DontWorryBeHappy

February 22, 2008

hi tonto!........great seein' ya here!..........so.......this is your favorite thread?............gawd!!!.............i can't bear the thought of reading 333 pages of posts to see why!!!!...........LOL!..............however, knowing you, i just may have to start reading!..........but, for now, i'll stick with enjoying NIKA's vivid reports on what sounds like a truly unforgettable family vacation!

NIKA...........thanks again for these posts!.......i totally understand you're not being able to share more about your hubby's work.........but, i remain excited about what he is accomplishing, and i'm looking forward to the time when you'll be able to share more about it...........thanks again!....................peace.

February 20, 2008

i know i was'nt in the ninth, so forgive my barging in to your turf............but, lovely NIKA..........i loved your post here about your trip to new zealand!........thanks for sharing.........i have vivid images in my mind........and.......as the Strange One said.........i too hope you have some more to share with us!......i am also very interested in hearing a bit more of how MR. NIKA'S research is going........a truly exciting work he's involved in!.........thanks again for a really great post!........welcome home!......and............peace.

February 20, 2008

hey there birthday boy!..........with all the great HD video gear and big screen tv's available these days, i rarely waste the money and go thru the hassle of "going to the movies" any more.............but, typically, guys like spielberg, scorcese, eastwood, and a few others, do make it worhtwhile spending the $25 it costs to see something on the "big screen"!..........looks like this will be the first one i'll go see since "the departed" and the last remake of "king kong"...........thanks for the heads-up!

February 19, 2008

YO.........MIKE!............don't feel badly that ham has not yet answered your question from your post #419 on page 21 of this thread........or, your post #421 on page 22 of this thread.............i asked a number of questions of the poster who started this thread in my post #37 on page 2 of this thread.........got no answers yet!!..........as a matter of fact, all i got was a blatant lie.........."no link".........from nathan friedly's last post on this thread!..........so, in my post #72 on page 4 of this thread, i asked a bunch more questions........to this date, after over 350 more posts to this thread......i still have not gotten an answer to any of those questions!...........so, in my post #84 on page 5 of this thread, i asked some more questions...........to date, still no answers to any of them!...............so, in my post #200 on page 10 of this thread, i asked some more of the same questions.......to date, still no answers to any of them!............so,.......here we are on page 22 of this thread, some 200 plus posts since my last post, and, still.......not one answer to any of my questions!!............you're doing great so far with getting answers to your questions.........but you have not answered those posed to you by T-Bone and others just a page or two ago..........so........here's a couple more for ya.........

when jesus christ returns, with pfal book in hand (as you've taught us he will)......will the "standard" by which we will be held accountable for "every word" we speak be according to pfal?........what "word" or words will jesus christ use to judge us by?..........is jesus christ done "working and studying" pfal yet?..........is he using your tapes and transcripts, or just what twi published under vic's name?.............feel free to take another couple of hundred posts to answer my questions if you need to........but, please answer T-Bone's and Doojable's and Ham's first!..................thanks!...............peace.

February 18, 2008

happy birthday to you kit!..............may you enjoy many more in health and strength and joy!...................peace.

February 18, 2008

hey GT!!............happy birthday young man!...........thanks for all you've done to make this a jazzy lookin' place and a message board that provides so many cool and fun things to do!.......hope you have a really good year of health, happiness and prosperity!....................peace.

February 13, 2008

hi linda z!........only "eight-cow men" experience PMS!.....................just like an "eight-cow woman"!.........................peace.

February 9, 2008

hi T-Bone!..........thanks for your last couple of posts!...........very interesting and powerful points and observations, imho!..............good sources you quote also.......i find your posts to be well constructed and thought through........with an incisive wit and thought-provoking...........you encourage critical thinking with a warm, empathetic understanding for the "bottom-line" common human condition!.........i appreciate your taking the time to provide us with thoughful, articulate posts!.........please keep 'em coming!

jeff scio............i appreciate your consistent even-handedness in communicating with us greasespotters!.......your determination to seek peaceful and mutually respectful dialogue here in the about the way forum while striving to keep an "open mind" and a patient objectivity, is also appreciated!..........i too would enjoy an answer or 2 to my questions as posted, clarified and reiterated on this thread!...........................peace.

February 7, 2008

hi all you greasespotters!.......it is interesting to note, that a few posters on this thread do not address any of the questions raised in my last post on this thread other than those they themselves infer from the last paragraph of that post! why do some folks become so alarmed and disturbed at the appearance of any post which accurately describes or recounts vic's ministry, and/or his extracurricular activities as our "father in the word'??......i have observed less passionate appeals for mercy for convicted murderers on death row than some of the emotionally charged pleas for us to "forgive" vic posted here!.....and, yes!..........this comparison is just as valid as the ones made here that we are somehow "bound by scripture" to forgive vic just like jesus christ forgave those who "know not what they do" during his crucifixion!

Sweet Pea..............who's in charge of "cutting a break"?..........no one "cut me a break" when i resigned from twi in the fall of 1986........at that time, much of the information about vic, lcm, and their sexual and fiduciary misconduct was available to clapp and the rest of twi's leaders......and, much, much more has been brought to light in the 22 years since!......yet, clapp chose to stand with and for twi during the years following POP through march of 1989........during those years, clapp chose to ignore or deny the facts brought to light concerning vic, the doofus from okie, and twi doctrines and practices........why??........that's almost 3 years of faithful support until the "pledge of allegiance letter" of march,1989 sent out by king okie and twi!.......why, in 1989, did clapp pledge his loyalty to the doofus from okie and twi despite the ever-growing volume of facts documenting lcm's gross misconduct and moral terpitude??.........this is a simple question, not an accusation!.......how was it that clapp was able to become martindale's "biblical research" confidant/advisor during the time in twi which produced such twisted, perverted doctrines and practices as the infamous "homo purge", absolutely "no debt", and the oh so godly "mark and avoid" fiascos?..........how could clapp support, reconcile and promote such utter perversions of christianity with the christian scriptures??....how was he able to faithfully and loyally carry out orders from martindale, or moynihan, and others, with a "clean conscience" during those years of 1989 through 1997?............when clapp finally left twi and ran to cff, what were the reasons/issues which prompted his departure after "going along" with king okie and da boyz in da hoods since pledging his allegiance to them in 1989?

you said, "these guys only want to continue in the ministry as their vocation without going the mainstream religion route that some of our other twi people have done. i have more respect for these guys than the other ex-Wayy Corps who are teaching crap just to make a buck."......really??...........i sure don't!........what "ministry" do they seek to "continue in" as their "vocation"?........what gives them this "vocation", or the right to continue in it without question?.......has there been any critical or objective examination of the thinking that created the problems of "the ministry" that clapp quit, and yet wants to "continue in"?........or, are they just re-packaging vic's products and re-marketing them to twi refugees?.........talk about "teaching crap just to make a buck"!...........you wrote, "cut them a break like you've been cut also"........did i miss something here?.........who "cut me a break"?..........when i left twi, in 1986, i did my best to speak the truth and facts about what was going on "behind the scenes " at twi..........i sought out those to whom i felt i owed any apologies, asked their forgiveness, and tried to hold twi's "feet to the fire" for a year and a half.........i re-examined everything vic taught and plagiarized so as not to repeat the same twisted thinking that hooked me in twi, brought twi down, and harmed so many human beings.........i felt then, and still do now, that this was my moral and christian responsibilty to god and his children........clapp, cff, and the other offshoots of twi want to "continue in the ministry" of vic and twi without taking any "time off" for objective examination of the thinking and doctrines of either!.....is that "cutting them a break"?..............when i left twi, i went back to school, changed "vocations", learned a new profession, and have been working full-time in the real world for the last 20 years.........something hundreds of other ex-way corps grads have done during those same 20 years!........i'm more than willing to cut clapp and the rest the same "break"............but, for some reason, they can't "cut it"........hence, my questions to them all as raised in the other paragraphs of my last post here besides just the last one!

and oldiesman becomes indignant at another poster when he states, "you're telling me what *i* saw?".........yet, on this very same thread, he presumes to tell the greasespot readers what my "outlook" on vic was when i resigned from twi 22 years ago!........how can he do that?......is he god almighty?........i can assure you all that oldiesman has NEVER talked with me regarding what my "outlook of dr. wierwille" was 22 years ago then, or at any time since!......his post is rife with inaccuracies and misinformation.......disinformation too!..........i resigned from twi in the late fall of 1986, and "announced" my resignation right then and there, not in some letter written months after the fact!.........sue pierce was also a signatory to that letter........why is that fact omitted?.....both sue pierce and robert belt resigned from twi in 1986, well before that letter was written.......they did not "announce " their resignations in that letter either!........tom reahard was still a "leader" in twi when that letter was written......he did not announce his resignation in that letter either..........john and pat lynn were both full-time employees of twi as limb coordinators when that letter was written.......they never resigned from twi.......they were fired by howard allen on april 1,1987, one of the "rersults" for them for participating in the writing of that letter!

now oldiesman is going to tell you all how and why that letter was written, 21 years later, as if he was there!......he does not know who wrote what parts of that letter.....he never participated in any of the deliberations or discussions surrounding its writing......and, he has no inkling of an idea of the what, why, where, when and how of its composition!........yet, he is somehow able to interperet for you all, the nuances of that letter which he has already inaccurately described, and totally misinformed you about!.......and, somehow, this letter of 21 years ago is relevant to my post about clapp and cff??.........oldiesman is completely ignorant about how and why that letter was written, let alone what the "outlook of dr.wierwille" was in the minds of those who wrote it!.........and, once again, what is that letter's relevance to my post??

in conclusion, i'd like to quote my friend al one more time, "whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods"...........thanks to you posters on this thread who keep those "gods" laughing!.........................peace.

February 7, 2008

hi wth!.........the question to which i am referring is the one you asked in the first paragraph of your post on this thread on january 31, 2008 at 2:22 pm..........
"I often wonder how VPW would answer all these accusations that are brought against him if he were still alive today. Could he follow suit with the likes of the apostle Paul as recorded there in Acts 24? Acts 24 tells us how Tertullus had accused Paul before the governor, accussed him of profaning the temple and being a mover of sediton among the Jews. The apostle Paul was accused of many things which the Jews assented saying those things he were accused of were true. Of course, the apostle Paul had the chance in that record to answer for himself to the accusations that were brought against him, but VPW can not do that as VPW is dead."

now, if i may repeat:

"the basic premise of wth's question presumes that there is a valid comparison to be made between the ministry of the apostle paul and that of vic wierwille, founder of twi.............my question regarding this massive presumption is.............do you, wth, truly give equal weight "before god" to the ministry of the apostle paul and the "ministry" of vic wierwille??..........are you presuming that paul the apostle and vic were called by the same god for the same reasons??............are you presuming both paul the apostle and vic received revelation from the same god concerning the bible??.............do you believe paul the apostle and vic were both carrying on "their ministry" with genuine authority and direction from god and his son, jesus christ?............your answers to these questions will determine whether any valid comparison between the apostle paul and vic wierwille can actually be made.................thanks for your reply......................peace."

perhaps you have not seen this clarification i posted concerning the questions i asked What The Hey.........i have re-posted this in the hope that you might answer them within the context they were asked.........thank you...........peace.

February 7, 2008

happy birthday seth!.............hope you enjoy many more in good health and peace!

February 7, 2008

hiya shell!.........HAPPY BIRTHDAY!...........wishing you another great year of love, health and peace!.......all the best life has to offer!..........you deserve it!

February 5, 2008

i was born and raised in nyc and have been a ny giants fan since the days of charlie connerly, sam huff, rosey grier, frank gifford, y. a. tittle, etc.......however, having lived in massachusetts for 20 years, i have become a loyal patriots fan as well.............i am sad that their perfect season is over..;.......imperfectly..........but, at least it was the G-MEN who were the ones who ended the dream!......that makes it bearable...............the giants defense beat the crap out of the pats offense.......they knocked brady off his feet 18 times!........almost half of all his dropbacks!..........it was ole time giants smashmouth football!.....and, i'm happy for eli!......i said from day one he'd be the giants' franchise qb sooner or later........guess it's sooner!.........with my 2 favorite teams in it, it was a great super bowl!..........most watched super bowl ever!!!.......but, the outcome has got to be a huge disappointment for the franchise!............it'll be interesting to see what happens next season!......i say the pats will win the superbowl next year, without going undefeated.........but, until then it'll be, GO CELTICS!!!

regarding the 12 men on-the-field review............that is a procedural penalty, like a false start or offsides, or delay-of-game.......not a play foul or personal foul.......a procedural penalty is automatic, in that it must be called and charged...........it automatically negates any play following the infraction without loss of down.......the reason belichek was allowed the review is that the review established indeed, that the giants 12th player did not make it off the field of play before the snap, thus causing the procedural penalty which was overlooked by the officials.........it's automatic and negated the preceding play without loss of down, and once determined, it had to be called.............that's my story and i'm stickin' to it!

February 4, 2008

hi wth!.........the question to which i am referring is the one you asked in the first paragraph of your post on this thread on january 31, 2008 at 2:22 pm..........

"I often wonder how VPW would answer all these accusations that are brought against him if he were still alive today. Could he follow suit with the likes of the apostle Paul as recorded there in Acts 24? Acts 24 tells us how Tertullus had accused Paul before the governor, accussed him of profaning the temple and being a mover of sediton among the Jews. The apostle Paul was accused of many things which the Jews assented saying those things he were accused of were true. Of course, the apostle Paul had the chance in that record to answer for himself to the accusations that were brought against him, but VPW can not do that as VPW is dead."

now, if i may repeat:

"the basic premise of wth's question presumes that there is a valid comparison to be made between the ministry of the apostle paul and that of vic wierwille, founder of twi.............my question regarding this massive presumption is.............do you, wth, truly give equal weight "before god" to the ministry of the apostle paul and the "ministry" of vic wierwille??..........are you presuming that paul the apostle and vic were called by the same god for the same reasons??............are you presuming both paul the apostle and vic received revelation from the same god concerning the bible??.............do you believe paul the apostle and vic were both carrying on "their ministry" with genuine authority and direction from god and his son, jesus christ?............your answers to these questions will determine whether any valid comparison between the apostle paul and vic wierwille can actually be made.................thanks for your reply......................peace."

February 3, 2008

dear rev. dr. bone.............i found your overly documented , yet brief article on acts19:23-28 to be the most incisive comparison of the ministries of paul the apostle and victor paul the scheister that i have ever seen posted here in the academic research section of the greasespot cafe!...........thank you for your insightful post!.......do you have any insight as to the proper use of the revelation manifestations by the 2oth century followers of victorus of zion?......is it true that doofus of okie was the most faithful follower of victorus? is that why he was able to lead the followers of victorus to their homeland of believing victory behind the walls of zion?........is that why doofus of okie was the greatest operator of discerning of spurts in this our day and time and hour???............it is obvious from your writings that you are THE bone we seek to answer these questions so dynamically important to the history of the universe!.............thank you for all you do for us, doctor!

February 2, 2008

A LA!!!!................all i can say is WOW!!!...............her scat brought a huge smile to my face for the duration!......but, alas, no parlez vous francais!!!.........thanks!

February 2, 2008

yo!......son of the master!.........happy double nickle dude!!!......................peace.

February 2, 2008

okay..........so that's it? there is "no link" between twi and cff according to nathan friedly?..........i knew both john shroyer and wayne clapp during my time in twi.........i was their "boss" in twi's leadership structure for several years........during my years in twi, i never knew of anything willfully wrong or immoral perpetrated against any "believers" by either of these men........my personal interactions with both john and wayne were positive and amicable to the best of my recollection...........but, to say there is "no link" between cff and twi is grossly inaccurate, and at best misleading..........at worst..........a blatant lie!

why do these people "deserve" a "free pass" from their personal history of a "sold-out committment" to vic and the dancing prez and twi??..........because they were relatively "nice guys" during twi's reign of terror from 1989 to 1998?.........both knew enough of vic's "extra-curricular" activities back in the late 80's...........still they stubbornly clung to twi despite the debacle of pop and it's vicious aftermath..........they knew about the lies, the sexual and financial misconduct, the defamation of those who were speaking out about what really went on "behind the scenes" at hq and around the world..........yet, they chose to stick with the liars and the thieves!..........why??

when king okie's loyalty letter went out in march of 1989, both shroyer and clapp willfully chose to "stand" with martindale against geer, and all the rest of the "cop-outs"..........they rose to positions of leadership prominience in the early and mid-1990's.........during a time when king okie pushed twi into the horrors of the "prevailing word in the promised land of the present truth".........which included the infamous "homo purge", absolutely no debt, and the glorious practice of marking and avoiding hapless believers while the dancing prez and his boyz were sexin' it up with any women in the kingdom they desired and badmouthing the rest of the world!.........wayne clapp was running the family corps at rome city for several of those years!.......he was one of martindale's staunchest supporters!........how many humans did he and fern "help" at the behest of martindale? or moynihan?...........how many orders did wayne faithfully carry out which inflicted serious spiritual and psychoemotional harm upon human beings??..........how many lies about former leaders in twi did the clapps joyully pass along to twi followers?.........how many people have they sought out to apologize to for their shameful actions??

cff is as much wierwille's "fruit" as twi is!......they are, perhaps, more "loyal" to the doctrines and beliefs of vic than any other splinter group around with the exception of the geer cult!........the validity of the "spiritual credentials" of the leaders of cff is totally dependent upon acceptance of vic's teachings and almost all of twi's doctrine.........their structure is simply a "lite" version of the way tree..............we live in the united states of america, and cff has every right to exist, and teach whatever it wants.........but, it is also the right of those of us americans who choose not to accept cff's beliefs, to expect that cff speak the truth when it comes to their origins in twi, and their personal adherence to the theology of vic, and their version of vic's way ministry!.........imho, cff and vic are haplessly and hopelessly intertwined, and, in the long run, their spritual DNA will bear it's identifying fruit!............another one will bite the dust!..........why do the offshoots all expend so much effort in avoiding their deep entanglement in the life and teachings of vic and twi? what is it they are trying to hide?..........what connections are they trying to downplay?.......and, is lying the proper christian response to honest questions such as these?

albert einstein said, "we can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."..........all the offshoots of twi,.... ALL OF THEM!..........presuppose that the basic thelogy of vic's pfal series, is, or contains, or promotes, or delivers, or teaches the rightly divided word of god...........ALL OF THEM get their basic beliefs and doctrines from vic and his same "sources".........bg leonard, je stiles, ew bullinger, ew kenyon, rufus mosely, glenn clark, albert cliffe, rosalind rinker, e. stanley jones, and various other ministries they've hooked themselves up with through the last 20 years..........NONE OF THEM have taken the time to fully, exhaustively and objectively review the thinking which led these men to build and push their "ministries" to the world!.........they have simply adopted their own version or forms of vic's "original" thinking about god and the bible, and, either have gone on to evolve their own doctrines and classes and churches and fellowships, and whatever!, or, they have "ministries" which seek to "carry on" in the footsteps of the mogfot without "the legalism", or without "hurting people"!...................unless there is a a "new kind of thinking" about god and the bible, an entirely new consciousness of god in the hearts and minds of these "leaders", their "ministries" are doomed to produce the same fruit and accomplish the same end as vic's!................another einstein quote fits here nicely..........."learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. the important thing is not to stop questioning!"..........

one more thing.............it is still my opinion, as it was in my first post here at the greasespot in september of 2007, that all the leaders of all the twi offshoots everywhere here in the USA, are as guilty as twi regarding their whitewashing of the life and "ministry" of victor paul wierwille and his way ministry!..........as long as they persist in carrying on in his teachings, doctrines and mannerisms, they are guilty of supporting and promoting the teachings and lifestyle of a narcissistic, sociopathic, alcoholic, serial sexual predator, who plundered his way through his little corner of god's people in the name of the accuracy and integrity of god's word!........that's my opinion, for what it's worth!...............guess who.........."in matters of truth and justice, there is no difference between large and small problems, for issues concerning the treatment of people are all the same.".............................peace.

February 2, 2008

the basic premise of wth's question presumes that there is a valid comparison to be made between the ministry of the apostle paul and that of vic wierwille, founder of twi.............my question regarding this massive presumption is.............do you, wth, truly give equal weight "before god" to the ministry of the apostle paul and the "ministry" of vic wierwille??..........are you presuming that paul the apostle and vic were called by the same god for the same reasons??............are you presuming both paul the apostle and vic received revelation from the same god concerning the bible??.............do you believe paul the apostle and vic were both carrying on "their ministry" with genuine authority and direction from god and his son, jesus christ?............your answers to these questions will determine whether any valid comparison between the apostle paul and vic wierwille can actually be made.................thanks for your reply......................peace.

January 26, 2008

hiya roy!...........so,.......has "dr. dale", as his website tells us he is lovingly referred to, (sound familiar?), ever responded to your letter?.........despite his hyperbolized "spiritual" rhetoric to the contrary, sides has very eerily reproduced vic yet once again!......while in wyoming, sides and sann and others flocked to b.g. leonard's ministry, took his class, got in serious "trouble" with twi for instigating a b.g. "revival" during the anniversary year corps week and roa, ran off to start his own ministry, which carries on the vp tradition of plagiarizing leonard and others, as well as "reproducing" vic's india trip, healings, and all!.......sides gets plenty of "revelation" from the same god vic got his from.........the "original" stuff dr. dale has manufactured is as bereft of legitimate scriptural support as vic's and bg's "original" stuff was/is!.........and, it's all just as "biblically accurate"!..........anoither legend in his own mind!!..............another twi offshoot, which, in the long run, will prove to be absolutely "true to its roots" in twi and b.g. leonard..........the fruit will eventually match......just like cff, ces/stf, finnegan, geer, seed, and straight on down the long list of vic's progeny..............

just wondering if you ever heard back from him roy!.........thanks for the thread................with a holy peace sign flashing your way!

January 5, 2008

thanks for all the great music youse guys and gals!............in keeping with song of the moment.....and great music..........how about a little jimi?...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aUDVpHxw9c#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT86jjGz60k...eature=related#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VblDwX67dS8#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJmPtneBibU#

and to show how "old" this music is,.......here's 38 years ago this week........LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV74PsUo1dc...eature=related#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0II27jGrRm8...eature=related#

January 3, 2008

happy birthday wrdsandwrks!.............best wishes for many more birthdays to celebrate your health, happiness, and personal successes!.....................peace.