newlife

After reading what you wrote and looking at it from an outsider view....I'm just telling you what I see....it may be right, it may be wrong....I'm not claiming any expertise.

You said you were WC. Being WC it was pretty much drilled into your head that you had a higher calling than most. I don't know you so maybe you were even ordained. Part of what I think is really trashing your joy is that you feel like you aren't really fulfilling your "calling". That God had put you on a path with Godly purpose So you feel guilty about it...You feel you should be doing something "more spiritual" for God. Now you aren't on that path, but instead going back to your music. Maybe he's putting you on the path he had for you to be on ORIGINALLY, but you took a left turn there for a few years. (we all did)

You sound like you are extremely talented and gifted. Though set aside for a while, I believe God has restored your vision for your future. I played music before TWI...and I had a horrible time getting back into it. I had just "lost" the passion I had for it...but God Brought people back into my life that helped me regain that area. I played for many years, sometimes even in bands....and in the last year have gotten away from it in favor of writing. Another thing I was doing before TWI and now it's my vision for myself.

What an opportunity you have and what friends you have to be there for you. Connections like that just don't happen every day by coincidence. Jump into it and have fun. There's great healing in it for you!!!! And there's great freedom.

PTSD....we all have it I think!!! It messes with us.

The wisest thing I could tell you is, "Give it Time" and in the meantime keep going forward with it...keep walking through the open doors, keep playing....and one day it will be as natural to you and bring such joy in your life, you'll not know why you ever felt guilty about it.

I spoke in tongues BEFORE I got involved with TWI...And I still Speak in Tongues. Not as much as I did in TWI...but There are times when I especially do....like if I am having trouble going to sleep. I speak in tongues and every time, I then just drift off into sleep. I speak in tongues when I am in a situation and I don't know what to do about something. I speak in tongues for other people. It's just not as regimented as it was in TWI. I don't HAVE to do it....I get to choose now when I do or don't. It's more inspired now.

Java Jane....ditto what you said about PTSD.....ME too.

It's amazing what it does to you. I have a terrible time with being involved with "groups" and people in spiritual authority. People who criticize and judge. Been out for 23 years and still there are moments and there are still times of triggers that can send me reeling. Greatly improved over time, but like you, I was told too that I'd probably have some sort of effect for a life time.

I'm not sure I am "Over it" yet and I've been out for 23 years! However I certainly am not where I was when I first left.

When I first left I didn't know what to do or where to go. I had estranged my family and now my mother didn't trust me at all. I tried church and that didn't work because I had my defenses regarding doctrine and beliefs that were still tied to TWI. I remember a couple inviting me their house (This was 2 months out) for Christmas Eve and being aghast at the Christmas tree and the Christmas music and thinking "what am I doing here".

I wasn't sure I knew God at all, but I knew I wasn't gonna pray, Thank you God for this, thank you God for that........vain repetitions. I just didn't know so I prayed to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and I asked for help. I needed help, I couldn't fix myself and I knew it. I asked for God to put me back together and I had to believe that He would.

I did go to therapy for a number of years....that was helpful. I found out after I got out I had an addiction problem. So I entered into recovery...where I learned how to change, how to live healthy and addressed a lot of issues in my life. That's a process that is still going on today.

I read books, some that have already been mentioned here. I read books that people had written about their group experience and could relate to what they had written. I hung out here at grease spot in the chat room and on the forums.

A lot of it has been knowing it's ok to give myself permission to do things like,

Note read the bible for awhile or to read different versions

To listen to music that wasn't TWI, I love James Taylor and Carole King.

To let people be people and that they were wonderful without taking a class.

To read novels and whatever book I wanted to read

To be social with people and be on their level not above them.

To rid myself of TWI materials and be ok with it

I realized that I was entangled by fear....afraid to this or do that because God wouldn't approve. I found out that I was not a "copped out believer in Left field".

I had been in a prison that I didn't know I was in....and was so used to it that now having so much freedom, it was scary to actually accept it.

"Getting over it" is a process...and it takes time. You never know when something will pop up and you'll be like, oh I've never seen that before in me, or I didn't realize I was still believing that.

Today, my life is so very different than the day I left. I'm not the same person at all. I'm am very grateful for the path I have taken since leaving. I am a better person now than I was even before I got into TWI and certainly since leaving.

I encourage you to continue to hang out here, to ask for help, and to ask questions.

There's so much posted here in different topics that could be beneficial to you.

But ALWAYS remember, you are NOT alone. You have a ton of people sorting out their lives like you are. We can tell you what we have done in our lives...some of it you will utilize, some you will not. You are a unique person and your path to healing will be a little different than the next person....just follow the leading if you think you need to do something. That's what I did.

We're here for you!

Loved what you had to say Java Jane...I can relate to it all. My whole way of thinking has changed and my beliefs.

I remember a time shortly after exiting that I just didn't know who God was anymore. And I faced this question of how do I pray and to whom. (I,too, through out all the Thank you God for this, Thank you God for that) I finally got the idea I would pray to the father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!!! I figured He knew who he was so I couldn't go wrong in praying that way. Ha! There's no way anyone knows everything about God. God is infinite and we are finite.

It's a process and it does take effort to take an honest look at who I was back then and when I see who I am today....no comparison...none at all. I'm happy today and I don't know everything!!!

Totally agree.....I've asked myself that question.....People don't walk over me any more, nor do I just "buy" something because someone says it's so. I have definitely looked at me before getting into TWI and what state I was in, what I believed, what I was actually "looking for" when I joined up, I've learned, since leaving, that people only have the power over you that you allow them to have. I really had no skills at living life and living it healthy. I didn't know healthy from unhealthy. At that time which was after the 60,s had breezed through, I thought life was suppose to be a party,only fun, anti establishment. And I definitely was anti the church as it stood then. I was naive, for one thing.....I didn't know anything about the bible...and so these people were experts, and biblical scholors so they said, and I said OK...teach me. And they did. I had nothing to compare it to...it sounded "right", it sounded "good"....definitely fed into my life style, which was yes you can smoke, yes you can drink and God is cool with that. I came from a home that was not a family and I definitely was looking what what I hadn't had growing up and TWI provided that "family". Unfortunately, it was also very disfunctional and I was blind to it. I don't know....I would love to lay the total blame at their feet, but that would not be the truth. The truth is that for some reason, I allowed them to do what they did in my life. I ignored the inbuilt red flags that came up many, many times because I didn't trust myself to know. I trusted them to know and them to tell me. I think I was "primed" for the experience due to my background. I was just food for their lunch.

Having said all that, there was so much evil going on, and I think it's been discussed here over and over and over again, so I don't have to reiterate all that has already been said, but it's a tragic, tragic story of how an organization of people (not all, but most) can take advantage of other human beings. Power is something human's love to have...and it has been shown how corrupt, sinful, and stripping it can be.

Today, I am in a good place, spiritually, and mentally. But, it's taken a lot of work on my part. I've learned the skills I didn't have when I signed the green card. I learned how to be true to me...to own my own power and not give it away like I did. Our lives have value...and I had to learn how to value it myself.

Well, I'll tell you that before I got into TWI, I was a musician, guitar, keyboard.....gave lessons on instruments as well as voice. Got into TWI and it was within months I was instructed to put down all music and only focus on the word.

So, I did. I stopped playing, writing songs, giving lessons etc etc. It totally messed with me because that was what I was good at and loved and to not do it, just crushed me. So for three years I had nothing to do with music. It wasn't until I went WOW, that the limb coordinator heard I used to play music and sing and he asked me to play and sing at the limb meeting. I said I can't....he said why not, and I said because I was told not to play music and focus on the word.

He said I think you should go ahead and do this, it's ok. I had to borrow a guitar cause I had sold mine...but I did one song. After that music was still a "dead" issue for me. No passion for it....lost it. After leaving TWI (and I was in for 13 years)...the first thing I wanted to do was music again...but I had no, absolutely no passion for it....it was gone. And it was really kind of strange as in my head I recalled my days prior to TWI and what I was doing and I so wanted to do that again...and I just could not Get the "passion" back. It was 13 years later that I befriended someone who actually helped me start playing again. But it took time even with that to get back into it and enjoy it. And truthfully, it has never meant as much to me now as it did prior TWI.

There's nothing "Fine" about Arts with no "Create"ivity.

First thing to go for me was the Law of Believing....That lifted a huge weight off my shoulders

The next was the "absent Christ"--who is not absent at all

and from there it's been a list of them that have been tossed out

- "the huge pile of menial tasks I had to complete in order to be pleasing to God, to earn my rewards in heaven, to keep the adversary from attacking. I was so distracted by trying to be perfect, by trying to live up to the impossible standard that I never even saw how ridiculous it all was"

AMEN and AMEN!!!!

Dreams.....I know I quit dreaming when I was in TWI...

I know I was sharing a bedroom with a twig leader...and she would wake me up if I was dreaming and would say, "Get into fellowship, you were dreaming".....I didn't want to go back to sleep just out of fear! This happened lots over time. Somewhere along the way, I did quit dreaming though.

Now I dream, good and bad and I don't think too much about it.

Yes, Bol...the Happy Birthday song....I laughed.....we did sing, "may all your dreams come true" didn't we?

Shellon,

So sorry to hear about this. Such a crazy e-mail to send to someone who is going through some things and needs the support of people. I can remember myself being in that frame of mentality, that if you left you were in "left field", or terrible things would happen to you if you would leave the protection of TWI.......Fortunately, for me, I found all of it to be Hogwash after I got out. Did I have some things that came up? Sure I did...and the silly thing I did, was at first, I feared perhaps they were right, but I can tell you today my life has never been as good as it is right now. Never...I'm truly blessed with so many people and good things in my life. And blessed to know what is healthy behavior and thinking today. I wouldn't change any of my life right now.

There is really Some unhealthy thinking and behavior attached to all of that in that note they sent to you. I know you and you are able to sift through all the crap and sort it out...and thank God you can.

One day perhaps they will come to realize what they have done to others in way of words and actions...until then, we move forward with the blessings and protection of a loving God, no matter what they think~!

Tzaia.......

To clarify.....I didn't post saying Lamsa was right or that I was in support of VP and I clearly said that in the post....I stated that I was writing the post to indicate WHERE VP got the idea and only included a quote from Lamsa's website for people who had never heard of him....which is no indication as to his correctness.

Clearly I stated I'm no researcher nor do I know anything about the Eastern vs the Western interpretation.

In Lamsa's Translation of Matthew it says, "My, God, My God, for this was I kept"

www.lamsabible.com

"Dr. Lamsa was a member of the Assyrian Church of the East. He was a strong advocate of one of that Church's beliefs: Pedangta primacy (a form of Aramaic primacy). His hypothesis was that for the New Testament, the Aramaic Pedangta was the original text, and the Greek version was translated from it. In support of this, he noted that Aramaic was the language of Jesus, His Disciples and the earliest Christians, including the authors of the Bible" (quoted from Home Page of Lamsa)

Know that I am not trying to support VP's teaching but more of WHERE he got it from...I don't know anything much about Lamsa...but from his website he appears to be a scholar of the bible and of the early language and he was Eastern, not Western. And this is what VP said, if I recollect it correctly. I, however, don't know a thing about Eastern vs Western...

Now the thing about "selling more bibles" seems a little out there for me...that doesn't seem to be right at all.

I also understand the translation of "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me" and how that has been supported from the bible. And most of the "western" world believes this translation....

I've not done the research so I can't comment on what which would be the correct one...Eastern or Western

It would be interesting though, I think, to look into it if you are a researcher.

Yea, I was there when it all came down...At that time I had been in for 12 years or so.

Totally rocked my world...because my whole life had been based on lies that they told and I believed. I was so totally "lost"...even though I knew things were going on that were not right...yet was convinced it was me that was screwed up and things would pan out.

I remember leaving and just being dumbfounded....totally dumbfounded so much I would come home from work and sit in a rocking chair and just try and digest all of it....questions flowed through my mind...Did I just lose 13 years of my life for nothing...what about God now? What was true and what was false about the bible? And how could I possibly sort ALL of that out? It was just hard to process it all in my head. I was angered because I thought the best years of my life had been taken from me...I had NO IDEA how to function now. What do you do if you don't go to twig? What do you do if there are no advances to go to or Joyful Noise to listen to? And what about all those tapes...what would happen to me for leaving? I wasn't sure about anything anymore and when I was in I was sure about Everything... I had all the answers, I had a purpose, moving the word, and I knew My God....Now, it had all fallen apart... I literally did not know how to function outside of the TWI culture...cause now I was in "their" world...all the people we had blasted because they were not with "Us" Who do you trust? Where do you go? How do you think? Totally just crushed me.

Rock my world??...I think I need stronger words to describe what it did to my life. And though I've been out for 23 years...there are STILL things I have to work through from being involved...

To quote a verse, I was as a sheep, led to the slaughter, at least that is the way I was feeling...

The good news is...God has been putting my life back together, and healing my wounds....And I'm thankful......

Yes, there was a huge wave of the "art"s in TWI a few years....."The Word in Culture"......it died out though after a time. Too bad, cause there were so many people who were artists, musicians, authors etc. It was a nice break from all the classes etc.

Yep---I remember it too....in TWI

Shellon--- Thanks back at ya 100 Times!!!! :)

Hooking up with x-way people has been a real gift to my life. Who else knows where you are coming from? Who else can you talk to about The Way Tree? Everyone I know would be like, "What the heck are you talking about"...ever try and explain what the ministry was like to a non way person. You can't....well you can try, but they are gonna look at you and nod their head while thinking, what are you talking about? When I first left TWI, I tried to get a counselor to help with that...do you know every, and I mean everyone that I called and asked said, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that, I'm not trained in that area.

In a recovery program, like AA or NA, or CA....It's members help each other to recover....WHY? Because they have been where that new person has come from. They understand how they think, how they hurt, they "get it" when the person says I just can't stop drinking/drugging, or whatever it may be and since they have recovered to a degree they are able to help another person. There's common ground...there's understanding...there's acceptance.

Same with people from TWI...I've been coming to this site for YEARS...and still come. It's part of my healing...it's people who know where I've been and it's all of what I just said, common ground, understanding and acceptance. You people "get me" because you've been there...and together we heal. One of the nice things about this website is you learn it wasn't just happening with you...it was happening with everyone...and all the time you were in TWI you thought it was just you who was having a problem, everyone else looked like they were fine and had it together. What a relief to find people who were going through the same things you did and survived and they can share how they did it....

I could definitely see how People hook up romantically. Love has little to do with your involvement in a group.

It has to do with hearts that beat in the same way...the attraction really has nothing to do with a group. In many instances I think it is a plus to hook up with someone from TWI...cause there's so much healing that can come from it when doing it together. You can say, Branch leader and your husband isn't gonna say, "What is that?"

Love is love and it has to do with two people drawn together who want to make a life together. When it comes, take it. We need to have more love and more healing in this world of ours.

Thank you all for helping me the way you have.....And I hope I've helped you in some way!

I got in in the 70's and was aghast that after Fellowship, everyone would smoke pot. And this went on for some time.

When I was a WOW on the field, people were smoking and doing cocaine. I think back and the first time I went to an event, and everyone was out there smoking cigarettes....I asked someone about it and they said, well smoking has to do with your flesh, not with the spiritual and God doesn't care if you do or you don't. I had struggled with quitting smoking but had successfully done it for like almost 2 years before attending that event....but when I heard that I was like, well ok, I can go back to smoking again. (I will take full responsibility for that decision....but it should have been a "wake up" call that maybe I should reevaluate my involvement) And Then it was like almost everything, the pot, the sex, the drugs, the alcohol was somehow "OK" because it was of the flesh...and God dealt with the spiritual. Don't know if anyone else heard that explanation....But I did consistently. There was an answer for everything...a justifiable answer that just made you think, well I must be screwed up then....I know people felt that.

Welcome! You are amongst Friends here.....we can relate to what you have experienced and understanding is huge here.

I was reading some articles and I ran across these statements that just pulled me up short.

"When a man joins the military, the first thing they do is strip away his individuality. He is now the member of a company or a battalion. He is no longer an individual. When you join the army, you essentially sign away your right to decide what you want to do with your life and your time. The military is filled with individuals, but they can never be individualistic. That is the first thing that a man is broken of when he joins the army."

Does this ring a bell? Anyone?

I can attest to this happening when I look back on my involvement with the ministry. I remember the first time I actually lived with people and I wanted to go to a movie but was told I could not go unless everyone in the house went. That made me feel like something was amiss. Yet, I had just learned that no one could do it if we all didn't do it....

I loved music...loved to play it...loved to listen to it, loved to write it. But early on, I was told to put down the music and "get into the Word" God First.... Then when I did pick up the music again...it could only be TWI music...No music that I had once liked before. In Fact, get rid of all the old music you have collected for 15 years.

I loved to read, majored in English....Loved reading the great novels etc.....but now put down All of your reading material and just get focused on the Word. And I did.

And I could go on and on giving examples.

I don't know if some of you remember the teacher saying that if men can be trained in the military, then why can't people be trained spiritually just like that? Anyone remember that? I was not in the corps....but I've heard stories....Would be interesting to see if anyone can pick out the things that seem similar to the military Training.

When I read the above paragraph I was like....that was us. We were individuals but we could never be individualistic. Basically, I lost "me". I was stripped of my individuality. "I" had become a "we" and I now liked what "We" liked...I did what "we" did...I believed what "we" believed" and I forgot who I was. I had joined up, signed on the line and and in doing so, I signed away my rights to a lot of what the first paragraph above talked about.

Perhaps this was not your experience and I am really happy for you if that was the case. It wasn't mine.

I'd like to hear your take on this observation...

Thanks Shellon...It HAS been a worthwhile journey...You did so much for me when I first left the ministry and I was like hanging by a thread....it was you that God brought into my life and for quite some time it was you in the chat room that kept me on the journey and I'll always be grateful for you!!!

Great Topic.....

When I got Into the ministry, I was suicidal and had been for some time....I was drinking, had flunked out of college...and was really depressed. I prayed to God for help...and I was witnessed to by a fellow laborer. I was in debt, and I was definitely in a lot of Pain. I felt "Lost" and unable to pinpoint what my problem was. After running into the Ministry repeated times, after I prayed to God....I said, well ok. this must be the answer to my prayer. And I signed on the Green card. Did it save my life? I'd like to say God saved my life.....but I think I had a track record of making bad choices. I didn't know a good one if it came and knocked on my door. I was a left over hippie...just wanted to have "fun", not be responsible or grow up...just have fun... and my fun had backfired on me and I found myself in the pit. I was hardheaded...didn't want to listen to anyone...Once involved I found it was more than I thought it was and I didn't see the errors for years after I was in. My life did change for the better initially.

I got out of debt, I thought I had found a "family", and did in some respects. Like some others have said, this has been a puzzle to me....Was it God that directed me to the ministry? It did a few good things for me. But it all went south....and so did I. I left mentally and emotionally in a bad place. And probably the worst thing was I didn't know what was true and what was not...just confused about it all.

I look back on my involvement and whether or not I ever understand getting involved.....I know this. There were lives that I did actually touch in a very loving and Godly way. I believe God was working in me to love them. As I was also touched by other people who were loving and caring for me, something I hadn't had in my life before. I actually felt like maybe my life had some value. And I had never felt that way before.

The doctrine...totally messed up which messed up people in a big way. People became domineering instead of loving...seeking a status rather than being truly loving and caring. It just turned upside down. Some of my roughest times were after I left and started trying to put the pieces back together and trying to understand it all. It almost was too much for my mind to wrap itself around.

Now, after being out for 23 years, my life is the best it's ever been...but it has taken a lot to get to this point.

It hasn't been an easy journey, but It's been a worthwhile one.

I like reading what other people wrote in response to this topic.....Thank you to everyone for your sharing!

I scanned the website....read parts of articles, looked at the bookstore.....Looks like all of VP's works.

Funny, what can trigger your mind cause my mind got triggered by looking at this website.

Material doesn't look to be changed....if there are changes it might be in attitudes.....could it be??

I think it's been a journey of sorting out what is truth and what is not. And I think it will continue to be that.

I also think, for me, it's seeking God....seeking a closer fellowship with Him every day. No one knows the ALL truth, except God.....but I can know a bit here and a bit there.....

In TWI, I never searched anything out for myself.....I just took in what was taught to me as truth and adopted those beliefs....Bad decision on my part. BUT, I will say, one thing that was good that happened is that I actually got into the bible, which I had never been before. I attended church....but wasn't into the bible.....

I have found that God always works things out for my good...the good and the bad. I'm not so concerned about having THE TRUTH on every verse and chapter like I was. I think it was the "rightly dividing" the word that got me to be such an avid searcher for the Truth. I have relaxed about it all and know that God will reveal it to me, which He has done.

I guess it would be a better description to say, I have a great desire to know God and the Bible.....