Caveman

It isn't, so your hypothetical is going to be skewed if the "LOB" is the metric by which you're measuring the outcome, ie, did you believe, who believed, etc.

Right, it isn't a law as it was taught in PFAL, but it is based in truth. In order to be a good counterfeit it has to look like the genuine. Have you ever heard that before?

Secondly if believing is the key to receiving it as PFAL teaches, it stands to reason that the believing has to focus on the one doing the giving - Christ - and not the thing being received. He came so others can have life and life more abundanty - so Christ is the key. I am come that...there's a result, but there's no result without the cause.

This is another component, the crux actually, but there is still more.

The Law of Believing works for saint and sinner alike, according to PFAL.

It does, but if it is not through Christ, it is witchcraft.

A friend of mine became acutely ill with a very serious disease. Rather than seek the medical treatment he desperately needed he tried to "believe" his way back to health. He died. Then he was blamed for his own death...

There was a line that went "Whatever it takes to believe" that I guess was not known thruout this ministry/cult. The idea was that if you need to go to the doctor in order to believe, do so. When I quit smoking I used those Waterpic filters to cut down the drug. Somebody said to me, "Why don't you just believe God to quit?" Somebody else said, "He is. That's why he's using those filters. James 2:26 if the reference there.

Looks like somebody never met anyone who's life was nearly destroyed by being blamed for their horrible experiences by the religious leaders, using their doctrine in the Law of Believing as the Hammer.

You didn't understand what I was saying. Sometimes I speak in parables. Let me put it another way:

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one IN THE SPIRIT OF MEEKNESS; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

The ugly side of the believing doctrine was when someone had a huge bad problem--and didn't receive the deliverance they were supposed to from their Father God. Gasp! how could that happen?--but it happened all the time! Eventually the fingers point to the hurting person, and a hefty load of condemnation and suspicion grows around.

Looks like somebody didn't read the last part of Gal 6:1

False intelligence is no match for genuine stupidity

We can correctly identify pizza because we (most of us) have had verifiable previous experiences sampling pizza.

Besides, if there are counterfeits, some criteria must be used to tell them from the real thing. I'm not doubting your experiences, I'm just leary of "feelings" without some kind of checks and balances. I thought I felt the right stuff when I was in TWI too.

IMO Tony's pizza is a counterfeit.

He fell on his a$$, I told you he was crippled!

LOL

Also, Kenyon was a big proponent of the "name it and claim it" theology. Kenyon was also a student of Mary Baker Eddy, the lady who started Christian Science

I have found Kenyon to be rather balanced. The problem was that people would take him out of context. I believe that he also renounced Christian Science.

If it really was a "LAW" wouldn't that be disappointing to come out of a Monster-Movie and really have your brains eaten by the undead?

First, you have to know what's available.

I have a cousin-in-law that is part of the International House of Prayer - she is a very sweet girl - although she can be pretty darn argumentitive at times when talking about her belief system... Which I totally get. I used to be the same way myself.

My husband and I are really looking for something that is a little bit more on the mellow side... at least for right now. After being involved in twi and then going to a church that was very into casting out devils in front of the congregation and singling out individuals from the congregation/audience to come up in front of everyone...

IHOP would be very active worship (which I love). The casting out devils thing I expect would be much more gentile there and very private. It is my understanding that they believe in inner healing which is something that you may be interested in. Basically it is casting out devils, but it is done in a very different way.

A lot of the devils that are cast out were never there in the first place. Inner healing is more of a search and destroy mission. It's kind of like counseling, but it is more like talking about deep issues with a good friend.

What did it feel like? And how did you know it was the Lord? Do you believe feelings can be counterfeit as well? Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really am wondering about how far we can trust "feelings."

Oh comm'on, what does pizza taste like and how do you know it's pizza? Yes, there are counterfeits, and I can tell the difference, but how do I explain it to you? It's something that you have to experience.

Gee, Caveman, that's quite a leap from my description of what I experienced firsthand to your remark ASSuming that I don't like fun. Obviously, you've never had the pleasure of spending any time with me.

My lame attempt at hummer.

Just curious, and not being a smart aleck about it. But how do you know it was spiritual, or supernatural, as opposed to just very emotional? I've been duped by emotional stuff, so I'm very cautious.

If everybody feels it at the same time, it's probably spiritual.

One time I delivered a pizza to a Pentecostal church. I felt the presence of the Lord as I walked in the door, and it was not emotion. All I had on my mind was delivering a pizza. I was actually surprised by it, because I don't agree with their theology.

Move over Sister Beatrice, I need to gargle!

I remember that one. I don't think you should tell it here.

So, this guy walks into a bar and says, "Ouch."

I'd heard that the Polish Pope's first miracle was to make a blind man lame.

Every week it seemed another family left or was kicked out or was M&A'd.

What kind of things did people get kicked out or marked and avoided for?

Seth is my friend. I like to think the best for him. Until the med reports are back, I'd rather not jump to conclusions.

It was definitely in PFAL. What I'm asking is where did vpw get it? I can't find it in the Bible.

All I know about believing is that it just is. For instance, I know my Father God will take care of me no matter what. He is my Father, I am His child. I would do no less for my children. My children know (that is believing) that I am their mother and know in all the sum and substance of our relationship what it will produce. I sure as heck know they are my children. There is no method or steps. It just is. Our Father God does no less for and/or with us.

OK, that's what I call believing.

Suppose, though, one of your children were rebellious. Would you not withhold some blessing or even prescribe some disciplinary action?

this was said to give us the power to get our wants just find a way to make it a need

Where did that needs and wants parallel thing come from? I remember trying to do a teaching on that and couldn't find any Scripture to back it up.

My pastor and I were just talking about him on Saturday.

I was steadily distracted by all the people that were running around or dancing or falling down on the floor or or dropping to their knees or shouting "Praise Jesus" and "I love you Jesus" at what appeared to me to be random moments throughout the service.

You may not like our church either. We have fun too.

I was told the people "prayed IN THE SPIRIT", meaning that they prayed hard enough that they collectively sort of summoned THE HOLY SPIRIT into the room. I don't know that I believe that, it's what I was told there by several people "in the know". I do know I felt something intense and heavy in that room and people were saying it was "THE HOLY SPIRIT".

When the spirit moves, the atmosphere of the room changes. I don't call that praying in the spirit, though. The spirit is always there. It could be an angelic presence or maybe it is what the OT called the glory of the Lord.

OK, so it looks like nobody wants to discuss this. How about if I approached it from a different angel?

Lets say for the sake of argument that believing is a law just as twi taught it. Now, lets say you were believing for such-n-such, but you had a WOW Coordinator, a Limb Leader, a Branch Leader and 45 other people saying that you are a dork, and couldn't believe for tying your own shoes.

Now you have failed in what you believed for.

Whose fault is it?

For example,ever heard of circular breathing?

This is something that my instructer could do when I studied Aikido.