TRIUNE_GOD

Wow I an so glad you see he "adds.admit, omits" and yes I see a lot of what you are saying. I see he really messed up on almost everything he preached "everything", I can not find anything he taught was on the mark (just my opinion and others as well). I really think you are right in that "we will be like him" I was accused when I researched out "the son of God" of saying if I thought that this proved Christs deity, than it would make us Christ or God. One verse they "tried to use" to prove this was "...to be conformed unto the image of his son" Rom. 8:29 I do admit when I was confronted with this verse, i was locked up at first. I went into the Greek I found that it does not say what they tried to get it to say at all. Col. 1:15 "who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" The word translated "invisible" is "eikon" Now it has been my understanding that a 'eikon" always assumes a photo type (the orig. from which it is drawn from) In this verse it is clear in the text Christ is "eikon of theou" a "identical image" 2 Cor. 4:4 " ...who is the image [eikon] of God." Now look how "accurate the word is here about us and the "eikon", and how we will not be a god, eikon of God, or GOD, though the word is clear that Christ is "eikon tou theou". Rom. 8:29 "for whom he did foreknow he did predestinate to be conformed unto the image [eikon] of his Son. Notice the word states "to be conformed to the eikon." not be the eikon like Christ is, but "conformed to it" the Greek word translated conformed here is "summorphos". What I have gleamed from it is "together with, along side the Form of eikon. In PHIL. 3:21 it speaks of a physical conforming to his glorious body. "Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like [summorphos] his glorious body ..." Here i see that we will again we will be made "LIKE unto his glorious body" the word "fashioned" here to me shows a 'internal change' as the word "change" shows a external one (from what I have learned).

DR Wierwille forgot something in Philip.Ch.2 Philip. 2:6 Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be "isos" with God." Is the word " isos" or "isosceles" ? Dr. Wierwille points out the Greek word "isos" and gives a English Driv."isosceles" and " IT'S " definition does he even try to divide "isos" at all ? If he did as "he taught" he would need to "RIGHTLY DIVIDE" "isosceles" is not the "God-Breathed Word" here "isos" is. some Ex-Wayers Teach "isosceles" is, because Wierwille did in JCNG. What about "isos"? Dr.George M. Lamsa answers this for us in his "superior accuracy" of his knowledge with the "Aramaic Oriental mannerisms" also he points out Dr.Wierwille misused the Aramaic in Philip.2 Dr.George M.Lamsa seen Christ's deity in the "Aramaic Phrases" in this Context, and he did just that, Lamsa "accurately divided the word" here. He seen that Christ is co equal, co eternal to the Father. Dr. Lamsa seen "Christ is YHWH." Notice "Christ is "en morphe theou" look at it in the Greek. Wierwille said to trace the"word" where it is: used before OOO, nnnnnooooo "this is were the rubber meets the road" you do not even need Greek here, you can see this in a Paraphrase. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought moreover to kill him [Jesus], because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said "God was his Father" making himself "isos" with God." Notice: The Jews knew who "Jesus" was clamming to be, by the usage of the word "patros" [Father] OOPS Wierwille forgot to mention this word in his book JCNG ??? this word is used in a different manner than when it is applied to us, as referring to God as our Father. see the immediate context, And remote flow of context. Look at it Translated as "as" we can do this according to Dr.Spiros Zodhiates President of AMG International. in the Complete Word Study Dictionary. p782 Lex# 2470 John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought moreover to kill him [Jesus], because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said God was his Father [patros] making himself "as" God." Philip. 2:6 Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be "as" God. God Bless

LOL LOL I have got a ton of comments from it. lol lol. I think you are Refering to the VPW one ?? he he

Thank you so much rainbow i really needed that. I am really going through some real tuf times now. I am not to proud to admit it. Thanks again for your words of encouragement. PS LOVE YOU TOO :)

Hi everyone just got here a few days ago. Glad to be here and hope to meet some friends. I live around in Dayton Ohio, close to LCM. I come in contact with Christian people as a adult when my grandmother passed away about 15 years ago. I was at her funeral and a full gospel preacher spoke on the Day of Grad. when we get to meet Christ regardless of how we live, we will meet him to bow before him. I was in a MC club in Drexel Ohio known as 'The Dayton Satan's"(I still love you guys) at that time. In the back of the Funeral home (Martens on Fredrick PK) blown out, on a week end of crank and coke sitting there high "rushing".I listen as "CB Ellis" spoke, the words he spoke hit home, and it never left me to this day. I had went home and the thought was in my mind real strong. It got to a time in the week that Pent. Churches had there Mid. week services, (I recalled as a kid going to one) I thought I would attend. I did, high on Pot and really recovering from the weekend of partying. I recall a 70 YO couple "shouting the house down" It grabbed my ATT. real fast. I said to myself 'there not high on dope, there really having a good time, I wonder if this is God or them selfs?? No one better grab me to take me to the alter or I just might BUST SOMEONE UP". Well no one asked me to pray, or grabbed me to the alter. I had a visit from a Rev James Jon_on (a 70 + YO Man.) he said "hay heard you was at the church and want to ask you if you would come back, I will be preaching this Sun Night" I said "sure". I went and that Sunday night and WOW I was in for a treat. The older couple was "shouting and dancing all over", many that night was having "a hoe down". I said to myself "there not high on anything and look there having fun" Everyone settled down and took there seats. The old Preacher who was bald, had on teeth began to speak and WOW He was a fire ball !! He began to speak in tongues and jump around spitting and really was into it. He looked at me and said "hay you with the curly hair and glasses would you let me pray for you" The very thing i said that I did not want he asked me. I did not feel uncomfortable about it I went up. He and 3 other ministers jump to there feet and met me at the alter. He said "Just lift up your hands" I did he began to speak in tongues and said these words 'IN THE NAME OF CHRIST" and "BANG I HIT THE FLOOR" backwards, almost passed out but aware of what was going on around me. My right hand shoot up and begain to shake. The Ministers was all around my body, and he and them was speaking in tongues and he said again 'IN THE NAME OF CHRIST EVERY THING SATAN HAS PUT IN HERE I COMMAND YOU TO BE GONE ' when this was said I recall my body (lying on the floor) started to sweat out pools of sweat like I never did before. As i came to I tried to get to my feet and could not, two people led me to the nearest pew. I sat there thinking "God is real, this is no faerie tale , this is real. As I got older I speak down about "slaying in the Spirit" but I stuck with this fact, God did use that to get me to wake up out of the hard drugs I was into, and something laid me out!! Years had went by and I was in a Apartment of a woman I was seeing at the Kit. table with the door open. This man was sing hyms in the APT. next door. I begun to talk to him is the up coming weeks . He begun taking about the bible at the Kit. table and he looked at me and said 'you know there was 4 others crucified with Christ" WoW I never herd that before, Neet I thought, I said to my self "tell me more" (ohhh boy o boy) this is how i got introduced to the Way teaching.

Man I really tried to dig around and find a date, and around that 'way back " no luck. But I did look in the Computer I used and found some of them in a note pad. Here is some of them, Please remember this was a year ago and I have learned a lot lol lol. At that time we were upset, mad that we were lied to about almost everything. Some of you will might get upset as did many. I deleted a lot of the names by adding a "_" in it. They will appear scrambled up a bit too. To those who wonder why I am posting these "I was asked to" after I get what I got posted we well close this out. Thanks Guys hope to hear from you all soon. These Posts is not meant as of 10-07 not to degrade no one, put any one down, to give you the idea that anyone has 'FULLY ARRIVED'. The man in this Post I count today as my friend, although he does not speak to me no more He is still my friend. These was posted over a year ago on a well known web site, and was compiled as we sat here and went over what we found out in the last 4 years. There was some interjection by either people that was in contact with these groups, or by the thread. The Ryburn Christian Clarion in Spring 2005 "The beginning" Ryburn Christian Clarion is a ExWay study resource. And it is in every Montgomery County Library, and alot of Supermarkets. It looks good on the surface but in turn it is hiding that it is a Cult spreading the Jesus of the Way The Ryburn Christian Clarion is ran by Editor and Chief Ri_hard l_e He_ter, Head of Research K_ith Ja_ison, And is Copied and,printed by Jo_n Go_dwin. RCC do not believe in Christ's deity at all., nor do they believe in THEE HOLY SPIRIT, no Heaven now. and a no Hell ever. They uphold the Way's jesus. Ryburn Christian Clarion in Fall of 2004 Ke_th Jam_son writes"HEL' and the Bible", and goes on about "Hell" and tries to explain away in Secular writings that "Hell" is not a place of torment. And after almost a whole page he finally gives some Verses he never looks at how the Word of God defines "Hell". He plays on the Eng. word "Hell" and gives 2 Greek words "Gehenna", "hades" and in short says they just mean the "Grave", This is the mark of a true "amituar" Orthadox Christian Faith is way more studied than this. The only ones who are this careless with the accuracy of "Hades" is the Watchtower (Rutherford) and the Way (wier-wacko) World wide Church of God (Arm-strongs peww), and all who fall in the ditch with them. K_ith is said to be "avidley" studing Gods word for 13 Years. lol ...lol... What has he been doing for 13 years studying Greek Mythlogy, after reading this article it appears so. see 2 TM 3:16 K_ith Ja_ison (led by Ri_k) "Adds" to the word and wrongly divides badly. They try to prove that the accuracy of the text is just a religous teaching, This was done by wier-wacko, and this is where this false teaching comes from. The reason they bring it up is because Ch_plain Jr. C_llins challanged R_ck He_ter to this False teaching. Jr. points out that Gen. 2:7 does not contain "assah" and Werwill butcherd the word, and this is private Interp. R_ck says to Jr but it is a Deriv. Jr. said well show me in a Hebrew Dict. R_ck froze up. Jr. said you do not own one do you ? R_ck replied "no" You do not have a Greek one either do you " NO" then you are taking a mans word over the Word of God ! If you have a Hebrew Dict. lookup Gen 2:7 and see if you see "assah" or even a Diriv. Maby you accept RCC claims that in Gen. 2:7 contains a Deriv Of "assah" ask your self a question how could you trust some one who did not have even a Greek Concord, Dict, No wonder they never give " there Deriv" in this column. This is funny if you think about it. They claim to uphold "the accuracy of the God-Breathed Word" they should say "UPHOLDING THE ACCURACY OF THE WAY-BREATHED LIE'S" The true accuracy of God's-Breathed Word teaches "became" comes from the Heb Word "hayah" We have a Hebrew TANAK and this word is not "assah" ps. Ri_k did not know what a TANAK was. So if you still agree with Rcc/Way look at this "assah' Vs "hayah" do they have the same meaning ? They certainly do not look alike now do they. Maybe God made a typo ? Or God meant to put "hayah" but Told us to wait until VPWl shows us what the true meaning is. So if you still accept this you are forced to accept all Deriv. have the same meaning. When we add words to the Bible you will have a promise coming. and that is the accuracy of the Word.

3rd clause in verse 2: "for no one understands him" the word rendered "understand" is "akouei" it means "hear". And the word "for" would be better understood if translated as "in truth, in fact" "in truth, in fact no one understands him" 4th clause in verse 2: "howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries" is "howbeit" a conjunction ?? well the word "de" (1161) is the Greek word used here and it is a "particle" and would be better understood as "indeed" and it goes with the previous "in truth, in fact no one understands him" "indeed he is speaking mysteries in the spirit" The word spirit does not mean "The Holy Spirit" here but the persons spirit who is speaking, this is understood by verse 14: "for if I pray in a unknown tongue my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful" It uses what is called a possessive pronoun "my" (mou) and the Def. Art. "to" (3588) Lit. "the spirit mine" I have seen this by several Greek Scholars / Grammar heads, and I am forced to go with them on this one. The Holy Spirit can not be reached by speaking ecstatic utterances that cannot be understood. The Holy Spirit reveals Gods purpose he never hides it. verse 16: "else when you will bless with the spirit" how does a person bless with the Holy Spirit , if he does not understand you ?? The subject in this verse is, the one who is speaking in a ecstatic utterance that is not understood by the listeners, and he is speaking mysteries to his self brought forth by his own imagination. I see that the "ecstatic utterances" was created by the Corinthians own spirit. Paul says these tongues not a understood human dialect, there not prophesying, there going to God only, there a creation of mans own spirit, and no one understands them I see that Paul counts them as meaningless. Now here is the first two verses in this Chapter, and what "I have seen" by way of other teachers in the holy text, this has soaked deep within my inner most being. Not to argue with anyone here at all !! This is like I said "just another view point". And if we only look at what only one teacher has taught us, we have put ourself in a box. I was a Pentecostal Minister for years and i did not always see tongues this way. Maybe God has shown you more deeper things than what I have shared with you, If he has Godspeed by friends. God bless

Now God does nothing, creates nothing without a reason. He gave us a brain to do what "think". He gives redemption by way of Christ because man kind needs it. Everything he does, he does it for a reason. This applies to the gift of speaking in tongues, whither it comes from our spirit or from God. God speaks to us by way of his word, in a dialect we do understand. So the reason for a dialect is so that it would be understood. Speaking to God, or people in a ecstatic utterance cannot even accomplish this (being understood). Looking into the word "glossolalia" it only appears in Cor. 14 it refers to the Cor. ecstatic utterances in the NT. why ? because the COR was babes in Christ and the least mature. The letter to the Cor. is is a letter of Correction. In the next post I will let you see what I have found out in the 4th clause in this verse, and in the word "pneumati"

Here is only few of my Dogs. This is my family. We literally went to "THE DOGS" lol lol Well i see there not showing up hummmm sorry. We have sold down a lot now we had 27 this spring of 07.

No I have been in the chat room, and looked over what "Word_Wolf" had to say in his Thread for Noobs. He did a nice work there.

Ok I understand that you do not like calling any ONE a "Tryune_God" I chose that name not to say that i am a god or God. It is just a name that was not taken on GSC, (wonder why lol lol) Now I am not trying to change anyone, this is just another view point. And also i stand for trinity, so how i see these verses will not be what you are use to seeing. 1 Cor. 14:1 belongs to Chap 13. "Follow after [diokete] love ..." diokete= pursue,chase,hunt,run after. making love the object to run to. 1Cor. 14:2 For he that speaks in tongue (glossia) speaks not to man but to God: For no man understands him: however in (his) spirit he speaks mysteries." Now I put in (his), it is very important to see (to me) What spirit. And as my stand I clearly see in Cor 14 "The Holy Spirit" is not in this context at all. Some would agree on GSC because, they do not see "The Holy Spirit" but "holy spirit" so we could say that "The 3rd part of the Godhead" is not in this context together. aman. But where we will not come together is the fact i see that "spirit", in Cor 14 is "mans" (that even the child of the Satan has). Lets not spring into a debate here, I just want to share with you what I have learned. Paul is saying here "I do not understand you" "The rest of the people does not either" "well God must" I don't" This language is unknown among men, not human, not understandable, a fabricated language that was prob. not a language at all. Paul shows in this Verse that this practice did exist. And some thought they could commune with God with it. Paul is not approving of it to me. He seems to be saying "look at your selfs, what are you doing ??" Paul does not say "the utterances reach God, or is GOD ordained he says "no one understands this babbling" After all why communicate with God in a language unknown to him or to anyone ? Does God understand all human dialects ? Does it make any logic to try to talk to God with out knowing what you are saying ? Prayer is a expression of our complete dependence !! so if I do not know what I am saying I can not even get this done. Do not reply with the answers to these questions. this is something i ask myself. I have ran out of time for tonight and i will cont. on Verse 1-2. Until next time God Bless

wOw I really was shocked to come to this thread and see the responses, THANK YOU ALL !! This last Day I have been thinking of how I ran into this site, and the wonder full words "rainbow and cman" has shared with me. as well. Now today I have some new people who has extended there arms out to me as well GOD BLESS EVERY ONE OF YOU !! I must say i am crying right now... I really thought there was no one that cared. I should have a pity party now lol lol. sheww now I got the tears out of the way. I have read a lot of your stuff Wordwolf because me and you have a lot in common. "the word" i do go through things, but i have a hunger for Gods Word. but i tried many times just to forget it all. In fact I am trying to forget it now. But yesterday I reread some of them ART. you submitted on the "forbidden Posts" and it really hits home. I want to thank you personally for posting them for others to see. It is just another viewpoint, for someone to think about that is all. Anotherdan: Thank you for sharing with me about the site. Thank you for your warm welcome as well. I hope we can become friends because (well here tears comes again) I sure could use a few !! because I have none, ooops s let me back up now I have a few now "rainbow and cman (yes cman)" and a few more that i am not thinking of. I should go to that forum and do as you thought would be a good start. GOD BLESS YOU DAN!! Year2027 I want to thank you as well, for your support and welcome to GSC The reason I lasted so long is that I wrote a Ext. letter to Rick Ross about my intent, he agreed. But when the heat got turned up by EX-way groups he shut down the thread, after he told me it was "OK to teach on Way thread", I even went as far as, after 1/2 way through the thread, (I did not want to waste my time) and asked his board monters to look over my posts and make sure I was not Flaming or anything that was not abiding to there rules. They responded "oh you are fine looks good" "He lied" and "he cowered" he will lie again to cover his foot. He got scared, and his site should be avoided (just my thought I am upset with him). A note to any this is my writing and I take full legal Respons. for all its content. GSC is not liable for any post I post in this thread or any post I post period.

That is only but very little of it. But yes. I just hope you do not put me down because of it. I was learning there too. Seems like there is more critics than supporters lol lol. But I really was not trying to be arrogant, as I was accused of. I was just trying to share what I found that is all. If it appeared to come our arrogant it was not ment to be. Anyone that knows me will tell you I am totally reverse. I actually need some of that, I look down on myself more that up.

No you did not hurt me i am torn already. I had friends and a Relatives at one time. I came in contact with this Way stuff it has destroyed it all !! My own Dad and Mother sister and all below them. It has all been over the Bible. I sat here day after day by myself (and wife) and say if i never met this Bible it would have never took place. But I need to look in a mirror and say there is the problem not the Bible. I still have faith that there is a God, but i am not sure if i have been forgiven. Really I am not. I often think I have been a tool for Satan all these last 12 years, and have never know Christ at any time. Even my EX-WAY friends will not pick up there phone when i call anymore. My best friend died last year, and my own Dad beat me up last year and I was 38 YO, I could not hit my Dad. He is a Pastor of a Pentacostel Church who is very legal, and he has told me for 11 years I am going to hell, and going to burn, because "i do not LIVE IT" But I know better than this statement. This is why he beat me. I told him "we could never get to heaven by living it". But now i see what he was trying to say to me (but did not have the accurate words to say) and now i do wonder if I ever was a Christian. As for Rick Ross he is a Anti Cult Leader. I posted almost 300-400 Hrs of work on his forums and he gave me his word as i was posting (doing all that work) "it is ok to teach on WAY thread" He and his staff lied to me. The thread was forbidden because the heat got turned up, and People of the EX-Way groups was really getting ....ed off. I was surfing the Web. and someone on this site reposted some of it on here. I was asked last night in the chat room to post it here at GS. Some people wanted to see it and never had the chance. I thought "I am not doing anything anyway why not" but i see it might just cause more problems. It was some of the research i found out as I was seeing that "THE WAY WAS A CULT" and using to go to Adults in the Chapel to get the "rightly divided word". I just never sat down and compiled it, as i did for RR.com. Now I know why he has nothing on the WAY (they sue to much).

Cman got mad at me for some reason, hummmm I am having problems as to understanding your question there rainbow. you all never give me a chance here you are all over me. am I that bad of a person ?? I take things personal to easy, and cmans post i should have not taken it personal, and i wished he did not get upset with me. and I am a falure at everything so i guess i failed here too. sorry for taking up your time.

The reason is so I will not go over and over this again and again. Many people on here has asked me questions and this answers a lot of them at one time. But you did not get my emails so you did not know.

I was asked to post some of the "Forbidden Posts" that I put on Rick Ross.com last winter. Please understand I am a Man and not perfect by any means. Now please also understand that the Group i found "Grace Research Fellowship" was just a grass roots Ministry, made up of mostly KIDS that is right KIDS.

Well I love to "dialegatol" with you all on this topic. Please bear with me i have problems seeing the text i type. I am visually impaired, so i may misspell a word of two. Please understand. I really am not sure about the Ver. you all are using. I Probably should read through this thread. I have read some It just takes me a while to read them. If I have another View point than you all do hope you will REASON out of the Script. like in acts 17, as Paul 'dialegatol" with the Jews. Not sure if you all are 4 it, or opposed to it. I did see someone did say they use "utterances" heavenly language"Tongues" as some believe to be a communication directly to God, as the Cor. did to there gods before accepting Christ as there God. Let us remember we are talking about Tongues here in this context. I would like to share on what I have learned on this topic, in the finest details, that i can. I do not claim to be a Scholar, I am learning as we all are.

In Dayton Ohio here anyone out there in Dayton Ohio ??