firebee

I agree, if "winning someone to the Lord" is an or only indication, we are all in deep kimchee.

My thoughts are this:

1. Diciples told Paul not to go through the Spirit (vs.4)

2. Philip's 4 daughters prophesied (what they said we really don't know but in the conext of this scripture..........????????)

3. Agabus, a prophet, said "thus saith the Holy Ghost........."

4. All of the people around Paul at that time heard and saw these events and warned Paul not to go (vs. 12)

Paul went and we know what happened. Was it God's will that Paul go to Jerusalem?......I don't think it was and that is why they (those who were with Paul at the time said to Paul collectively) "we cease saying [to you, Paul] the will of the Lord [don't go to Jerusalem] be done."

After being throughly or is that thoroughly.....anyway whatever.......lovingly reproved and tenderly corrected by Sir Padre Rafael I am now renewed in my thinking.

Thank you Father Raf for helping me see the error of my evil, independent thought patterns and gently bringing me back to the prevailing idea in the promised land of group togetherness.

Where do I send the check?

Sir, yes sir

I hate VP...I hate VP...I hate VP...I hate VP

I think this verse sets the context:

Act 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.

Then further in the chapter:

Act 21:8 And the next [day] we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was [one] of the seven; and abode with him.

Act 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy

Act 21:10 And as we tarried [there] many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.

Act 21:11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver [him] into the hands of the Gentiles.

Act 21:12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.

Act 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 21:14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.

Act 21:15 And after those days we took up our carriages, and went up to Jerusalem.

Without delving into the Greek I would have to agree with Zix, that VP may have gotten this one right. I think that everyone around Paul at that time, after several attempts to dissuade him from going on this journey to Jerusalem, basically quit saying "the will of the Lord be done" to Paul and they let him go on his way.

Good Luck??????????????? just kidding

I really don't know

Doesn't verse 14 fall into context with the prohet Agabus and what he prophesied about Paul's girdle?

Something that I remeber from PFAL is that Jesus did not have holy spirit until he was baptized by John, and that was "proof" that Jesus was not God.

Look into somebody's eyes, in there you may find a "soul" perhaps someone to hold.

Jesus was and is the Christ, and though I personally was not there in his time on earth, I would have to say that he looked (gazed) into the eyes of them he spoke with.

Not a passing glance or a "look over" that VP did so well. Jesus saw because he looked, not at the flesh and the inherent sin of it, he saw that there was sin in the flesh and tried to heal it. He gave his life for our sin and in doing so God was able through Christ to make recompense for the evil that Satan holds dear.

[This message was edited by firebee on January 01, 2003 at 18:10.]

CYA

been there, done that-used to be a social worker

Have you ever looked into a persons eyes, really looked deep inside? Have you felt the shame and sorrow of their torment?

Or the utter joy of their success?

[This message was edited by firebee on January 01, 2003 at 17:05.]

Cy

Glad to hear all is peachy keen with you.

How do you help and assist those who are less fortunate than you, I mean outside of quoting scriptures and other general PFAL type stuff?

Have you fed any who are poor, housed any who are homeless, cared for any that may be dying?

It is good to see that you have the following: " My own life is wonderful: great family, fellowship ,great job. good surf and a God whose Word I understand. Love Ya' all"

God Bless indeed

Didya really have to yell that loud, Cy

You said and I quote:

"DO YOU GUYS REALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE "FIVE SENSES" UNDERSTANDING AND THE "SPIRITUAL" UNDERSTANDING, PFAL HAS BOTH. SAME WORDS, DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING. ONLY BY MASTERING IT WILL YOU BE ABLE TO DISCERN THE DIFFERENCE. THE CHALLENGE IS YOURS- GOD BLESS"

After cleaning my sore ears from the yelling, if I master PFAL in all of its God-breathed glory, does that get me one step closer to heaven? If it does then I will climb on that Glory train.

If it doesn't get me any closer, may I yell back "GO TO HELL YOU HERETIC.....GOD BLESS"

There is no challenge

Zshot............

sent a cyber cake earlier

Ditto to what Kit sent

Hope

If you got any extra, send a few this way

Didn't VPW and TWI teach on numerous occaisions that putting anything before or in front of God was idolatry?

VP studied Stiles, Bullinger, etc. In his writings VP clearly used words written by others and placed them as his own (plagarism).

Does that mean that the words VP stole (borrowed) from others is also equally God-breathed?

By further extension, that has to mean that anyone speaking(using) Vp's words are also uttering divine truth.

Mike

I e maied you yesterday.......did you get it?

it was the red pill

The Jim Carey movie you mentioned was 'Truman' I think

I thought it was the blue pill

Gotta see the movie again, but I will take your word for it

VPW says Christ is absent, and now we hear that he is hidden in the collaterals?

What a game of hide and seek..............

Here's a little more from Mr. Dicks' thesis:

quote:

---

CHAPTER FIVE

A RESPONSE TO WIERWILLE'S PNEUMATOLOGY

Having responded to Wierwille's "law of logic" and faulty " trichotomy," we must now critique his pneumatology.

Differentiating between the Holy Spirit and holy spirit is crucial to Wierwille's entire theology. This chapter will respond to his pneumatology on the following five points; (1)

plagiarism; (2) Wierwille's hermeneutical rule for interpreting pneuma ; (3) the inconsistencies amoung the editions of

Receiving the Holy Spirit Today ; (4) the personal pronouns of Jn. 14; 15; and 16; and; (5) Rom. 8:26.

Closing the chapter, questions are posed concerning another of Wierwille's

"laws," which says, "God can only give that which He is."

Attitude . Before addressing the particular arguments of Wierwille, a prevailing attitude of Wierwille's must be noted. That attitude is that he is, without doubt, correct in his interpretation of the Bible.

---

If he (Wierwille) lied about the snow in Tulsa and the gas pumps, what stopped him from misspeaking anything else?

Here is a site that might interest you Mike.

http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/w17.html

Go to the "Articles" section and read what Donald E. Dicks Master's thesis has to say. It is in PDF format, so you will need Adobe Acrobat. I'll attempt to convert my download of the paper and share snipets when and where needed.

This is part of what Mr. Dicks has to say about Wierwille's work in print. This is pertinent to your discussion of the "print/tape" record you are so fond about.

quote:

---

APPENDIX C

DECHOMAI AND LAMBANO

This discussion is secondary to salvation because

Wierwille does acknowledge that someone may be born-againwithout speaking in tongues. However, by speaking intongues, one knows absolutely and objectively that God dwells in them and that they are saved.

Wierwille sees a distinction between a subjective

receiving and an objective receiving. On page three of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today he says:

Have you received the holy spirit, the power from on high? Many Christians believe that pneuma hagion , holy spirit, is automatically received at the time of salvation. They believe that when a person confesses Jesus Christ as his personal lord and savior, he receives

eternal life which is pneuma hagion , holy spirit.

This is not the whole truth. Apparently there is something more after salvation for the Christian to receive, lambano , into manifestation.

The objective reception is noted by means of speaking in tongues.

The major problem with Wierwille's argument for the distinction between dechomai and lambano is Wierwille's apparent limited knowledge of Greek. He defines dechomai as a subjective reception of holy spirit. Though he does not state the reason for his definitions, it may be because dechomai is a verb in the passive voice.

As H.E. Dana and J.R. Mantey in their Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament on page 161 state: "The passive voice is that use

of the verb which denotes the subject as receiving the action ." Thus, Wierwille may be defining dechomai as a passive, subjective, non-objective, personal verb based on its being in the passive voice.

What Wierwille fails to note, or know, is that

dechomai is a deponent verb. Deponent verbs are passive in voice, but active in meaning. From page 163 of their Grammar, Dana and Mantey explain:

Deponent verbs are those with middle or passive form, but active in meaning...The distinctive fact about the deponent verb is that its voice form is different from its voice function. Thus [ dechomai ] means I receive, and not I receive myself or I am received.

In other words, dechomai is a verb of action.

Lambano is in the active voice and is a verb of

action also. Both lambano and dechomai mean to receive or to take. To define one as a subjective reception and the other as an objective reception is an unwarranted distinction.

In Appendix I of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today , Wierwille lists "every reference in the New Testament where the roots dechomai and lambano are found." In truth,

Wierwille's lists are far from complete.

---

If Wierwille's PFAL series is in fact as stated by another? poster other than you then I think that God has lost His mind.

quote:

---

"Some that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed."

"None that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed."

The second sentence is rather strained grammar and logic. It also

radically contradicts what Dr. wrote on page 34 of the Green Book: "...you

will find that every word I have written to you is true." I believe for

these and other reasons it must be rejected in favor of the first sentence.

---

Mike, for your own good, and those who love you, my advice is simple: Worship God and love Him, put Jesus Christ and his Father in the central part of your heart. Wierwille is NOT God.

I never did get to see you play at a club or for that matter a smaller venue.

I DID however get to listen to your music, and see you perform at many ROA's( the early years) and to this day you remain in my mind's eye.

I can still "see" you with your suit and dark colored glasses, as well as "hear" you belt out the songs with your soul...........

As the kids say.......you 'are da bomb'

Thanks for you and your music

who's there?

where did you get the original picture & animation from? That would be a starting point from where I may be able to help.

I'm willing to try