I hope this is straightened out. It would be a huge mistake to even CONSIDER firing someone like John Schoenheit. They have got to work all this out. There are still books of theirs I need to buy and if there is a split, I'm not sure what would happen to their books.
NIKA, you have a beautiful, gracious heart. These people need prayer, indeed. They're still my brothers and sisters, and though I've never had 10 seconds worth of involvement with CES or their spin-off STFI, I defend their right to pursue God however they see fit. Doesn't mean I agree with the path they've chosen, but it's their choice.
I must say, though, that I've seen this "personal prophecy" stuff wreak havoc on another ministry, many years ago, before I ever heard of twi. The result...a lot of good people who had a genuine, godly, loving minsitry ended up getting ripped apart. PEOPLE ARE NOT 100% RELIABLE CONDUITS FOR MESSAGES FROM GOD TO OTHER PEOPLE. PERIOD. IMO, functioning as if they are puts you on very shaky ground. It's foolish, it can be dangerous, and it ends up being hurtful. At least that was my experience. This looks the same to me.
If I were JAL and JS, I'd leave STFI to Mark and Karen Ann and the other couple and get away from all this heavy emphasis on prophecies and dreams. Of course, I'm not JAL and JS, but I hope they'll have the wisdom to do that. Then, if the other four want to play with that stuff, it's on their own heads.
Thus saith LZ (who doesn't claim to be a prophetess--only to have pretty good sense).
I don't think that Spirit & Truth is gonna fall apart. After all, conflict can be a very good thing if it is handled in a godly way. I am hoping that our Partners will stick with us and see this through to a healthy and open finish. The Board are really good folks! I know this to be true becuase I have worked for them and with them for a long time.
Also, the bookstore, seminars, tapes, events, and all that will go on!
I am praying that these folks, some of whom have know each other for 30 years, will once again see eye to eye.
I am justing staying tuned for the Jan 15 elections. I am not sure if things will change at the top but I pray it does.
I love all these cool new icons...back in the day we did not have these....
Well, off to a Holiday Party at Dan Gallagher's house!
I can't imagine any group dubbing itself "STFI" being bound toward a happy ending...
Yes, WAY too funny.
And yes, I am really curious as to what this "dreams" thing is about.
I had a dream last night that I don't think my wife would appreciate, and so, I don't think that God sent that one. But, it was a really good dream! Maybe it came from STFI?
But, all foolish jesting aside (doesn't the Scripture tell us to put it away anyway?), I hope that things work out too Jeff. Those ministry splits can cause so much hurt and devastation, as we all know. I hope that they can nip it in the bud before it gets any uglier. And, that quote that came from somebody here about how alkl organizations have the seeds of failure in them or whatever. That is so true. Even the guys trained by the Master Jesus Christ himself ended up blowing it with the First Century church. Interesting...
Here is an example of the school of the prophets that Karen Anne has forged. The attached file is a scan of the prophesies given to Elizabeth Lynn as an indictment. John Lynn was bewitched to believe these lies and that ended in divorce. Woe unto you false prophets. God hates divorce!
Regards,
Capt.
PS - Remember it was Karen Anne that wanted Elizabeth to marry John Lynn in the first place. Where was her prophetic ability then?
That letter is very disturbing and crazy. I tried CES when I first left TWI. I could only make it through about 3 fellowships and saw weirdness. I remembered hearing about personal prophecy. It seems to be to be something that was mystical about CES. It definitely seems to be a way to railroad someone and then call it godly. That is shameful.
Thanks Captain Crunch. This document is the first I've seen of how the "Prophetic Council" issues statements. From what I know, and putting two and two together, my advice to anyone involved with the group is to get away from them and let them work their problems out for themselves. Those of you like yourself, Jeff and others who might have a responsibility and a possibility of having an effect on the outcome, do as you think right. In general though I'd repeat - people should get away from these people.
It's not a question to me if they're nice or have helped people in the past, etc. These kinds of things don't just spring up in a day obviously, they develop over time. Whatever's under the blankets there, it's not good and I'd hate to wake up and see it in the dark, myself.
I'm sure some reading this will be inclined to feel well, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. And it is, and I am. You guys close to CES should clear the decks and breathe some fresh air for awhile.
Now, that's just creepy. Whoever is bringing forth these so-called "prophecies" certainly seeem/seems to be obsessing about demons and and enamored with sc-ifi-type imagery.
Good Lord, back in my naive youth, when I was with a group that was into "personal prophecy," as goofy as it was, it never involved crap like this. There was a lot of edification and some specific guidance, like "It's time to leave town. Go north." That was damaging enough, but I have no words for this stuff.
I agree heartily with Socks. Step away from the splinter group. I can't even begin to guess what scriptural basis the leaders of this group think they have for this stuff, but I think it's nuts.
Interesting--they have different methods than the 'spiritual suspiscion'(imagination run amok) of TWI of the nineties, but the end seems to be about the same--declare others possesed and try to run (or ruin) their lives.
I think once you fall for the 'leaders should be obeyed' business, you can just expect trouble...
Took awhile to scan this. It is 16 pages with a cover letter from Elizabeth Lynn, her letter to believers that didn't know what was going on with their divorce, prefaces her letter to John after the separation.
It is not easy to read but shows how bewitched John was to not stand with his wife. Don't get me wrong. John really has a good heart. He just trusted the wrong people. I think the root of this giving over one's will to a prophet was Momentus -- Brainwashing.
By the way, John has never been on the payroll. He has always lived "by the can" (personal donations to him).
I am deeply saddened by the turn of events with CES/STFI, but not very surprised. I am surprised to hear that Jeff and Matt have left. I know both of these guys and know that they have been very loyal to the group over the years. I can only imagine the hurt they have felt during this time and although many of Jeff's previous posts have been mainly promos for CES, I believe he has a heart to reach out to people and offer help as best he can.
The people I know best from CES are the Schoenheits. I worked with John a couple of years in Charlotte. (Jeff, you'll probably remember who I am.) He is a very trusting soul and I'm torn between hoping he doesn't get kicked to the curb to hoping he gets away from the egotistical grip the Graesers have on that group. It would be pretty interesting to see how he would do without the rules of a group to govern him and his biblical research.
I left the group 3 years ago when I moved from NC, and wouldn't go back for any amount of money, but I did meet some wonderful people and have some great experiences. My prayers go out to those who invested heavily in time and money with the group and that they can move on in bigger and better directions.
So have Paw, Raf, WordWolf, Rascal, Shellon, BowTwi, the Richesons, RadarOReilly, HCW, Paul & Fern Allen, ex10, LindaZ and many, many, many others...
And not ONE of them has asked for money or sold merchandise in order to profit from that help. Do you honestly pray a tenth as earnestly for them?
Belle et al,
Let me also set a few things straight.
I'm pretty much just a lurker here and have only posted a few times, but some of the comments prompted me to chime in in this discussion. I am a former employee of CES/STF (notice I didn't use "STFI" - many of us have avoided using STFI because of the often juvenile responses to it. Bummer - call me naive, but I really hoped that most decent human beings would be above such childishness). I resigned for personal reasons about a year ago, and before any of you assume otherwise: it was fully my decision and was NOT coerced, and I have been on good terms with the Board and others and have participated in several events since.
That being said - I take issue to your last comment Belle, particularly your (and others in this string and in the past) insinuation that people are asking for money and/or selling merchandise in order to personally profit from it. Last time I checked, CES/STF is a 401c3 NON PROFIT organization, and though us staffers (including Mark Graeser & John Schoenheit) were paid employees, NONE of us were getting rich with other people's money. The money that was and is still sent to that little office in Indianapolis was (and still is) funneled right back into the publications, conferences, etc. It is well known that a job at CES/STF is NOT a path to monetary riches!! I'll also note that the members of the BOD are NOT paid - they are volunteers, with the exception of Mark Graeser and John Schoenheit, who are founders and are paid staff members.
Personally, I praise God for ANYONE who works as Christ's ambassador, regardless of how they choose to do it. But does that mean that it's wrong to pray for Billy Graham's ministry, CES/STF, CFF, or the church on the corner because they ask for money or are in the public spotlight? In the end, we need to pray for EVERYONE who tirelessly and selflessly does great things for God & God's people, regardless of the scale, and regardless of whether they build houses for a living or help run a Christian ministry for a living.
Also, in regard to the post about the lack of Jesus Christ on the STF website: I do not have a TWI background and was therefore not exposed to the "absent Christ" teaching. However, I can assure you that everyone I know who is affiliated with STF (including the BOD and home fellowship leaders), loves and worships the LIVING Christ. Yes, developing a relationship with the Lord is tough for many ex-Wayfers, but many are breaking out of the old mold and are growing closer to Him every day. I personally would have nothing to do with a church/ministry that does not recognize and encourage a daily, personal walk with Jesus Christ. Now, is that manifested in the lives of those who are affiliated with CES/STF? Yes and no, depending on the individual....which is no different that what you would find in the "mainstream" church down the street. Trust me, I know - I go to one!
Finally, I will readily acknowledge that CES/STF (like the Way, from what I understand) has not placed a large emphasis on helping to feed the poor, care for the less privileged, etc. However, CES/STF was founded as a teaching ministry and only recently began to function as more of a full "church." I agree that we have a lot to learn about what it means to be a church, and that proper doctrinal teaching is only a piece of that pie. I am personally convicted that I need to do more in my community - though we need to teach the truth of God's Word, we also need to reach out and LOVE others as Christ did.
I will not comment specifically about the current situation in the ministry, though I am personally involved. If you want to know what I have to say, contact me. If you care and have a personal investment in CES/STF: pray, seek the truth, and compare what you hear from others to God's Word.
Non-profit status only means that there is no profit ONLY because the profit is being funneled back into the organization...not because no profit was made.
The requirement for non-profits concerning how much money is spent on actual services is 5% (last I knew, anyways)...the rest can be used towards 'administrative' costs (salaries, travel costs, buildings/building maintenance/rent/lease/etc, office supplies/equipment/furniture/plants etc, clothing, cosmetics, hair styling, medical expenses, etc).
The typical non-profit organization in America has bragging rights if 30% or more of their 'donations' are spent on actual services.
I'm not a fan of non-profit organizations.
Neither am I a fan of allegedly Christian 'teaching' organizations that do not include several 'courses' on how to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty.
Been there, done that, and tweren't nothing to do with nothing Christian.
I advise the moderator to remove or at least review the 2 documents posted in this thread. I'm not at all comfortable with the graphic and personal details presented, apparently without the permission of all the people involved.
A quick read of the site, more of the same kind of stuff that seems to be coming down the ex-Wayfer pike. Won't these guys ever wake up?
The last thing I'd want is some crap-shoot "Profit" of some church getting their hands on my brain and trying to get 'er right. This stuff turns my stomach, personally. Reading what I have on this thread so far alone makes me feel dirty, and I'm not saying I was all that clean coming on, y'know? But geez...
I don't pray for everyone who proposes that they're an Ambassador for Christ, Bill D. The world is full of misguided nuts who use the name of Jesus Christ in many different ways.
Certainly not anyone who practices the dream/prophecy "doctrine" I'm reading about here. Pray that they get their head out of their butt before it gets so big they blow up, yes. But it's hard to hear from that position, removal first is usually desirable.
As far as money goes, I believe you and any report that says they're not getting rich off this kind of stuff. I can't believe anyone would, frankly. It's just too weird for me and trust me - I know weird.
Hopefully all of this exchange opens up what's going on in CES/STFI/WhaverItIs and people can judge more clearly for themselves based on information. Buyer beware is the order of the day. As always, it's a free country and as long as you don't break the law people are free to do pretty much what they like.
My intention is that the Board that is voting in January return to sanity and oust the ones that have misdirected CES/STF. No organization is perfect, but there are certain forms of government in an organization that are better than others. The theocracy of prophecy/dreams that has developed is absurd. I am only aware of the depth of hurt that has been caused by reading Elizabeth Lynn's letters and the prophesies given her. (see files attached in posts above.) But she is probably not the first, nor the last.
Sushi included this quote: "All organizations have the seeds of death planted in them at their beginning"
I believe each of us contain those seeds. The only thing we can do is to repent when we fall and get back at it again. Love thy neighbor as thyself. When we do that we are doing okay. Oh, by the way, manipulation is not love, no matter what Tocchini, Pinci or Pezzi say.
Cool Waters - I really like the the idea of 'courses' on how to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty.
Jim - I have permission from Elizabeth Lynn to give anyone I want to the items I have posted. Anyone think we should hide this c#@p?
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notinKansasanymore
Well, then let's PRAY for them. If they're having troubles, and if their original intention was to serve God and help His people (and we can all recall that this is not a goal without natural obsta
Sushi
I'm not exactly sure of the quote, but someone once said, "All organizations have the seeds of death planted in them at their beginning", or something to that effect. You can be sure, whatever organiz
Whatsgoingon
I am very discouraged with my present involvement with STFI. If Mark G causes more issues with SFTI after he is removed from office next week we will probably cease our involvement with that organizat
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Eagle
I hope this is straightened out. It would be a huge mistake to even CONSIDER firing someone like John Schoenheit. They have got to work all this out. There are still books of theirs I need to buy and if there is a split, I'm not sure what would happen to their books.
Eagle
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ex10
Jeff,
Thanks for posting. I imagine is it pretty risky for you. Your insight is much appreciated, since "you were there."
Hope you and yours are well, and you enjoy the holidaze in spite of it all. :wub:
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dmiller
Jeff -- thanks for the info.
And Captain Crunch --- thank you too. :)
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Linda Z
NIKA, you have a beautiful, gracious heart. These people need prayer, indeed. They're still my brothers and sisters, and though I've never had 10 seconds worth of involvement with CES or their spin-off STFI, I defend their right to pursue God however they see fit. Doesn't mean I agree with the path they've chosen, but it's their choice.
I must say, though, that I've seen this "personal prophecy" stuff wreak havoc on another ministry, many years ago, before I ever heard of twi. The result...a lot of good people who had a genuine, godly, loving minsitry ended up getting ripped apart. PEOPLE ARE NOT 100% RELIABLE CONDUITS FOR MESSAGES FROM GOD TO OTHER PEOPLE. PERIOD. IMO, functioning as if they are puts you on very shaky ground. It's foolish, it can be dangerous, and it ends up being hurtful. At least that was my experience. This looks the same to me.
If I were JAL and JS, I'd leave STFI to Mark and Karen Ann and the other couple and get away from all this heavy emphasis on prophecies and dreams. Of course, I'm not JAL and JS, but I hope they'll have the wisdom to do that. Then, if the other four want to play with that stuff, it's on their own heads.
Thus saith LZ (who doesn't claim to be a prophetess--only to have pretty good sense).
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Jeff USAF RET
You are welcome!
I don't think that Spirit & Truth is gonna fall apart. After all, conflict can be a very good thing if it is handled in a godly way. I am hoping that our Partners will stick with us and see this through to a healthy and open finish. The Board are really good folks! I know this to be true becuase I have worked for them and with them for a long time.
Also, the bookstore, seminars, tapes, events, and all that will go on!
I am praying that these folks, some of whom have know each other for 30 years, will once again see eye to eye.
I am justing staying tuned for the Jan 15 elections. I am not sure if things will change at the top but I pray it does.
I love all these cool new icons...back in the day we did not have these....
Well, off to a Holiday Party at Dan Gallagher's house!
Ya'll have a good night!
Jeff
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ex10
Hi again, Jeff. I just sent you a private message. So, uh, check your privates.
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J0nny Ling0
Yes, WAY too funny.
And yes, I am really curious as to what this "dreams" thing is about.
I had a dream last night that I don't think my wife would appreciate, and so, I don't think that God sent that one. But, it was a really good dream! Maybe it came from STFI?
But, all foolish jesting aside (doesn't the Scripture tell us to put it away anyway?), I hope that things work out too Jeff. Those ministry splits can cause so much hurt and devastation, as we all know. I hope that they can nip it in the bud before it gets any uglier. And, that quote that came from somebody here about how alkl organizations have the seeds of failure in them or whatever. That is so true. Even the guys trained by the Master Jesus Christ himself ended up blowing it with the First Century church. Interesting...
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dmiller
Socks (and Jonny) -- This is the FIRST I've heard of this myself.
Never knew it was being *promoted* or even talked about. :blink:
What an eye-opener.
And eye-opener's aren't conducive to dreaming, eh??
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TOMMYZ
Even though I've lost touch, I'll keep them in my prayers. They helped a lot of God's people over the years.
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Belle
So have Paw, Raf, WordWolf, Rascal, Shellon, BowTwi, the Richesons, RadarOReilly, HCW, Paul & Fern Allen, ex10, LindaZ and many, many, many others...
And not ONE of them has asked for money or sold merchandise in order to profit from that help.
Do you honestly pray a tenth as earnestly for them? 
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Captain Crunch
Here is an example of the school of the prophets that Karen Anne has forged. The attached file is a scan of the prophesies given to Elizabeth Lynn as an indictment. John Lynn was bewitched to believe these lies and that ended in divorce. Woe unto you false prophets. God hates divorce!
Regards,
Capt.
PS - Remember it was Karen Anne that wanted Elizabeth to marry John Lynn in the first place. Where was her prophetic ability then?
prophesies_about_elynn_03.pdf
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Nottawayfer
That letter is very disturbing and crazy. I tried CES when I first left TWI. I could only make it through about 3 fellowships and saw weirdness. I remembered hearing about personal prophecy. It seems to be to be something that was mystical about CES. It definitely seems to be a way to railroad someone and then call it godly. That is shameful.
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A la prochaine
CC,
Are these for real????
People actually make decisions about their own personal lives according to other people's visions/dreams/prophecies???
Sounds like these people having these very vivid dreams have watched one too many Stephen King movies.
sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
get a grip people!!!
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socks
Thanks Captain Crunch. This document is the first I've seen of how the "Prophetic Council" issues statements. From what I know, and putting two and two together, my advice to anyone involved with the group is to get away from them and let them work their problems out for themselves. Those of you like yourself, Jeff and others who might have a responsibility and a possibility of having an effect on the outcome, do as you think right. In general though I'd repeat - people should get away from these people.
It's not a question to me if they're nice or have helped people in the past, etc. These kinds of things don't just spring up in a day obviously, they develop over time. Whatever's under the blankets there, it's not good and I'd hate to wake up and see it in the dark, myself.
I'm sure some reading this will be inclined to feel well, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. And it is, and I am. You guys close to CES should clear the decks and breathe some fresh air for awhile.
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CoolWaters
From that file you posted, CC, it seems that more than one has flown over that cuckoo's nest...
These people need psychiatric care as much, if not more, than prayer.
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Linda Z
Now, that's just creepy. Whoever is bringing forth these so-called "prophecies" certainly seeem/seems to be obsessing about demons and and enamored with sc-ifi-type imagery.
Good Lord, back in my naive youth, when I was with a group that was into "personal prophecy," as goofy as it was, it never involved crap like this. There was a lot of edification and some specific guidance, like "It's time to leave town. Go north." That was damaging enough, but I have no words for this stuff.
I agree heartily with Socks. Step away from the splinter group. I can't even begin to guess what scriptural basis the leaders of this group think they have for this stuff, but I think it's nuts.
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Bramble
This has been going on for years...how sickening.
Interesting--they have different methods than the 'spiritual suspiscion'(imagination run amok) of TWI of the nineties, but the end seems to be about the same--declare others possesed and try to run (or ruin) their lives.
I think once you fall for the 'leaders should be obeyed' business, you can just expect trouble...
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Captain Crunch
Took awhile to scan this. It is 16 pages with a cover letter from Elizabeth Lynn, her letter to believers that didn't know what was going on with their divorce, prefaces her letter to John after the separation.
It is not easy to read but shows how bewitched John was to not stand with his wife. Don't get me wrong. John really has a good heart. He just trusted the wrong people. I think the root of this giving over one's will to a prophet was Momentus -- Brainwashing.
By the way, John has never been on the payroll. He has always lived "by the can" (personal donations to him).
Regards,
Capt.
elynn_letter_05_06.pdf
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batcave
I am deeply saddened by the turn of events with CES/STFI, but not very surprised. I am surprised to hear that Jeff and Matt have left. I know both of these guys and know that they have been very loyal to the group over the years. I can only imagine the hurt they have felt during this time and although many of Jeff's previous posts have been mainly promos for CES, I believe he has a heart to reach out to people and offer help as best he can.
The people I know best from CES are the Schoenheits. I worked with John a couple of years in Charlotte. (Jeff, you'll probably remember who I am.) He is a very trusting soul and I'm torn between hoping he doesn't get kicked to the curb to hoping he gets away from the egotistical grip the Graesers have on that group. It would be pretty interesting to see how he would do without the rules of a group to govern him and his biblical research.
I left the group 3 years ago when I moved from NC, and wouldn't go back for any amount of money, but I did meet some wonderful people and have some great experiences. My prayers go out to those who invested heavily in time and money with the group and that they can move on in bigger and better directions.
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Billy D
Belle et al,
Let me also set a few things straight.
I'm pretty much just a lurker here and have only posted a few times, but some of the comments prompted me to chime in in this discussion. I am a former employee of CES/STF (notice I didn't use "STFI" - many of us have avoided using STFI because of the often juvenile responses to it. Bummer - call me naive, but I really hoped that most decent human beings would be above such childishness). I resigned for personal reasons about a year ago, and before any of you assume otherwise: it was fully my decision and was NOT coerced, and I have been on good terms with the Board and others and have participated in several events since.
That being said - I take issue to your last comment Belle, particularly your (and others in this string and in the past) insinuation that people are asking for money and/or selling merchandise in order to personally profit from it. Last time I checked, CES/STF is a 401c3 NON PROFIT organization, and though us staffers (including Mark Graeser & John Schoenheit) were paid employees, NONE of us were getting rich with other people's money. The money that was and is still sent to that little office in Indianapolis was (and still is) funneled right back into the publications, conferences, etc. It is well known that a job at CES/STF is NOT a path to monetary riches!! I'll also note that the members of the BOD are NOT paid - they are volunteers, with the exception of Mark Graeser and John Schoenheit, who are founders and are paid staff members.
Personally, I praise God for ANYONE who works as Christ's ambassador, regardless of how they choose to do it. But does that mean that it's wrong to pray for Billy Graham's ministry, CES/STF, CFF, or the church on the corner because they ask for money or are in the public spotlight? In the end, we need to pray for EVERYONE who tirelessly and selflessly does great things for God & God's people, regardless of the scale, and regardless of whether they build houses for a living or help run a Christian ministry for a living.
Also, in regard to the post about the lack of Jesus Christ on the STF website: I do not have a TWI background and was therefore not exposed to the "absent Christ" teaching. However, I can assure you that everyone I know who is affiliated with STF (including the BOD and home fellowship leaders), loves and worships the LIVING Christ. Yes, developing a relationship with the Lord is tough for many ex-Wayfers, but many are breaking out of the old mold and are growing closer to Him every day. I personally would have nothing to do with a church/ministry that does not recognize and encourage a daily, personal walk with Jesus Christ. Now, is that manifested in the lives of those who are affiliated with CES/STF? Yes and no, depending on the individual....which is no different that what you would find in the "mainstream" church down the street. Trust me, I know - I go to one!
Finally, I will readily acknowledge that CES/STF (like the Way, from what I understand) has not placed a large emphasis on helping to feed the poor, care for the less privileged, etc. However, CES/STF was founded as a teaching ministry and only recently began to function as more of a full "church." I agree that we have a lot to learn about what it means to be a church, and that proper doctrinal teaching is only a piece of that pie. I am personally convicted that I need to do more in my community - though we need to teach the truth of God's Word, we also need to reach out and LOVE others as Christ did.
I will not comment specifically about the current situation in the ministry, though I am personally involved. If you want to know what I have to say, contact me. If you care and have a personal investment in CES/STF: pray, seek the truth, and compare what you hear from others to God's Word.
Thanks, and God bless!
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CoolWaters
Non-profit status only means that there is no profit ONLY because the profit is being funneled back into the organization...not because no profit was made.
The requirement for non-profits concerning how much money is spent on actual services is 5% (last I knew, anyways)...the rest can be used towards 'administrative' costs (salaries, travel costs, buildings/building maintenance/rent/lease/etc, office supplies/equipment/furniture/plants etc, clothing, cosmetics, hair styling, medical expenses, etc).
The typical non-profit organization in America has bragging rights if 30% or more of their 'donations' are spent on actual services.
I'm not a fan of non-profit organizations.
Neither am I a fan of allegedly Christian 'teaching' organizations that do not include several 'courses' on how to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty.
Been there, done that, and tweren't nothing to do with nothing Christian.
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Jim
I advise the moderator to remove or at least review the 2 documents posted in this thread. I'm not at all comfortable with the graphic and personal details presented, apparently without the permission of all the people involved.
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socks
That document references Enneagram - read all about it HERE if you haven't heard of it - I hadn't, but I'm way to busy adjusting my Lucky Moon watch. If you're immediately impressed by the homepage, the Shopping Cart is second down on the left navigation, for easy access.
A quick read of the site, more of the same kind of stuff that seems to be coming down the ex-Wayfer pike. Won't these guys ever wake up?
The last thing I'd want is some crap-shoot "Profit" of some church getting their hands on my brain and trying to get 'er right. This stuff turns my stomach, personally. Reading what I have on this thread so far alone makes me feel dirty, and I'm not saying I was all that clean coming on, y'know? But geez...
I don't pray for everyone who proposes that they're an Ambassador for Christ, Bill D. The world is full of misguided nuts who use the name of Jesus Christ in many different ways.
Certainly not anyone who practices the dream/prophecy "doctrine" I'm reading about here. Pray that they get their head out of their butt before it gets so big they blow up, yes. But it's hard to hear from that position, removal first is usually desirable.
As far as money goes, I believe you and any report that says they're not getting rich off this kind of stuff. I can't believe anyone would, frankly. It's just too weird for me and trust me - I know weird.
Hopefully all of this exchange opens up what's going on in CES/STFI/WhaverItIs and people can judge more clearly for themselves based on information. Buyer beware is the order of the day. As always, it's a free country and as long as you don't break the law people are free to do pretty much what they like.
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Captain Crunch
My intention is that the Board that is voting in January return to sanity and oust the ones that have misdirected CES/STF. No organization is perfect, but there are certain forms of government in an organization that are better than others. The theocracy of prophecy/dreams that has developed is absurd. I am only aware of the depth of hurt that has been caused by reading Elizabeth Lynn's letters and the prophesies given her. (see files attached in posts above.) But she is probably not the first, nor the last.
Sushi included this quote: "All organizations have the seeds of death planted in them at their beginning"
I believe each of us contain those seeds. The only thing we can do is to repent when we fall and get back at it again. Love thy neighbor as thyself. When we do that we are doing okay. Oh, by the way, manipulation is not love, no matter what Tocchini, Pinci or Pezzi say.
Cool Waters - I really like the the idea of 'courses' on how to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty.
Jim - I have permission from Elizabeth Lynn to give anyone I want to the items I have posted. Anyone think we should hide this c#@p?
Regards,
Capt.
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