Broken Arrow

TWI paid about $1.7 mill for Emporia, $2 mill for Rome City purchase price plus renovation) in 1974 and 1977. TWI sold them later for $750,000 each in 1991 and 1999 (not counting ongoing repairs on the old buildings).

Figuring in the fact that 1990s dollars are worth much less than 1970s dollars (and the fact the campuses spent years vacant), a whole lot of well-meaning tithes were lost by leadership error.

As much as the trustees talked about "the best," they seemed to have no eye for value.

Are you kidding? How could that land have depreciated so much? Especially Rome City? I find that hard to believe. I would believe it if they were sold in today's environment, but the 90's were "boom" years for real estate. Even bad real estate.

I would have liked going for a ride in her. She really seemed ship shape at that time.

When was she sold?

And Why?

or was this all part of Craig and the twi bleeding money

I seem to remember it being sold somewhere around ' 87 or '88, but don't hold me to that. Planes really do "bleed money" because even when they're idle they still require a lot of maintenance and thus expenses. TWI got tight on finances round about then, someone put a downpayment on it of like $150,000 but then didn't come up with the rest of the money. So TWI got to put it up for sale again so they made out pretty well and there was a significant influx of cash. I believe this was prior to the sale of Rome City and Emporia. I'm relaying this from memory and it is second hand information from someone who was in the corps at the time. It was definitely after VPW died but even as early as Living Victoriously VP said publically they had considered selling it because of the costliness of it.

It was fun to watch land and stuff but the thing was an albatross from the "get go". They only kept it around to impress people and each other.

Since you didn't specify the subject at hand, I'll assume you are asking, "How old were you when you "got in The Word"?

I was 21.

Ooh! I haven't heard it put that way in a long time!

Dot, It has been a blessing to read your posts. I too am copying them to share with others.

I dunno guys. I mean it's a fairly common belief even among secular sociologists that we're all products of our cultures, environments, backgrounds, upbringing etc. The sad reality is, most of us believe what we are told to believe and then claim we have original ideas. Sorry to be so cynical...but it's true. That's why we have to be open to being wrong, as painful as that can be at times.

As to VPW's statement, "You can't go beyond what you're taught", I suppose you can, but it's not easy.

It was reported here that lcm was so clueless, he thought people would be lining up to take his wap class.

So, the idea behind "full-time ministers" was a full-time SALES FORCE for wap, with the idea that

this would bring in lots of students and new wayfers.

Of course, this failed miserably, and just resulted in having to pay a full-time sales force.

Right after that came a purge of some of the full-time ministers. Coincidence? Doubtful.

Maybe he thought they were homos <_<

WordWolf, I completely agree with your assessment that the WOW program was organized around vpw's sins. As far as it being profitable for TWI, I don't know. I'm not sure that was the point for vp. I think it was more of a control thing. I think he got a charge out of the thought of a bunch of young people going out and promoting "The Word", which, when properly understood, meant we were promoting him. My WOW years were just horrible. I hated it so much I decided to do it twice. Why? I have no idea. The 2nd year was the worst. Now that I'm older with kids I cringe at the thought of putting 2 guys and 2 girls in a home together and they don't even know each other. TWI didn't know much about them either. One could just go to the "Rock" and sign up then and there, and off would some idealistic cute little 18 year old girl who took the "class" 3 weeks before would be traveling across the country and then living with God knows who? In some cases, people would bring their children out on "the field" and expose them to...whoever. It's just plain sick really. You know bad stuff had to have happened to people. Not so much in my "family". We were just 4 people who all desperately needed to be medicated. Wierwille knew and was aware of the dangers. He just didn't care. But I think he got a charge out of the whole thing

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Sorry about that last post. I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate. "I didn't mean to quote the whoooole thing."

Anyone ever involved in TWI needs to read this. Please and start out the New Year out of The Way.

Cult Information Article

...ritual abuse groups may share the following characteristics with coercive cults: ...dogma is more important than people, ... a radical separation of good and evil,... a demand for purity," members are watched all the time and their loyalty is tested "... the dogma is enacted through rituals,... regularly observe(d) rituals, rituals frequently invoke supernatural intervention,... staged events such as planned spontaneity... mystical manipulations, cults capitalize on members' fear and ignorance,... a sense of separateness (is promoted) through an "us" and "them" mentality, ... siege mentality with a paranoid view of the outside world, humor is forbidden, resistance of members is worn down through physical and emotional manipulations, a person's identity is destroyed... to create a new one," members give up their autonomy to be approved," mind control is used to indoctrinate the victim into the group's belief system, individuality is uniformly suppressed,... a well-defined hierarchy," members are used to benefit leader(s), "mind control is used ...to convert the victim to the group's belief system,... to insure secrecy... and to carry out cult instructions. (Safe Passage to Healing p 47 48)

Survivors in cults may be taught to feel superior to others. This creates feelings of alienation. They may be programmed how to behave outside the cult and who to have as friends.

Can people "unknowingly" reporting back to the original cult or other cults (online or offline)?

Safe Passage to Healing states that protector or maintainer alters, may sound like they are still cult active.

It is very important to cut all contact with possible cult members and/or unhealthy groups that may have handlers (people that know the triggers and use them for their own or someone else's benefit.)

The strong need for some survivors to be a part of something, anything, even if it may be harmful to the person. Ends justify the means. Doing immoral things to help "protect" the group. Survivors join the group to heal, but the malevolent survivor groups hidden goal could be to keep them from healing by "messing them up." This survivor group may be controlled or may have been formed by an outside group, cult or organization.

It is difficult to know when one is brainwashed, esp. if this is occurring in an alter. Codependency characteristics can be used by some groups to revictimize survivors, making them emotionally dependent on the group.

Codependency can be defined as a condition marked by an inordinate reliance on person(s), thing(s), or activities, for personal well-being and self-esteem (Breaking the Circle... preface section.) This could include the use of guilt or strong emotions to bond a person to the group.

Hassan's (Combatting Cult Mind Contro) criteria for mind control in a group.

The leader is always right and dissent is frowned upon or squelched.

The organization considers themselves a team and not allow others in, or other survivor orgs. are considered bad.

They are the best org. their team is the best.

The leader or leadership group makes all the important decisions, all must follow, public dissent is squelched.

Some people may take the name of the leader or imitate the leader.

In a malevolent org. those that follow the leader's rules are complimented, those that dissent are told they are difficult or impolite, their opinions are dismissed as an attack, not acknowledged that they might have some validity.

Are those red drapes on the window?

Personally I would consider suspect any group where one or a few persons have absolute authority and where there is some sort of inner circle. When Jesus Christ ascended the Bible says he sent the Holy Spirit (gasp! Capital "H", capital "S"!) and that He would lead us into all truth. Jesus clearly taught that the Church is to be guided by those who are submitted to authority outside of themselves. True leaders are those who are emptied of themselves and realize that they have nothing that was not given to them by something higher, i.e. God. There is opposed to being led by someone who has a "special revelation" from God. That is called Gnosticism and that was very much a part of twi.

The model of leadership exhibited by twi was improper, unhealthy, and devilish. I respectfully submit that at our basic core we as people are selfish. Even our "good intentions" are marred with our own selfishness and desire to control our environments for our own benefit. A leader therefore must be submitted and willing to be wrong and corrected by others. A leader must be intent on guiding others but draw up short when it comes to dictating how others should live out truth in their own lives.