Oneluckymutha

IMO... First of all, I don't really begin to assume what is in another person's heart, but I think it's possible he was born again. What happended with VPW was not all that new or shocking. If you read the word there were more than a few men of God who fell HARD. Like, Saul, Solomon, Eli, even David. Now I'm not suggesting VP is even in the same league with any of them, but it happens. And has all through history. A person starts out with good intentions, getting it right, then majorly blows it at some point along the way. IMO. there were some good, accurate things about the Way, and some bad, totally wrong things about it. I think it's particularly hard as believers to accept that a leader we looked up to and trusted could screw up and dissapoint us so much. But, the good news about it is that we learn the lesson of not looking to a man to think & feel for us. But that we look to God to lead us. I know some people on Greasespot don't even believe in God or Jesus anymore because of being burned by the Way and that makes me sad. But, for those who do, we can take a great lesson away from it. I have learned to never let any person take the place of God in my life again. As far as VPW, I'll let God sort that one out. I don't know if he was screwed up from the beginning or just lost it along the way somewhere. The problem is he influenced so many other people and either way he will have to account for that to God.

I hated this one: "NOW WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT?" This would usually be said at the end of a rather lengthy "grilling session" which included pointing out exactly how I was off the word and me finally relenting that yes, I was wrong and needed to change.

I think this would be for twi - 1 one drink for any reference to: born of the seed; seed of the serpent' seed boys; or just simply, seed. two drinks for any celebrity refered to by name as "seed": such as Barbara Streisand, etc.

Wow, those books JKBoheme refers to sound really interesting. I might look into that someday. This reminds me of Joel Osteen. Have you ever seen this guy on t.v.? He is supposedly the pastor of the LARGEST church in the U.S. right now. I think he is in Texas somewhere. Listening to that guy is like being at a self help seminar. It's easy to get sucked into it. It's real feel good stuff and people just eat it up. Problem is, he's trying to pawn it off as teaching the bible. He hardly even uses the bible to teach. It's all about the self esteem thing. Personally, I've always been somewhat of a self help junkie. But, I am aware of the distinction between true bible teaching and the self-help/success/self-esteem thing. I don't think it's all bad, and can be useful, but it's not the gospel. Anyway, keep up the good info. It's a good thread.

Well, since you ask. I recently was reading through my copy of "Think & Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. And, several parts of that book reminded me of VPW teachings. I don't often think about Way stuff or VPW, but this book reminded me of it. This is a "success" self help type book that first came out in the 1960's, so it would be right in the era of VPW and sources he could draw from. I don't have side by side quotes, but it is more the ideas like: negative & positive believing, the power of thoughts, energy of your conviction, etc. Some of it made me think that VPW must have read this book a few times!! Personally, the longer I live and am exposed to other sources outside the Way, the more I am convinced that VPW came up with very little that was original. Many times I have been listening to a preacher or reading a book of some sort and thought, wow, that could have been quoted from VPW. At one time, I thought everything VPW taught was all stuff he came up with & nobody in the world had ever heard any of it before. Hee, hee. Oh well, chalk it up to my own naievity. Luv, Oneluckymutha

Dear Wondering, In my years since leaving TWI I've come to the conclusion that no one group or person has all "the truth" perfectly anyway. You are assuming that TWI is so close to the truth. But how much have you looked around? Even if you went to a church or fellowship that didn't sync up with what you believe to be the truth doesn't mean you can't learn something from them. I've been to some large churches & small fellowships and learned as much of the bible from them as when I was in TWI. And met some very godly loving people, too. Why not pray about it & see where God leads you. Or what people he will bring into your life? Also, you might go to some fellowships that are off the wall. So what, just move on. When we move & make an effort, then God can start moving. I think TWI put so much fear into us about "the world" and other religious groups. That's just typical cult mentality. To make you so afraid of being exposed to other evil teachings. Hey, God is working within us & we have brains to decide these things. You DON'T need someone telling you every minute of the day what to think or feel. Life can be an interesting journey with God. It's O.K. not to live in a perfect protective bubble (i.e., cult) that "protects" us from screwing up. Well, don't know if I've articulated this very well but here's my main point: Trust God to lead you, not some group or person. Love, Oneluckymutha

Wow, thanks for the reply Jacqueline. Rene is one of my all time favorite people. She was very funny & made me laugh a lot. We did some crazy things that year together. Like sneaking out for Big Mac's at McDonald's the night before a "fast" we were supposed to go on. We did some very interesting door-to-door witnessing, too.. Anyway, I'm glad to hear she got married. Hope she is out of TWI. She is just one of the sweetest, funniest people I've known & really loved God. OLM

One thing that always kinda bugged me in TWI was how we were discouraged from reading outside sources. Therefore, we only read PFAL & related books. However, I remember hearing that Dr. Wierwille read copious amounts from many resources. Gee, was he the only person who could "handle" all this information? Does anyone else find this a little insulting. Were we so mentally & spiritually incompetent as to use our own minds? Personally, I am reading a lot of works by G.K. Chesterton right now. He was a prolific writer who lived in the early 1900's. Although he was Roman Catholic, he has incredibly valuable insights into life. What about you guys?

When it became more painful to stay, than it was to leave. I finally got to the point where I just could not jump through the hoops good enough to keep my TC's off my back. The control & pressure to be what they wanted me to be was more than I could handle. I finally just gave up. Of course, I thought I would end up a greasespot & was really scared. But, since I was pretty sure I was still born again & wouldn't go to hell, I somehow found the courage to bail out. I've been out ever since.... and that is why I consider myself ...... Oneluckymutha

BINGO!

Zixar, Thanks for the correction on the directors' names. Hey, they both have initials J.C., at least, LOL.

Zixar, COOL! I knew there was a reason I liked you....... This is one of my all time favorite movies! Which is odd because I don't really go for horror flicks. The best line of the movie is the very last line. Kurt Russell & a black guy are the only ones left alive. Kurt Russell is sitting there holding onto a gun & the black guy says something like, "So what do we do now? Then Kurt Russell says something like, "We're just gonna sit here & wait." WHOA, this is such a great movie.......... I like the 1951 version too, but its been so long since I've seen it the details are a little fuzzy. P.S. Speaking of John Carpenter. He directed two of my other all time favorites: Terminator & Terminator 2!!!!!!! But, I have NEVER been able to decide which one I like better though. Remember, "Come with me if you want to live!" and "I'll be back!" See ya, OLM

Corrydj, Here's just one side of the believer/unbeliever story. I married an "unbeliever" within a year of leaving twi. I had actually known him while still in twi & he came to twig a few times. But, of course my tc's told me to dump him asap because, "he doesn't have anything going for him". I complied, even though I already loved him. After I left twi, I found him again and we got married about a year later. When I left twi, I was at a very low point, depressed, scared, confused, feeling like a "cop out", and starved for unconditional love. He gave that to me. He loved me for whatever I was. I suppose there was somewhat of a "rebound" effect from losing twi, but that's just the way things played out for me. We have two beautiful children now that I wouldn't trade for anything on earth. Hubby works his butt off at a hard job so I can stay home with our children, which I am eternally grateful for. And he loves me dearly. He is nowhere near perfect, but neither am I. I'm not trying to paint some perfect picture or tell you to marry an unbeliever. I actually think the ideal is probably being with another person who loves God. But, I think God can work in our lives "in spite of" our choices. I would say that I have a deeper understanding of God now, than I ever did in twi. Actually, not having "believers" around constantly has forced me to seek God and learn to trust him on my own. I don't think Christian marriages are any more guaranteed to be good than non-christians. It takes hard work no matter what you both believe. BTW, Christian marriages have about the same divorce rate as non-christians. Don't know if any of this helps you. But I certainly wish the best for you now & in the future.

Yes. Next question? How do I work? I grope. - Albert Einstein

Does anybody know or remember who Rene Walberg (sp) was? She lived with me in a branch Way Home during her apprentice corp. year about 1985, in San Diego. Not sure which WC that would have been?? I think she went to Emporia after that but not sure. She was originally from New York. I still think about her after all these years and wonder where she is...... P.S. Rene, if you are out there, I was Vonski Jabalonski and you were Rene Farley