CES is in a Mess...

[dmiller]

Captain Crunch -- thanks for those documents.

Things are starting to make sense to me in all this mess.

[GarthP2000]

((shakes my head))

Christ-on-a-crutch! What a hell hole! To be under that kind of tightly controlling situation would be unbearable to any sane person!

This is a perfect example of how people would put up with crap that they wouldn't even think about putting up with in any normal situation, ... and all because somebody plays the 'Spiritual Authority' card on them. Who claims that they speak for God, or who can quote Bible verses as validation for what they do.

Man, and to think that about 10-11 years ago, I gave some serious thought of getting involved with these fools.

Billy D says "Personally, I praise God for ANYONE who works as Christ's ambassador, regardless of how they choose to do it." Really? So that they work as Christ's ambassadors justifies and sanctifies the abusive crap that they have been putting Elizabeth through? Hey, as long as they are doing it for God, right? ... Chief, it is rationale like that that was but one thing that helped me get rid of religion *totally*. Thank you for reminding me of that.

Looks like CES is going to go through its own version of 'the Big Split' soon enough. <_<

[dmiller]

<<<------------- Reads Garth's post and

You lost me after the word *crutch*.

(Will listen to your comments on the rest of the post from Billy D.,

should you be so inclined.) :)

Edited December 17, 2006 by dmiller

[TheInvisibleDan]

Please forbear my earlier "jesting", which indeed appears all the more trite by comparison to a situation far worst than even I could have imagined.

Man, those letters...ooo-eee-oooo.

Danny

[Bluzeman]

Christ-on-a-crutch!

Garth, do you REALLY have to use phrases like that? And before you or anyone else says it, yes, I am fully aware that this is not a Christian board. But some of us who participate here ARE Christians, and find expressions like that offensive. So would you please try to have a little respect for those who have different belief's than you do?

Rick

[excathedra]

in '78 when karen ann was my twig leader in the corps, we used to call her endora

[fellowshipper]

Excie I love you Corps sister! We would always say what was on our minds didn't we? That's Corps.

[cman]

Garth,

Who claims that they speak for God

I would add regarding how and what we are to do and think.

If a person who is no less or more then me would just lay it on the table.

Then I can decide for myself what I need to do.

And it might be something totally different then what is said.

Someone else's words could inspire other thoughts and directions.

And no one speaks for God imo.

He can do that himself very well.

Sure we speak the word.

But as God inspires.

But that don't mean that it's instruction.

Far from it, to enlighten the eyes is his purpose.

Specific instruction will come from within yourself.

Wether from the spirit or just common sense which is the spirit too.

Some crazy stuff going on there, looks like.

Going to extremes.

Edited December 17, 2006 by cman

[Ductape]

Our prayers worked so well to bring TWI's BOT back to where they never really were. Sure it will work this time! But hey, this time "they" have Jesus, just ignore the rotten fruit spoken by the pool of the prophetless!

[rhino]

Our prayers worked so well to bring TWI's BOT back to where they never really were.

Heh... How can anyone stick around with a prophetess spewing stuff like that? Perhaps more reasonable heads are just waiting to properly remove this type of insanity from a place of power,

I'm thinking instead of stiffy , STFI, they should change to Spirit & Truth Fellowship United ... since STFU seems to be what their MOG is saying to the leaders that disagree. I guess this goes in the category of "power corrupts". It is nice this is posted in an open forum where these things can be exposed to the light of day. It should be time for the cockaroaches to start scurrying.

[washingtonweather]

Yikes-- I read your documents Capt Crunch....all I can say is how sad. I wouldn't stick up for people who repeadedtly participate in these things.

like I tell my kids:

If it quacks like a duck,

If it has feathers like a duck,

And if it swims like a duck,

And walks like a duck

GUESS WHAT -----Its a DUCK

And as far as I know, the bible still says, you shall know them by their fruit!

[pond]

Elizabeth said John Lynn is "mousy".

sounds like a divorcing couple to me alright.

here is the thing .. for me, when they began the personal prophecy stuff i stop going to the fellowship.

I really do not want to get involved in what that is or isnt.

YET

if God speaks to them so much how can stuff like this really be happening?

ya know what I mean? why didnt God inform them of it as well? and my experience isnt hit or miss or guess with the Lord as their "stuff" often is.

they may say it is another devil attackyeah ok.

whatever.

could be.

but

it reads with so much drama ... interesting really.

thing is elizabeth is putting this out for all to read... that is I HAVE TO SAY THIS and now decades later not so funny anymore.

but look for all that was around back in the day and time of when LYNN left twi IS HE NOT REAPING WHAT HE THEN SOWED?

bam !!!

[notinKansasanymore]

Wow. I just read those documents.

Where is Ted Patrick, now that we need him?

But I wish that anything about this situation were funny. I agree with Socks in that folks should stay far, far away.

Another thought is that even if Elizabeth has given her permission to have these documents posted, the first one, about the "prophetic" (my foot) things is hers alone to publish, and in my opinion stands for itself as a creepy, manipulative bunch of weirdness, sufficient to warn anyone with half a brain away from that group.

But the second document is very personal, and is as much John's as Elizabeth's, and in my opinion, shouldn't be made available without his permission, also.

It seems that their cult has a habit of writing public letters to one another, to air private grievances. That's just unseemly. It's no different than Craig ranting at the microphone.

Okay, I know that my previous post said that we should pray for them, if they're trying to do God's will. If this is what they consider the doing of God's will, however, I don't want any part of helping that continue. I had no idea that things had gotten that weird.

Made me think of the "God told me to tell you . . . to give me all your money" joke that Weirwille made in PFAL. He was making the point that God will speak to the individual. That makes sense to me.

Dang. All of this junk has got me quoting Weirwille. Now THAT ticks me off.

[pond]

Elizabeth wrote this letter to John, it reads like it was written as a warning not so much to John ( it reads like she wants the marriage to continue) but also to the whole stfi Karen Ann and etc..

It reads as if she WANTS it public tho. she is angry and hurt. im not saying she doesnt have reason, in the same sense of what John Lynn felt he had to do when he was FIRED from the way my gosh I do believe they did indeed they married their own selfs! no doubt how it could get ugly.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

...As I'm reading this post, I can only shake my head and wonder...are these people smoking crack?...

I posted earlier in this thread on how Mark G's wife used to be into S&M...this was NOT a joke! I heard it from her own lips at the one and only CES "fellowship" that I attended...this woman is "wacko" for sure...

after reading the post of her "dreams", I can only wonder if her repressed sexuality is not playing some role in this Stephen King nightmare...or maybe it's Dean Koontz....at any rate, you folks who are involved with this insanity need to nail your doors and windows shut, just in case "Elizabeth" tries to get in your house.

[edit by modcat5]

[pond]

The way i understand this is some in the circle of prophecy have dreams and then KA interpert them and who they are about?

dear dear... that is frightening . but this is a soap opera type thing with players and a long history of bad interaction .

[GarthP2000]

To all,

As regards the 'Christ-on-a-crutch' comment, okay, you're right. I apologize. I should have stated 'Give me a break!' or something else like that. Basically I was so flabbergasted by the garbage that is going on in CES, that that was what came out.

The rest of it tho, I make no apologies for. And even if they are 'trying to serve the Lord', that is no excuse for their controlling and abusive behavior. Hell, it has been my experience that those who claimed that they 'speak for God' are more likely to abuse and control people than not.

And I do find it rather amusing that David finds 'Christ-on-a-crutch' offensive, ... but not STFU. ;)

Edited December 17, 2006 by GarthP2000

[doojable]

I can only think of some lines from a song:

Who'll be my role model

Now that my role model is

Gone, gone

He ducked back down the alley

With some roly poly little bat-faced girl.

All alone, lone

there were incidents and accidents

there were hints and allegations...

Paul Simon.... "You Can Call Me Al"

[Billy D]

Billy D says "Personally, I praise God for ANYONE who works as Christ's ambassador, regardless of how they choose to do it." Really? So that they work as Christ's ambassadors justifies and sanctifies the abusive crap that they have been putting Elizabeth through? Hey, as long as they are doing it for God, right?

<_<

Garth,

As dmiller already pointed out, you clearly are taking my words out of context. For the record: I in no way condone the way that Elizabeth Lynn was treated. As with many people involved with STF, a lot of this is news to me - particularly the "prophetic input." When I say that I praise God for anyone who works as Christ's ambassador, I assume that they are living and treating people in accordance to Christ's command: to love. I do not consider what certain members of TWI and CES/STF did to be working as Christ's ambassadors - rather, if these allegations are true, it is clear to me that they are NOT working as Christ's ambassadors and are therefore not worthy of ANYONE'S praise! Anyone who treats someone in such an abusive manner is NOT doing the work of God. I will pray for them regardless, because Christ commands us to love and pray for our enemies as well as those who love us.

I said that I am personally involved in this situation - the "Rachel C" who was fired from STF is my wife. I will say that we are equally disgusted with what we have learned and experienced over the past few months. However, I repeat that I will not go into specifics here. If you want to know, private message me, or contact me directly if you know who I am.

Thanks!

BillyD

[Captain Crunch]

There are different amounts of culpability in what the CES/STF has done. Some have remained quiet for fear of reprisals, some believed it would be "gossip," still others participated ignorantly under the influence of the "Prophetess" and her "circle." But now that many are feeling open to taking another look because there is a board split over a firing, it seems a good time for those of us that have had contact with CES to repent for letting things slide and giving them the benefit of the doubt, and remaining silent.

When the dust settles, I hope there is still a CES/STF. This sort of stuff goes on in every organization. Even non-religious ones. They just use different means. But in a secular group the members have a say. CES is just like the Way in that the only ones that vote are the board. The rest of us just vote with our feet (by staying away).

I would like to see John S. firmly in control of the direction that is taken. I do believe he is the only one humble enough to repent in public. The Theisens maybe, also. But they are too far removed physically. And they obviously did not see what Karen Anne was doing. Because I believe if they had, they have good hearts and would have been outraged.

Regards,

Capt.

[rhino]

And I do find it rather amusing that David finds 'Christ-on-a-crutch' offensive, ... but not STFU. ;)

Well, first, nobody listens to me anyway, but I was more specific about the leader of the thang, you were rather broad about Christianity it seemed.

A few months ago I learned a woman I lived with for 6 months before leaving twi (1986) had committed suicide a while back ... I think she was in one of these offshoots ... these guys are playing with fire and I find any calls to pay them due respect rather ludicrous, maybe even dangerous. Dan and John strike me as smart guys that have something to offer, but how they can hang with this kinda crap befuddles me, especially after what groucho had to offer.

Some people that left twi were left vulnerable apparently ... so along come these pretenders to swoop them up ... or something like that. It's a jungle out there ...

[Captain Crunch]

PS - I realize there are many who have tried to confront them, but you were discounted. I understand, believe me.

[likeaneagle]

I agree Rhino. THese folks who are responsible for setting thier example of being great teachers and hold any leadership pastoral care over people better know, people will stake thier lives on it. I also know that have been scrutinized by the most critical and continue to teach what they know, but will not confess they hold the only truth...so sorry, to hear about your friend.

after leaving twi in 2000, i have visited several exway fellowships, and they are all different.

sometimes i listen.

Edited December 17, 2006 by likeaneagle

[Jeff USAF RET]

Hey folks!

The ex-Home Office manager of CES / Spirit & Truth here.

If anyone would like to contact John Schoenheit, here is his e-mail address.

john@stfonline.org

I have heard from some of the folks that are still on Staff that he is the next in line to be President.

Again, we will just have to wait and see what happens come Jan. 15. There is a lot of meetings going on right now and a lot of praying.

There are four Board members (John Schoenhiet, Gary & Karen Theisen, and Dan Gallagher) of Spirit & Truth that are very in tune that the prophetic is wayyyyyyyy out of balance. They are doing everything they can to get the ministry back on track.

The other Board members, Mark Graeser and Tom Resner, do not agree with them. Keep in mind that right now the Prophetic Council is currently made up of Tom Resner, Susan Resner (yes, his wife), and Karen Ann (Mark's wife). There was four other members that have left it. I was one of them.

That is why I can say first hand that the dreams are wayyyyy out of balance.......and have been used to run the ministry.

Again. I am confident things will get corrected and brought into balance. There is SOOO much good that Spirit & Truth / CES is (and has been) doing around the world. This is just very sad but I am confident that it will all work out for the best.

Again, if you need (or would like) more info about what is going on, please e-mail these folks:

John Schoenheit - john@stfonline.org

John Lynn - JALCES@aol.com

Dan Gallagher - Dan@stfonline.org

Sorry, I do not have permission to give out the other e-mails. If you want to contact the Theisen's, please e-mail any of the above and ask them to forward it to them.

Bless you folks!

Jeff

Edited December 17, 2006 by Jeff USAF RET

[ohbehave]

Hi all,

I can't seem to open CC's attachment. I have adobe 7.0. Is that the problem? Sure would like to read the attachment but can't get to it :(