Broken Arrow

Fellow Laborer Training

"The one on the left is a turnip. The one on the right is a weed. Pull the one on the right."

:o

Excuse me...do you mean there's just "one" weed on the right, or that everything on the right is a weed? Also, when you say "pull", I think I saw someone actually "yank"...is that okay? I don't want to get yelled at during mealtime announcements. Maybe we need a "Weed Coordinator".

"Some people who were in "The Way" deny that it was/is a cult."

If you just stayed in your own little local area and went to twig when you felt like it, took classes when they hit your fancy and lived your life by your own dictates, it probably wasn't very obvious to you what you were really involved in.

Yeah but that was pretty hard to do. There was a lot of pressure to do something like go WOW or take the ADV Class, go to some event etc. Some people did it but they were looked down on and considered "fringe believers".

Dear Penworks,

You bring up a lot of really insightful and valid points. I do agree with you that there is a better existence for many than the Way and it's offshoots (or fundamentalism in general). I do not agree with you that the TWI/offshoot experience is simply wrong or bad. I think that the best life someone can live is just to be happy, love others, and help man kind. I don't believe that there is one simple right formula in life that produces good. It is not as simple as just finding the truth and then living by it. You see, the truth can be very elusive, and truth can be very depressing. A person can live their whole life believing lies (we all do) or even being part of an evil organization and still be happy, love others, and help mankind.

In fact, I think every church is based on a hodgepodge of truths, half-truths, and lies. Since being part of something bigger than ourselves is necessary for most people to be happy, i don't think it's as easy as saying that if people left the way they'd be happy. Most people would have been part of some other organization that possessed many bad attributes too. Take the catholic church, for instance. They also require adherence to prescribed dogma. IMHO, the catholic dogma tends to breed guilt and shame. Many people may find more peace and happiness following the catholic church, with its lies, truths, and half-truths than they would in the Way. Other Catholics found more value in TWI and were very glad to leave their church for the Way. Furthermore, I know believers who left a life of crime, hatred, and despair to follow TWI. Sure there could have been better alternatives for these people, but I don't think that we should discount the efforts of those in the Way who helped people find a BETTER life, even though it may not have been the BEST life.

As for me, I spent my whole life in "the Word". I can't rightly say that I would have been better off without the "Word" and the "Ministry" (whether TWI or the many other fellowships that taught the Word. I can pick out doctrines and practices that I really hated. It's been great to share those frustrations here. I can't renounce my whole experience as bad though, it's shaped my entire experience in life and i've gotten a lot out of going to fellowship. I've grown closer to family members because of our common faith. I've been able to meet a huge range of people at fellowships and I was able to practice compassion and charity to a lot of people. Likewise, I've received unconditional acceptance and love. I can't count how many times believers have helped me move or given me great advice. I've learned to work in small groups while witnessing. I've learned to give speak in public at days in the Word and advances. I've learned to control my thinking in a renewed mind classes (no not WC's). I've learned to overcome fear by facing problems. I've learned to deal with rejection while witnessing.

So, I'm looking forward to moving on with my life, but I can't say that I would have been better off without my experience as a Way believer. After all, my choice might have been between being a druggie and being a "believer". I wouldn't have been able to make a clean cut with dogmatic nutjobbery if I hadn't been gone through the whole TWI experience. I'm glad to be moving on, but I know that I'm leaving a lot of great memories in the past. The "ministry" is part of my heritage and I'm ok with that. I guess I'm an unbelieving believer now . . . .

Take Care,

Isaac

I think there is some truth in saying that I cannot rightfully claim I would have been better off without TWI. Certainly I must take responsibility for my own behavior and there must have been something about The Way International that was attractive to me or I would not have stayed for 15 years. There certainly were a lot of people who were not lured in and there was ample opportunity for me to see what was really going on. Moreover other people were able to leave, why didn't I? I did plenty of my own self promotion while I was in and probably would have found another venue to live out my own brokeness. Perhaps it would have been something much worse like drug addiction. Therein lies the rub. I would have been better off if I had been different or if I had been willing to face my own vices. Ultimately that is what it came to for me. I had to face the fact that I personally had some pretty dark issues of my own. It took the loss of my marriage to wake up to that. Was I ready to face my own demons at the age of 17 when I first associated with TWI? Maybe, but I certainly wasn't willing.

I don't remember the thing about not abbreviating The WOW Auditorium. I don't remember Way Prod. singing a song about it either. I do remember when they were building it and it was around the same time TWI decided to start recording things on Beta. I remember being on the field in a state far removed from Ohio when we heard that the first thing TWI was going to put on BETA for us was the Word Over the World Auditorium updates. I mean, they really made a big deal out of this as if putting those updates on Beta was such a treat for those of us on the field. One of my Corps brothers sarcastically uttered, "Oh, thank God!" Anyway, it was one of my first inklings that HQ was living in a world all its own.

I think for all that money, all they got to show for it was a gold plated turd..

Hey...is that on display somewhere in the WOW Auditorium?

Now I get where VP got the idea that McDonald's was actually his idea.

"With a broom and a mop...scub the bottom and top...make that a real shiny floor...you are in the Way Corps!!!"

I knew you were going to do that. Great song by the way.

Try not to laugh too loud...but assuming TWI was a good, wholesome, Christian, organization. it should have acted as a support organization for teaching and training only. People who wanted to would come for a couple of years for biblical instruction and perhaps some training on how to establish a new area, or developing a personal vision. The student would graduate and that would be it. Like I said, try not to laugh too hard. The graduate would go home, or do whatever it was they wanted to do. If the graduate started a work somewhere, The ministry could have supported them with teaching, music, counsel, accountability etc. and take a small percentage (say 3%) of the collection. Each work would stand on its own with the Ministry acting solely in a support function. Can you imagine that actually happening?

The problem is, TWI never was a good wholesome organization and probably had no idea on how to open up new areas and their teachings were weak at best if not heretical. IMO TWI never went "off track" because it was never "on track" to begin with. Wierwille was not interested in "moving the Word" he was interested in W.O.W. That is, "Wierwille Over the Word". People should have been allowed to "fly on their own" with the Holy Spirit and not TWI as their guide and if they made mistakes, well, big deal.

Whoa, FIVE root locales?

I remember when it went from two (Gunnison and HQ) to one (just HQ)

FIVE...HQ, Rome City, Emporia, Tinney, Gunnison. Then there was The Way of Europe (I think).

Dear Erkjohn,

When I said "most normal folks would have moments when they knew it was b.s., and others when they were deluded by their own press" all I was referring to was how a relatively normally thinking mind may consider these things,if it was in WIERWILLE'S position. Or put a little more clearly, I think unless Wierwille had even worse problems than are immediate obvious to me I think it is likely that at times he knew it was a scam and at others he believed his own press.

Now I might be willing to apply it to you if you have scammed thousands of people into believing you were the MOG, or if you believed the lies that were spoken about you in order to bring people into your organization.

So unless you are in any way like Wierwille was in this regard I definitely was not referring to you, or any of the rest of us who ignorantly promoted Wierwille when we didn't know any better.

(a little added for clarity)

JeffSjo...I'm just now reading this. I didn't think you were referring to me with your comment so I wasn't responding to that, at least not defensively. So I apologize to you if I came off that way. In reading your original post I think you were pretty clear. I guess I was just lamenting that I never saw any of the "stuff" while I was in. But it's pretty clear upon re-reading your post that you weren't referring to that. I guess I read that into what you were saying. But I wasn't offended. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Unfortunately, Wierwille's con lives on...thanks to those who had it "within them" to grab the money making whore by her ears and ride her into gloryland. They learned their lessons well.

Where do you think Wierwille learned it? The con stuff I mean? Did he have a mentor, or did he receive it by "revelation"?

I think I was told that guys like MLK, JFK etc had a "Martyrdom complex", either they or the Adversary had it set up.

Right. Men that really did make a difference and stood for something. Those "lightweights" were nothing compared to us who could set up chairs and cut grass in a straighter row that any other organization in the world.

Okay, maybe they weren't exactly classes if you think of a class that's 3 credits and you take it for a semester. These were teachings (classes) that people who weren't necessarily involved in TWI, would come in and teach to the Corps. I'm not being sarcastic, Martin Lucifer King, yeah that's exactly what was being taught from the bully pulpit. The Marxist Minstrels, about the Beatles. Martindale was thrilled when John Lennon was killed. His exact words were that the adversary was done with Lennon and that's why he was dead. That's where people's hard earned money, their ABS was going. Unfortunately, I'm not being sarcastic and I'm ashamed that I just sat there. Maybe I should have just yelled out, YOU LIE!!!

Ah yes. I remember hearing LCM's "great insight" into the death of John Lennon. Some of his other "insights" were that Muhammad Ali was born of the seed of the serpent and it was actually a devil spirit that ko'd Sonny Liston in Ali's first title fight (Cassius Clay at the time. Bill Russell (the great NBA star) was possessed and that's how he rose to great basketball stardom. I'm sure he had plenty to say about Michael Jordan but I was gone by then. In contrast, Adolf Hitler was brilliant. Seriously, he said that at an Advanced Class. I think it was AC '81 or '83. That even made me take a double-take at the time. I know what you mean about sitting there and doing nothing. Of course, if we had said something we would have just been escorted out of the building and branded "possessed". But so what? Oh yeah, I almost forgot. If we left The Way we would be "greasespots".

I wish I had been around for that stuff.

It would have made leaving soooooooo much easier.

And you would have been sooooo much more bored!

I was thinking about one of the classes that was offered at Emporia when I was in the corps. I'm assuming the college division was involved in the class as well. "Natural Family Planning". Now why in the world did we pay people to come in and teach that class when 1. we practiced "real birth control" and 2. we weren't roman catholic and 3. well, we all know what #3 is.

Other non-accredited classes include............. Martin Lucifer King, the myth of the six million, babylon mystery religion, the marxist minstrels, burn the chaff. yeah, no way was emporia going to become oral roberts university or brigham young university. poor disappointed wierwille's.

These weren't classes at Emporia when I was there. They made an entire class out of "Myth of the Six Million?" That's awful!! No, they taught stuff like, you know, the PFAL class and all those "collateral" classes ("Renewed Mind", "Dealing with the Adverssary") And they threw in "Old Testament and New Testment History". Stuff like that. Not that impressive, really, but not as sick as something like, "Martin Lucifer King".

With the College Division thing, you were supposed to get your general educational credits at an accredited secular college and then return for a final year. Very few actually did that. Most would just do the one year program and then do something else like go to a real college or go WOW. They you had people like me who enjoyed pain so much that they went on to college, got a degree, and then entered the Way Corps.

he WAS old enough, and out of the system long enough to figure out pa's carryings on were not exactly the standards of a "great manogawd".. you would think at least.

It is horrifying to think, someone would spend years building professional relationships and a career, to abandon it to go back to da way. Or to drop everything to go back staff on an offshoot.

Erkjohn, so you know, you are not the "bub" I am referring to.

:)

I couldn't figure out how to do the "multiQuote" function so, yeah. I think you are spot on with saying he was well aware of "Pa's carryings on". I'm not so sure he was interested in changing things with the exception of (at first) wanting to instill some value for secular education.

I also strongly agree with what you say about it being, "horrifying...etc". I would just add the word "sad". In Don Wierwille's case, he was without question a skilled educator with a passion for the field. He would have had a great career and perhaps made a big difference for a lot of people but he poured it into TWI.

Also, I did not think I was the "bub" you were referring to but I appreciate your clarification nonetheless.

I don't think that was entirely it.. with money for nuttin and chicks for free.. I mean, how does one turn down that kind of *offer*?

Prior to returning to The Way, Donald was a school principle in Wisconsin and I believe he had a seat on the Board of Education. VPW wanted him to come and be the Dean of the Way C of E. Somewhere I heard that dad offered to pay for son to get his doctorate if he came on staff. I'm not sure if that's true and I can't remember where I heard it. Of course, later he replaced Ermal Owens as Vice President and the rest is history.

And then they gave us a graduation certificate. I think mine says "Bachelor of Theology" because that's what you got if you already had a degree. I used to put it on resumes until I realized it wasnt' worth it. It's bogus anyway. Too bad.

Yeah...but that degree was from The Way College of Biblical Research Indiana Campus. I don't know how they pulled that one off.

It takes more than just a library to become accredited...

Hmmmm>>>

The shame of it all is that there was all that knowledge and people ignored it for .. well you know what I mean and since I am taking College classes now I can honestly say the ability to read the works of some of the all time literary greats and analyze it and understand what they were saying is probably one of the lessons that will do more for my life than any other skill set I learn there.

Certainly more than what I learned thru TWI!

I am still kicking my self ... how stupid was I????

Here is a very very brief over view of what exactly College accreditation is.

http://www.distance-learning-college-guide.com/college-accreditation.html

Yeah, it takes more than a library but ya gotta have one if you want to be a college. Looking at from a broader view. IMO Wierwill was trying to compete, at least in his mind, with Oral Roberts. I mean look at it. Oral has a college in Tulsa, Wierwille wanted a college and Emporia wasn't all that far from Tulsa. Oral JR. was president of ORU, VP brought his son on board to run WCOE. You can actually get a bonified degree from ORU, Wierwille wanted the same thing but he didn't have the resources so he went with that "adjunct faculty" thing. There wasn't a chance it was going to be accredited but maybe VP and DE thought they could "believe" for it to come to pass. I'm just speculating here.

Never ??? no one went there? why did they have it? What a waste!

Waysider excellent link.

Perhaps I can shed some light here. I was also College Division the first year '75/76. Part of the purpose of Owens Library (I remember it as Anderson Library but maybe they changed it) was to get accredidation for The Way College of Emporia. My recollection is that when the BOT purchased the college they thought the accredidation of the original College of Emporia would come with it. What I heard was that the ooriginal C of E had let the accredidation lapse. But I also heard that the Kansas Board of Regents revoked or would not approve an accredidation once TWI purchased it. I don't know which is true. A college could not be accredited unless it had a decent library. Occasionally the Kansas Board of Regents would visit to evaluate the "school" and Donald Wierwille wanted to show them a library. It didn't matter that very few people in the WC or College Division actually used the place. The books that were in there had little or nothing to do with what was being taught in the "classrooms". But I'm sure what was available in the library was true state of the art. However, as someone mentioned, there were some good books to be read in there albeit secular. I forget where they purchased the books. Oh yes, you could check out SNS tapes and read research papers from former Way Corps! That was, of course, something we all clamoured to do on our "self-structured time".

Anderson LIbrary (as it was originally called) itself was kind of a neat building as far as the architecture was concerned and I liked that rotunda. I believe it was one of a handful of libraries that Andrew Carnegie donated for higher education. I heard they've torn everything down and built a strip mall. Is that true?

In one case he was just puffed up by the pedastal that folks put him on, and in the other he deliberately scammed people into putting him on that pedastal.

But most normal folks would have had moments when they knew it was b.s. and others when they were deluded by their own press.

2 things...or as Richard Nixon would say..."just let me say this about that". I clearly remember listening to a SNS teaching from HQ and it would have been along about 1975 or so. VPW, on tape, really nailed the Corps about not having enough respect for him for how accurately he taught "The Word". He was teaching from II Peter 1 and he mentioned by name how neither Oral Roberts or Billy Graham had the the accuracy that he did. Then, to make his point very clear, he spoke into the mic and said that, E.W. Bullinger didn't have "it" either. I remember this because I was 18 years old and it really shook me up. He didn't come out and actually say that he was the "Man of God", but he definitely said he had the greatest teaching and revelation of "The Word" of anyone and in PFAL (or as some affectionately call PLAF) he all but said the teaching was the greatest since the Apostle Paul. I just sat there at the age of 17 and said, "UUHHHHH...YUP!! SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!!"

VP being the MOG was pushed very heavily in the Corps. LCM screamed it from the rafters. VPW let other people say it for him, but I have a hard time believing that he didn't propogate this himself and let others carry the fight for him. He certainly never said anything against it.

So, I said all of that to say this, I think VPW deluded himself into believing that he was the MOGFOT. Many of us, and I'll speak for myself, replaced Christ with him.

BTW, when you say "most normal folks would have moments when they knew it was b.s...." Not me. I swallowed it all, hook, line, and sinker. Than again, maybe I wasn't a normal folk. I was, after all, in a cult.

And while such things can seem dumbfounding in that we actually bought them, I think it just goes to show how that the whole IDEA of "serving God" can actually be utilized to blind many eyes as to what is really going on in any given situation.

Well said JeffSjo...very well said.

Would have been a good scene for "The Real McCoys".

Walter Brennan lays there in bed--- Little Luke and Hassie "fetch" the family Bible---Pepino whips a big red bandana out of his overalls and wipes his tears before blowing his nose----Suddenly, Grandpa McCoy breaks out into a tear jerking rendition of

just before the lights go out forever.

I'd still like to see a scripture that gives some credibility to this as being "Biblical".

Oh man, that's one of the funniest things I've seen for quite awhile! I have the same question...where do you come up with this stuff?

I think he knew all along it was a big scam.

I have my own personal reasons for believing that.

My apprehension all started one day in 1972 when he "gave me the finger".

Maybe he considered that a type of blessing.

Going waaaay back...I vaguely...and I mean very vaguely...remember something about Bishop K.C. Pillai teaching this. You remember K.C. Pillai, right Waysider? You know, the author of Light through an Eastern Window? Hope I'm not giving you serious flashbacks now.

Also, don't some eastern religions teach this like with the Samurai etc. Maybe that's just a Hollywood thing.