TheEvan

Here's another'n, just for funzies. White Christmas Y'all with your picks, etc. Real guitarists grow their own...

It's true, exc. AA can't help anybody. You either take personal and total responsibility for your own actions through the steps or you never change. If he never took full ownership & responsibility for his own deeds to the point of making amends, he failed. I guess he went to some meetings, eh?

I used to disrespect 12-step programs, but that was before I knew what I was talking about. I think it represents a more real, honest and practical Christianity than most folks have ever seen. Keep on keeping on.

Okay folks, time to submit your Christmas songs. Me first. This is my first try at recording on my new Edirol recorder, quick and dirty: O Holy Night

That out-of-balance license & law juxtaposition was carefully crafted, in my opinion, to both exert tight control while promoting loose sexuality. More scores for the leaders, got it? It's a natural result of the teaching.

A giant pot is a-simmering, mean as a horse's breath. Turkey & sausage. I prefer the non-okra variety. You?

Besides the above, there are a number of larger churches that do house fellowships of one kind or another during the week apart from (and in some cases, instead of) Sunday church services. You might try calling around area churches. One is bound to have a small group that meets during the day. You might find that doing it apart from former Wayfers may be refreshing. I'd urge it.

Huh? Well then, who is She?

Very, very typical Way behavior you're describing there. Funny, but precious few ex-Way seem to make a caual link between such *common* behavior and the belief system. I do and trashed the whole thing. Regardless, your best strategy is to keep things off the bible subject first of all by avoiding talking to them or the weather or sports, etc. That superior attitude comes with the teaching and you'll not break it yourself.

1. Try doing a google search on "house church". 2. Perhaps one of your faults could benefit from 12-step meetings. If the vague "higher power" thing doesn't ring your bell, some churches have "Christian 12 step programs". I bring it up because you'll find powerful & honest fellowship there on a very personal level. Worth a try. And no need to hide your habits.

I do. I LOVE hearing a twisted exegesis of John 1:1 trying to prove otherwise. Hint: Most wayfers have been fed a twisted view of the Trinity. They think that Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ is God the Father. They'll hang that straw man to the wall and give it a good beating.

Well, I'm un-soundly Trinitarian. Hee-hee. I know plenty of ex-wayfers in churches, though I'll say there's a tendency for them to land in Charismatic and/ornon-denominational type congregations such as Vineyard. Still and all, considering their Way background, it's a pretty big step that represents to me significant growth away from an inward-facing insular group toward the wide-wide world of wonderful people. I'm sure you well realize that you'll never argue them out of their attitudes. Be a lovely person to them...I'm sure you are.

And little wonder: Both of those cute harmless little sayings came from the Original MOGFART™ hisself.

Has lots to do with it. EF Schumacher, the German born/Oxford educated economist-philosopher. In economics his book "Small Is Beautiful: Economics As If People Mattered" remains a centerpiece of environmentalist economic theory. His amazing book of philosophy:"A Guide For The Perplexed", which is a critique of materialist scientism and an exploration of the nature and organisation of knowledge. I'm a huge fan of "A Guide For The Perplexed", less so of "Small is Beautiful". His philosophy can be found in the exposition of "direct vs. mediated knowledge" in "Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television" which I remember circulating among some wayfers I knew. Our shift from direct to mediated knowledge has caused to not "know" anything like we used to. Now, if it's not documented in some way, it's not real. Yet, the most essential things that govern daily living are impossible to be scientifically structured. I could get a detailed analysis of you in a spectrophotometer, by MRI, etc. and would still be 100% ignorant of Garth. In that way, the Bible account tells me more essentially of our current state than any set of proven or theorized mechanisms ever could. They miss the essential points and address none of our problems. (Only a tad off topic)

No, mechanistic. I meant mechanistic. Try some EF Schumacher on for size. I think you'd like it, politically as well as philosophically.

That's why the "science vs. faith" problem poses no problem for me. Science cannot touch the most important things in life...not just religion. Science used to be part of philosophy, and a component of a liberal arts education. Used to be. We've become so mechanistic in our thinking that it just isn't so unless some scientific proof has been put to it...whatever "it" is.

Excellent posts, T-Bone. You helped sharpen my thinking in some areas.

After working some, I moseyed over to musty & cozy Cottonwood Books where I was the only customer. I enjoyed sharing my time between the shelves with the resident cat. I walked out with a nice 1880's set of Sir Walter Scott's Waverly novels for my daughter who is a fan of both Scott and old books. Shopping, Pyle-style.

It's a bit like reading The Amplified Mark, or possibly The Annotated O'Malley

Feb is fine 'till 17th...then I'm off to Africa again.

In a heartbeat, dear lady. I make an excellent tour guide.

Certainly. Every culture seems to have their inherent balance between these sometimes competing interests. My experience is that, although many live lives of what we would consider suffering, the general level of "Happiness" is much greater. I've often puzzled over this. One thing I could offer is that there isn't such anxiety over life choices that need to be made. I'm sure there's more. However much we recoil at their lack of choice, I've found they recoil equally at the thought of 'doing your own thing' in many areas.

Here's a bit more of the anecdotal, Mark, from a worldview quite different from the West. I wonder if it couldn't shed some light on biblical perspectives? I'm speaking of the East African cultures I've experiences firsthand. As regards to having children, the various tribes with whom I've stayed seem to have a common general approach. The overriding principle is community/village first, and family in context of that community. They see marriages in light of what they contribute to the community and as such the leaders and elders have a say in such matters. Producing children is paramount to a marriage union there. You'll not see divorce for any reason except not bearing children. There, the a#1 reason for a marriage union is to produce children. #2 is probably to insure that those children are productive memebrs of the community. I'm not sure if happiness figures into the mix. To take our Western worldview of personal choice and self-fulfillment and attempt to apply it to biblical concepts causes a dissonance not easily remedied.

Thanks for the thoughtful post, waysider. dancing, I really don't understand. Why so hostile?

Who says they're controlling? This is a group for people who've already decided that's the way they'd like to go. I don't see the controlling. Incidentally, I can see aspiring to an earlier era absent our coarseness in mores, music, language, the arts, lierature, etc. Anyway, they have their club, and they're hurting nobody & breaking no laws. Right?