DontWorryBeHappy

HEY THERE, JEFF BLACKBURN AND JOHN LYNN!!..........HOW ARE YOU GUYS TONIGHT??................ANY IDEA WHEN YOU MIGHT DROP ME A NOTE HERE???

STILL WONDERING!!!!......................HOPING TO SEE A POST FROM EITHER OF YOU SOMETIME!........................................PEACE.

HI THERE ONCE AGAIN, JEFF AND JOHN!!!...............SURE WAS A NICE SPORTS SUNDAY TODAY, WAS'NT IT??...............JUST CHECKING IN TO SEE IF EITHER OF YOU HAS CHOSEN TO REPLY..............I GUESS NOT TODAY................OK...........I'M STILL HERE WAITING.................................PEACE.

Hi Oakspeare!.......and hi to all who have posted on this thread.................

i copied the above post from another thread to save some time.........the "revelation" of the way tree was given to vic, according to him,.......in order to establish the administrative structure of twi...............as i stated above......no one in the "early" daze of the way east.....where i got "involved" with twi in late 1970.......really ever heard much about it..........steve and sandi heefner were our "leaders"......he was the only "ordained" clergyman in the way east when he came to us.......ordained in november, 1970 if i remember correctly.....along with john lynn and boob moyihan by vic at new knoxville at a special sns.........btw, steve was ....imo.....a really great guy!.......to this day i regret not being able to offer more tangible support to him and sandi when they were fired by vic during the ac in rye, ny in april of 1972..............this was not too long after jim and judy doop were fired publicly from the way west during "the way presents" fiasco in ca...........steve was a genuine minister and friend....and he was NOT wrong!........as another interesting side note, it was chris geer who provided the "inside" covert support for vic in all the shenanigans they pulled to fire steve during that ac........his reward was to be made the lc in massachusetts in june of '72!!.....

as i stated in the previous post, it was john townsend who was "pranced out" to teach the way tree seminar on video, not fugit......fugit was the "evangelist" who taught the first video seminar on witnessing and undershepherding, which was later replaced by a seminar of the same name, filmed during "living victoriously" in june, 1982 including vince finnegan and ralph dubofsky as the teachers........the real push for formalizing and establishing the way tree structure in twi began in the spring of 1972.....as i stated above, in order to "lock in" vic's absolute control over the leadership and money............especially the money.............prior to the spring of '72......all the 'limbs"......i.e. the way west, the way east, etc.,............were independent "corporations"..........each "limb" decided on its own how much money wouyld be "abundantly shared" with "the farm" in nk........as did each area or branch decide how much it would send to the limb.........all expenses (like rent, salaries, cars, gas, "petty cash", refreshments for meetings, etc., etc.,).......were handled by and at the local level by the local leaders........all decisions regarding allocation of the money were made at the local levels......until......the ominous spring of '72................this was when hq in nk became the vatican of twi......the only rule for faith and practice......no more questions!!!!.......

the info provided by johnj in his post on this thread augments the facts surrounding the "circling of the wagons" by vic and da boyz in '72......btw.....the "original" bot was established in 1957, when vic and harry incorporated the way after getting the ancestral family farm to be "the ministry's" after vic "left" the church in van wert................the board of directors never really wielded much real power over the corporation other than "nominally".........from '57-69........basically "rubber stamping" what vic, harry and ermal decided with occasional disputes over money..............but the bylaws of the corporation from 1957 clearly gave final say to the original 3 bot members...............this was totally "etched in stone" by early '71 if not earlier.............

so, when the money became "serious" by 1972,.....vic made sure he and harry were totally in control of ALL OF IT!..........hence the teaching and institutionalization of the way tree provided them the exclusive authority to control doctrine, practice and (most importantly) ALL THE MONEY that twi had..............

I think wordwolf and belle have hit on the 2 major "ideological" tipping points regarding why vic really pushed the consolidation and eventual "denominationalization" of twi doctrines.........from a chronological perspective, i think the tipping point came in the spring of 1972, when vic pranced out john townsend as the "frontman" for the teaching and establishment , the "formalization" of the way tree.........prior to that time, there were only "fellowships", not twigs........we were'nt "joining twi".......there was no twi,.....it was "the way, inc."....back then........."the way ministry"........the brc had the word "ecumenical" stamped on its dedicatory placque, hung at the main entrance.........we were "getting into the word",........becoming "born-again christians"............."getting into the ministry".........which back in 1970......(when i "got in")......consisted of, "headquarters", in new knoxville ("the farm").....the way west, the way east, the way of north carolina (the ecu crowd, et al), the way of kansas (primarily fugit in wichita, followed shortly by townsend),...the way of indiana, the way of ohio, and the way of australia............after the "summer school"....sessions of 1969 and 1970, at hq........things really began mushrooming all over the states..........in the way east, we went from nothing in early 1970 to thousands of "grads" all over the northeast........hundreds of classes, hundreds of thousands of dollars in "tithes and offerings, bookstore sales, class registration "donations"....etc., etc.,.....

the only "formal doctrines" were the foundational, intermediate and advanced classes (with accompanying syllabi), "the collaterals" (a collection of about 62 pamphlets, including "pamphlet" versions of christians should be prosperous and adan) and whatever notes people took at summer school and/or family camps!!!........the structure was incredibly "loose" compared to what many came to know in the years following the spring of '72!!!............thousands of details are flying through my mind right now.......but, suffice it to say.......the incredible increase in cashflow and "membership" provided a major windfall for vic and the boys in nk!!!..........in 1972, vic "brought it all home" to the farm.......way east and way west leaders were axed with the various "rumors" of misuse of the money, "ego problems" and not "listeneing to the man of god" at headquarters.............almost over night, "blue forms" appeared, all money was deposited directly into newly established "limb" bank accounts.....fellowships became twigs, branches, areas and limbs with "leadership" ordained and appointed by headquarters and then "down the tree"........going wow and corps was now the only "right" way of moving the word and growing "spiritually"........vic consolidated financial and doctrinal control over "his ministry" centralizing and dictating all in and from new knoxville!!!......he was our "father in the word" now.....not merely "the teacher" any more........suddenly there were new seminars, jcing became the "big deal" in 1973........and the money just kept pouring in!!.......if you did'nt line up with hq, you were "out of fellowship".......usually "possessed",....."tripped out"......the pfal series was dogmatized, the way tree institutionalized and the "way ministry" was denominationalized into "the way international"!!!

so, to gain and maintain control over the leadership and the money,......vic went about full force giving twi it's unique identity, tatooing his way over "the way", his teachings over "the word" and his lifestyle upon the "followers of the way".........the doctrine became "written in stone" and its purest form was available only from "the farm",through "the teacher", our newly crowned "father in the word"....bringing new light to our generation by formalizing all the stuff he plagerized, stole and "received from god" into HIS ministry.......and personal "cash cow"!!!.............hence "the scarcity" of the "rightly-divided word, as it has'nt been taught since the first century".....became an ever more necessary "club" in the hands of the apostle vic used to bludgeon the identity of his ministry into the hungry minds of his faithful "grads".......the spurious doctrines hinted at in the pfal series now became books, seminars, research projects, films, public ex's, rock of ages, etc., etc.,....ad infinitum!.................so....the "WHEN"......as far as "putting some teeth into the ministry".......imo........truly was in the spring of 1972 with the imposition of the way tree structure upon those who were formerly simply "followers of the way".............what a toxic spring that turned out to be!!!!..........................peace.

Hi Bliss!..............thanks for another enlightening post!............

I am grateful to you for giving us a little more context regarding your current relationship with boob and doody..........i apologize if any of my indignation toward them "spilled over" in your direction.............please know that you most certainly were not the "object" of my opinions of them.....sorry if i came across that way..........i was not aware of your family situation requiring you to maintain a "restrained" communication with the moynihan's.......i fully understand why you choose to interact with them in the manner you do...........hopefully, one day,....your family will be able to extricate themselves from twi's undo influence upon them.........unfortunately, i am aware of so much crap the moynihan's have pulled in their long and sorry history with twi, that when i'm reminded of them i still get pi$$ed off...........they have been willfully complicit with vic and the dancing prez in the cruel abuse of HUNDREDS of innocent christians, leading to the sad destruction of far too many lives and marriages!!..........and, yes......god is their judge......but justice demands they are continually confronted NOW as long as there are any of us in the position to do so...............i am in a position to do so........you are not..............thanks for your patience with me............and for your love and patience for your family...........nothing is worth any separation from your family in this life........i will pray for your family........i commend you for your wisdom and strength to keep your family "together" despite the claws of twi!..........................................peace.

LOL!!..............Bolshevik...............sounds like a plan, dude!!!...............another great sports sunday not wasted at the way!!!.............................peace.

HEY THERE ROSALIE!!!

Well......................tomorrow's the big day!!..............sorry you did'nt like any of the many good suggestions posted on this thread for you!!..........apparently, you decided not to accept any of our ideas, from what i can tell from your website(s)...........i'm including that new one that our fellow poster oakspeare showed us........

sorry.........but from what i can see from your sites.....you so need our help!!!.........whatever "minds" are left out there behind your sugarwalls of zion are in dire need of help!!........you have no sense of shame or self-respect left..........understandably.....lying so loudly for so long must take its toll..............but really............come on!!!!..............please.....for the sake of anything...turn on your tv, radio, cellphone or computer!!...........please!!!!

We greasespotters sure tried............................your loss!!................oh well,............happy 65th anyway!!

oopps....................wrong thread...............sowwy!

Hi Everybody!!!...................i just watched marion jones.....olympic athlete extraordinaire from the 2000 summer games........apologize to ALL of US who rooted for her...... because she used performance enhancing steroids during and prior to her medal winning performances in those games...............gutwrenching to say the least!!!!.......but, you know what??...............i forgave her immediately because her "confession" was truly and honestly heartfelt, for all to see....... and it motivated me to grant her request for forgiveness "on the spot".............even though i did'nt feel she hurt me personally!........i forgave her!!.............and, not only that........i am again "rooting" for her as she now faces the legal and personal consequences of her "sins"................truly a courageous woman!!..........more than can be said for the sorry list of "christian leaders" i have listed previously on this thread!!!...............YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!!.................and,.... YOU ALL STILL OWE US AN APOLOGY!!!!!..........................................................PEACE!

very eerie indeed!!!...........i did not know either that these "practices" are ongoing............how 'bout more info from those "in the know '...........how 'bout any info at all???????............thanks for the post, butnowisee!.............................peace.

thanks cindy!......enjoyed the clip.........never saw this guy before......will be looking for him on comedy central....................................peace.

still laughing!!.........ok.......ham.........................

ROTFLMAO!!!!............Mr.Hammeroni!.............you just cracked me up!!!!......too funny!.............thanks!...............................peace.

HELLO AGAIN JEFF AND JOHN!!.......HAVING A GOOD WEEKEND SO FAR???.....HOW'S ABOUT A POST TODAY???.........ANY ANSWERS????...............STILL WAITING........................HOPING TO HEAR FROM YOU SOMETIME..............................PEACE.

Hi Bliss!..........thanks for your posts!..........

As a long ago "former friend" of boob and doody, it is interesting to note that they, even after more than 20 YEARS of "acknowledging that they have done wrong" still have NOT STOPPED "DOING WRONG"!!..........funny, ....i was a "peer" of their's, of the same age, and, heck, i reproved them too.........IN 1986!.........they never "humbly apologized" to me!!.....how come???

"they have sold out to the 'message' of the bible the ministry teaches. they really don't think there is anywhere else to go."..............sorry, bliss......but....what a crock of ages!!..what biblical message is there in twi that ces, or geer, or cff can't provide for our forlorn moynihan's??........guess they just would'nt offer them a position nearly as prominent in their oufits as twi can!!...............certainly, doody's daddy left enough for her from the furniture business in nc to provide for any of the physical comforts the've grown accustomed to.....not to mention whatever real estate and financial investments he also may have left for them.......what they've "sold out" to is their upholding of the phoney myths and legends of twi that they are the guardians of for their own selfish and perverse reasons.........they've been "in" since 1969!........that's a badge of honor for them in twi..........they protect twi's "holy grail" at the cost of having their consciences "seared with a hot iron"!!..........makes them seem like some kind of heroes,..."knights templar".........what a mighty stand they've taken!!.....yeah.....what a crock!!...............the list of "friends" they've dumped, lied about and "M&A'd" just keeps on growing...they're like the energizer bunnies of lying and mistreating "friends".........nice little "niche" they've carved out for themselves within the walls of zion.....the halls of human carnage of twi!!............if you ever really get honest with them , bliss, your name will be added to that list!.....

But, no matter, twi "is just the vehicle they use to talk and teach about god"!...........more like the vehicle they use to continue to run down all who oppose them or "reprove" them..........vehicular homicide is a crime, bliss!........

"what am i supposed to do? dump them? sorry, my beliefs in jesus to love them where they are at, tell me otherwise."...........who you choose as your friends is totally up to you, bliss.......nobody else's business............but do your beliefs in jesus include not "casting your pearls before swine"??.......boob and doody, whited sepulchres that they are, certainly fit the category of swine..........just my opinion though..............just try asking them what they've known about vic and the dancing prez since 1986!......how many willful lies and cover-ups have they carried out since then???...........see how much they'll "acknowledge" before you too are dumped onto the garbage pile of their long list of "friends"!...........

Bliss.......you sound like a nice person...........i bet you are.............and i certainly would never presume to interfere with your choice of friends..........absolutely none of my business..........it just seems to me that there are a lot more people on this planet more worthy of your friendship than those 2 lying losers behind the walls of zion......i just pray you see it before it happens!............................................peace.

wow you guys!!..............i heard about the "white glove" dust inspections of window and door sills.....even the fridge top inspections......but i never knew about the dust to crotch connection!!!!........does'nt surprise me that there was one.....just never knew about it.............but, it figures that if every woman in the kingdom belonged to the king.......the old king pervert himself would wanna make sure the crotches of all his "properties" were "up to snuff".......

dot.....you raise a very interesting question.........i remember talking with cora mae peters once, a long time ago......she mentioned something about vic having been "fondled" by his mother when he was real young........vic used to tell us that in his "humble" childhood he slept in the same bed with his folks for several years........apparently, no other bed was readily available and he said this was fairly customary among the families in his predominantly german, farming family community of new knoxville as well as the surrounding communities of similar ethnic and socioeconomic heritage............for the youngest child to bed down with mama and papa for the first few years of their life.............who knows what may have transpired???............interesting question..........................remember too, that dotsie was raised in the same community and came from the same background that vic did........who knows what happened during the cold winter nights of dotsie's earliest years at the kipp farm???.........she was a classic enabler, and as far as i know, she never confronted her husband about any of his hundreds of "ministering sessions" with her sisters in christ!!!.........maybe incest was not a foreign concept to either one of them?......it surely was'nt for vic, was it???

that's my view of his serial sexual predation......incest in it's most vile form......for we must never forget that every wow, corps and any other "believer" woman was vic's sister in christ......or as he like to call 'em........one of his "kids"........before she became his victim.........appears he took incest to new, dizzying heights!!!..................how grossly perverse and evil!....................................................peace.

post deleted to avoid double posting.......sowwy!

hey coolchef!......thanks for the note................let me just say, regarding "too inistent"................you ain't seen nothin' yet............hehehe..................peace.

HI AGAIN, JEFF!.....HI AGAIN JOHN!

I'M STILL ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS.........STILL EAGERLY AWAITING SOME KIND OF REPLY FROM EITHER OF YOU........OR BOTH OF YOU.........

WHAT'S UP GUYS??..........WON'T YOU PLEASE SAY SOMETHING??...............THANKS!.........................PEACE!

Hello there, shortfuse!!.........thought provoking post........thanks!

I think wordwolf and belle have hit on the 2 major "ideological" tipping points regarding why vic really pushed the consolidation and eventual "denominationalization" of twi doctrines.........from a chronological perspective, i think the tipping point came in the spring of 1972, when vic pranced out john townsend as the "frontman" for the teaching and establishment , the "formalization" of the way tree.........prior to that time, there were only "fellowships", not twigs........we were'nt "joining twi".......there was no twi,.....it was "the way, inc."....back then........."the way ministry"........the brc had the word "ecumenical" stamped on its dedicatory placque, hung at the main entrance.........we were "getting into the word",........becoming "born-again christians"............."getting into the ministry".........which back in 1970......(when i "got in")......consisted of, "headquarters", in new knoxville ("the farm").....the way west, the way east, the way of north carolina (the ecu crowd, et al), the way of kansas (primarily fugit in wichita, followed shortly by townsend),...the way of indiana, the way of ohio, and the way of australia............after the "summer school"....sessions of 1969 and 1970, at hq........things really began mushrooming all over the states..........in the way east, we went from nothing in early 1970 to thousands of "grads" all over the northeast........hundreds of classes, hundreds of thousands of dollars in "tithes and offerings, bookstore sales, class registration "donations"....etc., etc.,.....

the only "formal doctrines" were the foundational, intermediate and advanced classes (with accompanying syllabi), "the collaterals" (a collection of about 62 pamphlets, including "pamphlet" versions of christians should be prosperous and adan) and whatever notes people took at summer school and/or family camps!!!........the structure was incredibly "loose" compared to what many came to know in the years following the spring of '72!!!............thousands of details are flying through my mind right now.......but, suffice it to say.......the incredible increase in cashflow and "membership" provided a major windfall for vic and the boys in nk!!!..........in 1972, vic "brought it all home" to the farm.......way east and way west leaders were axed with the various "rumors" of misuse of the money, "ego problems" and not "listeneing to the man of god" at headquarters.............almost over night, "blue forms" appeared, all money was deposited directly into newly established "limb" bank accounts.....fellowships became twigs, branches, areas and limbs with "leadership" ordained and appointed by headquarters and then "down the tree"........going wow and corps was now the only "right" way of moving the word and growing "spiritually"........vic consolidated financial and doctrinal control over "his ministry" centralizing and dictating all in and from new knoxville!!!......he was our "father in the word" now.....not merely "the teacher" any more........suddenly there were new seminars, jcing became the "big deal" in 1973........and the money just kept pouring in!!.......if you did'nt line up with hq, you were "out of fellowship".......usually "possessed",....."tripped out"......the pfal series was dogmatized, the way tree institutionalized and the "way ministry" was denominationalized into "the way international"!!!

so, to gain and maintain control over the leadership and the money,......vic went about full force giving twi it's unique identity, tatooing his way over "the way", his teachings over "the word" and his lifestyle upon the "followers of the way".........the doctrine became "written in stone" and its purest form was available only from "the farm",through "the teacher", our newly crowned "father in the word"....bringing new light to our generation by formalizing all the stuff he plagerized, stole and "received from god" into HIS ministry.......and personal "cash cow"!!!.............hence "the scarcity" of the "rightly-divided word, as it has'nt been taught since the first century".....became an ever more necessary "club" in the hands of the apostle vic used to bludgeon the identity of his ministry into the hungry minds of his faithful "grads".......the spurious doctrines hinted at in the pfal series now became books, seminars, research projects, films, public ex's, rock of ages, etc., etc.,....ad infinitum!.................so....the "WHEN"......as far as "putting some teeth into the ministry".......imo........truly was in the spring of 1972 with the imposition of the way tree structure upon those who were formerly simply "followers of the way".............what a toxic spring that turned out to be!!!!..........................peace.

HEY THERE TONTO!!!.............HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!....................MAY MANY MORE KEEP ROLLING YOUR WAY!!!

HELLO AGAIN, JEFF AND JOHN!!.........HOW ARE YOU GUYS TODAY??..................HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THIS THREAD, YET???........BY ANY CHANCE, HAVE YOU SEEN IT????........ANY ANSWERS FOR US???.................STILL WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU GUYS!!!....................PEACE!

HEY JEFF????............HEY JOHN????..................IT'S BEEN MORE THAN TWO DAYS SINCE I STARTED THIS THREAD........ARE YOU OUT THERE??

STILL WAITNG FOR SOME KINDA REPLY??.................CAN YOU HELP??

Kevlar........as dmiller said.......good point...............surely JOHN OR JEFF.........know the status of any legal proceedings which might prevent them from answering my questions??......there are no proceedings that i'm aware of that would prevent them from telling us they are legally bound to not say anything about the questions i asked.......they are most certainly free to state at least that much!!!!..........i recently heard that the "lawsuit" has no legal merits, and that it has been "dropped"......................SO, WHAT'S UP WITH THAT JEFF OR JOHN?????

Hi Penguin!................interesting topic!.............thanks..........

i can think of several words used in the bible that twi changed the meaning of from english to "wayspeak"...........adultery......fornication..........lying..........idolatry......

............come to mind quickly!

JEFF AND JOHN..............HI AGAIN!

Please be assured that this thread is not meant by me to be sarcastic, or "baiting" in any way..........my questions to you guys are honest and serious..........i'm hoping that this thread will afford you the opportunity to forthrightly and joyfully reply to the questions asked.........by no means do i consider myself to be speaking on anyone else's behalf, but, i do believe that there are many here at the greasespot as well as many among your followers who have similar, if not the same questions............i sincerely hope you will post your answers here........

i remain.............eager to hear your replies!.....................peace!