Ductape

Islamaphobic!

I heard liberals do eat their young.

YES!!!! PRAISE GOD!!! That chant is running through the compounds of the FLDS , even though they are strongly against same sex anything. If you don't define marriage as a civil contract between a man and a woman you've opened the door for the plural marriage lobby. The Texas compound and the Canyon City bunch are now loading their hand carts and will flee the oppression of the persecuting states they live in. FLDS compounds around the world are waiting to see the reception to see if the Lord God Almighty has given them a new Zion, like he gave them Utah before the corruption of doctrine.

Animal rights groups that REALLY love their animals are also watching with great expectations!

That would mean that those of us that stayed past the great exodus were lesser......

Yes the Trail of Tears was a horrible chapter in the history of the USA. Many Whites fought to prevent this atrocity, including Davy Crocket and the highest court ruled against the removal. How did it happen then? Some tribal members signed away the rights of the tribe making it legal to force the removal. Crocket chose for his career in DC to be ruined because he stood with the Cherokee. Congress had to ratify the treaty and it passed by 1 vote in the Senate, strongly opposed were Daniel Webster and Henry Clay. General John Wool resigned in protest to the removal.

While so many like to point fingers and put all the blame on the Whites, they never mention facts like it took tribe members to sign the treaty after it had been defeated. Just like it took White Abolitionists fighting to bring slavery to an end to free the slaves…..

Time....

Gun weight, barrel length, model differences, etc. aside...

If one shoots a .40 SW and a .45 ACP from two guns of the same manufacture and model, which gun (identified by caliber) is going to undergo the greater muzzle jump, and thus require more time and/or effort for re-sighting? Is the difference significant? Or slight?

I can't really answer that, but did find this:

Typically you won't find huge differences between the premium defensive loads in 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp in stopping power, FPE, or however else you want to measure it. The 9mm is decent, the .40 is a little better, and the .45acp is a little better still.

The .45 leaves a slightly bigger hole (of course).

The .45acp is a big, but slow bullet getting most of its power from mass. This leads to a relatively strong level of recoil, but it is usually felt in the form of a slow, steady push that most people find quite easy to handle (and it is rarely unpleasant).

9mm is small and fast. Small enough that the total recoil isn't great, but the speed pushes it into your hand as a quick, sharp, snap. Not usually unpleasant due to the overall level of recoil.

.40 is kind of the worst of both. The heavier bullet means typically a stronger recoil impulse. It is a fast bullet though, so the stronger impulse is sent to your hand in a quick, sharp, snap. Many more people seem to find .40S&W recoil to be unpleasant than 9mm or .45acp.

The 9mm is a relatively small round. Due to that it can be put in much smaller packages than larger rounds or a larger gun can hold more rounds.

The .45acp is much bigger and either needs larger packages and/or fewer rounds.

The .40S&W is somewhere in between.

All are good rounds. All will serve you well. Do some research (you've started that here) borrow or rent guns in each to try. Find what appeals to you. Still, I think the more important factor is to find the platform (gun) that you prefer than the caliber you prefer when looking at these three options.

Question:

How does the muzzle jump of a .40 S&W handgun compare with the muzzle jump of a .45 ACP?

I have a 9mm that out jumps and rolls many 40's or 45's, really you may need to compare what model and make you are looking at. My 9mm is a little compact thing and very light weight. The 40's I have shot seemed a lot tamer, but I think the same thing about my 41 mag compared to a 44 mag.

But what do I know anyway, as I was given my first daisy BB gun at 8 years and earned my first 20 gauge single shot shotgun 2 years later collecting pop bottles for a nickel and Magpie bounty for a nickel. Jack-rabbit bounty was then a quarter and with the buck and quarter per muskrat hide by 11 I had my Nylon 66 Remington semi-auto 22 rifle. By 15 it was on to the larger calibers and deer hunting, I might add alone as my father lost all interest in hunting.

Then came along a long line of old timers looking for a companion who would be silent and watch and learn as they ran their trap lines for bounty of $50 apiece and $50 for a good hide of a coyote old Ed Young shot a 22-250 and I personally stepped off more than 300 yards retrieving his coyote. When Dave Lye died in the early 90's it was an end of an era. Dave ran a bait and tackle shop in the summer months and a trap line during all the months with an R in them. Late 60's, early 70's Dave would pick up my buddy Rich Rouse and when the line brought them past my family farm they would stop and get me. Dark-thirty and often 30 below, setting out in Dave's old International Harvester Scout powered by a 4 cylinder engine with a top speed of 45 miles per hour and sound effects for a heater we would set out only to return after dark. Dave carried a 22 short pistol and an old bolt action Savage Arms single shot 22.

Dave was an accomplished trapper and one of the best hunters I have ever known. He could easily get within 50 yards of a coyote and put its eye out, the only other gun he owned was an old Winchester 30/30 and he bagged his elk every year as well as deer and antelope. Running the trap line with old Dave Young back then is where I gained my love of good single shots, still prefer them in rifles. That's why I got a good chuckle when several buddies tried to get me to join their AR15 club. Everyone of them are hunting freaks, everything they do with fire arms is to improve their skills for hunting and self-defense.

I know several shot-gunners that shoot skeet; they all do it to get better at their bird hunting. All the guys and gals I see at the shooting ranges I go to are there for the same reasons, I know of no one who doesn't shoot without hunting and/or self-defense in mind. But then what the hell do I know……..

Music was all wrong. Guns....firearms for the most part are about fun. Some people like tennis, golf, cards, surfing, gardening.

Most shooting today is about fun and sports. The fastest growing shooting sport today is cowboy action. That is really more about dress than about guns.

But lets talk about shooting sports. I have tried to come up with a list on the different types and the list is tooooo long.

Shotguns. Lets see sheet, trap, sporting clays and probably ten more. These are Olympic sports.

Bulls eye shooting there are so many classes I don't know where to start. Bulls eye is shooting while being stationary at a target.

IPSC, IDPA and several more are different types of pistol competitions.

What I enjoy the most is Carbine. Which is shooting one of the above but using a semi auto rifle. Then there are five or so different classes within that. This is my favorite.

Shooting for the most part is not about killing. Its about sport.

I haven't gotten a hunting license in 4 years. I've shoot over 4000 times in that time frame.

well then excuse me all to hell

cuse me.............gun appropriate music

So I was the one that suggested this thread, since that time the Armageddon Arsenal (as one child of mine calls it) was loaded and we went on a trip. Finding a nice solitude spot with a good hill for a back stop my youngest discovered the beauty and power of my TCII with the 23" 35 Remington barrel. We shot the 9mm, the little compact S&W hide-a-way, the Ruger New Model Blackhawk 41 mag The mag has a decent roll and new rubber grips finally fit our big palmed hands. Of course a few dozen clips out of the semi-auto 22 were a blast.

The 35 Remington with 2 x 7 variable scope and the rocks about 150 yards where the hill ended died noble deaths. The TCII doesn't roll like a regular pistol, it recoils more like a hand held cannon. It's a feeling felt all the way down to your toes when you squeeze one off. Simply orgasmic as another shooter puts it.

If you are taking a 30-06 and shooting the sabot rounds it a classic case of the wrong gun for the job. It has been said that the 30-06 is the most versatile rifle cartridge made. This may be true but the answer is buying the 25-06 which is the .30 cartridge necked down to 25 caliber. The problem with the sabot is consistency/accuracy. The sabot (french for shoe) is a plastic holder that holds a smaller caliber bullet. The idea is that this allows a small weight bullet with a better ballistic density to be fired out of a larger caliber rifle. This has never caught on with the exception of the 30-06. This is mainly due to how many of them are out there. The 270 was the first commercial success with necking the 30-06 down. This happened somewhere in the 1930. The 25-06 was the next step that happened in the late 60's.

My personal favorite as I mentioned is the 257 Roberts. I can load them to about 3000 fps with a 120 grn slug. Takes care of all the local game without massive recoil. Local game consists of deer and feral hogs.

That brings us to the glazer round. It is good at self defense but is easily surpassed just by using a premium bullet. Plus the glazer round is not accurate. Of course a pistol round is not going to be shot at over 7 yrds(21ft). If you shoot in self defense and the target is beyond that you will have legal issues.

Ex-70s, great stuff! But deer and even elk have fallen at ranges of 200 yards with the mighty high powered 22 caliber loads. Many an old timer has preached the virtues of the 22 rim fire and many a coyote meeting their demise with one. I always needed more, but not as much as what you shoot. The 243 or a 6mm are often praised as the ultimate varmint rounds.

Maybe a gun lovers thread would be in order. I wouldn't mind learning more from you or others that know.

Thanks Jim & RonG ... I also would like to be able to get rid of some coons and groundhogs ... general varmints ... and maybe some practice shooting without spending a quarter or more per shot. My .22 generally works on the little stuff, though I try to get a quick kill on a groundhog or something that doesn't drop with one shot. The groundhogs are right in my back yard again ...

There are still a couple squirrels and rabbits around ... but I want to be able to get the coyote if need be. I never related a coon would carrying off a big turkey ... interesting. 45 pounds .. wow, that's a nice turkey dinner. I always heard of weasels or fox getting at the chickens ... but I guess that makes sense ... we have tons of coons, just can't recall them getting chickens.

The .223 Remington rounds are $1.25 each or so. Yikes ... no way I'll be doing target practice with those rounds. I can think of better ways to spend a hundred bucks. My cheap .22 rounds are closer to three cents ... don't remember exactly. Looks like the 30.06 rounds are $1.50 or so.

I'll keep checking I guess ... thanks ...

I shoot some cheaper 22 loads regularly for target practice but have some great high powered 22 hollow points for small game. There are many sources for surplus 223 rounds for a lot cheaper than what you quoted. But if you want to try expensive shooting buy rounds for my 41 mag pistol. To feed my habit of burning up lead I am going to start reloading and bring the cost down to pennies a round.

Be warned coyotes are damn tough and will escape wounded if the shot isn't well placed or doesn't have hard impact……

A very popular round for varmints such as coyotes is the Remington 17. There are many good 22 caliber rounds, 223, 220 Swift, 22-250 just to name a few. For a grand a Ruger Mini14 is a great semi-auto rifle that you can easily control 2 legged and 4 legged varmints with ease at 200 yards plus. I am not a big 22 mag fan, but for fun maybe consider a Thompson Contender single shot pistol, you can get different barrels with various calibers.

6th corps grad, Rome City????? Sure always trustworthy...........

To Dale be the glory great things he hath done, oh side note God did it. Some things never change.......

Wonder if he still poaches everything, you know poached eggs, poached deer, those sort of things.

Sorry, I have seen to much distruction by what would have been good dogs because they were allowed to "run free". The dogs get put down and the real perps live to ruin another dog.....

I remember peddlers coming by every fall including the Watkins Man.

Riding several miles on horse back with a dime to get an ice cold soda pop and then turning in the bottle for a nickel candy bar.

I remember the family Dr. making house calls....

Bunch of youngsters, I remember getting the first TV for miles and miles around, we milked our own cows and hauled our own coal from across state lines. Our telephone was a party line with 9 families on it. Gasoline was pumped by hand into a large glass container that sat on top of the pump with gallons marked and the gas was gravity feed into the vehicle. We all consided boycotting when it went over 19.9 a gallon......

First major institutionalized legalism came when the bus driver tried to pull his lie POOP and his coop. They preached grace while they whipped the masses in shape.

Then the Household teachings by LCM, before that for the common Jane and Joe it was a cakewalk. Sons of God suddenly wasn’t good enough, had to be of the household of faith, corps quality believers on the field without the training was the standard for the grads………..

Well I hope you begin to practice what you're preachin' Groucho.

JL

Thank you Ductape...I speak highly of you often.

So I've been told........

I know I"VE learned from Groucho's flawless example!

i just wish you knew some of the people who used to post here, and probably still would.....

but anyway. i don't disagree with what you're saying

--

ps.

someone i love and respect just wrote me and told me that i have a "cruel streak" for starting this thread

that really hurts

OK, fess up; were's the bug ya planted on me? In my brain??? :unsure:

I just mentioned to a friend I was thinking about posting a "Death of the Spot" thread.

Because I *see* and hear ya and have to agree. Long time ago in a universe far far away this place was made up of several cliques and I with many complained about that. That was much better than having an *In* crowd dominating and having the ear of the bosses; taking away the objectivity that used to be the norm. Judgements now seem to lean more and more to who is in favor of that crowd, who goes to the gatherings and who stays out of the boards *light*.

This place has a valuable and unique reason for being! It won't die because of outside attacks, it will continue to slowly commit suicide.

What timing, I may be net less for a week as vacation is here!