RachelYsrael

Thank Jeff, I am a big girl. I have been coming around here for years, though. It's not difficult at all, this is like Sunday dinner at Mom's house. Sorry you got the wrong impression. Stick around though, and it will get easier for you as well. As for my intentions... Rachel

Here are some gems (to me) that have jumped out at me over the years. I do not post these to be "preachy" - God forbid I tell grown folks anything. These are just random insights I have picked up through my journey through the Bible. If you all want to discuss, that's great. I share them in the spirit in which I received them - Pure unfeigned joy and delight. I post not to see how many will agree or not. I am posting because I love the Word. Hope you all enjoy as much as I. And I would like to hear your opinions on these jewels. Peace, RachelYsrael The Mountain: Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. They were at The Mount of Olives, right? As the chapter progresses, Jesus makes the statement about casting this mountain - The Mount of Olives into the sea. He says if you believe you can cast this mountain into the sea...But check THIS out: Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Now, I know I am simple minded, and not everyone, if anybody will agree, but I am sure in my own mind that Jesus when He made the statement in Matthew knew that He was going to fulfill the prophecy in Zechariah. I believe He was talking about Himself. He is the "whosover that shall say to that mountain". The Wine: Joh 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Joh 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. OK. The word for woman in verse 4 is: G1135 γυνή gunē goo-nay' Probably from the base of G1096; a woman; specifically a wife: - wife, woman. He referred to Mary as a wife - but not His. I see 2 things here. His hour was not yet come - He is not The Husband at this point. AND (are you ready?) It seems to me that it was Mary's respnsibilty to supply wine. I think one of His siblings - a sister is the one getting married, and Joseph is not present, so it falls on the oldest son to stand in for Dad. The Baptism: Joh 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? This is the Pharisees questioning John. And me searching. The Pharisees knew about baptism. They thought John was The Christ or Elijah becase he was baptising. How did they know about the baptism? The word is not used in the Law at all, only the Testimony. There is a reference to being baptized in the cloud and in the sea in Corinthians, but it is not referred to in Exodus as such. This is as far as I can go with this one... The New Birth: Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, From these verses in John and I Corinthians, I personally believe that to be "Born Again" is a literal change that happens to our body - when we get a new one. Jesus is referred to as the "FIRSTBORN from the DEAD" What I am seeing here is that I will not be born again until my change comes and this body of the flesh is redeemed and made like his new-born body. Let me say again that I am only sharing, not trying to preach or convert anyone. You all have to work out your own salvation with fear(terror) and trembling (quaking and shaking from fear) Here is the first usage of that phrase - just so you can get an idea about what those words mean literally: Job 4:14 Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.

Seems like the books written by "They of the Circumcision" James, Peter and John - SOmeone attemped attempted to have removed. And yet, they were not successful. Hmm... Rachel

Why? Am I having a problem with something? Not discounting the care and concern, for which I do thank you. RachelYsrael

I agree with you about the smug, self-righteousness that is the hallmark of the deluded. It can be very trying at times. I ask the same question about other religious faith = bad... Especially when the other faith is not the "right" kind of christian faith. That's a double-whammy. As to that proof I don't have, may I say you can neither prove that it is NOT true. And I have never relegated anyone, living or dead to hell. That is HIS job. "To believe your own thought, to believe that what is true for you in your private heart is true for all men-that is genius." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson I Remain, RachelYsrael

I kinda pegged Spectrum for a chicka...

You seem SO bitter. Sad. But, I think that's why it's called faith, George. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Rachel

What a beautiful response. I haven't figured it all out yet, Mel...But I understand what you are saying - I am experiencing the same thing around here. But I think we come here because this is our familiar. You would be suprised though at how people have changed. And as to you still being "In"...It's your call. Stay or go. No guilt about either decision. Go Big or Go Home. Rachel

I guess I am just very passionate about the Bible. I see so many contradictions in what "The Church" teaches" as opposed to what the Bible says. After leaving the way, I wondered around various churches, and I got into reading my Bible. And I saw just so much...at odds with each other. I decided one day that I would try my best to obey the Bible. Put my trust in God. Be accountable. Stop the Grace game...I got called, now I want to be chosen. I want to endure till the end. I realized that for me, the best way is through the straight and narrow path, rather than the broad and wide road, if you get my drift. It's been a blast, RachelYsrael

"Doctrinal This forum is for the discussion of religious/spiritual doctrinal beliefs. Since this site is not a religious site, keep all doctrinal discussions in here. " You put me in check, Belle. I forgot that when I talk bookk around here, folks say I am "Preaching". Please note what the doctinal forum is for - Religious/spiritual doctrinal beliefs. The thing is, this tells me I can discuss what I believe in here, so I will discuss what I believe. As to using concordances and maps, of course I do. Don't you? I just don't put much faith in "Established Church Doctrine" after around 100AD. The original Christians believed a bit differently than "Church Fathers" that wrote creeds and held those councils, and more in keeping with the scriptures (Genesis to Malachi). It seems if I could go point by point over all these things Mark has posted and compare them to JUST the Bible, and show how they are contrary to JUST the Bible, you would say I am Preaching at you all.Implying that you don't like what I am saying. And that mindset is correct - Jesus said it would happen. Thanks for your care and concern for my soul.

I try to keep my discussion Biblical - I don't rely too much on so called church history. I think Mark is more concerned with that history and the traditions of men than he is with Thus Sayeth the Lord...It's night and day here. We are talking about different things. I don't want to talk about what I believe to be false religion. Why don't you give it a go?

But I will pray for your soul. Because I do not perceive that you are doing this out of evil, but out of being deceived. No I don't. Thanks. I think a man who thought he was wiser than the Paraclete decided out of pride took some precipitous actions and his followers have been trying to justify those actions for 500 years since. But thanks for asking. (and think of the inconsistency of your last statement) Well Mark, I truly appreciate our discourse, but I am throwing in the towel here. It was fun while it lasted, and thanks for for the prayer. I have a bad cold. Rachel

Hi Mark, Do you not think it possible that the Creator of the Universe, that pulled the dry land out of a ball of water, and hung it in the heavens without rods nor beams... That made man from the dirt, the ground we walk upon, that spit in Adam's nose and gave him breath-life, and made him to be self healing, self replicating and in the image of His Very Self... Do you not think it possible that He personally had those seven books removed from His Holy Word? In His Service, RachelIsrael

I dont think you have a problem trusting people; You, like the rest f us have a problem with trusting and believing God. And faith comes by hearing the Word of God. 2Sa 22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence. Job 15:15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight. Job 15:16 How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water? Psa 11:1 <To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.> In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? Psa 11:2 For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. Psa 118:9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

I am sorry, Mark. I don't understand this here...Please enlighten me. Thanks, Rachel

Well Mark, You obviously are not paying attention. Mark didn't write ALL of the above. Let me run something by you, Mark... Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (I know you are familiar with this one) Now, my Bible is one book. Many writers, one central theme. The above verses say they spoke as they were moved by the holy spirit. And then they wrote it down. We know this because our eyes have seen it, and our hands can touch the Word of Life, right? (You may disagree, but to me the Bible is one book, God can do stuff like that. Pretty nifty trick, huh Mark?) Now, check this one out... To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Now, this verse from the Bible reders to: The Law (OT) and the Testimony - a common reference to the NEW TESTAMENT. Pretty nifty how God did that, huh Mark? I do this to show you that the verses I used in the above quote of yours come from The Law and the Testimony. And you missed it, Mark. The point is that God made sure if you read the Bible as one Book, you will se when Moses said "Ye shall not add to the Word which I command you..." and when John said, "whosoever addeth to or taketh away from..." (Paraphrased) It is talking not about the Words of Moses or John, but it is talking about GOD"S HOLY WORD!!! Holy Men Of God Wrote God's Word. It is HIS. Not John's. And it is one. The Law and the Testimony. That is my point, Mark. Do you understand what I am saying? Not asking you to agree with it, just understand whay I am saying. I certainly understand what you are saying. Please try to do the same with me. Thank You, RachelYsrael PS...I am sure you noticed I did not include the scripture references...Maybe you would like to look them up. Search the scriptures, Mark....

I do not speak any other language than English. Please speak English to me. (Looks like you are a little hot under the colla' Bro) I understand the context of Mark very well...John's disciples were questioning Jesus because they did not keep the traditions of men - the extensive washing of hands before they ate. They held man's tradition to be above the commandment of God. It's pretty simple when you read it. Not rocket science. Ya know. This reasoning can be applied to anything that makes a tradition, like what you call the eighth day sabbath - and elevate it over the word of God. And about that - The eighth day thing, The days of the week biblically are numbered. You cannot find the first day of the week being called the 8th day anywhere in the Bible. It's called the first day. There is however a FEAST DAY called the Eighth Day, it is observed once a year. By folks that know about it. The Seventh Day, however, is the only day in the Bible that has a name. It's called the Sabbath Day. So, if you reason that the Bible says what it means and means what it says, the 7th day is the only day The God of Abraham, Issac and Israel called the Sabbath day. No matther what Good Saint so and so said in 69AD or whenever the frack. Men changed that day, men changed the tradition, and those men also formed the RCC. They esteem the tradition of men greater than the Commandment of God. You may do what you like - But don't try to say all of this spookery is biblical, because it is not. It is religious, yes. But what you are spewing is not from the Bible. Peace, Rachel

What are you referring to WG? What did I say specifcally that you are responding to? I made no statements about illness and possession. May I suggest you read again whatever it was that you thought I said. Rachel

Mark, Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rachel

Mark, But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? Rachel

Mark, The Catholic Church has taken the Bible and rewritten it. While PFAL and the way may seem on the surface to be apples and oranges, they both teach the same things - The biggest being Sunday Observance. The Bible says the Sabbath is a sign between The God of Israel and His people (Strangers included) FOREVER. I didn't write that, and everytime I look in the Bible it is still there. It is a Catholic Doctrine to NOT observe the Sabbath and the Feast Days. Did the way teach anything different on this point? Easter. We observed Passover, right? Wrong. We observed Easter. You can't really do Passover without the following Feast Day - Passover is a PREPARATION DAY for the following feast. Did we observe it Biblically? Did we have Christmas in the way? Totally roman doctrine. Jeremiah 10 tells you NOT to do that...Everytime you look it's still there. Jesus said why do you make void the commandment of God by your traditions? ALL of the traditions the way has, as well as organized christianity came from the RCC. And what I meant about the RCC teaching PLAL - They teach it in their Bible studies...The abundant life ministry is a big part of RCC in the U.S. They also teach people to speak in tongues, just like VP instructed. You may disagree, and that's fine. Go to newadvent.org and look up the following: Sunday Christmas Easter Pork See if the way doesn't do as they do.

So, let's meet here next week and then... Do what we do, right?

Here are some things I have learned since being out...I am sure not all will agree, but I believe it anyway... 1. The Nature of God and Jesus. Is Jesus God and is God Triune? I believe God is the Father and Jesus is His Son, the firstborn from the dead. You are what your father is - human, right? I believe Jesus rose and became what His Father is - A God - Spirit Being. As to the holy spirit, I believe that is the angel Gabriel. If you look at accounts of the holy spirit telling folks stuff, it is usually Gabriel speaking for The LORD. 2. The Nature of Man. Body, Soul and Spirit? I believe Man is from the earth - Earthy. He is essentially dirt. Dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return. Before man was a living lump of earth, God breathed into him and he became a living soul. I do not believe the soul is something independant from the body - they are one and the same. The spirit in man is breath life, literally. Many will say they are Born Again of God's spirit, all the while discountiing that Jesus told Nicodemus everyone that is born again can move as the wind unseen. I can't do that - Can you ar anyone you know? 3. Speaking in Tongues. Is it legit? (I know this one comes up a lot on here) Read my responses on the SIT thread floating around here. It may be legit, I have done it. But I don't know what I am saying. Has anyone ever taped their dialog in tongues and had it professionally translated? There's got to be someone that can do that... 4. Baptism. Baptism in Spirit or in Water? Salvation dependent on one or the other? I believe in water baptism. On "The Day of Pentecost" Many beleived and were baptized in water. It is a recurring theme throughout Acts and I think the way was very subtle in talking people out of this. The word says after they were baptized they were added to the church. You do the math. 5. Believing = Receiving. Is what the Way taught right? I do not believe this formula. In theory, sure. But you have to understand something, you reap what you sow. If you try really hard to live a holy life, you will receive the benefits of it. If you are a no good lowdown dirty rotten dawg, you will also reap the benefits. 6. The Nature of Ministry. What the heck is it? I got out before you could brush your teeth good - I am unclear on that as a doctrine. Ministry...Don't bury your talent, kid. If God gives you the ability to calm down troubled souls (They are alive, right) then you need to do that. If you can help people in any way, that is your minisrty. Do it in light of the word. 7. Prayer. What is prayer really? You are gonna love this one. Daniel prayed, right? The way he did it was to face Jerusalem, on his knees. You see this all through the Bible, people literally bowing down in prayer. I believe prayer is formost worship. Telling God how wonderful he is. Talking to Him. There is a COmmandment that says do not bow down to them, to worship them. Makes me think of the xmas tree. You put your gifts UNDER it, then bow down to get them. It doesn't mean much to us today, but bowing down to something is a big deal in the Bible. There is a record in Kings I think, of a man that was healed and he asked the man of God to ask God to forgive him when he helped his pagan master bow down to his own god - He wanted the God of Israel to know he was just doing his job and it was nothing personal. 8. V.P. Wierwille. A servant of God or a malicious seeker follower. Know man knoweth the heart of a man, save that man and God. By their fruits ye shall know them...It's your call. I cannot say. 9. Ex-communication. When someone stops agreeing with you, do you shun them, or mark and avoid, like TWI? The Bible clearly teaches in 2nd Corinthians that if a brother doesn't keep the Law, we are to avoid them. Until that brother repents. If it takes forever, then it takes forever. How many times do we forgive our brother? And we do forgive, lest satan get his foot in our house. We are not to be ignorant of his devices - Hardheartedness. 10. Salvation. How? If you love Jesus, Keep His Commandments. He that endures till the end shall be saved. It ain't over till the fat lady (Last trumpet) Sings. 11. End result. Heaven or something else? The Bible, not one time, says anything anywhere about anybody living in Heaven. Jesus said Zion is my desire and my long dwelling place, and He has long desired to live in Jerusalem. 12. Rapture. Every believer or some? No rapture. Not like you think. Thank you all who respond to this. I really am curious. I'm also open if anyone has any others they would like to mention that were big way matters. -Jafin

Please be careful. Acts 19 talks about exorcists - It literally means conjurures, that binds things with words. You can get healing annd deliverance on your own. Read the Word, Pray and keep the Commandments. If you love Jesus, that's how you prove it. Good luck to you.

I have some friends in Deleware that got involved with a man named Dale Sides (I think that's his last name - sounds like it anyway). She went to him to cast out demons. Healing and Deliverence is what she said. Cigarette demons, to be specific. The exorcism apparently was a hit, she no longer smokes. But the thing is, she has to go for touch-ups. Every few months or so, the demon has to be ejected again. I think this is so dangerous I can't even speak. God wants us healed from illness. He wants us delivered. But sickness was set in motion at the fall - It's called death. Every ache and pain leads to the first death. Sure, we can be healthy - Take vitamins, run. Take care of yourself. I think the biggest way to get healed physically is to make a concerted effort to not sin. That is our protection. Trying to live as holy a life as we can. There are 10 rules - we all know them. If we try to live by them, we might not be so sick all the time. Sin brings death - and I believe active and willful sin brings ilness. "Sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law' - John wrote that. In one of his epistles. God wants us to have an abundant life, right? Abundant means: "above the common one" Well, what type of life is above the common one? We all are alive, right? I think it means to live again, in our new bodies. Not in this life - This life is the common one. And how do we do that? Endure till the end, then we will be saved. Just obey Him. See if you can keep the 10 commandments for 7 days. I say 7 days because of the Sabbath. Nevermind what we have been taght, just try it. It's good. Afterward you will feel wonderful. And don't lie. Don't steal anything, or bear false witness. Don't commit adultery, or think about sexual immorality. Stop saying God does things you can't prove in the Bible (take His name in vain - That's in Zechariah, by the way - the practical application of it). If you do this, you may very well get some healing and deliverance. Rachel