I was referring to Philippians 2, just didn't have the time to stop and look it up.
Hey, do you type all that stuff or do you copy it from somewhere? Whew!!
It is a good point, huh? Consider this:
Our temptation today is to make Jesus a savior we can be comfortable with.
We were studying Matthew 3 and how John the Baptist went after the Pharisees, quoting their bloodline, etc. We can quote whoever we want, say whatever we want, believe what we want. But, if we really repent our lives will bear fruit. We repent unto something. That something is, or should be, to live as Christ lived. In Chapter 11 of Matthew, John the Baptist actually sends two of his men to ask Jesus if he really is the one who was to come. Why? Because he wasn't the savior they expected. They expected a political leader, a king, someone to restore the kingdom to Israel. They just weren't comfortable with a man who spent the majority of his time with the sick, blind, lame, etc., all of whom were considered sinners. They were considered lame because they sinned and therefore God took His protection away from them. Remember the account where Jesus healed the man born blind and they asked who sinned? Him or his parents? That's why they thought he was blind--because of sin. Silly, huh? How could a newborn sin. So, it had to be his parents. But, they wouldn't own up to it. Why? They'd be downcast. That's who Jesus hung with. The downcast. The dregs of society. At least today we know we are ALL sinners. Sickness or not.
We can't be comfortable if we're in pain, suffering, etc. But let's face it. There's all kinds of pain. You never know who you are standing next to and who you can help by living the love of God. There's broken legs and broken hearts. Things we see and things we don't see.
Hey Clay. Like you, I just read thru this tread and although I mean no disrespect to anyone who's posted, I am seeing the same thing. Plenty of Bible verses being put out, but where is the knowledge gained from someone who's been there and can speak from experience. Verses are nice, yes, but I wanna hear what God has done to help people thru their pain along with them.
ChattyKathy's post is the only one that spoke to me. She spoke from experience and personal knowledge. I will remember her words always and could feel her family's and her own love and trust for/in God. Her sister's last days weren't spend in a drug induced haze, they were spent without pain, so her last memories on this earth were painless ones that she spent with her loved ones. THAT shows me the love God has for us and what he can do for us physically. He gave her sister the peace that comes before death and gave her the time she needed with her family to say goodbye.
Your understanding of what I was saying about my family has taken me aback. I've had to sit here and read your post a bit before I could figure out how to reply. You provided a view of my sister and what she had in a way that would have made her instantly love you. You've a great heart. It's been my loss to have just met you.
I know when my pain gets so bad I scream out loud, long and hard, I will call out to God and He never fails to comfort me until it passes. It doesn't matter if it passes on it's own or from a pain pill I take, He is there with me and I know I will make it.
I was born with Crohn's Disease. It passed down thru my bloodline. I can't say it's due to anything I did or didn't do or God allowed it to bring me closer to Him. It's just a part of who I am and I deal with it as best I can. Could I do as well as I do without God? NEVER! He is what gives me the strength to get thru each day and I swear some days when I get really bad, I can almost feel Him holding me in His arms to comfort me. I can hear His sweet voice telling me to hang in there when I feel like giving up.
I began to pray for you immediately when I read what you suffer with.
On the rare Sundays when I feel up to going to church, I have no fear of anyone asking me where I've been. Instead I get hugged by everyone and told how happy they are to see I am feeling up to going out of the house. Our retired Pastor and his wife are usually the first to come to me .. they not only understand my condition, the Pastor and their sons all have Crohn's too. I often wonder what the odds are of someone joining a church with a ready made support system for people with Crohn's Disease. LOL. I have an idea they would be very high.
Guess I have quite a few experiences I could post about regarding my pain and reaching out to God for strength and support. I also realize this is the doctrinial area and am not sure it's the right place. I was just hoping to find some more personal stories here, like Howard posted on the Miracles thread. Reading his words helped me more than he will ever know. I would love to hear from any other pain patients that post here, if they feel like sharing their stories.
Without the benefit of seeing the living of it the doctrine can become dust covered. Thank you for sharing in this I think most appropriate manner.
are two good sites. The blue letter bible has greek as well, linked to strong's word numbers and has a scanned copy of Thayer's lexicon, as well (of course you have to keep in mind Thayer's theological perspective when reading it).
It is a good point, huh? Consider this:
Our temptation today is to make Jesus a savior we can be comfortable with.
We were studying Matthew 3 and how John the Baptist went after the Pharisees, quoting their bloodline, etc. We can quote whoever we want, say whatever we want, believe what we want. But, if we really repent our lives will bear fruit. We repent unto something. That something is, or should be, to live as Christ lived. In Chapter 11 of Matthew, John the Baptist actually sends two of his men to ask Jesus if he really is the one who was to come. Why? Because he wasn't the savior they expected. They expected a political leader, a king, someone to restore the kingdom to Israel. They just weren't comfortable with a man who spent the majority of his time with the sick, blind, lame, etc., all of whom were considered sinners. They were considered lame because they sinned and therefore God took His protection away from them. Remember the account where Jesus healed the man born blind and they asked who sinned? Him or his parents? That's why they thought he was blind--because of sin. Silly, huh? How could a newborn sin. So, it had to be his parents. But, they wouldn't own up to it. Why? They'd be downcast. That's who Jesus hung with. The downcast. The dregs of society. At least today we know we are ALL sinners. Sickness or not.
We can't be comfortable if we're in pain, suffering, etc. But let's face it. There's all kinds of pain. You never know who you are standing next to and who you can help by living the love of God. There's broken legs and broken hearts. Things we see and things we don't see.
:blink:
A profound point that you make above. And that, in truth, is the reason why I started studying this subject.
There are a lot of people with a tremendous amount of suffering in their lives (be it physical, psychological, social, or whatever). I've seen examples of it all the time in numerous people; in fact, I have to live with it all the time...my wife has a degenerative spine. Its something we've lived with for the past 15 years. She's had three surgeries on it so far and is scheduled with her third surgery on her neck on Oct. 17th. Immediately following, she will be going to another doctor to evaluate her for a possible second surgery on her thoractic spine, surgery on her lumbar spine, and possibly surgery on her hip (arthritis). She's not in a wheelchair (yet), but has gone from hobbling to a cane to a walker in little more than a year...and has been told that she will be eventually in a wheelchair. I have a freakin pharmacy in my house...pain patches every day and percocet is just like candy. The love of her life is gardening. She can't do nearly as much as she wants to and, in fact, can't do nearly as much as she used to even a few years ago. And when she does do something, she pays dearly for it afterwards. And there are other issues as well, but the point is that I live with pain every day and am well familiar with its effects, not only on the one with the pain, but the ones who live with and love the person in chronic pain.
One thing I've noted in people who have experienced suffering is that there are basically four reactions to it:
- The normal one is that the person bears his suffering with grace, but, when it crosses a threshold (as happens from time to time), the frustration leaks out.
- There are those I've seen who have been delivered from their suffering (yes, Virginia, miracles do happen)
- There are those who are not able to bear suffering with grace, and their lives, and the lives around them, are a living hell
- There are those (a very small group), who actually seem to thrive in their suffering. They believe that they have been blessed. Not blessed in spite of their situation, but that their situation is a part of their blessing and, in fact, are thankful for it. And you can see that the reaction is not a fake. I, personally, can't really comprehend that reaction (thus part of my rationale for starting to study this), but I know it exists. I've read about it before in the lives of the saints. I have also seen it personally.
(btw, you can replace "suffering" with pain, with poverty, with persecution, or with any specific subset of suffering if you'd like)
So, I'm trying to learn if there is something from the Bible that can help explain that fourth reaction listed above. Your statement, "We can't be comfortable if we're in pain, suffering, etc. But let's face it. There's all kinds of pain. You never know who you are standing next to and who you can help by living the love of God. There's broken legs and broken hearts. Things we see and things we don't see," really helped bring this back to where it started. You can't be comfortable, yet some people thrive. And there are all sorts of suffering.
I just read thru this tread and although I mean no disrespect to anyone who's posted, I am seeing the same thing. Plenty of Bible verses being put out, but where is the knowledge gained from someone who's been there and can speak from experience. Verses are nice, yes, but I wanna hear what God has done to help people thru their pain along with them.
BikerBabe,
I am sorry that what I'd shared didn't do anything for you. As I stated in my first post, I was studying the subject of suffering in the Bible. The motivation behind it was in regards to pain that my wife is undergoing, but, as I said in the post immediately above.
I can somewhat sympatize with what you're dealing with. In addition to the spine problems, above, my wife also has chronic inflammatory bowel disease (although not Crohn's -- as we've discovered through a couple of laparotomies, it appears to be caused by recurring adhesions in her abdomen).
All I can say is that God wants to deliver us. Sometimes that delivery is from our suffering (of whatever variety). But sometimes it is through our suffering (of whatever variety).
I know that the above is not of comfort to you and I'm sorry for that, but it does appear to be the way it is.
Again, I can sympathize and I am sorry for what you've gone through. I'm sorry I haven't had the words you've sought. In truth, with the controversy that I've caused, I wish that I had just kept this thread to myself and not bothered anybody with it. But its too late for that. So, please accept my apologies instead. I had no intention of causing anybody any additional pain.
I'm sorry, but I have a hard time understanding your writing.
I've reviewed this thread pretty thoroughly and the only question I asked was:
The real question is that I'm wondering about the connection between the affliction in the body, persecutions, etc., that we see and the reality of the mystical body of Christ? (Thus posting the example from Revelation) Is that the explanation for Col 1:24?
I think your response was:
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; 24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
Paul suffered for them
he gave of himself
that power of Christ in word and deed and truth
which is work and takes a bit out of ya
but when you give you receive
and the point is giving...that they may receive
pulling yourself out of the picture and putting God first
this is worshiping God in spirit and in truth
by speaking the language, the toungue of the spirit
mixing it up..of men and angels-his angels, Paul's
which stirred up the spirit of God within them
and they heard because they were looking..seeking
but without Love it will not work
But as I said above, I have a really hard time understanding your writing. What I got out of that was an encouragement to speak in tongues more, which I considered a non-response. It didn't answer the question.
And then after that, you have incessently slammed me in almost all your posts on this thread...either back-handed slams or direct ones like this.
Maybe its that my reading comprehension is inadequate, but that's what I've gotten out of this deal. But I do believe that you've misrepresented me.
Nevertheless, as I've said to BikerBabe, I do apologize for causing all of this controversy. Had I been aware that I'd cause all the misunderstandings and discomfort with people on this thread, I'd have never started it. I'd have just mulled it over in my mind, trusting the Holy Spirit to illuminate my understanding, and not thrown it out for discussion. I'll try not to start controversial subjects in "Doctrine" again. No promises, but I'll try.
And I appreciate it also CM but I didn't see anything I could add to the mix. I think you and I have some differences and I saw no point in just putting out the words. You weren't pushing me on it so I just relaxed back on ya.
I agree in that God is so much bigger in grace and compassion than I'd imagined and I'd known him since I was a child and went to him almost in desperation of being alone in my hell. He took my hand then and he still holds it now.
I use to worry what folks here would think if I dared step out into areas some adamantly slammed but you know what they put on their pants the same way as I. And I reckon they also have the same shortcomings I do as well.
I've also in the past three years (approx) since I left twi and joined here read of accounts where the details of the accounts were somewhat off from the original event. How do I know that? Because I was there! But you know what I sat back and considered the one telling the account and determined in their heart that was how they remembered it and they also were suffering through deliverance. So my embarrassing them would profit no one at all. Did I then discount that person on all they said in the future? Nope!
I brought that up to say even here we can err but if we give consideration of each other we can also gain much.
As for this tying to your comments directly, I don't know but it's what I had.
Hey Mark. I'm just not the type of person who enjoys talking Bible much after TWI I guess. The post you did about your wife tells me what you are dealing with on a daily basis and I'm so sorry to hear of the pain she has. Please tell her that anytime she needs to vent or talk about the pain, I'm here. I've found it really helps someone if they can talk to someone else who has been there. That's how the forum I run for pain patients and addicts got started. We all can relate to each other and support each other thru the rough days. Thank you so much for telling me her story.
IBD of any type is nasty. I so hate to hear of anyone who has it and know the pain involved. Adhesions are just plain bad. So far I've not been thru that, but know many that have. You said she didn't have Crohn's, but as far as I remember, you don't get adhesions from Ulcercative Colitis, the other IBD. They didn't find my Crohn's until they did a barium gulp, iodine push CT Scan. Has her doctor had her take one of those yet? Laps, colonoscopes and all those type tests never found mine .. only that CT scan. Just a FYI in case she flares up in the future.
I can so relate to your wife when she does something and then pays for it later. I'm the same way. I go out of the house for a day of fun and I can expect to be down for the next week or two after. It can be very fustrating at times. I just do my best to find the one thing that makes me laugh every day and that seems to help. The gang who hang out in GS chat help me more than they will ever know.
That's cool the patch helps her. I tried it in the past, but with my EBA, bubbling skin disease related to the Crohn's, I can't tolerate it. I know those that it works for say it is a life saver. I did a detox last year and went 8 months 'sober' to get my tolerance down, then the Crohn's flared again. That was enough time sober, for me to be able to now take only 1 1/2 Lortab 10's every 4 hours, instead of the 400 mg of Morphine or Oxycontin I was on. My doc wants me back on Oxycontin to avoid the Tylenol destroying my liver, but without insurance, there is no way I can afford 300 bucks a month for 60 pills. Your wife has a good doc it sounds like if she's on the patch and using Percs for breakthru pain. Good combo for chronic pain.
I have a wheelchair I manged to get some years back when I did have insurance. I use it when my flares get to the point I am not comfortable walking very far on my own when outside the house. I think the hardest part of them is the mental. It feels like you are 'giving in' instead of 'fighting'. I'm pretty stubborn and will fight it till I can't any more and am walking doubled over and dragging one leg, then I'll get back in the damned thing. I have yet to learn to do wheelies in it though. *sigh* I even have wheelie bars on it, but am not strong enough in my arms to get it up in the air. I will get there one day. Hah!
Do NOT apologize for starting this thread! What helps one person may not help someone else. We have all grown since our TWI days and now we are each reached in different ways on various subjects. It's good to discuss them all so everyone gets the help they need.
You are a good man Mark. The caretakers of pain patients go thru their own hell, sometimes I think more than the person in pain. I remember being in an elevator once with my hubby going to a doc visit and the 'lift' of it made my gut pain kick in. I doubled and dropped like a rock. He knows to avoid the instinct to make a grab for me, for that could end up hurting me more if he'd grab an arm instead of my body as I dropped and pulled it out of the socket or something. I know how to fall without hurting myself and then sit there on the floor till the pain passes and can go on. There was a lady in there with us who got sooooo upset when he didn't try to help me (in her eyes) and she cursed him for being uncaring. She didn't get it that he was helping me by letting me go down in the way that helps me most, so I could get past the pain and go on with my day.
Hope this finds your wife having a painfree day as possible! Treasure the good ones, deal with the painful.
Unfortunately, the duragesic is not working as well as it was...and I think that we may need to go up to the next higher dosage of it.
Yes, I am aware of a lot of chronic pain support groups. There are several in the DC area where I live. I'm glad that you have gotten a lot of help with them. My wife is not into the "group" thing so much. She has tried some pain management therapy (nerve blocks, etc.), but got some mixed results from her efforts. We may try to get a pain pump implanted if the upcoming round of surgeries is unsuccessful.
But this was not intended to be a (whine) about my wife's condition or (whine) about my caretaker position thread. I wouldn't have put it down in the "Doctrinal" basement of the cafe had that been the intent. I was just trying to share some things I found in the Bible that were prompted by that situation. Unfortunately the information wasn't received in the manner that I'd hoped (either: gee that's cool, I hadn't seen that before or No Mark, you're wrong. Did you not consider the following). But such is life.
And I can very much so appreciate anybody not feeling that comfortable with dealing with the Bible after having been in TWI. It was several years after I got out of TWI and had tried a couple of offshoot groups before I could come back to dealing with the Bible. And I didn't get horribly burnt by TWI (I left on my own back in '89, versus being M&A'd, being abused and having to escape, or whatever). If somebody did get "burnt" by TWI, I could appreciate them having a life-long resentment of everything to do with God.
As to the giving up part: no, we're not. The priority of action is:
1) Corrective medical therapy (surgery, PT, whatever) to the degree that we can. Its very convenient to live only 20 minutes from Johns Hopkins in regards to that :)
2) Adaptive medical therapy (pain management and mobility stuff)
3) Spiritual therapy (trying to see if there is an ultimate 'good' to this undesirable situation -- what kind of 'lemonade' God can make from these 'lemons'). Just because we are looking in this direction is not that we're giving up on the fight, btw. But I believe that the psychological damage done by this can be mitigated if we can see what spiritual good happens as a result of it.
For me it gendered deeper thinking into something I was near anyway in my personal studies. So thank you. I'm also sorry that I wasn't on the subject matter. I rather wandered in my own direction I realize. :mellow:
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irisheyes
Mark,
I was referring to Philippians 2, just didn't have the time to stop and look it up.
Hey, do you type all that stuff or do you copy it from somewhere? Whew!!
It is a good point, huh? Consider this:
Our temptation today is to make Jesus a savior we can be comfortable with.
We were studying Matthew 3 and how John the Baptist went after the Pharisees, quoting their bloodline, etc. We can quote whoever we want, say whatever we want, believe what we want. But, if we really repent our lives will bear fruit. We repent unto something. That something is, or should be, to live as Christ lived. In Chapter 11 of Matthew, John the Baptist actually sends two of his men to ask Jesus if he really is the one who was to come. Why? Because he wasn't the savior they expected. They expected a political leader, a king, someone to restore the kingdom to Israel. They just weren't comfortable with a man who spent the majority of his time with the sick, blind, lame, etc., all of whom were considered sinners. They were considered lame because they sinned and therefore God took His protection away from them. Remember the account where Jesus healed the man born blind and they asked who sinned? Him or his parents? That's why they thought he was blind--because of sin. Silly, huh? How could a newborn sin. So, it had to be his parents. But, they wouldn't own up to it. Why? They'd be downcast. That's who Jesus hung with. The downcast. The dregs of society. At least today we know we are ALL sinners. Sickness or not.
We can't be comfortable if we're in pain, suffering, etc. But let's face it. There's all kinds of pain. You never know who you are standing next to and who you can help by living the love of God. There's broken legs and broken hearts. Things we see and things we don't see.
:blink:
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ChattyKathy
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CM
Mark had questions.
he turned it to verses.
i told what the sufferings were in colossians
and it has been rejected-so be it
maybe another time i could tell of this suffering
and Kathy asked me to clarify
what i said and what i meant
so i did
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markomalley
Irisheyes,
No, I don't hardly type the stuff up. LOL -- There are a number of online bible sites that you can use:
http://www.blueletterbible.org
http://www.biblegateway.com
are two good sites. The blue letter bible has greek as well, linked to strong's word numbers and has a scanned copy of Thayer's lexicon, as well (of course you have to keep in mind Thayer's theological perspective when reading it).
A profound point that you make above. And that, in truth, is the reason why I started studying this subject.
There are a lot of people with a tremendous amount of suffering in their lives (be it physical, psychological, social, or whatever). I've seen examples of it all the time in numerous people; in fact, I have to live with it all the time...my wife has a degenerative spine. Its something we've lived with for the past 15 years. She's had three surgeries on it so far and is scheduled with her third surgery on her neck on Oct. 17th. Immediately following, she will be going to another doctor to evaluate her for a possible second surgery on her thoractic spine, surgery on her lumbar spine, and possibly surgery on her hip (arthritis). She's not in a wheelchair (yet), but has gone from hobbling to a cane to a walker in little more than a year...and has been told that she will be eventually in a wheelchair. I have a freakin pharmacy in my house...pain patches every day and percocet is just like candy. The love of her life is gardening. She can't do nearly as much as she wants to and, in fact, can't do nearly as much as she used to even a few years ago. And when she does do something, she pays dearly for it afterwards. And there are other issues as well, but the point is that I live with pain every day and am well familiar with its effects, not only on the one with the pain, but the ones who live with and love the person in chronic pain.
One thing I've noted in people who have experienced suffering is that there are basically four reactions to it:
- The normal one is that the person bears his suffering with grace, but, when it crosses a threshold (as happens from time to time), the frustration leaks out.
- There are those I've seen who have been delivered from their suffering (yes, Virginia, miracles do happen)
- There are those who are not able to bear suffering with grace, and their lives, and the lives around them, are a living hell
- There are those (a very small group), who actually seem to thrive in their suffering. They believe that they have been blessed. Not blessed in spite of their situation, but that their situation is a part of their blessing and, in fact, are thankful for it. And you can see that the reaction is not a fake. I, personally, can't really comprehend that reaction (thus part of my rationale for starting to study this), but I know it exists. I've read about it before in the lives of the saints. I have also seen it personally.
(btw, you can replace "suffering" with pain, with poverty, with persecution, or with any specific subset of suffering if you'd like)
So, I'm trying to learn if there is something from the Bible that can help explain that fourth reaction listed above. Your statement, "We can't be comfortable if we're in pain, suffering, etc. But let's face it. There's all kinds of pain. You never know who you are standing next to and who you can help by living the love of God. There's broken legs and broken hearts. Things we see and things we don't see," really helped bring this back to where it started. You can't be comfortable, yet some people thrive. And there are all sorts of suffering.
Thanks for listening.
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markomalley
BikerBabe,
I am sorry that what I'd shared didn't do anything for you. As I stated in my first post, I was studying the subject of suffering in the Bible. The motivation behind it was in regards to pain that my wife is undergoing, but, as I said in the post immediately above.
I can somewhat sympatize with what you're dealing with. In addition to the spine problems, above, my wife also has chronic inflammatory bowel disease (although not Crohn's -- as we've discovered through a couple of laparotomies, it appears to be caused by recurring adhesions in her abdomen).
All I can say is that God wants to deliver us. Sometimes that delivery is from our suffering (of whatever variety). But sometimes it is through our suffering (of whatever variety).
I know that the above is not of comfort to you and I'm sorry for that, but it does appear to be the way it is.
Again, I can sympathize and I am sorry for what you've gone through. I'm sorry I haven't had the words you've sought. In truth, with the controversy that I've caused, I wish that I had just kept this thread to myself and not bothered anybody with it. But its too late for that. So, please accept my apologies instead. I had no intention of causing anybody any additional pain.
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markomalley
CM,
I'm sorry, but I have a hard time understanding your writing.
I've reviewed this thread pretty thoroughly and the only question I asked was:
I think your response was:But as I said above, I have a really hard time understanding your writing. What I got out of that was an encouragement to speak in tongues more, which I considered a non-response. It didn't answer the question.
And then after that, you have incessently slammed me in almost all your posts on this thread...either back-handed slams or direct ones like this.
Maybe its that my reading comprehension is inadequate, but that's what I've gotten out of this deal. But I do believe that you've misrepresented me.
Nevertheless, as I've said to BikerBabe, I do apologize for causing all of this controversy. Had I been aware that I'd cause all the misunderstandings and discomfort with people on this thread, I'd have never started it. I'd have just mulled it over in my mind, trusting the Holy Spirit to illuminate my understanding, and not thrown it out for discussion. I'll try not to start controversial subjects in "Doctrine" again. No promises, but I'll try.
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CM
Mark
it doesn't surprise me or offend me or hurt me that you do not understand what i said.
i didn't say speak in toungues more
there is a great lack of understanding about speaking in the toungues of men and angels as described in corinthians
VPW and others have taken a shot at what it supposed mean
and have been close in my opinion
you are expressing yourself from your perspective and what you see.
You have not hurt anyone at all.
love always
and this is simply not true
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ChattyKathy
And I appreciate it also CM but I didn't see anything I could add to the mix. I think you and I have some differences and I saw no point in just putting out the words. You weren't pushing me on it so I just relaxed back on ya.
I'll be attentive if I should return okay.
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CM
well...allow be to go a bit further Kathy, and to any listening
it was this mind set that i took the path through this wilderness of the Greasespot Cafe
and a few other sites that caught my attention
more then five years ago now.....
cuz i knew what the wrong way was, this was clear
i had to break it's hold on my life and did it to a large degree
and thanks to common sense, many greasers
and Christ himself, somehow i managed to do it
and i was then able to hear different views and consider different thinking
so i did and it opened my ears and eyes to listen and see and
God was there. i didn't care if the answers came from a 12 year old
but i was listening finally, just a bit cuz we know how that old way brain
wants to take over our impulses sometimes, and still having to keep this in check
i listened and listened and a few were speaking the words of life
answers started coming slowly at first then a burst of truth that i had never seen
yeah signs and miracles that some i still wonder about...
but more importantly a clearing of the air in my mind
a straightening of that which had been made crooked
and a love that i thought existed, but only dreamed about
was right there in my face doing it's work, bigger and greater then thought before
so others are different i know but this is what i have seen amd continue to grow in
we will all go to heaven, and there is a road to travel
where it can be seen now, and it ain't easy but desired,
to loose myself to find the answers, so i've found a few
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ChattyKathy
Clay,
I agree in that God is so much bigger in grace and compassion than I'd imagined and I'd known him since I was a child and went to him almost in desperation of being alone in my hell. He took my hand then and he still holds it now.
I use to worry what folks here would think if I dared step out into areas some adamantly slammed but you know what they put on their pants the same way as I. And I reckon they also have the same shortcomings I do as well.
I've also in the past three years (approx) since I left twi and joined here read of accounts where the details of the accounts were somewhat off from the original event. How do I know that? Because I was there! But you know what I sat back and considered the one telling the account and determined in their heart that was how they remembered it and they also were suffering through deliverance. So my embarrassing them would profit no one at all. Did I then discount that person on all they said in the future? Nope!
I brought that up to say even here we can err but if we give consideration of each other we can also gain much.
As for this tying to your comments directly, I don't know but it's what I had.
Kathy
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CM
Kathy i've seen your posts and know you have much heart imo
if i stepped into some areas that have offended, i wish i wouldn't have
but such is life, we are human and make mistakes, but God don't
and it's good to be able to speak your mind without putting one on the defensive
but rather to give an account of our own experiences and learn from each other
and there are many things i have to say that cannot be said yet
the one thing that still gets me is when one trys to enslave another into there line of thinking
in order to gain a follower of themselves, and thinking for yourself is lost
and the Spirit of God within us is hindered stifled, quenched and limited
so i believe in letting people think and do as they please to that point
but sometimes my feathers get ruffled...normal i suppose...
and i believe that God has already won life for all
and that Jesus became one with the Christ
to give us all life, noone will be missed
so it's not a push to make anyone see
but a search for those looking
love always
(gotta go to work-will see you around the spot)
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BikerBabe
Hey Mark. I'm just not the type of person who enjoys talking Bible much after TWI I guess. The post you did about your wife tells me what you are dealing with on a daily basis and I'm so sorry to hear of the pain she has. Please tell her that anytime she needs to vent or talk about the pain, I'm here. I've found it really helps someone if they can talk to someone else who has been there. That's how the forum I run for pain patients and addicts got started. We all can relate to each other and support each other thru the rough days. Thank you so much for telling me her story.
IBD of any type is nasty. I so hate to hear of anyone who has it and know the pain involved. Adhesions are just plain bad. So far I've not been thru that, but know many that have. You said she didn't have Crohn's, but as far as I remember, you don't get adhesions from Ulcercative Colitis, the other IBD. They didn't find my Crohn's until they did a barium gulp, iodine push CT Scan. Has her doctor had her take one of those yet? Laps, colonoscopes and all those type tests never found mine .. only that CT scan. Just a FYI in case she flares up in the future.
I can so relate to your wife when she does something and then pays for it later. I'm the same way. I go out of the house for a day of fun and I can expect to be down for the next week or two after. It can be very fustrating at times. I just do my best to find the one thing that makes me laugh every day and that seems to help. The gang who hang out in GS chat help me more than they will ever know.
That's cool the patch helps her. I tried it in the past, but with my EBA, bubbling skin disease related to the Crohn's, I can't tolerate it. I know those that it works for say it is a life saver. I did a detox last year and went 8 months 'sober' to get my tolerance down, then the Crohn's flared again. That was enough time sober, for me to be able to now take only 1 1/2 Lortab 10's every 4 hours, instead of the 400 mg of Morphine or Oxycontin I was on. My doc wants me back on Oxycontin to avoid the Tylenol destroying my liver, but without insurance, there is no way I can afford 300 bucks a month for 60 pills. Your wife has a good doc it sounds like if she's on the patch and using Percs for breakthru pain. Good combo for chronic pain.
I have a wheelchair I manged to get some years back when I did have insurance. I use it when my flares get to the point I am not comfortable walking very far on my own when outside the house. I think the hardest part of them is the mental. It feels like you are 'giving in' instead of 'fighting'. I'm pretty stubborn and will fight it till I can't any more and am walking doubled over and dragging one leg, then I'll get back in the damned thing. I have yet to learn to do wheelies in it though. *sigh* I even have wheelie bars on it, but am not strong enough in my arms to get it up in the air. I will get there one day. Hah!
Do NOT apologize for starting this thread! What helps one person may not help someone else. We have all grown since our TWI days and now we are each reached in different ways on various subjects. It's good to discuss them all so everyone gets the help they need.
You are a good man Mark. The caretakers of pain patients go thru their own hell, sometimes I think more than the person in pain. I remember being in an elevator once with my hubby going to a doc visit and the 'lift' of it made my gut pain kick in. I doubled and dropped like a rock. He knows to avoid the instinct to make a grab for me, for that could end up hurting me more if he'd grab an arm instead of my body as I dropped and pulled it out of the socket or something. I know how to fall without hurting myself and then sit there on the floor till the pain passes and can go on. There was a lady in there with us who got sooooo upset when he didn't try to help me (in her eyes) and she cursed him for being uncaring. She didn't get it that he was helping me by letting me go down in the way that helps me most, so I could get past the pain and go on with my day.
Hope this finds your wife having a painfree day as possible! Treasure the good ones, deal with the painful.
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ChattyKathy
How comforting BikerBabe.
Clay, no problems with us okeedokee.
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markomalley
Thanks for your nice words, Biker Babe.
Unfortunately, the duragesic is not working as well as it was...and I think that we may need to go up to the next higher dosage of it.
Yes, I am aware of a lot of chronic pain support groups. There are several in the DC area where I live. I'm glad that you have gotten a lot of help with them. My wife is not into the "group" thing so much. She has tried some pain management therapy (nerve blocks, etc.), but got some mixed results from her efforts. We may try to get a pain pump implanted if the upcoming round of surgeries is unsuccessful.
But this was not intended to be a (whine) about my wife's condition or (whine) about my caretaker position thread. I wouldn't have put it down in the "Doctrinal" basement of the cafe had that been the intent. I was just trying to share some things I found in the Bible that were prompted by that situation. Unfortunately the information wasn't received in the manner that I'd hoped (either: gee that's cool, I hadn't seen that before or No Mark, you're wrong. Did you not consider the following). But such is life.
And I can very much so appreciate anybody not feeling that comfortable with dealing with the Bible after having been in TWI. It was several years after I got out of TWI and had tried a couple of offshoot groups before I could come back to dealing with the Bible. And I didn't get horribly burnt by TWI (I left on my own back in '89, versus being M&A'd, being abused and having to escape, or whatever). If somebody did get "burnt" by TWI, I could appreciate them having a life-long resentment of everything to do with God.
As to the giving up part: no, we're not. The priority of action is:
1) Corrective medical therapy (surgery, PT, whatever) to the degree that we can. Its very convenient to live only 20 minutes from Johns Hopkins in regards to that :)
2) Adaptive medical therapy (pain management and mobility stuff)
3) Spiritual therapy (trying to see if there is an ultimate 'good' to this undesirable situation -- what kind of 'lemonade' God can make from these 'lemons'). Just because we are looking in this direction is not that we're giving up on the fight, btw. But I believe that the psychological damage done by this can be mitigated if we can see what spiritual good happens as a result of it.
Again, thanks.
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ChattyKathy
Mark,
For me it gendered deeper thinking into something I was near anyway in my personal studies. So thank you. I'm also sorry that I wasn't on the subject matter. I rather wandered in my own direction I realize. :mellow:
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