sky4it

The song remains:

I think what makes suffering so inexorably difficult in a religous organization, is that it is unexpected. Of course, I thought the way kinda taught that suffering was religated to ones believing ( although that may have changed). Regardless, that view is kinda unrealistic.

Anyways , in a religious organization you kind of expect better in terms of kindness and honesty. This is simply not the truth any any religious organization. You can find abusive people everywhere.

Certainly in my life, I have suffered worse than the pratfals of men in cleric robes. Regardless the type of suffering, there ought to be some benefit to it, in terms of personal growth.

The song remains:

your comment:

All I wanted to do was get my life right again with God.

And yah know, I think thats all God wants us to do. Regardless wether in an organization or everyday life, men abuse others. Truthfully, we can be joyful in the sense that God is larger than the circumstance. Take comfort in knowing that.

wordwolf:

Yeppers

Amen - i havent said that in a while.

Everybody:

There is something I stumbled across years ago that is quite fascinating.

You know how they talk about Job's three friends? Turns out there was a fourth guy by the name of Elihu who also talked to Job. Chapter 32-37.

Niether was God angry with this fellow like the other three, but God said nothing about him. Somewhat fascinating the term ELI means God or Lord, i forget. The hu, I dunno, one for the word study types. Could it mean God Who? as in type of Christ like the tabernacle was. Me thinks so.

Anyways his words are quite comforting, I know I have enjoyed them. Take a peek, it will be worth your while.

They should make a movie on John the Babtist. He must have been the fiestiest man ever. Maybe what were doing in hear after all isnt to bad. I have yet hear some one sound off and call everyone a generation of vipers and warn them to flee from wrath. Who knows maybe the approbriate moment will come?

Anyways, it sure would be nice if it would be something to look forward to (longsuffering) rather than despised.

I think now sometimes that, because of our nature to engage in self glory when we are lifted up in some respect, that God seems to place his power in places where it is hidden. I think Habakuk said there is the hiding of his power.

Todd:

Yah know Todd when Im angry and resentful for someone taking advantage of me, it seems to occupy me in an unproductive way. Maybe in that sense, longsuffering is a fruit, cause I can quickly forget about it and give it to the Lord.

That was so good what you said. I may have to repost that when there is a hot battle of the doctines going on in the room. Your comments would be like putting water on fire. Superb.

God Bless yah Todd, talk to yah later.

Excath:

Your comment:

here i see most christians just walk on each other....

I think I am going to stay out of doctrinal arguements, its too much strife for me. I really dont think the Lord wants us to strive with others, people just get hurt.

God bless

Thanks Exc & Todd,

I enjoyed your comments.

Prior to posting, I checked the word in Vines Expost. Dict of new words. It said something about patience, and bearing long with. Problem is in our fast food culture, that doesnt seem to fruitful to me.

I remember after I got married and my wife was in the hospital almost 50 times over the next 8 years. Then my daughter came down with Luekimia ( she is know cured) I have always wondered what the fruit is in learning how to bear long with some one.

About the only thing I can say, is that in these times is when I've dug the deepest to find the Lord. It does seem to me that the Lords personality is very meek, very low, I have often thought that if I want to be like him, I need to find good reasons to be like that. One thing I love about this , is that I think this characteristic of Christ, ( his meekness or lowness) means that he will always be withing reach, so long as I am not trying to be a big shot myself.

I wish I desired to be "longsuffering", as much as I desiredsuccess. The worlds version of success is to have the affirmation of people. The Lord has that all tipped upside down I think.

Well I spent one penny of my two cents.

I soo appreciate your comments EXC and Todd. I dont get a lot of fellowship these days. Thanks

Evan:

You can say that again evan.

still there must be something good about it tastey too... hummmm.

Why is Longsuffering listed as a fruit of the Spirit?

Personally, it would seem more like a vegetable than a fruit. Tastes lousy, suppose to be good for you , who knows what the benefits are. At a minimum, it would seem God has a sense of humor.

Anyways, I thought to start this as a topic, as you guys post, I'll be sure to get my 2 cents worth in.

Darryl:

I also remember some Pentacostal and other preachers, who went into in depth word type studies from scripture, whose methods were not unlike the ways methods. Thru studies like that, some people were able to bring some good stuff out of the Prophets and such, so its not like The way was the only people who used word studies to teach the bible.

Any way thanks for the response Darryl, I'll catch up with yah later.

Galen:

Thanks for the reply.

The way my life is today, the best church for me would probably be the "Living by the seat of your pants church."

Personally right now I am enjoying the people here at GS.

We should ask Paw to change the term doctrine to bible stuff for a heading. I think the term doctrine has everyone frightened for obvious reasons.

Anyways nice to have a cordial talk with you Galen, I will see you on the flip side.

Galen:

I suppose it would take 2 pages of a letter to indicate my feelings.

I always thought that TWI could have served a good purpose with the mainstream Christian church.

To do so they would have had to drop the Trinity issue, drop the 1st century church thing and indicate that sincerity is the leaven that makes the Lord vibrant in others life.

I remember years ago when I was involved in doctrinal disputes with Pentacostal types. My attitude was so ferocius that it made everything that I said questionable in there eyes. Knowledge without love isnt the good word of God either, all it creates is strife.

Anyways, there certainly was good stuff that TWI taught. I never disputed that. Neither have I once called TWI a cult and why? Because I think it does diservice to the people who simply wanted to know more about the Lord.

I expereinced a similar breakup of a small church group that was Pentacostal years ago. From that group I have a 2 year Bible diploma that has no value. The group no longer exists.

There are a some other Biblical interpetation principals that I have picked up that I never heard at TWI at all. One is the concept of "typeology" where the book of Hebrews discribes Old Testament furniture and sacrifices as shawdows or types of the heavenly. I have found this interesting as well. Invisible Dan, has pointed out some historical perspectives that are real cool.

I think that the Kool Aid concept from some other authors is mean spirited. But when I see some talk about the abuses, I certainly understand where they are coming from. For me Galen, it took me several years to get over the Pentacostal church breakup. I only seemed to get real healthy after my attitude towards those people changed and I was loving.

With respect to Lynn and CES and The Way, I think its approbriate for people to point out the things that they thought hurt them. The flip side is that it should be done also in love for there own sake also. If you think I was overly harsh I apologize. I am new to GS, and prior I was chatting on the ESPN sports boards. The mud slinging in there is ferocious. Personally I dont want to get in any more doctrinal disputes, I think they end up poorly most of the time.

Galen:

You made some good points, I think there was some good stuff as you said.

I remember a time when the concept of only reading the word I found quite refreshing. The truth is, I still find that concept refreshing.

At the time I bumped into TWI, I was reading the paraphrase version, which as we all know is just the bible paraphrased. Certainly by emphasizing the translated word was a issue that was well needed. Twi did this.

Invisible Dan:

Wouldnt it be nice to just put doctrines all under the "Yeah so what?" Category For example, I heard John Hagee on TV one day arguing the necessity of believing in the rapture. Whatever. I always simply think, Well if it happens I'm going and if it don't I'm staying, either way it will be no surprise.

With respect to my own dreams, I to am a peon whose opinions have little signifacance. Certainly at times this has made me question what good I am doing. Like , know one cares, it makes no difference so why should I? The only problem with that is then I can never make good of the troublesome experiences I have left behind. Thats why the TWI experience is meaningful to me, I think God can use it to sharpen up that thing we called the word of God.

I suppose I could give you the top ten reasons that I havent turned my back on God and find myself snorting coke with a crack ho, (yes I am exaggerating for humor sake), sufficient to say I always find enough new daily interest, eternal benefit (faith) , and reasons along the way to keep myself from digressing. Lastly, who knows if every thing that we think is little will always remain so? I think its quite certain Jeremiah or Job would have never viewed themselves and there work as profound as it was, yah know? So in the end its more about what God thinks weve done than what we do. I find that quite liberating and compelling. Who knows maybe someday you will at least make the honor roll? For me, If he simply says, well done tho good and faithful servant, I think I will feel quite well.

Invisible Dan:

Terrific letter. I think u should repost it on as a complete topic, ask for everyones approval,(even the most angry of the bunch), ask for critisism to cease and see if he will respond.

Your letter asks questions in a kind, descent and non-condescending way and seeks to put forth meaningful questions that others need to have answer in there future spiritual quest. Superb.

Danny:

I wasnt referring to John Lynn bieng toxic. What I meant was that the subject material just seems to stir up hard feelings which have little value little worth.

With respect to Lynn, I innumerated a few differences that I had with him. To take it any furhter tho, I personally think is unwise. He is a person too, who stands or falls not on my opinion or any of ours, but in front of Our and His Lord.

Garth:

Thanks for the response. I agree with you that the entire subject matter of John Lynn and CES is becoming somewhat toxic, - little value, lots of issues kinda thing.

I think in the next 2 weeks Im gonna try and start some different topics.

Raf:

Thanks for the commentary.

I simply asked you because your answers always seem to contain some forethought and balance.

:)-->

Garth:

your comment:

Thus we have a combination of The Defense of Orthodoxy and Have Gun, Will Travel.

you gotta admit your certainly poking fun at cynic, which sort of mutes the arguement on anything of his comebacks. Personally , I enjoy that fact he has looked into the doctrinal dogmas, especially the parts where cynic shows how certain scriptures are deleted or downplayed, it adds to understanding.

Satori: Your comments about Ronald McDevil and the McBible were hilarious.

satori:

I agree, I dont understand Garth's purpose is unless he wants to sing some country western tunes.

cynic: I enjoy your posts.

cynic:

Wonderfully, I think Uncle Harry's particular little life is of more signifance to the Master, than the truth and error concerning the God of Scripture.

Perhaps thats why all theological debate will never be resolved in a method that serves our brains. I'm not critizing you either cynic, cause if the Master didnt love me I might be out selling flowers for the moonies. :)-->

uncle hairy:

I never knew that stuff when i walked from "The Way" that you said.

I simply knew that my sincerity was good for something. But thanks for the info.

Galen:

your comment:

I was not aware that G-d ridicules his faithful followers so much, could you please, Dannny give us an example of where G-d ridicules a follower as a sign of love.

answer: Baalim (son of Besor) i forget