newlife

My prayers and condolances For your loss....I know God is giving you comfort, and peace, and healing for your life.

It's never easy when these things happen. Thank God we have the Hope of His return and an eternity of being with him and seeing our loved ones again. What a day that will be.....Peace be to you

So very sorry for your loss...and indeed it appears it was a huge loss to your life. He sounds like he was a wonderful, loving, giving person that God put in your life as a Gift. I'm so very thankful you had him in your life. Thankful you were able to see all the wonderful things that you saw in him. The good memories will remain with you a life time and then you will see him Face to Face..God has given us this hope for the future, for an eternity.

Very Tragic indeed.....I'm so sorry for your son's loss and your loss. Situations such as this is never easy for anyone, but I believe it is especially difficult for people that were in TWI.....

My prayers are with you and your son for the healing of your heart and emotions.....God Bless you and Keep you in the Palms of His Hands.....And give you peace.

Great topic.....thanks! When I left TWI I had a part time job and I would come home to this rocking chair and rock and think about my life.

I was devistated, completely. I felt like the best years were lost...the years where people developed their careers, had families.

I was out WOW, Doing classes, running a fellowship. Before I went into TWI I wanted to be a music teacher. After TWI, I didn't get a degree, but I had opportunities to teach some lessons, even directed a choir for a period of time and played for a short time in a band. Two years ago I ended doing music totally just because I felt it was time to do that.

I had always wanted to write a book since HS...and of course that never happened in TWI. Last summer, I wrote my first small novel and I have just continued to write. I have a mentor now, a university professor, and I am writing plays. Who Knew? Certainly not I. But, I'm loving this new area of interest. It's like a hobby for me.

I only know that I had to let go of the past, let go of what might have been, and just reach for the future, even though I had no idea what the future was suppose to look like.

We "get" each other. We know the wounds, the hurts and this is a great place for healing. We can talk about whatever we want to talk about, get support, love and acceptance.

I wish you well in your journey of life.....it's worth it.

Oh Gosh, how horrible. I knew Cheryl Dahl really well, in fact lived with her at one time but have lost track of her. Do you know where she is now????

I trust that any one who reads the book will receive insight and healing for your lives like it did for me.

Be sure and post and let me know.

I had to start a topic on this after reading a book called, "Matters of the Heart" by Danielle Steel. I HIGHLY recommend this book to anyone who has been in TWI. I could relate to the "thinking" of the main character. I saw myself in the book. I could relate to decision making that the main character went through.

The confusion that eventually clouded the thoughts to the point of not knowing reality.

I could see myself in the beginning of my stint in TWI thinking something is amiss here, but not really knowing what exactly. Seeing the red flags go up, but rationalizing why they were not true or eventually completely ignoring them. Pulled in by love and then going through various times of thinking maybe I should leave, but then staying because of what I thought was love. The thinking that if I left, I would be lost without TWI. Having other people outside tell me what they were seeing, but always taking up for TWI even though there were doubts and questions. Just so many things in this book brought a lot of things into a clear picture of my involvement. I thought it might help some others as it has me.

I've been out for 25 years now. When I left I was pretty much a mess and didn't believe that even God could put me back together I was so far gone. I was angry, confused, disliking myself and pretty much everyone else. But now, 25 years later I am so not the person I was, but I have been put back together and have a reasonably happy life today. But, it's moments like reading this book, that the picture of what happened to me becomes even more clearer and vivid.

Many posts here, many people here, have been a part of my recovery. And I thank you all. This has been a place where I could read your stories and relate to them and know it wasn't Just me that had gone through it. And I can't tell you how many days I spent in TWI wondering what is wrong with me and thinking no one else was going through what I was going through. I'm very thankful for your openness and honesty because it has been a huge part of my healing.

I know now that no matter how bad of a state you think you are in, there is always hope of healing.

I have been out of TWI for 26 years now, and you know what song I found running through my head this afternoon? A song that went something like, "Speak the Word, Speak the Word (let it be heard) Speak the word, Speak the word....I speak the Word every day " By New Horizon.....and I stopped and said, now where did that come from??? I had not been thinking TWI, I had not been singing songs from the ministry. I was just walking down the hallway and suddenly it just started playing in my mind. So TWI stuff crops up in my mind ever so often, mostly at my surprise. Mostly it doesn't Hold my mind any more, but it certainly is not totally without a visit now and then.

To get back on topic though, I think the deception came to me in the form of "Love". And I agree with what one said about VP not setting out to be what he became...

I hear these naked stories and I am astounded. I guess I was so low on the totem pole I never heard or was involved. I feel for those who were....abuse is a terrible thing.

People from CES committed suicide too? I didn't know that.....where does it end?

This is so very sad to have read about these people. Most I had not heard about. Who else took their own lives?

My heart just aches over these people.

I'm glad you posted this, as others need to hear about these tragedies and maybe save their own lives.

Thanks EX

It is affiliated with Chris Geer. It's called STL bible fellowship. We do ABS as we did in twi and every offshoot we ever regularly attended. But if we ever needed help with something, these folks have never shown a hint of a condescending attitude, unlike twi.

I would like more information on this if you have any....you can PI me. Thanks!

After I had been in TWI for a period of time, I thought I would be a lifer. I felt like it was a "home", and that I had actually found the path God wanted me to be on, as I had always thought I would be a missionary of some sort. So I remember saying to myself, "This is it"....this is what God wants me to do. It never occurred to me that there would ever be a time when I would not be in TWI...it was a "given" to me that I would be committed for life. Definitely a different type of commitment....it was to God and not TWI......however, as the years rolled along the line between God and the ministry grew to be really distorted and hard to distinguish between one and the other.....until I think I listened and heeded TWI more than I did God....A bad place to find yourself in. For me, it's been about getting back to God being God in my life.

Just out of curiosity Johniam...what offshoot were you speaking about?

I know I felt like I became a totally different person when I was in TWI. I became just like whoever it was that I had as leadership. Sometimes, I think in the beginning, it was a survival mechanism. It became a solution to me.

I know I got tired of being yelled at and told I was possessed. So, I learned how to "imitate" people, found out the right phrases to use. And I definitely became exactly what I didn't want to be. I, too, feel for the people I hurt and hope they have healed. When I left, I prayed for them for a long time. Crazy making stuff. I am so glad that I got some help and healed myself...praises to God.

Well, at first I threw everything out.....hard to read the bible...but figured I would go the opposite of what WI taught. One extreme to another, I've learned is never the answer for me. I've been to churches, probably bought every known bible in the world to "search" for truth. I was terribly confused. I listened to this preacher and that one. Anything that was "spiritual" I investigated. Still confused. And what happened was a found a very simple approach finally....that is the practical application of principles from the word. Kindness, forgiveness, not thinking evil, helping someone else, Not thinking about me all the time, (the universe doesn't revolve around me in other words), Gratitude, tolerance are among the many things that I found I needed to apply in my life. Humbleness instead of being egotistical that I know everything is another good one. So, I set out and started just to examine my own life and apply principles I found in the word....my life started getting better and better...not that the outside life changed so much, but the inside of me started changing for the better. And I still put practical application high on my list to be aware of every single day in my life....I ask myself how am I doing today? Now recently, some of the teachings I learned years ago have come back into my life. With a new perspective and new "eyes" I am again relearning some of the things I once knew but threw out. It looks totally different to me now. The bible said "Knowledge Puffeth up".....I was all puffed up believe me. So, for me there has to be a balance.....doctrine and practical application. What good is it if I can't put it into my living on a daily basis. But what a process....tough, rewarding, sometimes frustrating, but I am so glad to be where I am today....very thankful to God for what He has done in my life. I know the journey will continue and my eyes will be opened wider....and they will finally be totally opened at the Return.

I really did miss an area of "faking it"......and that was to the outside world, especially to family and friends.

I had lots of people tell me it was a "cult" do not get involved. A minister I knew really tried to almost "scare" into not getting into it, which pushed me further into defending it. My parents, especially my mother was very fearful and upset about my involvement. But, you know I just "faked" really, really, being happy. That it was not harmful to me or to others. That it was a God's Word and God's ministry...that Everything was on the up and up. And really, I did not fully believe what I was saying. I was skeptical, and questioning things and at times in the beginning after taking the class, feeling like there was something "wrong" here, but I just didn't know what it was at the time. But I would have never told that to anyone, in or out of TWI

I was faking in TWI and I was faking it to the outside world. I was being two different people.....one for the outside to see and one that was the inner me.

I lost my friends on the outside, and my family pretty much didn't trust me anymore.

Simply put, I faked it a lot! I think it kind of turned into a survival tool...

I'm just wondering if I have any "Family" here that did the same thing when I say, Many times I faked it until I made it in TWI. There were Times when I would hear a teaching and go "huh?" And I might of asked "someone" and maybe even two "someones" and even if I still did not understand, I wouldn't ask any more. Then when that teaching was taught and someone would say, Isn't that fantastic? I say, Yea, it was great!! Or, I remember learning one way to really Please leadership was to say, "I feel so honored to be able to have you as my limb Leader....and later when I was slaving away at the limb I would say, I just feel so blessed to be able to be here and work at the limb for our man of God...I consider it an honor". And I remember one leader saying, "well, that's the right attitude" All the while I was like wanting to say are you kidding me? I love working here....not!! There are many other examples, but I would like to hear examples of your experience if you did the same thing.

For me it was a "survival" and an "acceptance" tool I was using. I wanted to be "approved" by leadership and others. I wanted to fit in and be loved. And so I started faking it many times, cause I didn't want to be the one to get into trouble. I wasn't being honest, but it's the only thing I knew to do at the time...honesty never entered my head

Maybe I am the only one to have faked it, but I'm guessing probably not. What's your specific experiences???

I know you are all talking "music"...and I am a musician. I have been in several praise and worship teams and now am not.

In the years I was, the understanding I got from them is you sing over and over again to invoke the presence of God and to welcome the Holy spirit. Your singing actually brings the spirit of God to the service. A couple of the worship leaders said it was their job to lead the people into the presence of God and into the throne of God. One place I went to was really into that concept and it got very uncomfortable in that place and I just could not do it any more. I've seen people, as people have said, get a "dose" of the holy spirit of God and it affects them.

I've had many experiences in this and decided it is not for me. That there is something that happens spiritually when the praise and worship music goes on and on and on in repetition that raises all kinds of red flags for me. Give me the "Sing Along the Way".

Each to his own though, if you like it (praise and worship) and enjoy it and it enriches your relationship with God....keep listening and singing.

I took the class because I had totally screwed my life up. Growing up in a family that was not functional, having been adopted and other sorted details which I won't bore you with, I went to college and started drinking and partying. It was fun for awhile. But, then I noticed I had trouble concentrating, my school work went down the tubes and I suddenly realized the dream I had of being a teacher was diminished and I didn't know how to "fix" myself. In my senior year, I was standing on the quad and thinking, how did this happen to me? I hadn't graduated, my friends had, they had jobs, I didn't....I was a mess....when someone walking by me handed me a pamphlet on God. That jogged my memory to when I used to go to church as a kid. And I said to myself, God is my solution. Only God can put my life together (which has always been true and any given time). I had become suicidal etc.......so I prayed that when i would get a job that there would be someone who could teach me about God and help.

I found that not only was there just one, there was 13 of them.....all reading the same book, "Power for Abundant Living" and when I asked if they knew about God, that was an open door. I was like, Thank you God, Thank-you!! I signed up for the class and couldn't wait for it to start.

I was in TWI for 13 years, and I would say that at least 9 or 10 of those years, it was good for me. I quit drinking, got my finances straightened out, and thought I had found the perfect family that I never had.

But things started going south....and because everyone here already knows the story, I'll refrain from it.

For me, it was the Best of times and the Worst of Time.

RUN!!!!!

I just have a question....Was BJ Leonard a trinitarian?

I thought that John 10:10 was talking about material abundance the way that VP talked about it too.

But, when I reread it after leaving, I decided that it was talking about eternal life....had nothing to do with material abundance at all.

My Personal take on it.....

I just want to say, "thanks".......GS has been a huge and I mean Huge, part of my healing process. I've met some fantastic people who have helped me in this process. If it hadn't been for GS I would have been cut off from the contribution of so many people in time of needing help.

God Bless you Paw.......

Thanks for all of your comments on the Book......

Tom, especially appreciated your posts. It is the way it was meant to be I believe. "The Church" is suppose to be on the move....people involved with people, sharing, giving, etc. and everyone following Christ and doing and going where he directs.

Amazed Tom about how TWI was in the beginning....interesting how it went down.

I hope everyone that reads the book enjoys the "freedom". I did.......

There are so many good things in this book, it's hard to name them all.......But basically, it's about a minister who runs into this guy and overhears him talking to a small group of people who had been discussing religion. And the guy makes a statement, "If you only knew him" or something like that. Anyway, This guys name is John and the minister kind of connects him to the John in the Bible. They meet and John says a few things to the minister and he starts to ponder them. In the minister's church, you get the behind the scenes situations that are going on....which the congregation doesn't know anything about. And John enters this minister's life at certain points to show him What religion really is vs a free relationship with God. And how from the time the children attend Sunday School certain things are starting to formulate how they think. It's about the journey of this minister outside of church. The book is mind provoking. It really helped me see some and ponder things I never thought of before. I highly recommend it, especially for those who have been in TWI.....It just kind of prepares you more for what to look for to save your spiritual life. Want to add anything to this Shellon???

No, he does not make you want to go to church.....This book is actually about insight into the church and it's bondage that holds people....VERY insightful....

I took tried a million churches and couldn't stay in them. This book will make you glad you didn't and it will also give you insight into what you got out of..TWI. It will give you lots to think about.....

It's a great book......as Shellon has said.