agape99

I just want to chime in my two and a half cents. The topic of to love and forgive intrigue me. This is my personal conclusion (to myself and for myself through thinking and thinking) about God's word on forgiveness. Jesus never held onto grudges (which is really what not forgiving is doing). In my own personal life I found found that holding onto old hurts has never done me a lick of good. Actually, I found that it hurt me and stopped me from developing relationships in my life that would be helpful to me. I left TWI about a year ago now. Still talk to some of my WAY friends on occasion, but see no need associate what I feel is a more harm than good ministry. They hurt me deeply, and they hurt my spouse even deeper!!! Speaking for my family I can tell you that we really don't think about The Way anymore. To forgive has actually helped us let the whole thing GO... And MOVE ON... I love God and am currently still looking for a church. We will find one... I guess what I am really trying to say is forgive them for yourself if for no other reason. God will deal with the rest. These leaders who have abused your trust could care less either way, so why give them the satisfaction of stealing your peace? Let them them lead their miserable lives without the benefit of holding a chunk of your peace and your emotions. For me, I found A LOT of common sense in Christ's words when he told us to forgive. For me, it was self preservation. Very healing... This is just something that I worked from the word myself, and it made sense to me. It is not intended to be judgmental towards others. God Bless, Agape...

My question t them is this: "how can i grant forgiveness to someone who vehemently denies he/she committed any offense?".from what i can see, god has no problem forgiving anyone for anything if that person chooses to repent.....this process of repentance seems to precede god's granting of forgiveness.........as a matter of fact, it seems to me that forgiveness is predicated upon repentance.......... Don't Worry Be Happy, I see your point. However, as some have mentioned Stephen; I thought of the same man when I read your original post. For me, (and I only speak for myself) it comes down to not holding on to this the rest of my life. Some injustices have been laid against me by TWI leadership between 94-07, but I don't choose to hold on to it. They are clue-less and they will remain that way. I can't change their heart anymore than anyone else in here can. I just know for my own life I will follow Stephen's example. I'll forgive, I just won't forget. Not everything I got from TWI was good, and yet not all of it was bad either. I learned a lot of great stuff from them, and I learned some pretty bad doctrines at the same time. To quote John Juedes who I spoke with, "It will take you years to sort all of that out." I believe him. Not everything I learned was wrong, and not everything I learned was right either. TWI imposed leagalism on me, and helped destroy a good portion of my self esteem (I didn't have to let them, so I take accountability for my part). However, they also helped set me free from error that was keeping me enslaved that I learned from another church. In the end I have some things to work through. I was treated poorly at times by TWI, and treated well at other times. I have come to the conclusion that TWI is not a healthy environment for my family or myself. However, I do believe that there are lots of born again christians in TWI that I want to be respecful to. I was one of them. I looked on this site for two years without any of you knowing my presence. This site and empirenet helped me realize some things concerning TWI. I'm thankful for both. But what kept me from pulling the trigger and leaving TWI at times is the little part none of your realize. "They actually read this site!!!" They actually use your own words against you!!! I can't tell you how many times I heard something like, "The people on the internet are hard hearted" or "They don't move past their" fill in the blank. I'm not telling anyone to forgive anyone.. But for me? I'm not giving TWI the power of my resentment and anger. I'll confess my anger to God and ask for his mercy to help heal my heart. I'll take part on this site because I feel you guys care about the people in TWI, or you wouldn't bother writing about them 20 years after the fact for some of you. You are some of the most caring people this world has. In closing, if you have anger and need to let it out, please do. But lets not forget to share with people how this site has helped us heal as well. That's what people who are still in need to see. That there is life after TWI, that there is a relationship with God after TWI, that TWI doesn't hold all the knowledge of God, and most of all lets share with them that we have not lost that "HOPE" that God, and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ are still very much a huge part of our lives even after TWI. God Bless all of you, I Love You. agape99

I have to say that I looked at this site for over a year before officially joining (three years to be exact). I was a proud member of TWI while looking. I read an account or two, and said to myself, "Ah their just making this up, just like Rev. so and so said." I would read another account a few months later, and another, and another. Get the picture!!! At some point between all the stories on this site, all the damaging information on empirenet (which really can't be refuted), and a real look at was going on between my ears made me draw a conclusion. I WAS DECEIVED!!! I really am part of a cult. This ministry really did abuse people, and yes it really did mistreat people you once considered your friend (mark and avoid)... Then I had to look in the mirror and admit that: I was deceived, and that I, yes I, bought into the mindset so much that I blindly mistreated others by blindly following leaders who wrongly emotionally abused and cast out my fellow friends and christians. This was a hard pill for me to swallow! But I would still be in TWI if it were not for all the stories by so many that I COULDN'T IGNORE it anymore. Just as a side note TWI is allowing people to leave easier, and is not anywhere near as autocratic as it was. I'm not saying anyone should go back!!! I'm just saying new members might be harder and harder to come by for Greasespot for awhile. New TWI people are not going to some of this stuff again until their numbers get back up again. TWI understands that their membership is LOW... They understand that they need to treat people nicer right now. They even said so on the field a year and a half ago. This site and these stories are the stop gate to keep people OUT of TWI before they ever even get started. Not 14 years later when they finally realize that it's A CULT (I speak from experience). P.S. I would like to take this opportunity to say I'm sorry to anyone who was wrongly thrown out, and didn't have anyone have the back-bone to stand up for you. I can personally think back to a couple of times I should have gone down mark and avoid with one of my friends, and didn't. I apologize for that. But in the end I paid the price for it as well.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not destinded us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we wake or sleep we might live with him. Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing. (Revised Standard) I would say were doing that in this thread wouldn't you? I love the RSV.... I know some think the RSV and KJV are outdated but I love them. I also love the Good News translation. That's probably my favorite of the more modern translations. Love you guys, God Bless your heart...

Hello, I have recently left The Way International after 14 years of being in the ministry. I was never around during V.P. Wierwille's days, and I was really on the outside looking in for the most part after L. Craig Martindale left in disgrace. My time in TWI is a mixed bag. I met my wife there (whom I love dearly), I met some good people, learned a lot about God, got yelled at, got put down, was taught poisonous doctrines, became confused when Martindale blew it for the whole world to see, and never really recovered from being degraded by local leaders in the late 90's. That ultimately made me suspicious of them enough to search the internet (against their heated advice I might add). The internet woke me up! I realized I had allowed these people to control me, and to manipulate me. I take responsibility for not taking a stand against what I knew in my heart was corrupt. Many of you did and became mark and avoid for it (unjustly I might add). I can only ask forgiveness from those I should have stood up for, and to move on. There are a lot of people who love God in this world. The Way International does NOT hold the copywright on GOD. God will still work in your life after TWI, believe me when I tell you that. Last thing I would like to say is that 365 midnights have come and passed since I left TWI. I'm still not a grease spot. I will never forget the hurt on some of my fellow believers faces (along with shock and disbelief) when TWI played the Martindale incident for all the believers. It really shook some people. That made me sad.

For some people, I would say it felt like an electric fence.. they say all a farm animal has to do is to touch the fence just once.. then you can turn off the juice. It'll never touch it again. Mr. Hamarroni, I didn't feel an electric fence, an electric chair yes, an electric fence no. Honestly I'm still dealing with things in my head from my time there (it was very recent). I think back at how I wouldn't talk to people who were mark and avoid (even though looking back at it I can honestly say 99.9% of them did not deserve it). I remember I had a friend (a very good friend whom I loved dearly) who becamce mark and avoid after he sent LCM a huge letter about how local leadership were over stepping their boundaries. I found out about it in a meeting. Never talked to my friend again; I just sent him his books back in the mail. All the guy wanted to do was start his own karate studio. Local leadership accused him of getting all spiritually out of whack. I stayed.... I turned my back on my friend, and I am ashamed of that to this day. Funny thing is out of all the bad things that happened to me personally I'm OK with. I know I will overcome that. What I'm having a hard time with is the two people I turned my back on in the mid 90's while I was a WAY-BOT. That I'm having a hard time living with. That mark and avoid policy was pretty severe back in the 90's. Thank God for the people still in that they have calmed down on that one. BUT IT'S STILL A BOX!!!

Thank you Rainbow Girl for the warm welcome. Did I mention that in the Advance Class mid 90's I heard Mrs. Wierwille make a special point to mention that V.P. Wierwille never disputed learning from men such as Kenyan, B.G. Leanard, Bullinger, J.E. Stiles exc. I asked John Juedes if his site was up at that time with most the information it has on it now (plagerism, lying about his credentials, exc). John Juedes said that the site was up at that time. I only mention this because it seemed as though Mrs. Wierwille was trying to dispute Dr. Juedes site back then (I wouldn't have known it back then I had not looked at the site). One thing Mrs. Wierwille left out (God bless her I'll see her in the gathering together) is that V.P. never properly gave those men credit in his books (especially Receiving The Holy Spirit Today). That to me was the LIE that broke the camels back of all the lies.

Ya know Rascal you said TWI felt like a box. Funny thing I was talking to Dr. John Juedes about a week ago. I was emotionally exhausted from reviewing the internet sites for over a month, and even told him I was rethinking the last 13 years of my christian exsistance as a scam. I told John, "Even after LCM left over seven years ago now; TWI still feels like a box." It wasn't as bad as looking at our finances (make sure we were giving the mandated 10% if not more), they didn't force people to be out of debt or you were mark and avoid anymore (yes they really did that in spades I might add), and they have lightened up a lot. But it still felt LIKE A BOX... It still is no where near what some of you have described in other links as the good old days (I never saw the good old days). Why did I stay? I was looking for the truth of God's word, and I really felt I found it. I definately wasn't getting it from my local churches. Leadership had a way that could convince you that you can't find this out there anywhere else. I believed them. I take responsibility for that. I feel they are probably hurting for membership right now. When I mentioned to John that they had lightened up a little he reminded me of my own words, "Ya, but you said it still feels like a box." A box is a box is a box... I finally left (I was a DIE HARD TYPE) because the proof against them was so overwhelming. You couldn't dispute it, and it showed lies and cover up. I still think some of what they teach is good (partially because some of it is from great biblical minds such as Bullinger, Kenyan, B.G. Leanard, J.E. Stiles, exc), but I also realize I'm going to be getting bad TWI doctrine out of my head over the next couple of years as well. I was never around during the Wierwille days, I came right as LCM's classes took hold (mid 90's). I stayed because I wanted the word. I take responsibility for a lot of the abuse I took (nothing made me stay except my own fear of losing God's word). I should have been more critical of LCM (and local abusive Way teachers) as just a man, and worked the word myself a little harder. Heck I was scared Way Core might find out I was looking at this site a year ago. Just a note to all of you. There are may people who look at this site and NEVER post or sign up. I was one of them. Yes I was reading while I was in TWI and was being told not to. If you are reading this and your in TWI please understand that TWI does not hold the copyright to God's heart. There are a lot of churches and fellowships that love God too, and many (I didn't say all) of them teach the truth. You can move on after TWI. I'm just starting that journey, and I'm excited to have a relationship with God outside of TWI goggles.

I just left about a year ago. They are the same. I love the good people that still exsist in there, and they still have some good leaders. However, they still haven't really fixed what allowed LCM to do what he was able to do. They have not fixed their issues with sexual misconduct. If they have really lost membership that badly (and from what I remember they have) what they really should do is look in the mirror. They have not dealt with the underline issues. They tell their followers to stay off the net. My Way Core leader in 2002 stated, "Don't come to me if you look at that internet junk and it makes you all confused." Well I looked at it, and I'm not confused anymore. Why did I look at it (since I know they read this)? Because everyone I witnessed to looked at it, and then stated, "Hey man do you know what's on the internet about your church?" So I looked at it for myself. What did I find: story's of sexual misconduct, harrassment, suicide, rape, child predators, cover up, plagerism, and many other goodies. In the end any company, church, or entity (if they were truly innocent) that would not stage a counter to those types of attacks. Plus their was one web site that put V.P. Wierwille's Receiving The Holy Spirit Today right along J.E. Stiles book, and showed that it was a word for word copy of Stiles book. I learned a lot of great things from TWI. However, who can trust any organization that doesn't come CLEAN? Admit to a mistake and I will forgive you. Cover it up, and I will not trust you. Deceive me? I'm out the door.