houseisarockin

oldiesman, You stated you saw the sexual overtures from VPW. I am guessing you did not spend much time observing LCM. Had you done so you would have seen he was much more skilled at letting his intentions be known. He was not a fondler of sorts like his teacher was. So if you can admit knowledge of the subject matter then why can you not accept the lengths gone to by both of these men to obtain satisfying their lust? Do you want it written in blood? If so you have read it in this forum since you registered. Is it possibly more the point you think we should have gotten over the abuse by now? If you gave yourself the room to believe we ever were. And because someone gives an account of their history does not mean they are sitting around 24/7 thinking about it, maybe there could be someone like that, but from what I have read the most part is telling not reliving. To those abused in ways other than sexual I apologize for not including you in my posting. Your situations are equally devastating. imbus, thank you but can I bring tequila instead.

I don't like the Dark Monkey. I'm still not feeling so good. :(-->

Why is it so hard to just admit the Word was twisted for self gratification? And that the first 'well trained' the second. There is more than enough proof. The doctrine that it was alright for women to be intimate with either of those men came from somewhere. And that is not even taking into account those not willing.

dmiller, Just like in the OLD days they still use them to the best of my knowledge. -->

Thank you A la prochaine, but I have had this nearly uncontrollable urge to go swimming while eating a banana since looking into that now confirmed imposter's eyes. Maybe I can find the courage of WhiteDove's spooked one to help combat it. But I will never look behind the curtain, no way!

:)-->

Those of us who were still a part of twi during the switch over to "disciple" status were told this was a breakthrough in our understanding as a household. We were now "fully set up for success". Today thinking back on that exciting time (gag me with a spoon) I thought I would look up the definition of the word. You may find of interest how it relates to being in a position of a "seemingly well intentioned person", and how without even recognizing it becoming partakers of things not Godly. From the front of the room to behind closed doors. 1) One who receives instruction from another; a scholar; a learner; especially, a follower who has learned to BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH of the DOCTRINE of HIS teacher. 2) To make disciples of; to CONVERT to doctrines or PRINCIPLIES. 3) IMITATES his EXAMPLE.

Thank you vickles. Tom, I'm still afraid of something. Leaders who would say "I know what is better for your spiritual growth than you do".

Such entrapment when it was only our desire to serve God. Regardless of the woman’s role the MOG knew better, but did not constrain themselves. How do they deserve to be excused?

Thank you Tom for directions in obtaining some insight. Your quote "That way you can form your own opinions based upon what that person posted, not on what someone else says" is one to be respected. I have read several articles on this website's main page, of which there was one regarding affair. Excellent article! And I realize one can know little of me based on a handful of posts, so my cliff notes version would be: If I being married had a sexual relationship with other than my spouse I would be in defiance of the agreement made by each. As well, I believe I would be equally placed in respect to God's will. (end of cliff notes) However, that is not to say a woman could not be so broken of spirit that she is able to shelf this acknowledgment. In order to survive a situation not invited yet critical for keeping intact things she holds precious. Thank you also WordWolf for your agreement with Tom which respects getting to know someone based on their own words.

Thank you imbus. I am trying to piece it together here. I am far from having all my demons exorcised. Wouldn't I be burnt at the stack for that one? ;)--> But I find it easier to see the bigger picture than I once did.

I am not particularly thrilled about talking about someone not able to reply for the weekend, however am I missing something here? It would appear oldiesman admits this man would/could have done the things some know to be true. Am I correct that it is the fact he is holding the woman responsible for her participation that is still in conflict here? I see some reference to another topic ties in here so indulge me if you would with the cliff notes version. Does he agree that both MOG held some of us in bondage which was an incredible abuse of clergy towards their flock? I see that he holds some level of respect for what he was taught while a part of twi, and in that I can not convict the man of something that I myself could be accused of, as I too have not turned my back on all that I was taught while in for close to 20 years. And thank you Tom Strange.

Thank you WaywardWayfer. oldiesman, I agree in part with what you have said here. I know for a fact there were women that readily made themselves available to both of those men. And since you don't know me I would like to offer I am not one that has thrown out all that I learned from VPW and LCM, and certainly never threw out my belief in God and His word. Having said that I would like to ask is there any instance where a woman could be sexually abused besides the ones you stated (mentally retarded, children, or narcotized)? Now allow me to pretend your answer is yes and proceed. Could there also be an instance where the cost of denying continuation could be higher in her mind than the self degradation she must endure to comply? Okay taking it one step further if I may. Who then would be the one truly responsible for this injustice towards a soul placed in his spiritual care? And please I ask of you can we put aside the adultery point, for I myself would agree if she continued to comply she would in fact have been committing said point.

Thank you Raf and dmiller. Raf, I like my coffee leaded. No wonder why a woman conceals sexual abuse. It would appear there are some who believe it was willingly given by ALL whom 'knew' these two men's beds. Why then would a woman share her account? I suspect if they were handed intimate details only known to one having been there they would still somehow believe it to be the woman's will. And when the day is over and all is said and done the MOG that came and conquered will have to account, not to me although they will beg it be that way, but to the real searcher of hearts and deeds.

When someone is a prisoner mentally it can prepare for physical prisons, thus enabling the abuser absolute authority. Especially if no one restrains the abuser but rather facilitates their actions. Some freely gave believing him to be the man God placed in authority over them spiritually. And he certainly had access to influence our thoughts and behavior because of that trust handed to him. As far as it being the woman's responsibility, it is quite different from a woman flirting in public with a stranger and then upon accepting an invitation to his room is put in a corner to put out. She implied the possibility via her actions. But when a self proclaimed MOG uses his flock because he knows he can control the outcome for personal satisfaction, when it was never flirted at by her and certainly never desired of by her, then it is very different. Does she still hold some responsibility? One would have had to be in her shoes to know what the cost of refusal could have been. Does this negate the good gained while a part of twi. Nothing can negate what the true giver God gave us during our time in. But it is still evil to have taken advantage of us, some more than others. Thankfully even that can lesson in time because of God's healing power.