Galen

That is great!

Thats great!

Congratulations :)

I guess someone has to do it. :)

Jerry,

I hang out but just don't post much any longer. So many folks come through here and then we never see them again only to be replaced with a new crowd. And then THEY disappear. Its the way of things, I guess.

sudo

Did you expect to see something differently?

I went into the chat room last Saturday night about 8:30 pm (EDT) but there was nobody there so I walked away from the computer.

Well, I completely forgot about the computer, fell asleep in front of the TV and when I came back around 3 AM to shut down the computer I was fascinated to see that quite a few forumers had come in, hung out, chatted, and left.

So the room was empty when I went in and empty when I went out. (I actually learned quite a bit about a few of you from reading the chats that went on.)

It looked like it was quite a party. Sorry I missed you all.

Nice :)

... As for the "SIN" issue. Getting drunk is a sin, and we tried prohibition, but it didn't work. Very few people live their entire lives without getting drunk at least once, and even if they don't, that's okay they just commit some other sin. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So I think the "SIN" arguement is one that does not follow logic,... Something about logs and motes and eyes comes to mind, it's a non-sequitur.

...

The Bible clearly does not like drunkards. However getting drunk is harder to establish as a sin, and drinking is clearly not a sin.

Overly zealous christians tried to push their agenda that drink was sin, they failed. And it never changed the Bible, so as hard as they desire drinking to be a sin, the Bible still praises drink.

Homosexual sex is clearly pronounced to be a sin. It is never praised, nor allowed in the Bible.

So I do not see how these two things can be compared.

i don't know that you missed anything, but i miss you, and i am praying for you. this year has been the worst year of my life -- too painful even to bother going into ...

May God bless and comfort you.

Get some rest.

Have a drink on me, I love you sweat heart.

An oil reservoir exists underneath the ocean floor. It feels some bit of pressure from the weight of earth on top of it, plus the weight of the ocean.

A crack or fissure gets opened, a faultline if you will, which allows the oil to begin escaping on it's own. If there are any other shifts in faults in the region this faultline will likely open further.

How do you close and seal a faultline anywhere?

How do you seal it a mile down?

I think your best option may be to drop barge-loads of gravel alternating with sand in the area, and hope that while most of it will be carried away by the current, that a portion settles straight down and fills the fault. Eventually once you have built up a small mountain of fill on top of the fault the flow of oil should be lessened.

I would be concerned that any large explosion will open new faults in the region.

It is difficult to find a fellowship that 'fits'.

I got our gardens planted, but the list of projects seems to grow.

virtual drinks for everyone!

:)

Hey, all :)

No, actually things are going REALLY bad for me, truth be told. In the past seventeen months I've lost pretty much everything I had. Lost my job, then my house, then my pets, then my new job, then my apartment, then my car, and now my second wife is divorcing me. Hopefully no one else is that bad off here!

Ouch.

So what did you break a mirror?

Sorry, I missed that post...who said that classes were "gifted"?

Post #42

... I think this may be the big loophole in TWI's claim of complete ownership. Was The Way in Great Britain (Geer's former org) given rights to distribute anywhere? Or just the UK and Europe? If so, is it legal to distribute outside their "sales area"?

I do not know.

... I don't understand this statement. Are you saying that The Way of California that existed in the 70's, 80's etc and The Way West are one and the same?

Such was my understanding. The corporation that VPW started for Doop to lead and to have separate liability; was the same corporation which has withstood until today.

... I believe that all 50 "limbs", The Way of...Alaska, Alabama...Wyoming...etc...were incorporated in the states where they operated, the question is, where these corporations legally independent of The Way International?

could be?

To the best of my knowledge, the only period when PFAL class tapes were being handed out to individuals was during the fallout after Passing of a Patriarch, and I'd be willing to bet they weren't given out with the Way International's blessing.

Was it during that time, Galen (around 1986-89) that you were given the tapes?

Yes.

1985 to 1987.

... There was a whole underground "vibe" during that time. I know in Ohio, leaders still on twi's payroll were scrambling around trying to "save" PFAL one way or another, either by stashing the sets of class tapes or whatever, because they were caught up in Geer's thing and expected to get fired and lose access to the materials.

During that time I almost got roped into transcribing the class to "preserve" it , but then I decided it was silly, since we had our Bibles and most of us had sat through the class a bunch of times and had all the reading materials anyway. I think I only got through the first tape from the first session.

Yes that describes the era well.

Whereas the structure of TWI classes were loaned between limb, branch and twig.

And whereas some classes appear to have been gifted to individuals.

And whereas the Way of the UK was done by C. Geer to comply with British legal structure, and they were given full rights to distribute TWI publications and classes.

And whereas The Way of California was done by VPW and Doop to allow the Way West to flounder or prosper on it's own without pulling TWI with it.

Does anyone know if The Way of California was likewise given full legal authority to also distribute TWI publications?

I would imagine they were.

The last time that I checked [2002] the Way of California was still a legal entity in good standing in California.

I don't know why you would have not have been given an instructors guide with the tapes Galen ,but somewhere there was one. Session by session segment by segment it was mapped out. I'm looking at one as I speak.

Now that you do mention it, yes I do recall there being a guide on 'How to". It was most often found in the branch home, in the book store [if a branch had a bookstore]. Otherwise at limb.

What I remember was a check list of things to do in preparation for the class:

" Clean, have staff meet early, pray, straighten chairs, consider students' needs, clean again, provide parking, welcome students, blah, blah "

And the pages that had the phrases and times for the flip-charts.

Allow me to re-phrase, I do not recall a legal contract nor explanation of who the class had to be given back to. There was a 'copyright' statement, like every book has in it.

I certainly never signed anything.

And I did not always get the class guide.

I recall a few times, doing the flipcharts without the list of phrases and times. Often getting the class was such a massive fight that to go back and get the binder too was out of the question. There was likely an inexperienced someone somewhere whose 'need' for it was greater.

Looking back, I guess it would make sense. When multiple classes are running, and one class is being done by someone without experience and confidence, they would likely latch onto the class guide with teeth and claws. So if the class is being spread out over multiple Twigs, who gets the guide? Who ever says they need it the most.

Once the shift to video was done. It all became easier.

... what I really want to know is if there was a contract specifying the use of the tapes when they were given to the individuals. you said there was something they signed regarding care of the tapes and running the class, but was it a contract for the return of the tapes when specific conditions were met? because if it wasn't, then twi did not retain any legal ownership rights.

When PFAL was handed to a TC for the purpose of running a class no documents were ever signed. No 'agreement' was negotiated. You were given the class to run it. Nothing else was considered.

The only 'briefing' that I ever got when doing PFAL classes for TWI, was that sometimes I would have to get a segment from another TC, and when done I had to pass it off to a third TC. Because there were so many classes running at the same time. that was the only form of briefing, or conditions put on handling the class.

Glad you found him, Galen. Hope he's doing okay.

WG

Yes, he is doing great!

Two beautiful daughters too. :)

Hi Galen -

Thanks for that snapshot. How you received the PFAL class material sounds familiar...

You are welcome.

... He said the attitude in Europe at the time was "if those Yanks don't give a dam, fine, we don't either".

I think that sums it up well.

... It was no great secret that as people left the Way in the late '80's, early '90's they were carting out all kind of things, copies and originals, of whatever they'd stashed away. It's shown up over the years, sometimes with explanations of rights and ownership, some with no explanation at all.

I agree.

... P.S. How'd your house go?

Okay. We ran out of money so the construction stopped. Focusing on livestock now, orchards, greenhouses, and sustainable living stuff.

We have goats and sheep, chickens and hogs.

I hope to finish the leech field this summer, then add a garage before fall.

We still need to finish the interior, and then the wrap-around porch.

We have been canning a lot of food, sharing with neighbors, and hosting weekly dinners in our home with neighbors.

Our chest freezer is full, and we are finding that we actually eat far less than we had thought. I have a 55-gallon drum outside buried in a snow bank full of frozen meats. Our chest freezer is full, and we just don't have any more room inside to store frozen food. We have played with freeze-drying food, but I need a better vacuum chamber.

I have a bunch of taps that I am working in some of our maple trees. but no finished syrup yet. Hopefully soon.

Our bees have not been doing so well, but we have one colony that is still surviving. I hope to split it into two colonies this spring.

So really there has not been much going on here.

We have gotten back involved with a TWI twig. I have attended their 'new' foundational class. I have rather avoided GSC as there tends to be a lot of anti-TWI attitudes here. Our Region Coordinator is a guy who I witnessed to.

May God bless you. :)

Hello everyone.

Thank you, folks who notified me that I was being discussed here. :)

I told Bonnie about the Ebay ad, she said that she thought that had lost their decimal point.

It seems to me that the topic of copyright has been discussed many times previously. To my knowledge I was handed PFAL by an authorized entity, for a purpose. And I have tried to stick to the spirit of that purpose. If that was actually violating some copyright policy in some manner, I do not know. I have never sold PFAL.

'Way West' [The Way of California] handed me PFAL video in 1985. I was told to hold on to it, to run the class as needed, to hide it if needed. There were things within PFAL that needed to live-on. Bad things were happening within TWI and solid Twig Coordinators should have it.

The implication was that they were concerned PFAL was going to disappear.

The incident happened as a result of my twig having a group of new people signed up, and we had to wait for months, while fighting with WC personnel for the privilege to run a class. I was very angered at the time, as WC were running classes everywhere, but non-WC were only hitting road-blocks and being treated as if we were not believers, regardless of how many classes we had ran in the past. An elitist attitude had taken over.

At the time, I was out of the Navy attending college. I had previously been a part of twigs underwater and had seen PFAL ran underwater. Dave Liphold ran most of the underwater PFAL classes [he is the region Coordinator of Colorado I think].

In 1985 I was leading a Twig in Merced California. An orphaned twig between the branch of Modesto and the branch of Fresno. Each year we kind of alternated between those two branches, but neither of them really considered our Twig within their 'umbrella'. We ran PFAL a few times, but had more and more problems since I did not wear the secret decoder ring to allow me to be an elite member. And then we ran PFAL a few times using the PFAL that I was given.

I returned to the Navy in 1987. My next duty station was in Scotland. Where we coordinated a Twig and PFAL classes. Our Twig made trips sometimes to Gartmore, though we were told that we were not a part of the UK's TWI. And that I had to function as "Country Coordinator for Americans living in the UK". We did run PFAL classes there, however it was an even bigger struggle. We had local WC, but they treated us as outcasts. HQ treated us in a similar manner. I did not run our PFAL as I did not fully understand what was happening to 'leadership', and I refused to believe that TWI leadership would abandon it's followers in such a manner. Chris Kent visited our Twig once to deliver us PFAL, but when he saw that we were studying the Bible and had no decoder rings he refused to give it to us and he left. After much communication with HQ and Paul Norcross, Kent came to our home a second time. On his second trip, some of our new students laid hands on Kent and showed him the strength of their desire to attend PFAL. Being so encouraged Kent did give us PFAL tapes to run for the Twig, after I took possession of those tapes, our new students released Kent and he left. We then ran PFAL classes a few times while in Scotland. And I returned their PFAL tapes when I left Scotland.

Our struggle to run PFAL classes within TWI continued with each of the Twigs that I ran until I was thrown out in 1997 for refusing to burn TWI published materials [whose authors had been labeled 'mark and avoid'].

I have never sold PFAL; nor have I ever charged anyone to attend a PFAL class ran outside of the TWI umbrella.

My PFAL was all transfered to DVD years ago.

I have been offered PFAL on DVD from other fellowship coordinators, who likewise were handed PFAL during that era.

May God bless you.

:)

Hey, all!

:)

Two more bullae found which further prove the historical accuracy of the Bible

http://members.bib-arch.org/publication.as...mp;ArticleID=21

Two bullae (seal impressions) found during archeological excavations of Nehemiah's wall [the original wall had been built by David, then was torn down during Jeremiah's time, and rebuilt by Nehemiah] are bringing the Book of Jeremiah back to life.

The first bullae surfaced in King David’s palace during the opening season of excavation bears the name Yehuchal [or Jucal in English] ben Shelemyahu [shelemiah].”

The second bullae was found in the First Temple period strata underneath Nehemiah’s Northern Tower, just a few yards away from the first, and reads “Gedalyahu [Gedaliah] ben Pashur.”

Seal impressions found in the locations where the Bible accounts say those men would have been is fascinating, and offers yet further physical evidence of these Biblical books being truthful, as they prove that these men, by name, existed, and at that time they did carry authority.

For the story of David see 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles

For the story of Jeremiah see 2 Chronicles 36, Ezra 1:1, the book of Jeremiah chapters 1 thru 52

For the story of Nehemiah see the book of Nehemiah chapters 1 thru 13

Jucal the son of Shelemiah was a minister of the king and is listed in Jeremiah 38.

Gedaliah the son of Pashur was also a minister of the King and is listed in Jeremiah 38.

It was indeed Ernest Martin; his book, The Birth of Christ Recalculated, is mentioned as one of the sources in the bibliography of Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed, though most Way and Ex-Way people wouldn't recognize his name. He has since expanded his writing, in the book The Star That Astonished the World. Here is a link to a page where you can read the book on line, which also has audio interviews and an interactive video by the Griffith Observatory:

http://www.askelm.com/star/index.asp

Thanks

Paw -

Thank you

Paw -

Thank you,

May God bless you and keep you

Galen