Hopefully "Captain Crunch" might provide additional info, but seriously, if such sorts of things were afoot, would you really expect STFI to air those things on the opening page of their website?
In my opinion...and note that I have not said my opinion is humble or should be anybody else's opinion or should have any sway over anybody else's life...
When one who has come out of twi can spend the better part of an hour reading through at least a dozen pages of a web site produced by an allegedly Christian ministry without ever once coming upon 'how to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty', one would be wise to remember twi and its heritage of an absent Jesus.
IOW...
Can't find Jesus in the website, why would you expect to find Jesus in the people?
OH man, I gotta know, seriously. dmiller, do you know - ex10, Crunchy, somebody -
What's this about Graeser's 'prophetic dreams'? and all of that? Is that for real? And do people in CES or STFI or whatever it is know that? I guess I mean, is that a fairly normal part of what they do or expect to have happening? Is it part of the 'personal prophecy' schtick? (I have no respect for that, so sorry if I come off sarcastic. Out of respect for posters here who like it I won't get off on that)
But the dream stuff is intriguing to me, which I won't go into here as a derail but if someone can expound a little on that it would be great. Thanks. In the meantime I have to hit the sack. If anything significant comes to me during the night, I'll be sure to post it here right away.
They just published a 41 page paper about the rest of the Board / Staff and have heard that 70% of that is dreams.....and fluffing (polishing) the facts.
sounds somewhat familiar. did geer help write this ?
If they're having troubles, and if their original intention was to serve God and help His people (and we can all recall that this is not a goal without natural obstacles, both those that the Devil throws in front of folks, as well as those that they throw in front of themselves, being PEOPLE), then let's ask God to help them figure it out, so that His people can still be helped.
I don't know all of them. And haven't seen any of them for years. But what I remember of those whom I did know, back in the day, is a heart to love God and serve His people.
Yet one more example of why I temper my relationship with any sort of organized religion and why I have nothing to do with any TWI offshoot. <_<
I wonder what those who were fired are going to call their offshoot of an offshoot ministry...
I didn't know any kind of ministry needed or payed "sales" positions. At least they're honest in calling Jeff a salesman. Explains his posts on here. I just wish he had told all of us when he did post that he was a salesman.
Of course, it would have been better if TWI had called us salespeople, too, instead of "ambassadors" or "WOW's" or "Disciples of the Way" - never thought of "disciple" as being synonymous with "sales". It's what we did though, isn't it?
David, I love ya, Man! But, you give religious people too much credit sometimes. People in religious leadership positions for the most part, imo, just aren't capable of living and practicing what they preach - especially the part about being honest. :( There's just too much money and adoration at stake.
I am not Jeff. He is the "sales guy." I called him that because I only know him as the guy you order stuff from. At least when I was buying stuff.
It is reported that Mark and Karen Ann (his "Prophetess") wife went to the ministry attorneys and found out that as President he can hire and fire anyone he wants.
It is also reported that Karen Ann is behind the scenes once again pulling the strings and directing the ministry and that this is part of why Mark should no longer be President.
When they started all this prophesy stuff, you would go to one of their events and if you wanted to you could "get a personal prophesy." I have had a few of these and 2 to 4 people would sit in a circle with you and say what came to mind about you. Now I believe this could be from God. But it would be really easy to use it to manipulate people.
Well, I too just recently became aware of this situation. I have heard the exact same things that Captain Crunch has posted. It really makes me sick, as it seems to be a rerun of stuff that is reminiscent of our former cult. :(
Hopefully, the mess will get straightened out, as many good people have already been hurt. The using and abusing of people has to stop. From what I understand, most of the "leadership" of CES is really upset about this turn of events. As they should be. We'll see what happens, I guess.
Can't say I'm not disappointed. I've spoken highly of CES in the past. As time and events wore on, and as I became less and less satisfied with their tapes, I spoke of them less and less, then not at all.
I'm not exactly sure of the quote, but someone once said, "All organizations have the seeds of death planted in them at their beginning", or something to that effect. You can be sure, whatever organization you belong to, there will come a day when that organization will no longer adhere to its 'mission statement'.
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notinKansasanymore
Well, then let's PRAY for them. If they're having troubles, and if their original intention was to serve God and help His people (and we can all recall that this is not a goal without natural obsta
Sushi
I'm not exactly sure of the quote, but someone once said, "All organizations have the seeds of death planted in them at their beginning", or something to that effect. You can be sure, whatever organiz
Whatsgoingon
I am very discouraged with my present involvement with STFI. If Mark G causes more issues with SFTI after he is removed from office next week we will probably cease our involvement with that organizat
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Tom Strange
oh well...
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dmiller
So when did this happen??
HERE'S THE LINK TO THE CES/STFI BOD.
Jeff quit?? Hmmmmmmmm (if it's true).
I didn't realize one person had the authority to fire others (if that's what happened).
John S. lives at Camp Vision there in Bloomington.
Wonder if he is next?
So where did you hear all this? I'm all ears for FACTS.
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TheInvisibleDan
I can't imagine any group dubbing itself "STFI" being bound toward a happy ending...
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dmiller
PS --- no I won't e-mail them. I'll get on the phone and call direct. Interestingly enough --
the latest issue of THE SOWER I received was all about Biblical Leadership --
the leading article written by Dan Gallagher.
I still want to know when this all happened, if it did, and why.
The ball is in your court Captain Crunch. Serve it up, and deliver.
If you have facts, let's hear them --- I'll listen if it's
something besides "It's commonly reported".
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TheInvisibleDan
DMiller,
Hopefully "Captain Crunch" might provide additional info, but seriously, if such sorts of things were afoot, would you really expect STFI to air those things on the opening page of their website?
Danny
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socks
Sorry. Ahem...Well, anyway.
Oh, it's not worth it, never mind.
Yes it is. "STFI"'s bound to ...
Nope, can't write it.
Cap'n Crunch, set your sails for the land of milk 'n' honey and spoon it up for us!
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TheInvisibleDan
I mean, can we really imagine clicking on the STFI link to be met with:
THIS WEBPAGE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
We have recently encountered false prophets and dreamers in our midst.
Please excuse the inconvenience, while we root them out.
You're impotent to us.
God Bless You.
Standing erect with you,
The new STFI STAFF
STFI. Ugh. Sounds like a brand name to a spamming pharmacutical.
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CoolWaters
In my opinion...and note that I have not said my opinion is humble or should be anybody else's opinion or should have any sway over anybody else's life...
When one who has come out of twi can spend the better part of an hour reading through at least a dozen pages of a web site produced by an allegedly Christian ministry without ever once coming upon 'how to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty', one would be wise to remember twi and its heritage of an absent Jesus.
IOW...
Can't find Jesus in the website, why would you expect to find Jesus in the people?
SOSDD.
Of course it's gonna go down the Way of the Way.
IMO.
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dmiller
Hey there Dan. In answer to your question -- Yes I would.
Now that they have the new web-site with the *all about them* link,
I would think that it should be updated to current news in a timely fashion.
JAL (from what I understand with my limited perspective), was confronted by the ENTIRE BOD,
when he did something they didn't feel was right several years ago.
Nuff of that -- I only bring that up because It wasn't a one man decision then,
like these latest allegations seem to be.
And yes -- if CES is gonna be true to what they have seemed to be in the past --
I would expect nothing less.
I have no use for another control-oriented org.
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socks
OH man, I gotta know, seriously. dmiller, do you know - ex10, Crunchy, somebody -
What's this about Graeser's 'prophetic dreams'? and all of that? Is that for real? And do people in CES or STFI or whatever it is know that? I guess I mean, is that a fairly normal part of what they do or expect to have happening? Is it part of the 'personal prophecy' schtick? (I have no respect for that, so sorry if I come off sarcastic. Out of respect for posters here who like it I won't get off on that)
But the dream stuff is intriguing to me, which I won't go into here as a derail but if someone can expound a little on that it would be great. Thanks. In the meantime I have to hit the sack. If anything significant comes to me during the night, I'll be sure to post it here right away.
(Sorry, I'm hopeless as you can see)
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excathedra
is that pronounced stiffy ?
sounds somewhat familiar. did geer help write this ?Link to comment
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pawtucket
In case anyone is wondering, Captain Crunch IS a credible source.
This information, in my opinion, exposes a serious problem.
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Jim
Thankfully, not for most of *us*. Been there, done that.
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TheEvan
LOL!
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notinKansasanymore
Well, then let's PRAY for them.
If they're having troubles, and if their original intention was to serve God and help His people (and we can all recall that this is not a goal without natural obstacles, both those that the Devil throws in front of folks, as well as those that they throw in front of themselves, being PEOPLE), then let's ask God to help them figure it out, so that His people can still be helped.
I don't know all of them. And haven't seen any of them for years. But what I remember of those whom I did know, back in the day, is a heart to love God and serve His people.
I hope that they end up okay.
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polar bear
I think it's just another religion.
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Belle
Yet one more example of why I temper my relationship with any sort of organized religion and why I have nothing to do with any TWI offshoot. <_<
I wonder what those who were fired are going to call their offshoot of an offshoot ministry...
I didn't know any kind of ministry needed or payed "sales" positions. At least they're honest in calling Jeff a salesman. Explains his posts on here. I just wish he had told all of us when he did post that he was a salesman.
Of course, it would have been better if TWI had called us salespeople, too, instead of "ambassadors" or "WOW's" or "Disciples of the Way" - never thought of "disciple" as being synonymous with "sales".
It's what we did though, isn't it?
David, I love ya, Man! But, you give religious people too much credit sometimes.
People in religious leadership positions for the most part, imo, just aren't capable of living and practicing what they preach - especially the part about being honest. :( There's just too much money and adoration at stake.
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Belle
Thanks and Welcome, Cap'n! Breakfast is on me this morning. :)
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WhiteDove
I
That would be THE NEW and Improved STFI
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Captain Crunch
I am not Jeff. He is the "sales guy." I called him that because I only know him as the guy you order stuff from. At least when I was buying stuff.
It is reported that Mark and Karen Ann (his "Prophetess") wife went to the ministry attorneys and found out that as President he can hire and fire anyone he wants.
It is also reported that Karen Ann is behind the scenes once again pulling the strings and directing the ministry and that this is part of why Mark should no longer be President.
When they started all this prophesy stuff, you would go to one of their events and if you wanted to you could "get a personal prophesy." I have had a few of these and 2 to 4 people would sit in a circle with you and say what came to mind about you. Now I believe this could be from God. But it would be really easy to use it to manipulate people.
Gotta go.
Capt.
PS - Oh, I forgot, this started in late October.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I crossed paths with these "dreamers" in the late 90's...My BS meter was redlining.
First personal prophesies...now it's dreams!
Good gravy, maybe Mark G's wife is into S&M again..."whip me, beat me, make me have bad dreams"
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ex10
Well, I too just recently became aware of this situation. I have heard the exact same things that Captain Crunch has posted. It really makes me sick, as it seems to be a rerun of stuff that is reminiscent of our former cult. :(
Hopefully, the mess will get straightened out, as many good people have already been hurt. The using and abusing of people has to stop. From what I understand, most of the "leadership" of CES is really upset about this turn of events. As they should be. We'll see what happens, I guess.
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Raf
Can't say I'm not disappointed. I've spoken highly of CES in the past. As time and events wore on, and as I became less and less satisfied with their tapes, I spoke of them less and less, then not at all.
Sigh.
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Sushi
I'm not exactly sure of the quote, but someone once said, "All organizations have the seeds of death planted in them at their beginning", or something to that effect. You can be sure, whatever organization you belong to, there will come a day when that organization will no longer adhere to its 'mission statement'.
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