WhiteDove

The Topeka born progressive rock band will be filming a DVD at White Concert hall tonight backed by a full symphony orchestra. Commemorating the 35th anniversary of the release of the self titled debut album Kansas. Special gusts will include returning founding members and former band members. Also featured will be the use of the concert halls grand old pipe organ. Kansas long ago abandoned the Hammond B3 organ with the Leslie due to it's moving weight on tour. In my opinion they never were able to reproduce that signature sound since then. That old pipe organ is in for a ride when Steve Walsh takes the keyboard tonight. This should be an awesome show with the backing of the full symphony and the pipe organ.

Got to rock on, you wayward sons........

Got To Rock On

It's no fun hanging around winter seems so numbing

Getting fat where I sit down do you suppose it's old age coming

I get this feeling I'm no good for nothing life has led me wrong

Once in a while it makes it all worthwhile if I can sing this song

Got to rock on I can't be this way

I'm hanging around but wait till music's in season

That's when I'm high that is how I play

and I do it the best that's all I need for a reason

Can't think straight can't think at all staring out the window

Hear the band I hear them call everything will disappear and

I get the feeling I can conquer anything gets in my way

Don't need no doctor 'caus I know exactly what I need today I

Got to rock on I can't be this way

I'm hanging around but wait till music's in season

That's when I'm high that is how I play

and I do it the best that's all I need for a reason

The sun beats down upon me and it looks as tough that spring

Has waited long enough to get here she knows that I must

Sing about her future oh sing about her past I love to play my music

And I try to make it last but sometimes summer comes too fast

Got to rock on I can't be this way

I'm hanging around but wait till music's in season

That's when I'm high that is how I play

and I do it the best

Got to rock on I can't be this way

I'm hanging around but wait till music's in season

That's when I'm high that is how I play hey, Yeah..

and I do it the best that's all I need for a reason

Got to rock On !

Townsend works with the Geer group, he lived in Ohio, I believe in Columbus, don't know if he's still there.

Johnny lives in Beaver Creek out side of Dayton

Yes, geisha.........disputing excessively over these "he said/she said" word battles grows tiresome, eh?

So often, I think of Jesus' words......"Beware of the Herodians and the Pharisees"........the political leaders of that day and religious hierarchy seem to adopt the same type of posturing. The party line is, often, more important than the solution.

Regards.

I could not agree more perhaps if some would have a point rather than trying to take parts of sentences out of context or just plain old make s**t up and imply that a poster said it we all would be less tired.

I probably will do that, Waterloo has a borders. But I am buying at least 8 copies to go along with my 8 copies of "The Death of Superman", I am thinking that in another decade or two they might be worth double what I paid for them.

May I suggest when you do, a double death set would be a sure collectors item. The death of Superman and 12/3/09 the death of Obama-man's cabinet and stimulus bill together in one set.

Whitedove,

Hi, how are you? Good? I truly hope so. I want to make a quick point here. . . . because I think it is important. I don't want to derail this thread or cause a thread war or what ever, but I want to say this.

When I have had exchanges with you in the past. . . . they have usually turned into this kind of discussion. You said, I said, it means, no it doesn't. I didn't say that. . . you said I said that. . . you misrepresented me. . . . blah blah blah.

Did you EVER consider that this is a learned reaction or tactic?

A disputing over words. Being nearly obsessed with disputes and arguments over words? It is what we did in TWI. . . . while missing the important things of God.

If you want to call churches lacking, social, idolators, uninformed. . . whatever you want. . . do so at your own peril. . . I for one . . . . don't want to play semantics gotcha. . . .

Take care

Geisha

If you want to call churches lacking, social, idolaters, uninformed. . . whatever you want. . . do so at your own peril. . . I for one . . . . don't want to play semantics gotcha. . . .

I never stated any such thing pure fabricated fiction on your part. I spoke from my experience and so noted it ,never did I speak of all churches, you invented that idea all on your own.

Oakspear, there is an acronym that is relevant in this situation:

YHBT

In other words, You Have Been Trolled. WhiteDove is just trying to p*ss on any post concerning anything to do with Obama. Of course she is being ridiculous, and I'm sure she knows it. I also know she's not generally a troll, but is acting like one now. The best course of action is to just ignore posts like that, and maybe she will stop making ridiculous posts like that.

Actually I was expressing my opinion of our pesident as a comic book character. I know we are making a change to a new low in the presidential office, I just thought the man might have some dignity.

Speaking of new lows

The first 14 days.......

Two oops three cabinet member nominees under scrutiny for tax evasion

Kenedy and Richardson withdraw their names

5 major newspapers today call for withdrawal of Daschle

Latest gallop poll 38% of the people approve of the stimulus plan

10% of the people actually think it will do any good at creating jobs.

What a record of change......

EDIT FOR LATE BREAKING EDITION

Obama's Choice for Chief Performance Officer Withdraws Name

Nancy Killefer, the management consultant and former Treasury official who had been picked by President Obama to serve as the country's chief performance officer, has withdrawn from consideration for the post, White House officials confirmed this morning.

In a two-paragraph resignation letter, Killefer indicated that controversy over failure to pay taxes by two other high-profile nominees of Obama's had convinced her to decline the new president's request to join his administration. Killefer had a tax lien placed on her house by the D.C. government in 2005 because she had not paid unemployment taxes for her household help.

This cabinet just keeps getting better every moment.....what confidence they instill. yep thats change you can believe in.

Edit for more breaking news

Daschle makes a dash...... has withdrawn from consideration for the post in Obamas cabinet

Well another one of Obamas tax evader friends bites the dust that's two in one day

Anybody wonder why one person happens to know so many terrorists,race haters,and tax evaders or do you really think he just met them all at a party?

Marvel can't print comic books? Who says we need a comic book? I like Spider-Man. Marvel is in business to sell comic books, and apparently they are doing that.

Of course they can but it is doubtful we need our president looking like some kind of comic book character. but i guess that is part of the change program to bring less dignity to the office.

WD,

As much fun as it has been in the past to dispute "Words" with you. . . . your post and meaning were clear enough. I didn't misrepresent what you said. . . . I simply called you on it.

I think I pretty much know what I said and yoiur verrsion was not a factual representation of what i said.

I think it bothers me that what off shoots teach, separates their adherents from so many wonderful Christians, effectively keeping them contained and under the control of people who don`t bother to find out how to genuinely love and serve the people within their sphere of influence.

If you never leave because the churches are represented by your leaders as worthless, you will never see and be able to compare how genuine Christians love and treat one another.

The knowledge is worthless without the love :(

I know of no offshoot that has stated that churches are worthless. Nor have they controlled anyone from attending a church, had you read my previous post you would note that I attended a new one last week. I did so to compare just as you mentioned. I found social gospel and a cup of coffee. A nice building that is designed to pull in young people with flat screens and coffee bars and I'm ok your ok philosophy. It was tried and found wanting of biblical truth. I don't go to church looking for coffee I can buy my own thanks, nor looking for them to meet my needs in life, that's what jobs are for, I go for spiritual truth to be enlightened in the scripture, to be inspired by believers in the Bible not the number one on the best seller of Christian books.

Yeah Geisha, Great point, on behalf of the churches...I have to say I am offended by Dove`s perception of a place that he has never deigned to visit.

My smaller kids, and my teens and spouse and all of their friends attend a superb bible study every week. Kids come out from town. They are fired up and as dynamic as any fellowship I ever went to, and growing. The ladies in this same little country church raise money at a christmas craft bazzar every year. Guess who paid for my Dr. visit to the specialist when I couldn`t afford it last month?? Guess who took me all the way to Nashville, paid for the gas and took me to lunch afterwards? The retired minister with funds from these ladies. Because I asked?? Oh hell no, but because they found out that I was so terribly ill and unable to pay to even walk through the doors of the special clinic.

The same lady took my kid to the local college last week and introduced her to the people who can get her the money for scholarships and such. Guess who starts college in the fall courtesy of these folks?? Yeah, MY kid.

Thats just what they have done for me this month. Last weekend my teens were with this church helping build a house for a local family who lost everything in the last tornado. I heard recently about an innocent young woman sentenced to 30 years...she wasn`t even FROM this area, but came to this same ministers attention. She and people she knew fought for over 5 years and got the gal not only freed but exonerated and her children returned. We won`t even mention the cancer patient down the road that lives alone and is taken to her bi weekly treatments in Nashville.

Know what else? We are not even members of this church....I might attend a couple of times a year....but hey....thats what Christians do for one another.....as opposed to the posers that play at being Christians in so many of the groups that have their roots in twi.

Oh and think it`s a big metropolitan church with big dollars to burn?? There might be 25 active members.....and look at what they manage to accomplish, the lives impacted compared with twi and it`s millions, or the off shoots with their tens of thousands of members...What the hell good does their precious truth and doctrine that sets them apart REALLY do for anybody except make them arrogant and complacent and absolve them of any responsibility to REALLY act like a christian?

And how exactly would you know what I visit? She has no point to be made she failed to read the post correctly. I spoke of my experiace just as you have here, I also never said it applied to all churches that was her misquote. We were speaking of what makes offshoots havens and I believe it is scriptural teaching and likeminded fellowship . Truth and doctrine is greatly beneficial to the individual in living life. We have Obama to provide social programs for those who are in need of such.

ummm Dove, GSG's post was from the Onion. The stories in the Onion are made up, as in not true. They ARE funny, I will give George that, but they are not true stories and never have been. Not that this fact will change your disgust at the mere mention of the President.

Dude, your deep seated anger at Obama is gonna make for a long 4 years (or 8) for you. I wish you well in managing it. You have me concerned for your well being. Breathe man, it helps.

~HAP

My post was in reference to the first one not GSG's I have no deep seated anger ,I just think that our state in this country demands leadership and well researched plans of which I have not seen as of yet. So far it has been the liberal wish list in action. Gee I thought we elected a president not a comic book hero.

P.S. Thanks for your concern but rest assured that I'm enjoying every breath, with Obama-man in office I realize it just might be my last.

They don't need to abandon the Scriptures in order to love individuals with the love of Christ. As Geisha and Skyrider pointed out, there are some churches who study the Bible without "Selling" or "Cramming down unwilling throats" or any of the other techniques TWI practiced.

I don't recall such practices I think one was free to come or go as they pleased, I think the term was freely avail themselves to fellowship.

So we can't give a critique on the splinter groups unless we have been to them all. . . . . but we can go ahead and lump all mainstream churches together and so eloquently critique these???????

Sorry, what were the last 100 churches you were a member of? You should try it sometime. . . . they have bibles and teachers and they pray and everything.

Heck, they even know doctrine. It is rumored that some Christians even go to church.

I think it is fairly logical that one can not critique honestly something that they have not been a part of.

I believe you failed to read what I said..... I lumped nothing together and referenced nothing "as all."

Perhaps you missed these important parts of my post.

for the most part , For the most part at least in cases I have seen " ,IMHO"

As to offshoots I have stayed fairly in tune with what many are and have been doing through teachings weekly ,monthly, newsletters, personal communication ,books, and personal involvement. I can pretty much tell you with a fair degree of accuracy what the top 25 or so are up to over the last 19 years or so, despite the fact that I only live in Kansas. Some have online live hookups that you can login to as well.

I also make it a point to visit many churches note I did not say every church but a representation of most denominations, in fact last week I just attended a new one the Journey church here. It is a blue jeans and latte kind of church. People can sit out in the coffee shop and watch the service on flat screen televisions if they desire. The large hall adjacent to the auditorium has round tables and bar stools along with a coffee bar. I can personally attest to the fact that many of the churches around here as many I have read about in other places for the past few years have been deeply involved with the new best sellers like the Purpose Drivel Life, The Prayer of Jabez and other such books Not exactly Bibles or scripture. That's fine if free coffee and social commentary are what you want, I don't qualify that as scripture.

Just a thought. What exactly technically would be wrong with that, even if they did? What would be wrong with, actually loving individuals with what is supposed to be the love of Christ, instead of attempting to SELL (cram down the throat whether they actually need or want the said product) the person or persons one bible "help" such as one endless class or seminar after another?

All of the boasting of doctrinal superiority.. at best, we were spiritual (supposedly) GEEKS..

Had you read my post the answer to your question was in the following line to the one you quoted

Not that those are necessarily bad things just not at the sacrifice of scripture IMHO. I see many of these havens have progressed toward programs as the years and finances have allowed them. Again it is a matter of what you focus your ministry on some are more interested in soup kitchens than biblical teaching, I think there is a place for both .

Why would we need a comic book? Our economy is in shambles and our leader is concerned about some fantasy book . How prophetic this is of the next four years ,a comic book ,and the joke is on us.....more appropriatly the joke is in charge of us

How can I know if I want his answers or not if he never brings them out in the open?

Am I bothering him? I don't think so. He is, after all, the one who continues to broadcast and re-broadcast his PFAL infomercial.

Why advertise if you don't expect anyone to respond? Mike spends inordinate volumes of time and space pitching his product when he could simply answer a few simple questions and be done with it. I don't feel the least bit of sympathy. If he feels it's taking too much time, maybe he should rethink his priorities and be a bit less evasive.

Now what would you give for it?

Wait!!------There's more.

You have predetermined that his answer should be short. In order to do that you must then know the answer, otherwise you would have no idea if it was long or short. we can conclude from this that you already have the answer you wish to hear.

It's easy to fire off foolish questions designed to make someone type out a long time consuming answer for something that you admittedly have your short answer for. Which was the point, with several doing the same it is simply the circle game designed to silence him by trying to keep up.

My questions have all been very straightforward.

They are the type of questions that require short and to the point answers.

Perhaps if Mike didn't devote page after page after page to dodging them, he would have the time to answer them.

Your questions may have been straightforward and to you they may require a short answer ,possibly because you have decided the answer in advance and you think it's short, Mike may see it differently if you don't want his answer and already have yours as what you want to hear then why bother the man?

This following statement, on the CES/STF sub-forum, intrigues me:

Unlike churches.....that have local involvement, support groups, youth ministers, childrens' fellowship, etc. etc.......what is the "haven" that splinter groups offer? Are those "havens" of doctrine only?......i.e. "we teach same doctrine, same believer's meetings, same JCNG stuff, greek words, etc"??

From 1986-1989, how many went to these "haven" splinter groups??? THOUSANDS..!!!

By 2004, CES/STF is exposed as a "nose-spider, high prophetess, lawsuit filed" splinter group that went thru the 1990's embrasing Momentus and other crazy side-treks. Is that a "haven?"

Recently, reports are reaching GS that the Geerite group is diminishing as these "franchise/splinter leaders" do NOT want to pay the fees on geer's class contracts. Is this a "haven" that vanished.

In the end...........it seems like some people stayed in twi, some people left, some people jumped into a splinter group, some people never joined, some finally left twi, some saw the scam in CES and Cgeer.........and the "haven" is TRUST THE LORD AND BEWARE OF SCAMS.

<_<

I suppose it would depend on the group. Unless one has been involved with each of them all ,and there are a bunch, it is doubtful that one could intelligently offer a critique of them as a whole. I would say primarily that they are a doctrinal haven ,mainstream churches for the most part are social doctrine oriented. Each having it's own pattern of things they accept, some offer speaking in tongues some just wave their hands at you kinda like the tax preparer guys on the corner now. It would be rare to see the scripture as a center of doctrine as former way followers have been used to. For the most part at least in cases I have seen those that found haven in traditional church settings abandoned the scripture in favor of social or program driven ministries. Not that those are necessarily bad things just not at the sacrifice of scripture IMHO. I see many of these havens have progressed toward programs as the years and finances have allowed them. Again it is a matter of what you focus your ministry on some are more interested in soup kitchens than biblical teaching, I think there is a place for both . Do we all need to be the same? One not affiliated with the way Truth for Today has been around for some time they are a more scriptural based study group , of course that comes from a group of authors like Bullinger, Welch and others way believers were familiar with.

Define "soon", please

Typical response........ In case you have not noticed their are at least 6 of you posting one to two posts a day just in the last pages of this thread. There is one Mike which I'm sure you are grateful for . Have you considered the time invested in trying to keep up with several questions from several posters? Like his answers or not why don't you give the man a break to answer, or is that the point just to harass someone in numbers.

sixteen hours, seven minutes..

What, your having a squirrel?

A Shelter Dog asks God...

Author: Joan C. Fremo

Dear God,

What is "Time"?

I hear the sadness in the voices of workers here.

They say my "Time is up", that they have to make room for yet another dog.

My "Time" is up.

I don't know what that means, God.

I only know that my new friends are so sad, and the more I wag my tail... the harder I try to make them feel better...

The sadder they become.

I know I have heard that word "Time" before, but I don't understand.

When I was younger, my people would say "Time to play!" They would throw the ball, and I would run fast.

Sometimes I brought it back to them, but other times we'd end up chasing each other having fun.

I remember "Time to eat".

My people would put down a bowl of food, and I would enjoy dinner, wagging my tail in joy.

There was also "Time for your walk".

My boy would put my leash on, and we would go walking together, visiting the neighborhood and enjoying each other's company.

When I was younger I thought "Time" meant fun.

Or maybe Love?

I don't understand.

"Time" must mean something else, but how can it change, God?

Before I came here, I heard my people say, "No time to feed you now, boy.

Later, when I get home."

Sometimes my family would forget, and there was no food in my bowl.

Does "Time" mean when my belly hurts?

My people said there was no time for walks.

I tried to hold it all day long-- but God, I just couldn't anymore.

When I finally had to go, it made my family very angry.

Does "Time" means anger? Or maybe Loneliness?

My family said they didn't have "Time".

They didn't have time to play, or time to take me to the vet, or time to go for walks.

They didn't have "Time", so they brought me here.

Maybe I was right... They said they didn't have time, and if "Time" means Love, how did they lose it?

Did I do something wrong?

God, I think my new friends are sending me to you.

Do you have "Time"?

May I sit on the couch?

Am I a good Dog, God?

Is it "Time"?

=========================================

One of the most important things we can give our Pets is "Time". The time to love them, care for them, and train them.

Animal Shelters and Humane Societies across the country are filled with Pets whose families didn't have "Time".

Every year, the "Time is up" for 12 million companion Pets.

Do you have the "Time" to make a difference?

Getting Wasted...... I just can't seem to wrap my mind around that as an ambitious goal. But then I guess I remember when I was a teenager once too.

Perhaps you should pose that question to the government agencies who dropped the ball in New Orleans.

Make sure to include the racist overtones.

They seemed to be able to get to the party all by their lonesome so I guess ir had nothing to do with the goverment when they wanted to.

I wonder how can nearly 2 million blacks get into Washington DC in sub zero temps in 1 day when 200,000 couldn't get out of New Orleans at 85 degrees with four days notice?

He also did The Abundant Life video

What a cool story. I'm glad that Bella lives where stray dogs can find a new life, not as shark bait. There is another lesson, rescued animals are among the most loyal there are the have been given a second chance at life and I believe that they know it. They never forget any kindness toward them if you are a human or an elephant ,and will be a friend for life.