Ductape

I think it is one hell of a slippery slope when "your cause" allows your actions to be above the law.

How many scream and cry about fictitious loss of rights over the Patriot Act but don't hesitate to take away the legal rights and due course of others for "their cause"? How many think its good when criminals walk away because the criminals rights were violated? Giving any extremist group the rights over a society to enforce "their cause" while taking away legal rights to privacy and private property without due course is not worth what is being saved.

Oh, and I have seen animals in the described condition and worse "rescued", also animals from extended abuse suffering every day of their lives after being "rescued". Now I would say that is a terrible place for a society to be. But then there are some that do think animal life is equal to human life, or more honestly more valuable.

But then speaking out against such a purely emotional "cause" as animal rights automatically makes a person a dick.

You call it being toyed I call it being dicked with. But thank you Rocky. My dad taught us as kids that if your going to kill something (to eat) than you kill it. You don't torture it. Being out in extreme heat with no water, beating, hurting, and making an animal suffer is from the devil, not God.

and I should add once you make an animal a pet, I don't care if it's a turkey at Thanksgiving, you DONT KILL IT ONCE YOU MAKE IT A PET.

There something wrong with honest questions?

Suffering animals seem to suffer and be in pain longer when they are "rescued". Most are never "right" again. The humane thing use to be to put them "out of their misery", never pleasant and took some guts to do it, their suffering was ended quickly.

If your neighbor is abusing it's child and you go remove the child from them, you have taken the law into your own hands. So what if you notified the authorities and they didn't do what you wanted them to do in what you consider a timely manner; you have kid-napped that child! Animals have more rights under the law than children? If so it is because those laws are yet to be challenged and won't hold up. If an animal is being abused there are laws in place and procedures to be followed. It is like playing god to take the law into your own hands.

Not only acceptable but taking the dog away, even if you were breaking the law, would be the Godly thing to do.

Godly as in service to the same God that demanded animal sacrifice in the Old Testament?

Vigilante law is acceptable when animal abuse is suspected?

Did she break the law?

Clearly Excie has the inside track on this program as I am sure pillow hugging Jesus is better than the totally p!zzed one when he would see what these idiots promote in His name! Is this the other Jesus preached that would put God's elect in the path of harm and we are called whiners by someone that claims Christ was all over the program and mental hospitals and suicides abound?

Ego maniacs beating their chests promoting a potentially dangerous program to their followers, obviously these self centered, self serving, self proclaimed "ministers" of CES/STFI kept the "best" from TWI........... center stage and the worship of the peons.

yo ducttape, Christ was all over the place in the training. Christ was not explicitly mentioned in the training pamphlet. The training was not reserved for Christians only. Most in the training were Christians.

So a couple questions for you - is it possible that there could exist types of training that are good for some, but for others - potentially hurtful ? If this is the case, is the training "bad?" Stop ranting and give this some thought....

GS - a land of whiners and complainers !!! (and now I'm becoming infected too!!!)

As a minister for Christ I could never rightly recommend a program that turned out to be harmful to anyone. So my beef would be that it can't be recommended by a true minister of the true God, TYVM. Now you think about that while you continue all your finger pointing.

Maybe I'm a little naive to the dating lingo (online dating) but someone sent me a message and said I was a M.I.L.F.........what is that?

Cowgirl

From the American Pie movies, it means a Mother I would Like to F. (have sex with)

Just like Tookie

Hammer,

Yourself and a few others here at GS have the habit of wildly exaggerating and going over the top to cause destruction. Like vultures going in for the kill at any sign of weakness or error.

So here is more fodder for you...Yep I went through the pillow exercise at Vision Quest. It was enlightening. It wasn't a cure all for all my foibles. It was a way of opening my eyes to certain unresolved bitterness.

Momentus and Vision Quest and the like are good for some, not so good for others. I don't think you would be able to handle it well. Doesn't make you better or worse than me or anybody else. This kind of training just isn't right for you.

And Christ is for all that believe, so how about showing us where Christ is in the programs. In the programs for all to see and not just some.

BTW, vultures don't move in for the kill at any sign of weakness. They are carcass critters, you know bone-pickers and I personally see more bone-picking from the CES/STFI leaders.......

Funeral was yesterday, one interesting detail I learned was that Mom heard "How Great Thou Art" on the old Tennessee Ernie Ford television (we didn't call it TV back then) show. She wrote him and got the music from Ernie, whom she had meet singing on the stage of the Opry doing a gospel show as a youth. Mom's favorite Uncle Johnny was a revival preacher and traveled all over the south. Mom started singing at the age of 2 for the revivals. Great Uncle Johnny was involved in a huge gospel presentation sponsored By Ernie.

What's sad is my Father was of a different religion than Mom's family. Great Uncle Johnny disowned Mom for marrying him.

Thanks everyone for your support through this.

I am sorry for your loss Paw, loss of a favorite uncle hits very hard.

I like what 2 of my nieces are doing to help eliminate crime where they live. They teach other women how to use handguns and then once the women pass the courses help them get their conceal carry permits. Imagine safe streets for women to walk even after dark,

Harry Chapin

When I think I have more of the Truth than you (even if I do), but have not yet broken into true humility before God and Jesus (death of self; all I 'have' is a gift; I deserved death but were given life, etc.), but am still prideful about having the Truth, then I think telling you what to do (or even making you do it) is 'help'.

If I have good intentions, and I think I've got the Truth (even if I do), but have not yet broken and become grateful to be a servant, then more telling you what to do is more help.

Since I define it as Help, not Control, today's pop-psychology's mumbo jumbo that manufactures victims who need help can lead me further and further astray until I can become very diligent to be sure I'm 'helping' you as much as possible. All the while my good intentioned-heart has been deceived and I've wandered into calling evil Good, calling control Help, calling witchcraft Love and of course calling law Grace.

Witchcraft can, of course, become demonic, but Galatians lists it as a sin of the flesh--I want my way (ask any 2-year old). When I'm 50 and I'm right, then obviously the best thing for you is to want my way too. And the beat goes on.....

Grace, what a great post! I have been thinking about things like this a lot lately.

And what possible good is all my knowledge of the truth if it keeps me blinded to actual needs? Why also do some people with very screwy doctrines have such Godly practices? I mean their views of eternity and god I can't buy, but their true charity and caring for their fellow man is much higher than what we see with those claiming higher knowledge.

In November 1994, my wife and I participated in a four-day training experience called Momentus. We were persuaded to take Momentus byJOHN A. LYNN, head of a group called Christian Educational Services (CES). He said that Momentus was a Christian training that would help us "get closer to the Lord and to His people." It didn't

We also were required to bring in pillows to beat on during a session in which we laid a good portion of our problems on our parents. As we beat on the pillows, shouting "Mommy, Mommy, Mommy" and "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy," this act was supposed to "free us" of hidden resentments we'd harbored for all the "evil things our parents had done to us" when we were little.

Maybe a good Christian training would be to beat Rev.'s yelling Rev. Rev. Rev. as I am sure a good portion of our "problems" lay with our former cult leaders.

Oops, I meant beat pillows yelling that............... really I did!

How anyone can squeeze Christian into a program like Momentus? Christ died for your sins but now beat this pillow blaming your saintly Christian parents. Honor your Father and Mother which is the first commandment with promise, the promise being you can blame them for being screwed up enough to follow men that think Momentus is Christian

I actually told the family "You do it". They had to do all the planning and taking care of the details, I refused because this time I am not going to be the "strong one" Thanks for the advice, I am going to grieve; TWI doctrines be damned!

Sand in the shell of an oyster turns into a pearl.

Not all irritations are bad.

Unless you are the oyster.......

:jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:

Thank you all again. Today was much better than yesterday.

Thank-you all for the prayers and good thoughts.

Her suffering is over and that is good.

I am devastated and for the first time in my adult life unable to "deal" with things.

O Lord my God, When I in awesome wonder,

Consider all the worlds Thy Hands have made;

I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,

Thy power throughout the universe displayed.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,

How great Thou art, How great Thou art.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,

How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

When through the woods, and forest glades I wander,

And hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees.

When I look down, from lofty mountain grandeur

And see the brook, and feel the gentle breeze.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,

How great Thou art, How great Thou art.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,

How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;

Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;

That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,

He bled and died to take away my sin.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,

How great Thou art, How great Thou art.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,

How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

When Christ shall come, with shout of acclamation,

And take me home, what joy shall fill my heart.

Then I shall bow, in humble adoration,

And then proclaim: "My God, how great Thou art!"

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,

How great Thou art, How great Thou art.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,

How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

Some of my earliest memories are of the most beautiful, faithful woman to walk on this earth singing this song and songs like it. She had an angelic voice that filled the churches she sang in. When she sang the chorus, the places were always silent, even babies stopped crying.

She died last night around 2 am after an extended illness

RIP Mother

Whipping Post

ABB

And feel free to answer my other question first chance you get.

I know I am on the edge of my seat waiting.

To publicly deny promoting the programs which they have done and then privately still promote shows and incredible degree of dishonesty on the leaders parts. Why is that so hard to see?

I saw them brag about dropping the damn thing only to turn around and push it on Groucho. I doubt the freakin program works at all if it leads to this type of "spirituality" and I know it does.

I would say if Christ were the head of their organization a lot more honesty would radiate from their hollowed walls and not all this devilish, sensual, fleshy programs they like to lie about.

Stem cells offer a much better resource than monkeys as far as Parkinson's research is concerned. Remember the controversy surrounding Michael J. Fox's commercial about whether or not he took his Parkinson's medications? The message of the commercials was to vote for people who would allow stem cell research because it is so much better than using monkeys.

Sure, you show me how they can drill and wire stem cells to see if the idea will work as they proved with the monkeys so the man could live a much more normal life, then I will consider the argument.