penguin

Amen rascal and belle! rascal said

It is hard to come to grips with being decieved for so many years.

It is much easier to pretend that all was well in twi and see ourselves as heroes...rather than feel foolish for being duped.

It was much easier staying in denial, but I eventually had to stop pretending. I still agree with most of what twi taught, but there were enough doctrinal/practical issues I have believed and taught that were not accurate. It was a very humbling day when I realized I had been deceived/mislead and that I had deceived and mislead others. The fact I helped ensnare others into twi even though I had good intentions was a very painful one and hard to come to terms with. And yes I did/do feel foolish about it too :blink:

I figure I need to show up again on this thread. I wanted to clarify that I do not blame God for what happened to me. In my original post I said "what I thought was God's representatives" not God. I know it was my own free will/stupid choices. Even though I can logically tell myself why it wasn't God's fault, that God is always good and faithful etc. I still hesitate to really let go and trust Him--I need to be in control, plan it out, figure out how to get deliverance etc.

What has really helped me is that He has reminded me of at least one time where there was a definite opportunity to rethink what I had gotten involved in. Unfortunately, as a new grad of the foundational class, I had already became too egotistical and prideful and resisted Him during the whole 3 day event I was participating in. I mostly was questioning my own discernment and ability to hear Him for the

many years I was in.

Maybe I should just say the made me do it? :D

Oldies,

I say yes--I expect for God to show us what His Truth is. John 16:7-15 was twisted by lcm to prove what the epistles teach us---but neglected to show us how God can and will teach us what we need to know when we need to. Our Comforter is to lead us into all truth, not a man and not a class!

John 16:7-15

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove F31 the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

My reaction to mastering PFAL.

I am going to try to just read the Bible for once.

Thanks

Now you can go back to your topic.

Ok I will behave this time... ummm

I learned how to clean and do setup for meetings. I also got over my fear of speaking in public.

How's that?

:blink: :unsure:

Yes but all of the good things mentioned so far can be found in any decent church these days!! Imagine learning what we did without the manipulation, fear, and screaming!

How many of you here are still struggling with trusting God again? I was thinking about all of us who made commitments (WOW,Way Corpse, Staff, Way Disciple, and the other programs) to who we thought were God's representatives only to be told we didn't measure up and that we needed to leave/be dropped etc.

It is sad that a beautiful desire to serve God and help others was trashed by twi when we were told we were not good enough. VP might have said he would take people with heart over people with ability, but in the latter days this was no longer the case. In fact, it was normally the opposite.

Anyone else have these issues? What have you done about it?

Well seeing my syllabus wasn't stuck in the attic--and it was near the Christmas tree that I had to get anyway, I went and looked it up.

Segment 19 covers the new birth. Segment 20 covers speaking in tongues. In segment 20, pg 112 of FNC WAP syllabus says,

"To make Jesus lord in your life starts with obeying the Word. And the Word says that speaking in tongues is how we build up ourselves, which is how we keep ourselves in the love of God and keep ourselves from falling."

Make Jesus as lord = obey Word = speak in tongues.

I find it odd that segment 19 doesnt really address what making Jesus lord would actually take. It says in print that all it takes to make him lord is to agree with the Word on what it says Jesus is.

Back on topic:

During the live classes which ran for 5 years? (I think) the local corpse used the syllabus but often elaborated on its different points. Many things were said that cannot be officially documented. Especially with corpse that were around longer and more confident in their ability and knowledge (ex Moneyhands.)

IMHO One of the major things missing in twi is BALANCE!!!! Moderation in all things pertains to ALL aspects of life. One category of life shouldn't suffer/be allowed to lack for any length of time.

TWI encouraged us to be "Sold-out" to "moving the Word" = ignoring your own needs in order to be douloses for God. An innie friend just recently told me that they were told that jobs, children's school activities and other pursuits should Not interfere with attending fellowships and ministry functions. Same o Same o

DUCK!!!

Get better Psalmie!

I agree with Morgan. I think a lot of miracles happened because God is so much bigger than we realize. I believe the deliverance I initially received was in spite of twi and due only to God honoring some well-meaning people's desire to love and serve Him. In the long run, twi did more damage to me personally than good.

Also, I listened to this year's twi anniversary tape. gag Did you hear it Thin Lizzy? Did you catch the references made to how twi has taught its followers to get nice cars, college educations and buy houses without going into debt? I know you mentioned you were away for a bit--but I can assure you that those things have NOT really been taught, not if twits are honest with themselves. The most I have heard is that high school kids need to get scholarships to afford college. (Which doesn't help adults who need to get degrees to have decent jobs.) I have heard you should but not the "how-to"

twi seems nicer now--but the control is still there, just more subtle. They know they can't be blatant.

Happy Thanksgiving Paw! Thanks for keeping the doors open here.

To all my fellow diners, have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Catcup is right. Learned Helplessness is a very accurate term refering to twit world.

I remember my first attempt to go to a church--I sat in the parking lot for 20-30 minutes almost paralyzed with fear before I would go in. Gee! Then I found out there really was "something else" out there and that the "something else" was in many aspects oh so much greater than twi!

Oldies,

I never said people weren't welcome to pursue what they wanted. But it is very obvious that for a "Christian" organization, twi doesn't do or act very Christ-like! I think no one realizes twi for what it is really is UNTIL after they leave and step away if they ever get brave enough to do it.

Oldies,

I don't even buy your theory that folks are entrapped there, even today. Folks have free will.

Folks may still "officially" have free will, but most I have encountered have fully swallowed twi bull.... that "they are the only true household of God", that "If you leave God's protection and blessings will be off of your life" and that "there is nothing else out there." Most innies I have seen are paralyzed by fear and belief of the above doctrines. Many are unhappy but don't believe they can really do anything about it. Others continue to keep themselves "in the dark" and in denial of how dead twi is.

What the Hey,

Not that I have much to offer in this debate we have going on, but your last post made me have a flashback of reading loyboy's book he wrote about Acts. Sounded awfully familar...does anyone else beside twi teach that Acts was a transitional book? (I am asking this sincerely since I don't have a clue.) :blink:

That's the exact point that really gets on my nerves. That there has never really been a reconsideration of what lcm taught--considering what he was DOING while teaching!

Not exactly what JKB started but I have been thinking...

I was talking to someone who mentioned that some twiers changed drastically just by attending ROA one year. I think about other classes/events that people attended and wonder how it affected them.

One thing I have begun to realize is that at some point I turned all of my emotions off with the exception of anger and frustration. I read that that can happen under extreme pressure and tension or traumatic events. Now I am wondering which event(s) could have triggered it and how to turn my "good" emotions back on. I am assuming I truned off my emotions either during a face melting session or just the accumulation of pressure during in rez until being kicked out of corpse.

Eagle,

I hope you don't mind me asking, but which offshoot? You can PM if you don't want to post, but it would be beneficial to me to know.

Thanks

In addition to the lie that "there is nothing else out there" beside twi, is the concept that you have to believe 100% the SAME as everyone else in your organization/church/ministry!

Right now there are plenty of people in twi that do not believe everything taught by BOD. And you will come across different people who disagree on different things. I have found that it is okay to believe differently from others in the same group. And there are plenty of churches that even keep things decent and in order when it comes to manifestations!

There is no benefit to having only a intellectual perception of God--find a ministry with some real life and love in it! Where is that REAL vital relationship with God that twi used to talk about having? I have only seen it outside of twi.

There is a lack of balance and common sense in twi. (Taking a valid principle but then stretching it too far. It can be subtle but its there.)

Look at what Jesus Christ actually did--since we are supposed to be "followers of Jesus Christ" like twi definition says. The churches and other ministries are carrying out his words and works better than twi.

And Bliss, isnt it amazing to see how much control we allowed leader.... to have over our lives without even realizing it? It is so exhilerating to breathe the air of freedom.

And just think! Real soon their will be another foundational class for all the faithful twits to take! I wonder, is there anyone here who will be able to let us know how "great" it is?

Well, I am still figuring stuff out. Paul only remembers baptizing Steve's house, Crispus and Gaius--but for some reason he baptized them! It cannot be refering to people believing on his words since obviously more people believed on Jesus Christ from Paul's teachings than just the ones mentioned. IMHO it must be that other leaders/believers helped to baptize new believers and Paul mostly focused on teaching the Word.

And I think its quite a twist/rationalization from twi/vpw/lcm whoever to say well, it doesn't say they baptized with water. (Check out Acts 8 with Philip where water is mentioned FOUR times btw) Also if it was baptism by/with holy spirit as twi tried to teach...that would have to be God's department not mans if someone was to be baptized that way (ie between God and the new believer)

Most are not staying around any longer because......

TWI is all about control

control

control

Too bad most don't see it until they leave, or only see an inkling of it.

Raf, surely this was sarcasm, right?

Charismatic leadership : Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.

Not a hint of this in TWI.

I gave twi a modest 27