higherground30

58 minutes ago, skyrider said:

Thanks waysider.....

Can't imagine how others, if they ever heard about this, would want to send abs-money to fund this....

Maybe this added information will help one more person decide to leave that cult.

Exactly preach say it again

And another from Dean Martin

Ain't that a kick in the head

Double whammy from another favourite group of mine The Bellamy Brothers 

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Of course, the subject of this thread, John Linder hypothetically writing a tell all memoir, gives him numerous options for making a very substantial living, whether by loyalty or not.

Exactly

And MRAP, I refuse to sit on my hands thanks 

This book if told uncensored and truthfully by John would send twi cult to the dump

What's holding you back Mr Linder?

On 01/02/2017 at 4:29 AM, skyrider said:

Here at GSC......our desire to help expose the way international cult.....does NOT stop there! 

The tell-tale signs of cults are consistent across the board.  Same tactics.  Same techniques.

Here at GSC......these discussion forums were instrumental in exposing the CES-splinter CULT.   CES is in a Mess......

~~~~~~~

 

So yeah.............lots of us are passionate about BREAKING THE STRANGLEHOLD OF ALL CULTS.  

TWI-gatekeepers

BOOOM!! Right on Skyrider

On 06/02/2017 at 10:35 AM, frank123lol said:

Heard Loy was teaching publicly again in Ohio

Oh no!

Doobie Brothers Listen to the Music

Enjoy from Sunny Australia 

Hey Tbone maybe this song would've helped you during the family Corp time

Eric Clapton turn it up!

On 26/01/2017 at 11:38 AM, penworks said:

So sad. Beyond sad ... it's despicable how people were manipulated, hurt, and used in TWI. My heart goes out to all who were hurt by TWI leaders/members, beginning with VPW who was the one who modeled destructive behavior in the name of following God's Word. Not all leaders became equally destructive, but the potential was there. In my opinion, the root of all the evil perpetrated at TWI was VPW. It all goes back to him. Do not forget that. I knew him. I often wish I'd never met him, but I did meet him, and I was trained by him, and I learned hard lessons. I wasn't paying enough attention. I rationalized his bad behavior. I let his showmanship cloud my judgement about him. T-Bone put it well, "You cannot make someone pay attention to something that he or she does not want to notice."

Wake up, people. Do not let TWI doctrines make you feel you should obey them or obey TWI leaders or TWI followers' idealistic view of what The Way is. It is not a transparent organization. Where on their website do you see any credentials for what they say they do best: biblical research? No where.

Yes Penworks I agree with you what a time for you.It's good that you pointed out where the root of it all began.Looking forward to also reading your book Undertow 

Cheers Penworks

Tbone

That right  enough said

On 14/12/2016 at 2:54 AM, skyrider said:

When did twi's stranglehold on wierwille's mog-status, impact and legacy lose its grip?

1. Did the stranglehold cease when many clergy/corps dissented and exited in late '70s or early '80s?
2. Did the stranglehold cease when wierwille died in May 1985?
3. Did the stranglehold cease when geer read "The Patriarch" paper at corps week, 1986?
4. Did the stranglehold cease when lynn and others wrote that 37-page proclamation?
5. Did the stranglehold cease with an exodus of a reported 80% of corps leadership?
6. Did the stranglehold cease when dozens of splinter groups started preaching "the truth?"
7. When did the stranglehold cease?

Well......imo, the stranglehold ceased when twi-gatekeepers could NO LONGER control the message or contain the secrets.  The leaders (cough, cough) who exited en masse after "the poop paper propaganda" did very little to release the wierwille-the-man-of-God vise grip.  The geer camp kept beating the same drum.  The lynn camp did better.....but just seemed to sidestep the wierwille doctrine/legacy in many ways.  What about the finn3gan camp?  The summ3rville camp?  Others?  The shr0yer camp seemed to embrace the wierwille doctrine more closely.....of which, the two younger wierwille kids hitched a ride to keep the embers glowing?

The stranglehold was BROKEN when Waydale in April 1999 took the fight directly at Martindale and twi.  The full onslaught of punches caught martindale/twi off guard and in a defensive posture.  Pa-ul All3n hit them with an uppercut that left them staggering to find the ropes.  From a position of husband-rage and legal strength, this man went on a relentless, 18-hours a day, flurry of punches that staggered the corporate "giant."  Month after month, the scandalous secrets poured forth on Waydale.  Twi mandated that their followers stay off the internet and, it didn't take long before martindale had to publically admit to this "consensual affair."  Twi knew that Waydale was, indeed, a formidable foe.

A second lawsuit erupted......and martindale's fate was sealed.  Cover-ups.  Silence.  Lawyers.  Depositions.

The All3n lawsuit was settled out of court and sealed from prying eyes.  Martindale was ousted.  Within a year, 7 region coordinators had sent in their resignation letters and headed for the doors to separate themselves from all things twi.  Amazingly, the loyalist trunk coordinator, panasmello around like 2004 and started on offshoot and STILL clings to wierwille doctrine (from what I've heard).  Greasespot Café didn't miss a beat and picked up when the Waydale websie, under settlement agreement, was to close down.

But make NO mistake.......it was NOT the staunch defectors from the 1986 exodus who broke the twi-stranglehold.  Many of those men went forward to fill their pews and pockets with the wierwille-deception, the fake-truth doctrine, that they embraced.....still.  They simply wanted the deception, and funneling of money, to continue as long as possible.  They were, and are, complicit in leading these followers astray.  Woe unto them.

Waydale........thank you!

GSC.........174 pages and counting, on About the Way forum.

 

A big thank you from me and I'm just a rookie on here 

Oldskool,

I too was guilty of 'worshiping' martindale and am deeply disturbed and sorry that I ever did.He STOLE and DESTROYED many many many lives.Teared families/marriages apart.Bullied people manipulated,duped and scamed alot,the list goes on....It wasn't until I came across Greasepot Cafe, the extent of his hidden evil psychopathic reign.martindale has not yet apologised or made amends to any of the families/individuals and for that I call you martindale a coward.You became a greasepot and your 'legacy' went down in flames.Rosalie is no different same goes for Donna

The reasoning behind me joining GSC cafe is to get solid,informed and speak out against this cult.Like Ralph D / Paul Allen and others before me who took It to 'way heads' front on, I am reminded and strengthened that these guys at the top of twi chain are not invincible

Message to the way heads if you are reading this Let your congregation know the 'TRUTH' because isn't that what sets you free? It may even set you free if you have a conscience or heart

Thanks Oldskool you sure did nail it on the head our lives are alot more these individuals think they are above all.Like skyrider said In one of the threads about double standards!

Ralph 

You are a great man even though I wasn't around 'fog years' 

I am thankful you took a stand against all the evil happenings during that time

And for that I salute you Sir

OK apologies I got my picks wrong 

Haha but all I can say is il just watch the final with some beer and wings and may the best deserved team win!

On 22/01/2017 at 1:12 PM, T-Bone said:

I thought of a few things on the duality of life – and thanks, Rocky for the link on duality.

My former ministry-mindset would NOT accommodate a duality – rather it focused on supposed dichotomies…conditioned for either-or thinking only. Which is an interesting tangent - it's a false dilemma (see link below) – when only two choices are presented – yet more exist  - the type of thinking vp promoted tended to eliminate options and through deception and fallacies one was more or less “forced” to choose his way – because all other options according to him were insane, devilish, worldly, off the word , blah blah blah.

false dilemma

excuse the digression – but I thought it sort of goes with the duality thing.

We were taught that any financial hardships, failures, health issues, etc. were always our fault, we weren’t believing enough, we weren’t putting the word first, we weren’t abundant sharing enough, we weren’t speaking in tongues enough, blah blah blah. What was it with this insane obsession we could manipulate reality – if we would just knuckle down and do all those release-the-genie-in-the-bottle techniques.

We were not encouraged to embrace all of life (take the good with the bad) – but rather to ignore whatever aspects did not fit with TWI’s paradigm. If your spouse…friend…(whoever – you fill in the blank) doesn’t agree with what TWI says is “the word” – then they can take a hike. If you can’t think “the word” at your job – then get a new job.

I think embracing all of life is more realistic – to accept the duality of life - if I want to “own” all the good fortune that comes my way then I think it’s only fitting I should also “own” the unfortunate things that so often comes with the territory. I am so blessed – I am still so crazy about my wife Tonto – she is my inspiration. The odd thing about it is – if I hadn’t been in TWI and gone WOW I never would have met her….yes…it’s true…I married my WOW sister. Scandalous indeed!

However – this worked out pretty good – more than anything else or anyone else – she has been the most helpful to me with my ongoing “project” of unpacking/sorting/analyzing/dealing with the mental baggage of a lifetime (not just TWI stuff)…hopefully I’m becoming a better person or less of an a$$hole…six of one half a dozen of the other…ahhhh there’s that duality of life again…I’m a  better person and less of an a$$hole.

Two years after we left TWI our daughter was born…with Down Syndrome. Again I am so thankful we had left TWI – I don’t think I would have handled parenthood properly if I was still in TWI. My concerns would probably have been more centered around myself – what is the matter with my believing? What will other believers think of me? Fortunately for my daughter, when I left TWI I had nothing BUT MY FAMILY to be concerned with. I’ve heard it said people with disabilities often draw out the best in others. I think that is true. Sometimes when we go somewhere like on a vacation or family outing I find myself wondering if I were her what would make this thing we’re doing more enjoyable. I’m really into developing empathy.

Tonto and I have been together for over 40 years. Through thick and thin….WOW, Family Corps….we’ve survived a cult dammit! Through financial hardships, ups and downs in our separate career paths, health issues, car wrecks, helped our son pursue a contractor trade, raising our daughter with a disability. There’s no way we’re giving up on each other now after all we’ve invested in our life together.

 

Your a good man Tbone! !

E.W Bullinger 

I hear you, and I can only say 90% of the reasons I left was due to legalism 

My personal grievances within the way

*2x2 was big in the 90s. I remember a former member had to write down where,who,when,what and why he was attending an event,that event the local pub down the street!! He had to file written permission just to go to the pub without another 'believer' 

*Reproof and correction during the 90's I saw alot of adults getting reproved ,face reamed , character assassination all for the sake of small things!Anyone would think it was a madhouse at times...No compassion just straight b.s in the name of twit

*ABS was a must! I lost the principles and heart behind it all.It was like I had to give money to the local mafia err I meant fellowship just to save face

*If you were sick for more than a week, the coordinator would start questioning your spirituality,your walk etc..where's the compassion,empathy?love was not found in some fellowships.Certainly the directives on how to treat people were coming from some where? !

*Witnesing became a dread in my last years.When you live in NZ you can only witness certain areas as Auckland is not that big.Big drive witness door to door or mall, need numbers for class, once again heart lost for it the message was not win people as much but more for upandcoming classes.Motive- numbers numbers!!!

*S.I.T and Prophecy often believers within fellowships were often judged by how well their manifestation were.As it based how much the word they read,S.i.t etc...Certainly no comfort or exhortation at most times as it displayed who was 'who' so to speak

*Way Materials- Was seen as must buy! buy! being in NZ often meant expected delays from getting magazines, tapes from US.It was also recorded who was buying what etc...I mean i enjoyed the singing ladies of the way, sing it dave and Kerrusso CDs. 

So much more and as said above by others I can only relate and add

Today i am glad I don't have to go through the motions and legalism b.s that runs through this cult 

Awesome post and video

On 04/11/2016 at 4:17 AM, skyrider said:

The announcement that you, Jean-Yves, will be twi's next president has reached GreaseSpot Café.

Knowing you from those early days in Quebec City, and your WOW year in Toronto.......I am not surprised that you rose up thru the ranks of leadership.  Clearly, in your former years, you had discipline, drive and heart-felt compassion for others.  When you were assigned to one of Toronto's WOW teams, I personally made sure that Rene and Sonia [ if I remember her name correctly] were in your WOW-family.....Rene needed extra attention being wheel-chair bound, and Sonia was so innocent, lovely and beautiful that I knew you'd be the right person to help them.  And, after your in-residence year......I was honored to perform your and Michele's wedding in 1988.

As twi continued to endure Chris Geer's call to "return back to the wierwille-indoctrination doctrine" with his arrogance assertions......twi went thru turbulent times, for sure.  Martindale, Don and Howard were thrown back on their heels and were reeling in a defensive posture for a number of years.  During this time, you and Michele were staffers at headquarters and saw much of the destruction of people's lives.  Yes, for 28 years......you have been intricately ensconced at the upper-tier levels of twi-hierarchy and groomed by "leadership" at hq and therefore, removed from understanding the emotional, physical and spiritual abuse that has been thrust upon the followers.

I am saddened, Jean-Yves, to see that you never connected the dots of this abuse and evil.  The scriptures give us wholesale examples of how the Pharisees burdened the people with guilt, shame, and fear to maintain their positions of power.  You see, Jean-Yves.......there are reasons why some 480 clergy and 3,000 corps grads no longer follow the doctrine or tenets of wierwillism.  The mog-doctrine was a fraud perpetrated by wierwille to enrich his power base and control over the youth.  Even back then, the older folk were abandoning him left and right......as even wierwille had noted that time and time again.  And, when wierwille schemed to offer the sunset corps an "opportunity" to build a cabin at their expense at Camp Gunnison [that twi would later inherit upon that person's death]......NOT ONE ELDERLY CORPS PERSON bought into it.  Notice how the elder corps were skeptical and suspicious of wierwille's shenanigans.....even though they were "corps trained?"

Clearly, the days of Rosalie's tenure as president has been little more than manage the perceptions......after all, twi really doesn't have a research department any more, do they?  And, the teachings are bland regurgitations that were scoffed at even by wierwille's pfal class renderings of religious veneer.  Why would a "spirit-filled believer with all power" NEED to read his/her sermon?  And then, is there really any full-sharing fellowship going on......or are people just going thru the motions?  I think, if you were really honest......you know the answer.  So....its not really a "Research, Teaching and Fellowship Ministry" is it?

Perhaps, you will slip into the big chair and be able to make BIG CHANGES during your tenure......to elevate Jesus Christ in his rightful and honored place as lord, savior, and mediator between God and man.  Perhaps......you will turn the ship 180 degrees and get back to true Christian values where believers are guided by holy spirit within.  Perhaps.....you will be able to clean the ranks of arrogant and abusive leaders that have sat in their seats of power at headquarters for 30+ years.  But if you are going to make any difference whatsoever......you will have to keep Rosalie and Donna from whispering in your ear on a weekly basis.

All the best to you, Jean-Yves.  Just know that "the power of that office" is not of any significance in the sight of God......UNLESS you use it for good, to unburden and heal the brokenhearted and those [still] in captivity.  [Luke 4:18]

 

.

 

This letter is pure gold!! Mr Linder be sure to frame this letter when you print it

Thanks in Advance

A BIG THANKS TO MR ALLEN,KRYS,SKYRIDER AND MANY MORE

Here's a link worth viewing in regards with past lawsuits against the way

http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/sut_suitsexrev.htm 

Acknowledgements Dr John Juedes

7 hours ago, Twinky said:

I can tell you're having fun rummaging through old threads, higherground.  Here's to thinking outside the PFAL book :)

Twinky,

Hope your enjoying your holiday!

These threads are a treasure collected over years and years of heart poured truth 

Greasepot Cafe is where it's at 

19 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Drat! Video blocked by HBO...

Ah donuts! This may provide just the link or at least the website Cheers Rocky 

https://documentaryaddict.com/films/going-clear-scientology-and-the-prison-of-belief

In the AFC Championship, the New England Patriots will host the Pittsburgh Steelers, while the Atlanta Falcons host the Green Bay Packers in the NFC Championship.

Ok everybody who have you got for Final?

My pick is New England Patriots vs Green Bay Packers

Winner: Green Bay Packers because who can stop their momentum after beating Dallas Cowboys?!

Just curious to see who follows football and who your favourite quarterback of all time?

DWBH

Sad to hear about that about the guys like Tbone said speedy recovery so they can get onto what they love doing.Dave Garibaldi wouldnt have been 'sing it dave 'would it?Loved his music as a kid.Travelling light in the light of the word was a favourite

Here's another hit from Journey, Don't Stop Believing