved to the point where they might wish they hadn't been. Did Calvin ever repent of the sin of having Servetus murdered? I don't know, but if he didn't, then he will not have a pleasant experience at the judgement.

Tzaia

[TheEvan]

Tzaia, just because Servetus himself was persecuted for being unitarian doesn't make it a yard stick for receiving persecution. Persecution happens because men are evil. More trinitarians have been on the receiving end of persecution than unitarians. By far. And for no other reason that there have always been far more of them.

[def59]

Tzaia,

Christianity never moved away from monotheism. There is only one God. The church's understanding of the Godhead became more fully developed.

Persecution has been a part of the faith since Jews first started killing Christians. Then the Romans got involved and eventually other Christians (so-called at least).

[Tzaia]

You aren't reading what I wrote. I never mentioned persecution against Christians. I wrote specifically regarding Christian vs Christian persecution.

A better understanding of the "godhead"? Coming from people who for generations had no understanding of monotheism? By the time Christianity shifted from Jerusalem to Rome, it was a mere shell of what it started out to be. It hadn't grown, it had morphed.

The only way "Christianity" was accepted by non-jews was to take out the jew, which Paul was more than willing to do. Peter did it, but he had a harder time doing it.