WhiteDove

Read my edited response White Room - you need to get something to mellow you down some

Still waiting for you to prove the claim was correct.......... Or is this your idea of a rebuttal no intelligent argument 1st grade names. Gee is this how you teach Math?

Jonny -Teacher how do I know if this math formula is correct?

RUMMY - No matter I won't proove it ,I'll just call you a name that will answer the question.......

Gosh.. can I get my remote to switch to your channel, WD? What is it? "Prove-this-Central"?

Gee so I proved the point but rather than admit it you want to change the subject? Typical......

WTH does this mean?

I experienced the Towers missing because I visited the site on my last visit. Are you telling me that that is less credible than a video?

Uhhhh.. So you would believe one of those shows that have some pic of a ghost just because they caught it on tape?

Step away from the bong... step away from the bong.... slowly...

No it's equal both arrived at the truth , I just did not need to be there to arrive at it. My point exactly.

You have always liked to play both sides of the fence, White Dove.

You do know that there is a difference between actual experiential knowledge and knowledge that comes from a mediated experience, don't you?

Oh wait... maybe you don't.

Sorry...

If you went WOW or were in the Corps or any other experience then you would already know that it's much different than just hearing about it or watching a 35 MM film on the subject...or attending a meeting to get you to "Go NOW!"

Either it is true or it it not period , since I have yet to see anyone prove different information I have posted on events ,I'd say the record speaks for itself. By the way here is something else to chew on I've read more than a few posts here where those in residence have stated that they did not have a clue what was going on. So what did I miss obviously their experiance did not help them one bit? It seems I did know what was going on, Yep you guessed it All the way in Kansas. I'd submit being geographically present (actual experiential knowledge) apperantly did not get the job done....... I often knew things going on at Emporia before those who were there did, when visiting I'd ask about so and so , they had no clue.....

Lol...there are people with access to the very same *factual* information that you had dove, who have come to a very different conclusion....that instead, that the us gvt in a secret plot actually blew up the building internally.

Your *factual* information is not enough to call into question the veracity and credibility of the people posting of their experiences.

My factual information tells me the buildings are no longer there where they once were. I believe that is correct, Case closed......I did not need to be there to know that. People posting of their experiences, are no different than people telling me their's. One is no more credible than the other.

You are a joke White Dune - you have no idea about reading or your posts would be more intelligible - I suspect you are able to read - but you are mostly illiterate - good night sweet pea - dream on in your acid induced dreams of Vic, Vinnie et al

Honest and Truly White Dove - I really appreciate the entertainment you provide to sane people - much better than cable TV.

Lots of talk but no substance ...I'm guessing because you have none to offer. Other than 1st grade name calling. Gee what A big boy we are..... I'll be waiting for proof of your claims , Oh by the way you can find the quote in the book as well ...Happy looking......

Sorry Dove, that makes absolutely no sense.

Sorry that makes perfect sense the standard is the same for all....

If I have to be present to be credible then you also must be the same. Were you there at the funeral NO, at the crimes No. you have no more credibility than you claim I have. Yet you feel inclined to tell us what someone said or did.

You apparently have a problem with people holding you accountable. It simply is not credible for you to deny the experiences, teachings, standards that people were held to in various programs, in other states, at different time periods, having never been a participant yourself, and having only been in one small geographic area.

No I have a problem with false assumptions. I denied no experiances ,simply asked for a claim to be documented just as everyone else is required to do. You want to dodge the question because you know as usual I know what I am speaking of ,before I open my mouth, you know I am right, so does DWBH. It just chaps your bu tt that I am , smart enough to see BS all the way in Kansas......

Sorry, that is how it is. Sorry that chaps your bu tt. That does not make it right for you to relentlessly troll through the forums, looking for a reason to try to destroy the credibility and try to call into question the veracity of the people who DID participate, who DO want to discuss the events experienced.

Well if the poster stated claims that are not true then I guess the speaker has destroyed their own credibility...... now didn't they . What A laugh, speaking of making no sense..

DO you not think that every damned one of us don`t wish that we had been permitted to enjoy your idyllic twi experiences? That we don`t wish with all of our hearts that twi was as you portrayed it??? What you do is mean and disruptive, no matter how you justify it to yourself.

No it is telling truth not made up BS........

Remind us again White Dune why it is that you believe that the World Trade Towers went down even though you WERE NOT THERE!!! JEEEZUZZ dude - get a marginally functioning brain - and please NEVER enroll in one of my math or logic classes - All wayisms aside, and solely based on your posts, you would no longer pass a HS logic class. But hey - NP - I was never known as an easy math professor.

I guess you were never known as one who could read either......

I think I pretty much did, factual information the same kind that is available on any subject. One does not need to be present to be in the know, one only has to access information that is factual.

Incorrect how? Which assumptions?

If geographical presence is the standard for which one is credible to speak then it should remain the same for all pro or con. Like or dislike for the person ,event ,organization ect. should not be a factor. You asked if I agreed with that I did , IF that is the standard. Personally I think that is a flawed standard. And most likely would decrease the posts here dramatically. While personal presence is certainly advantageous ,it is not the only means to know what is factual. Case in point I was not present in NY when the towers fell ,but there is a vast amount of video, newspaper articles, magazines ,TV, internet, and so forth to give one a factual picture of what occurred. Personal accounts coupled with hard evidence when compiled makes one qualified to speak with accuracy even all the way from Kansas.

Remind me again how you know what Mrs. Wierwille said at a funeral that YOU were not at?

How desperately sad :(

Doreen, if there is one thing that I have learned through the years, it is that God will work through people to help us when we cannot or will not hear him. Some times it takes a variety of people, and time, but I don`t believe he ever gives up on us....Never doubt that what you do will have impact.

Dove, how typical to try to drag this whole thread off topic by taking one comment out of dozens to attack a poster. It could have been taken pt, if you believe that a poster is mistaken. I haven`t read Mrs. W`s book, but I DO know that at least one poster said of her that on the very day of VPW`s funeral...Mrs. said to the people present that very thing...that *he was a mean mean man*

She said it, whether it was in book or witnessed at vp`s funeral...

No that was the topic... Read it DWBH made a claim, I simply asked for him to do that which is required of everyone else substantiate his claim. I guess if it's anti way the rules change ,how is it not attacking a poster when the shoe is on the other foot? We are required to prove claims made, the standard should be the same for all. Do we get the luxury of of replying PT no, we are challenged, and generally by a pack, on the thread. Why do you think the rules should change for some? As to your other claim I believe that a poster was told by someone else that occurred. Another fact that is not substantiated firsthand as you like to claim. By the way you were not there so you have no right to claim what Mrs. Wierwille said ,you don't know, isn't that your story , if you were not there you are not qualified to speak? or does that blow with the wind of BS like everything else? It's a simple question Yes or No is it there in print?

prove me wrong in everything i've ever posted here about your "father in the word", victor paul wierwille........prove me wrong about everything i've ever posted about craig martindale, rosalie rivenbark, chris geer, et al......prove you were personally present with me at every incident, situation, or confrontation i had with anyone you seek to "exonerate".......prove to me anything you say is worth a response of honesty, sincerity, compassion, and actual fact......prove to me you know what you're talking about because you were there, or because you experienced with me everything i've posted.............peace.

I made no claim that you were wrong in everything that you posted. I simply asked for documentation regarding the quote you stated as true. I made it as simple as I could for you...Either it is or it is not there. You can respond or not, your choice it's your integrity and honesty that is at stake ,you made the claim not me. The print will tell who was correct. Yes? You may be correct , let's see......

What you mean "we"?

We - those with common sense,Oh and can read, to look at a book and see the absence/or proof of such a claim. Pretty simple either it exists or not!

How's about YOU read it and then YOU provide documentation of quote, page number and chapter?

prove me wrong in everything i've ever posted here about your "father in the word", victor paul wierwille........prove me wrong about everything i've ever posted about craig martindale, rosalie rivenbark, chris geer, et al......prove you were personally present with me at every incident, situation, or confrontation i had with anyone you seek to "exonerate".......prove to me anything you say is worth a response of honesty, sincerity, compassion, and actual fact......prove to me you know what you're talking about because you were there, or because you experienced with me everything i've posted.............peace.

Not my claim, as I remember it is the burden of the claimer here to prove their claims othewise we will assume it for what it is fabricated BS. The question stands DWBH I seemed to have missed that part in her book, I'd like to read it could you provide documentation of quote? page number? chapter? .

Ask her why, in dotsie's "biography" of her "man-o-gawd" hubby, she unabashedly stated that "he was a mean man"......

DWBH I seemed to have missed that part in her book, I'd like to read it could you provide documentation of quote? page number? chapter?

A factual picture?...You mean to tell me that you never went wow or were in the corps but you have a "factual picture"???

You have no experiencial knowledge but you do have a "factual picture"? "Geographical presence" has nothing to do with it...plain and simple...you never experienced these programs...Therefore, you have no credibility whatsoever when it comes to understanding what actually happened to those of us who DID go through these programs...

Actually you are incorrect in your assumptions.

Ironic but darned entertaining Waysider. Think of it - no cable fees - no movie tickets and expensive popcorn - etc. White Dove posts some of the most entertaining faulty pseudo-logic on this entire site. And... to make it even better he will always rise to the bait. Tell him the sky is blue - he'll have a correction for you about red sunsets - tell him you think vince hooligan is a tramp and he will tell you how vince is a true believer and carries on the light of justice etc etc etc.

White Dove has missed his true calling. He should have been a stand up comedian who pretended to take himself seriously - oh uhh that's right ...that's what he is now... meanwhile I am entertained immensely for free...

What? was the running busines slow and you broke into the case today?

Interesting how you can say it but not hear it when the shoe is on the other foot.

I hear just fine actually the question you asked was .........

QUOTE (waysider @ Mar 26 2009, 09:17 PM)

Should this same standard apply to those who never experienced communal life in The Way?

to which my response was.......

Obviously ,that was the point if one applies then so should the same from the other side of the argument.

If geographical presence is the standard for which one is credible to speak then it should remain the same for all pro or con. Like or dislike for the person ,event ,organization ect. should not be a factor. You asked if I agreed with that I did , IF that is the standard. Personally I think that is a flawed standard. And most likely would decrease the posts here dramatically. While personal presence is certainly advantageous ,it is not the only means to know what is factual. Case in point I was not present in NY when the towers fell ,but there is a vast amount of video, newspaper articles, magazines ,TV, internet, and so forth to give one a factual picture of what occurred. Personal accounts coupled with hard evidence when compiled makes one qualified to speak with accuracy even all the way from Kansas.

No Dove, what I DID was discuss why I would never deem the man or any man that was an off shoot leader or ex twi leader who hadn`t genuinely repented and apologized as unworthy of trust, Their doctrine makes what they did ok, they`re forgiven by God, nothing else matters, it`s in the past.etc....anyone who speaks of it is a liar of back biter.....Scripturaly, spiritually however, I don`t believe that is accurate. It is a huge indication and a big red flag indicating a lack of change where it matters the most.

I never claimed to know him or be in his presence. I never claimed to be on par with Jesus, I only pointed out when oldies tried to accuse us of back biting and gossip that Jesus did the same thing in his day.

Now, that is how I see things, that is my opinion on this subject, I would appreciate being allowed to present my pov, without it being used as a spring board for nastiness based on every other thing that you detest about me, ok?

And you had your opportunity to do just that , and I have mine, to point out my opinion that 1. you don't know if he has or has not repented ,because you don't know what he is doing by your own admission. and 2. you were not there, the mantra you demand from me needs to apply to you as well in your observations, if that is the standard for logic you are going to throw out there. and 3. Jesus did not do what you are doing he knew of that which he spoke, a large difference, He did not ask a Trinitarian who most likely in the interest of disclosure has a problem with a organization and it's followers that printed a book on Jesus Christ is not God for a fair assessment of what they are is doing. Nor a former MOG that was fired from his cush job and relies on his 20 year old memory of how things are. No Jesus knew the state of affairs before he opened his mouth. This has not a thing to do with you personally just clearing up the record of facts.

IMHO it is called a conscience. . . with the 20 year time and distance being able to distinguish between right and wrong. . . having a moral code or ethical standard upon which to base one's opinions.

It does sting when someone stands up and says "Gee, this is wrong". . . but, it is worse when they actually have the ethics on their side. NOT continuing in the same false religious circles adds credence to DWBH's words.

That shows some essemblance of morality.

That is what makes his posts credible for goodness sake.

Oh, but Lord forbid we call em like we see em!! Might actually offend an ex-faithful.

Sometimes the blurred lines here. . . are too reminiscent and down right creepy.

TWI was and remains an abusive cult. . . the offshoots. . . have their roots in and founders FROM this abusive cult. I don't care what flavor of the month aberrant faith they practice. . .whatever they "Pick" is going to come from these same. . . . rotten blind roots.

Well that is certainly one possibility , I can think of a few others. Of course you would think there is credibility to one's posts that agree with a one sided agenda. If your criteria is it agrees with what I like to hear, some people will believe anything.

Dove, your rant makes no sense whatsoever. Sorry, I think that either you are reading a lot of things into my posts that were never intended, or being deliberately ugly. This mix and match parsing of quotes made to different posters concerning different topics, together to manufacture a false premiss on which to attack in some kind of weird *gotcha* game is not honest, nor a very good representation of what you claim to stand for.

Nice try, but actually the topics and context was the same VF. your words ,you don't know the man yet you seem to want to pontificate on what he is ,does ,or stands for. You were not there you don't know.

Should this same standard apply to those who never experienced communal life in The Way?

Obviously ,that was the point if one applies then so should the same from the other side of the argument.

It's quite ironic, I think, how indignant you, yourself, become when people call your attention to your own lack of personal involvement in programs like the Way Corps, WOW and Fellow Laborers. And yet, you insist you know what must have gone on in those programs even though you admit you never participated in those programs or even beyond the local level. Kinda looks like the pot calling the kettle black.

Actually your conclusion is incorrect. But none the less the standard should remain the same for all. These who have invested no time in VF ministry really have nothing to speak of. It's a guess based on a Trinitarians view of the the Way.

Dove, your post and your accusations make absolutely no sense. Try reading WHAT I said IN the context written and comment on that instead of parsing sentences together made to different posters about different subjects in order to manufacture something I never said nor intended in order to attack me. Please, it is only honest.

Makes perfect sense You invoke Jesus as some proof you know what you are speaking of yet you admit you don't. Exactly how many hours or years have you followed what VF is doing? And yet unlike Jesus who you seem to wanna hold up as like you , you aren't you have no idea what he is doing. And were you personally involved ? Were you there? By your own admission no. So what gives you the right to speak with any authority? Isn't that your argument or does in only apply one way?

what is the purpose of a thread like this om, or mark clarke?.........why do you feel it necessary to burden the greasespot with yet another unabashed promo for a former twi "bigshot" who, in your opinion, somehow merits acceptance, approval, or recognition for having "moved on" in a direction that you think is meritorious?.......

Probably for the same reason that you post here time and again your personal rants about..... Gee just about everyone. And how you, who somehow escaped and have become the poster boy for how to do it. Yeah we get it you are the man with all the answers, you can enlighten us on how everyone else is doing, all from your keyboard and your 20 year old memories. What's you purpose for burdening us with yet another of your self righteous lectures? Does it still sting that you did not make it in the religious circle and they did?

It isn`t gossip or back biting if it is true. Otherwise I suppose Jesus is as guilty as all us bad old Greasespotters for talking about pharacees and saducees, in other words, creeps that hurt people in God`s name.

You tell him that he is a back biter or a gossip ....lol

Just another good sounding excuse to get people to shut up about information and experiences that makes one uncomfortable, imo.

Indeed ....and that If is a big difference

I'll just add right about here a small fact, Jesus knew the truth about the Pharisees and Sadducees before he opened his mouth and spoke .

Let me bring to memory your own admissions........

This isn't about taking swipes at VF because he was a big shot...I never knew him,

I have no idea if he has repented or not,

I would think that if one has any character at all, he would be acknowledging the wrongs of his teacher, apologizing for damage inflicted, and start all over again from scratch. NOT trying to hide the truth so that what he personally wishes to believe and promulgate appears to have merit. Until then, as far as I can see....he does not deserve our respect, nor his doctrine consideration, and frankly, as far as I am concerned he is not much better than any of the the other leaders that used the scriptures to steal that which was never theirs to begin with, to excuse them from their spiritual responsibilities, and moral duty, to deny personal responsibility and accountability....no matter how sanitized his version of the so called truth.

And yet you ,unlike Jesus admittedly don't know of what you speak and yet you feel inclined to offer such gossip or back biting from your lack of knowledge. So let me get this straight now not only is he to apologize to your satisfaction and terms here ,for his own self ,but also now for someone else as well. Do you hold yourself to the same standard ? Have you come here and listed everyone you have ever wronged ,every sin are they listed? and do you apologize for others as well?

all of this "discussion" doesn't change much of the facts though.. we have an (apparently) recalcitrant, unrepentant vp bootlicker who, in lieu of "straightening things out" (as if they even could be..) just moving on to another flock..

I'd LIKE to believe different.. but the facts don't quite bear that out..

Really ? Exactly how many facts have you personally discussed. Or do you just believe what you hear. How much time have you invested in actually looking at what he does or does not do? Doctrine aside how familiar are you with what he does day to day for others? How many of their materials have you read or heard where he discusses what he thinks? No you took your facts from a person not even involved ,who has an obvious agenda with the Way and any of it's people and accepted his sideline comments as facts. Oh and then there is DWBH who based his comments on what he knew some 20 years ago, so I'll ask you, are you the same person that you were 20 years ago? Do you feel the same about the Way as you did? I'd guess not, so why would you accept as facts someone's recollection of what someone was 20 years ago as factual as to what they are today?

Yep, just keep telling yourself that. . . .

Naw I don't have to I can just read it .........

Perhaps if you find someone who looked at Dr. Wierwille as a replacement for Christ... confessed him as Lord, then for that person, VPW was Lord. But I don't know of anyone who made VPW Lord and Saviour.

It simply is a fraudulent theory... intellectual gobbledygook and dishonesty at its lowest.

Your we is getting smaller by the minute. Perhaps you might want to rethink your claim, or you could keep telling yourself that the obvious is not true.