Broken Arrow

Yes. . . . . and much of it was heavily influenced by the Word of Faith Movement. Which makes sense given the time frame. . . . http://www.gospelout...twordfaith.html

I think you are seeing some of the spill over or second generation revelations in groups like STF with its Personal Prophecy and God not being completely in control. That too makes perfect sense given what the leaders of STF came from. . . . . it is that special knowledge that no one else understands. . . they hold the keys to God's Kingdom. . . . so to speak.

"Special knowledge" you say? You mean, like maybe TWI, STS and rest are/is modern day gnosticism?

Not only did I make grave errors in judgment when getting involved with TWI, but I was seduced by big fat claims about the nature of the system I was in. It claimed to be a biblical research ministry but it is extreme fundamentalism. I suggest more of us get informed not only about how cults function but what fundamentalism is and the history of its development. It’s not only a way of interpreting the bible but a way of existing in the world.

I thought this was a good video dealing with fundamentalism in support of your statement that "it is a way of existing in the world".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsAbgfAGzlE

While I appreciate this video I get a bit leery when someone starts pointing at surveys and drawing conclusions. One has to find out about the sample. That is, who exactly was interviewed, how many, who performed the survey, what were the questions asked, and how were those questions framed. There are people who are trained in conducting surveys because it's easier than most of realize to mislead people in one direction or another.

I just find it hard to believe that 1 out of 3 conservatives believe that Obama is the Antichrist. Frankly, I would find it hard to believe that one out of 3 conservatives are even Christian, much less fundamentalists. Of course, I don't have any facts to back up my claim, I'm just saying that I would take this interview with a grain of salt.

It would seem the individual interviewed wants to make a case against fundamentalist Christians and brand them as nuts. Some are, no doubt. But fundamentalism doesn't hold the corner on acting idiotic. There are idiots everywhere, many of them get elected to U.S. Congress and they exist on both sides of the aisle, and they are involved in every issue.

I'm not defending fundamentalism. What I see as a main problem in this country and the world is that we are spending too much time looking for someone else to blame instead of working together to find solutions to our problems.

I do appreciate seeing this video because it's important to expose oneself to different points of view. I especially like his comment about, "saving Christianity from Christians." I thought that was funny. I think he intended it maliciously, but I still thought it was funny.

There was also the "The Way Corps Poem", which was a re-written rendition of a poem about Boystown. It was credited as such. The first line was, "Not ancient walls or ivy mantled towers where dull, denominational traditions rule with heavy hand believers deeply springing powers." Yeah right.

Babylon Mystery Religion and Challenging Counterfeit were required readings for the Advanced Class. In my Corps you were supposed to read "How to Enjoy the Bible", by E.W. Bullinger. I can't remember any others. They came out with "Jesus Christ Our Passover" and "Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed" about that same time.

I agree with about everything said so far. I would like to add that even though it may seem like it, you are never alone. There are thousands who can relate to what you are going through. Also, God (or fate, or whatever) has a way of leading you to the right places and people if you keep your heart open and pliable. Be willing to be wrong, and try not to take yourself too seriously. Offshoots, in my opinion, will delay your progress.

He must have learned that from LoyM. I saw him throw many temper tantrums over minor issues such as this. If someone didn't meet his car to direct him where to park, (that was a 25 minute rant) coffee cups turned the wrong way, his car seat not being put back to the right position after being cleaned for him...it went on and on. Makes me wonder how he has survived the real working world.

Perhaps he has (or had) a patron.

He had a very cool snake that he'd invite our oldest over to watch eat it's mouse from time to time.

I forget what ever happened to Robert.

Umm...is the snake also missing?

That middle of the night strategy seemed to be quite popular in TWI.

(We had them in FLO, as well.)

Why?, I don't really know. Maybe it was to take people off guard. Maybe it was to frame the message in an aura of false urgency. Maybe it was because people are more willing to relinquish control of their logic and reason when they are sleep deprived. Personally, I think it was a method they borrowed from legitimate applications, such as the military, and exploited to their advantage. What I do know, from personal experience, is that it can prove to be very effective at squelching opposition.

I don't know, but I will say that waking prisoners up in the middle of the night with a "bang" was a brain-washing technique used by the North Koreans. At least that's what I was taught in Principles of Democracy class in high school. I heard the same thing taught by John Somerville when I was College Division when the 6th Corps was in residence. LCM was at that same meeting. I'm not drawing any hard and fast conclusions here. Still, maybe there's a correlation. Then again, maybe not.

I mentioned the high school class thing to give it more credibility.

What I'm talking about is the things that relate directly to TWI teachings.

Stuff like someone you've gotten to know fairly well revealing to you they take meds. for bipolar disorder or that they've been a recovering alcoholic for the last ten years or that they have cancer or that they are homosexual but in the closet. That kind of stuff. When I was in TWI, I would find myself in those situations and suddenly feel a sense of paranoia about what I may have revealed to them. What have I said? Was I talking to a devil spirit? yada, yada, yada. Plus, there was always that guilt that I must have missed on the discerning of spirits angle.

I worked with a guy for a couple of years who was very normal. Very nice person. One day he revealed to me that he started life as a female but had surgically changed his identity to male. All kinds of TWI thinking goes through your head at times like that. Now, years later, I feel foolish and guilty for allowing my "Waybrain" to ruin what had been a good friendship. That's what I'm talking about.

I'm only guessing here...but I'm thinking you must be the type of person people feel for whatever reason comfortable telling you their struggles. The real shame is that TWI "short-armed" you at a time where you may have been in a position to offer some compassion and understanding. Good thing you're out.

Well, I have had conversations with people I was pretty damn sure were possessed, in fact, worked with a woman for a year who would blow up for no discernible reason and threaten to "go postal" on someone or other, usually the hapless soul who sat the closest to her desk, me. I wouldn't tell her where I lived, though she begged to come out and see the garden. She could be very pleasant one moment and then screaming about "the white man was out to get her" the next.

A couple of us were threatened by this woman. She had a pair of scissors at her desk with blades about a foot long, and I was pretty sure they were going to end up in my back or my supervisor's back. We were both very cautious about what personal information we gave her, locking our purses away when we left our desks even for a minute, lest this woman get our addresses pay a midnight visit to our respective abodes.

I don't think this was out of fear, just out of prudence. This woman was seriously deranged if not possessed, and we all breathed a sigh of relief when she announced she had had it with all of us and was transferring to another department.

WG

I think she took a job with the government.

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Never mind.

I thought it was incredibly stupid and made us sound asinine (not to mention brainwashed) to say "Happy Household Holidays" to everyone. Two stories:

First one: I'm in FLO and we have to go door to door witnessing in Delaware Ohio a few days before Christmas. It's colder'n'hell out, about four inches of snow on the ground and more coming down. I'm paired with this way-brained, legalistic sort who is grumbling and growling about how much he hates all the decorations everyone has up. "Why?" I asked. "They are devilish; they bring devil spirits into peoples' homes and make them think devilish, selfish thoughts! I hate Christmas, too! It's a pagan holiday!" I told him we were not going to one single door to speak to anyone with him in that kind of an attitude.

Second one: Years and years later, we are in NC and at a party at the BC's home for Don W. and Mrs. VPW, who have come down to see one of his daughters who is a WOW in Charlotte that year. Teachings, Don speaks, the theme of course is the truth about Christmas and how important it is to know the truth and always say "Happy Household Holidays." After the formalities, we all get to circulate and greet and eat, etc. So I walk right up to Mrs. Victor Paul Wierwille and what comes right out of my mouth? "Merry Christmas, Mrs. Wierwille!" I was mortified and stammered apologies for my gaffe, but she just laughed that merry laugh and said, "Oh, that's all right, honey, I say it too sometimes!"

WG

You know what's even more stupid? And I was waiting for this to happen. The word "Christmas" was supposed to be bad because VPW said it derived from "Christ-Mass", or a "Mass for Christ". VPW said "Christ-Mass" was a funeral so we were supposed to say, "Happy Household Holiday". The word "Holiday" comes from middle english meaning "Holy Day". The Bible says we are not to esteem any day "holier than another". Therefore "Happy Household Holiday" was every bit as pagan as the word, "Christmas". Actually, someone else whose name I can't remember came up with this. For years I waited for this bit of enlightenment to dawn on our leadership, but it never did, at least to where that, too, was changed. It was all about ego and shoving things down people's throats. I thought it was stupid then and I went along with it because that's pretty much how I handled things back then.

ok I got one!

I was in a small music group that played for the 'twigs' and other functions. I mean we really had a good time. There were four of us in the group, including the wife of our fellowship leader. One night the twig leader told us that he wanted us to play some Roy Rogers song for him (I was so ....ed about it I cant even remember which one to this day!), but we all thought he was kidding because that was his nature...most of the time he was trying to be humerous.

Then one night he called us all together and began lighting into us (or 'reproving' us to be PC) because we had not taken the time to play this dumb-@ss song for him, and proceeded to tell us how selfish we were being and on and on and on...it was a total joke! Needless to sya three out of the four of us said "f___ this" (bet cha cant guess which one wanted to keep it going!)

So in my mind that was pretty stupid, I dunno; what do y'all think?

Yeah, I vote for stupid. He should have been thankful there was even a group of musicians who would play, and it would not have been out of line for him to, um, let's see, uh...oh! Ask Nicely? But to issue an order and then get po'd because you wouldn't comply? Nah! He was just looking for a moment to "act spiritual".

Where are the George Muellers ???

Where are those who hazard their lives for the gospel's sake ???

Where are the Hebrew 11 types who stood against defying odds ???

Oh, they're still around. You just can't find 'em in the places you mentioned (Internet, TV etc.) They're out actually doing things for people and it ain't signing folks up for a class, or trying to impress others with their great intellectual knowledge of whatever. But you're right, a lot of poo-poo is being shared as well.

Never mind.

I hadn't thought about it until I saw someone else mentioning it..... I completely forgot my WC graduation this year too...

You mean you like, completely forgot to show up? Now that would be cool.

thank da mogs for such present truth..

probably took renewed mind efficiency to use the prescribed three squares of paper, or whatever it was..

I figured if I got caught using more than my "fair share", then hats off to whoever the person was who caught me. Furthermore, it was shared that toilet paper was not for runny noses. If you had a cold and you used toilet paper to take care of a runny nose, then it was stealing. Yup! Biblical Research at its finest!

Unemployment rates in Northwest Ohio are approaching the 20% level.

"The hardest-hit areas are rural counties in southern and northwest Ohio. Williams, Fulton and Henry counties, a cluster of counties in the state’s northwestern-most corner, posted 15 percent unemployment of higher. Huron County suffered the most job losses, with 18.3 percent of its residents filing for unemployment status."

Source: http://www.madisonpress.com/local.asp?ID=1604&Story=1

Those are the areas around HQ, right? Hmmm...I thought their presence was supposed to provide a blessing for the rest of the area. Oh well, guess not.

never mind.

It all just fits like a foot fits in a mouth.

Big hair, shoulder pads, dark lips, purple eye shadow, leg warmers, Jordache jeans, Chinese flats, Michael Jackson, big hair metal, glam rock, rock ballads, Luke and Laura reunited, SNL Eddie Murphy, Alice, Cheers, Night Court, Growing Pains, Full House, Mash finale, Ronald Reagan, Bush Sr, Hands Across America, Stock Market Crash, Berlin Wall came down, Chernobyl, Baby Jessica, Exxon Valdez, Aids, Challenger, SF Earthquake, PTL scandal, Dirty Dancing, Brat Pack, Back to the Future, Karate Kid, Footloose, Vacation, Blues Brothers, Arthur, Bill & Ted, Ghostbusters, Rainman, Yuppies, Junk Bonds, Max Headroom, Garfield, Care Bears, Nintendo, Rainbow Brite, Madonna, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Blossom, Dynasty. . . . and DollyWood opened.

Now you are caught up. :)

Man! That's almost as good as the song "We Didn't Start the Fire" from Billy Joel!

Everyone has a worldview. . . . but, . . . and this is me. . . . rejecting one based on our experience with an aberrant biblical faith is short sighted.

Just so I'm clear, are you saying one shouldn't reject fundamentalism based solely on an experience in TWI?

And now for my 2-cents. My recollection is that it was called, "The Victor Paul Wierwille Word Over the World Auditorium. I think it was at Living Victoriously (1982) when the BOT with Wierwille as President announced that VP had asked them not to name it after him until after his death. The BOT still named it after him but agreed not to actually call it "The Victor Paul Wierwille...etc." until after his death. He died shortly after the official opening so most of us remember it carrying his name.

In 1982.....twi was aggressively trying to send out 4,000 WOWs for the 40th Anniversary year. It was one of wierwille's "call to arms." The number was not reached....otherwise, twi would have blown the triumphant horns on this. Yeah, 3,100 sounds about right.

<_<

Then he stood in front of the entire Rock of Ages and cried about how his "heart ached" and basically said we had let him down. At least that's the way I remember it. But that's another topic.

Congratulations!

You are the new Weed Coordinator!

You know...it just dawned on me that "Weed Coordinator" can have a whole different meaning depending on one's perspective. I'll take the job!!