VeganXTC

Full Circle, you are too funny! All your posts are hilarious!

I hated the farm smell. I don't know the specific cause, but it smelled horrible.

And am I remembering correctly, was it the ROA where we couldn't use our own shampoo or conditioner or soap? It was bad for their system, I think, so we had to use what was supplied. It made my hair feel like straw.

Sitting in the big top for the evening teaching, where everyone came, and everyone smelled! UGH!!!

We spend about $130 a week for groceries, but that includes paper and cleaning products also.

Right now, its Drty and I, and our son. Our daughter comes home most vacations and summers, and our food bill goes up a little.

We shop at a supermarket called PicknSave, and supplement food we cannot buy there with food from a local health food store. Most of the time, the food at the health food store is cheaper, even though its not a co-op. In the summer, we shop at farmer's markets, and usually plant a small garden.

If you want to eat healthy but not spend alot, I would start by planning meals around whats on sale and whats in season. The store brand is usually cheaper, and just as good. And watch the convience foods. I love those bags of baby carrots and salad, but it would be alot cheaper if I bought whole carrots and chopped them up, or tore up my own lettuce. And don't be afraid to try new foods. Make friends with the produce manager and ask if you can try the passionfruit before you buy any.

Stem cells offer a much better resource than monkeys as far as Parkinson's research is concerned. Remember the controversy surrounding Michael J. Fox's commercial about whether or not he took his Parkinson's medications? The message of the commercials was to vote for people who would allow stem cell research because it is so much better than using monkeys.

JAL said:

If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you. I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me.

If he is so open to dialogue, why does he make such disparaging comments about the posters on Greasespot? How does this show the love of Christ? How do these words glorify God?

Bluzeman asked:

If their was a very promising treatment or even cure for aids, and the ONLY way to find out if it is safe is to test it on say, rhesus monkey's first, would you be against that? And again, I'm saying if it was the ONLY way to test it to see if it's safe. Now, next question. What if there was an alternative but it would take 5 years longer to conclude wheather or not it's safe? Would you tell all of those people who are in the final stages of the disease that there is a possible cure but due to laws banning animal testing, it won't be available until your already dead?

There ARE other safe ways to test besides using animals. As far as AIDS, non-animal clinical, epidemiological, and in vitro studies have found the virus that causes AIDS and have shown how the virus is spread in people. Researchers relied on epidemiology and in vitro lab work to identify, track, and isolate new strains of HIV before they spread. These methods were recently responsible for stopping an epidemic of drug-resistant AIDS in New York City. There ARE faster ways to test than using animals. Every HIV vaccine that passed animal testing has failed in human clinical trials. They can't even get an animal infected with HIV unless they are injected with many different strains, and that is not the strain people are infected with. There is no excuse for using animals for testing.

I don't think that PETA is presuming to judge what is cruel and what is not. I think they, and other animal rights groups, are trying to show that it is unethical to use animals unnecessarily.

I went to a woman's advance in TWI once when I was a single young woman of 19. We could write down any questions we had, and at the end of the advance they would be answered by Dottie M.

There was one question where a woman was asking for help. Her husband wanted to have sexual intercourse at least 5 times a day. The woman didn't want to have intercourse that often, and asked what should be done. Dottie basically told her to stop complaining, and be thankful she had a husband who wanted to make love to her. (Except she didn't say it so nicely.) Dottie said there were alot of women who would love to be in her shoes.

Then I heard on here that she counselled women who were sexually assulted and/or raped. I can just imagine what she said to them.

Sorry, I know this is off topic. I just think there was a lot of insensitive things said in TWI, and if "leadership" said it, it became doctrine. No one in TWI ever said sexual assault was godly, but I believe alot of people didn't know the difference between assault and love.

I'm glad you don't condone arson. But do you condone breaking and entering? Grand theft? Trespassing?

The Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and Earth Liberation Front(ELF) are criminal groups. And should be prosecuted. You don't "make a point" by breaking into labs and stealing the research animals. And that is is MILD compared to some of their activities.

During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country. During the past several years, special interest extremism, as characterized by the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), has emerged as a serious terrorist threat. Generally, extremist groups engage in much activity that is protected by constitutional guarantees of free speech and assembly. Law enforcement becomes involved when the volatile talk of these groups transgresses into unlawful action. The FBI estimates that the ALF/ELF have committed more than 600 criminal acts in the United States since 1996, resulting in damages in excess of 43 million dollars.

Full Story HERE.

I do not condone breaking any law under any circumstance. And I think all crime should be punished. But I think the punishment should fit the crime. Labeling an animal rights activist a terrorist is a scare tactic from the McCarthy era.

What about animal testing that could result in saving lives? Are you against that? Ingrid Newkirk(Co-founder and president of PETA) IS.

PETA opposes all animal testing, even for research that is aimed at finding cures to life-threatening diseases. Says Newkirk, "Even if animal tests produced a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." She has often criticized such groups as the Pediatric AIDS Foundation, the March of Dimes, and the American Cancer Society for using laboratory animals in their research aimed at finding cures for diseases. When asked if she would oppose an experiment on 5,000 rats if it would result in a cure for AIDS, Newkirk replied, "Would you be opposed to experiments on your daughter if you knew it would save fifty million people?"

Quoted from THIS site.

Once again, I want to point out that I myself love animals. If I saw someone intentionally infllicting pain on an animal for no reason I would more than likely try to stop them. I have no problem with people who don't want to see animals suffer for NO reason. But I would be hard pressed to tell someone dying of aids or cancer, well the bad news is, we can no longer do any research to find a cure for you. But hey! Good news is, no more lab rats will die in trying to find a cure! Oh, uh, sorry bout your luck.

I am against animal testing. There are better, faster, cheaper, and more reliable methods to find cures for human diseases. The thalidomide children, among many others, will tell you what works on animals won't necessarily work on humans.

I asked before but got no answer. Who get's to define what curelty is? Owning pets? Riding horses? Would you ban those? a LOT of peta members would. Would you ban hunting? MOST peta members would.

PETA supports giving companion animals homes, and riding horses. PETA also has "no quarrel with subsistence hunters and fishers who truly have no choice in order to survive." Where are you getting your information?

I'm asking these things seriously V-XTC. Not trying to be combative. Or trying to single you out...these questions for for anyone reading who supports animal rights and peta.

I believe you, but I think I'm the only one on the board who supports animal rights, and PETA. It would be cool if I wasn't! :)

Rick

Hap- thanks for the links that tell about protein, and for telling how to find vegan recipes. One of these days I'll get into the kitchen to post some of mine. Have a fun weekend!

Rhino- My daughter's roomate has two pet rats, but they're neither sewer or lab. They're spoiled though!

Ductape- Maybe some won't wear leather because they are allergic to it, or because they can't afford it. When I smoked cigarettes, I wouldn't wear suede because smoke stays in that fabric longer and smells really bad.

Bluzeman-Wow, lots of hard questions. I'll do my best to answer them all. Maybe I should do the quote thing?

She's an extremely gifted artist.

It bothers me that there are claims of visions from God, then this blue eyed, blond haired child paints Jesus as a green eyed, white man.

That's really sad, Templelady. I understand and agree that there needs to be a law to protect children, but those examples prove to me that the law needs to be revised.

Potato, according to what you wrote, and what Templelady posted about the law's definition of assent, I would consider the act between the husband and wife a rape.

Bluzeman said

To the ones here who are supporters of Peta, how do you feel about ALF and ELF? Would you support them also? I wonder because I would think that there are even certain issues with Peta that not all activists would support.

There's a lot of stuff that PETA does that I don't agree with, like giving literature to children. As far as ALF goes, here's what their website says.

Official ALF guidelines are: (1) to liberate animals from places of abuse; (2) to inflict economic damage to industries that profit from animal exploitation; (3) to reveal the horrors and atrocities committed against animals behind locked doors, and (4) to take all necessary precautions against harming any human or nonhuman animals.

I do not condone the use of arson or destruction of property, as a means of getting your point across. But I don't think ALF is just trying to make a point. I think they're trying to save lives. How far would you go to save a life?

These are some of the passages that are used to say that being slain in the spirit is biblical: Gen.15, 17:1-3; Josh.5:13-15; Ez.1:28,43;1-5, 44:4; Mt.17:5-6; Rev.1:7, 7:11, 11:16-17; Acts 9.

Except for that small blip in PFAL where VPW talks about kicking people slain in the spirit, I've never really thought about it. To me, its kind of like raising holy hands. Its not for me, but I don't see any harm in it.

I love the coffee theme! Thanks to all who worked so hard to bring it together. And thanks Tom and Belle, for decoding the envelopes!

Sudo, I can't get your last one to play, but maybe its for the best. :unsure: I found this one on YouTube.

Neatloaf

1 medium onion, diced

1 large garlic clove, minced

1/2 cup carrot, peeled and grated

1/2 cup celery, diced

1 package Yves Veggie Ground Round (I've seen it at my supermarket occasionally, and I hear Trader Joe's has it.)

1 1/4 cup dry whole wheat bread crumbs (lightly toasted or slightly stale)

1/4 cup oatmeal, cooked with 1/2 cup water

1 tsp ground cumin

1/2 tsp paprika

2 tbsp ketchup

2-3 tsp vegetarian Worcestershire sauce

Black pepper, to taste

1 tsp salt

Preheat the oven to 350F. Cover a baking sheet with aluminum foil.

Saute onion, garlic, carrots and celery in a large pan until tender, about 10 minutes on medium-high heat.

Combine vegetables, veggie meat, breadcrumbs, oatmeal and all spices in a large bowl and mix together. If it doesn't stick together easily, add a extra tbsp or two of dry breadcrumbs.

Turn mixture onto foil-covered pan and pat into a rectangular loaf about 2-in. high.

Bake for 1 hour to 1 hour 15 minutes until loaf is slightly firm to the touch.

Let cool for 15 minutes before slicing.

Serves 3-4.

Feel free to substitute the veggies and spices for whatever your family might like. Enjoy!

Psalmie, that's cool you're trying different foods! And I'll be sure to post my "neatloaf" recipe.

Ductape said:

animal rights activists (all veg*ns are)

Although many are, there are just as many that are not. Some eat a plant based diet for health reasons, some for religious reasons (seventh-day adventists, some Buddists, Jains, some Hindus), some for ecological reasons, some for econmonic reasons, (dried beans are cheaper than hamburger or chicken), and there are some people who just don't like the taste of meat.

And there are some animal rights activists who do cruel and even illegal things. But there are many who don't. Some bought veggie burgers at Burger King to give away so people could try them without spening their hard earned money. Some give abused or neglected animals homes. Some fight with their wallet, and refuse to buy products or services that exploit animals, including humans.

Rookie question -

Is it pronounced "Vee - gun"

Or "Vay - gan"....?

"Veh - jan"?

VEE-gun in my neck of the woods, but there's really no right or wrong way. Its pronounced differently depending on where you're from.

Ron, didn't you start a thread a while ago about people giving away the PETA comic books to kids? I'm sorry the activists' campaigns you've come across have been so awful. If that were my only exposure to animal rights, I'd be protesting on the other side.

And you are absolutely right. Its not just about dietary choice, at least for me, and I won't presume to speak for all veg*ns. Its about treating all living things with dignity and compassion.

Thanks for your reply, Ron. It helps to know not everyone's contact with animal rights has been about peace and love.

Belle said

Almost like reformed smokers can also be the most offensive and most offended by smokers in their vicinity.

Ah! I totally understand this one. And I'll be the first one to agree that there are veg*ns that are so obnoxious that I don't want to be around them. But what I find so bewildering is the extreme reaction. Its not so bad as the gay community experiences; no one has been killed because they are veg*n, at least that I know of, but well, here's an example.

People who are pro- life protest with signs that say, "Abortion stops a beating heart." They sing kum-by-yah, and go home at the end of the day.

People who are animal rights activists protests with signs that say, "A hamburger stops a beating heart." Someone drives by and throws garbage at us, usually rotting meat. We sign kum-by-yah, and the police come saying we are disturbing the peace.

So, what I don't understand, why is there no reaction to the pro-life protest, lots of negative reaction to the animal activists? Or maybe every protest has trouble, and I just don't see it.

Ductape, this isn't my thread, but why wouldn't you be able to post?

That was great, TheHighWay!

And I'm with Belle. That would be so cool to be able to hear it sung on Greasespot Radio.

Free at Last, I took CF&S with my mom, too. At least I was 19. But it was really embarrassing for me. I felt like I was sitting with my mom at the porn show watching the nickle movies. Craziness! Then we would split into two groups (men and women) and talk or ask questions about what we saw. Like either my mother or I would ask anything!

I pretty much hated all the other classes, except "Renewed Mind." I still use a lot of the stuff I learned in that class.

I want to make it clear that the hate and rage I have experienced has not come from Greasespot. I love posting here, and I enjoy the humor (CoolChef, hell yeah, we're buds!) and the insight, and the great hearts that are here.

I think some types of people I will never understand, like those who hate because someone is different, in whatever way. But that's a whole different thread.

Wow! Well, Bluzeman, thanks for starting this thread, and thanks to everyone else your your kind, well thought out responses, and all the great jokes.

So, I guess the anger comes from veg*ns trying to force our lifestyle onto omnivores, if I'm reading the responses correctly. I dunno, I'm a little slow, but I don't understand. I was in a cult where I tried to convert everyone I saw. I went door to door witnessing. I went mall witnessing. I went WOW so I could take a whole year trying to make people believe exactly the same way I do. And I never experienced the hatred that I get from being vegan.

When I was with TWI, if you didn't believe the way I did, that was the end of you! I had nothing to do with you. I thought you were demon posessed, or born from the devil himself. Now, that I'm vegan, I'll still want to be with you no matter how you feel about animals, and share your joys and sorrows, and be part of your life. And while I may wish you treated animals the way I feel they should be treated, I don't think anyone is evil. But I have heard more vile insults and degradation in my short time of being vegan than I have in all the years I was with TWI.

I guess I just don't understand the amount of anger. Sure, veg*ns are annoying. But why the rage?

I've found that animal rights can be an explosive issue. A friend of mine was yelled and cursed at in public by a complete stranger. Her crime? Her shirt had "Vegetarian" written on it. I can't count how many people I've made angry by the fact that I don't believe animals were meant to be used for human profit.

I love animals as much as people. I care about people as much as animals. I don't think anyone should have to suffer needlessly.

I didn't think Dot was offensive. I don't think my point of view is offensive, either. I don't understand where the anger is coming from.

Hi Bumpy!

I work with two women from Africa, one from Senegal, and one from South Africa. I enjoy hearing their stories. It sounds beautiful in both parts, and the food they bring to share is to die for! I'm sorry you're having a hard time there.

As far as the fall of TWI/CES they may be dying, but they aren't dead yet. There are still people suffering abuse at both. I imagine Greasespot will be around until the end, or at least I hope so. There are people who have been able to leave TWI/CES because of Greasespot. I imagine there might be more. It would be a shame to close up shop now.

I use to be part of the purple rain movement. :)